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Question for all the anti-masons out there...

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posted on Nov, 4 2007 @ 12:45 AM
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For those that think the masons are running some sort of evil plot, why don't you just infiltrate the masons are report everything that goes on? Supposedly it is really easy to join the masons. You just have to show up, not be a complete mook, go to a couple meetings, pay a modest initiation fee, then you are in. You will then know all the secrets and be privy to anything that goes on in the meetings. You can then report here everything that happens here or in some other forum. You can also do so anonymously. You can also get others to do so, so the anti-mason movement just doesn't have one mole. In fact, you might rise up the ranks quickly be recruiting other moles as you will be seen as a leader who can increase the lodge's membership.

So why not infiltrate and report? You would be serving society if the masons really are going to ruin the whole world.



posted on Nov, 4 2007 @ 01:53 AM
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LMAO more likely than not they would join, see that there is nothing going on that they had expected to find, and leave.This whole ladder or pyramid illustration is asinine.Do you really think that George Washington,Benjamin Franklin, and other masonic founders of the United States set up a democratic government,with freedom of the press, freedom of religion,freedom to own and bear firearms, and scores of other freedoms some of which were unprescedented at the time, and some that still are today, just to some two hundred odd years later take them away?That they sit there scheming and saying, well now that the illusion of freedom has been cast, lets yank all of their rights away?You can't tell me that you honestly find that to be a valid scenario can you?

Feel free to join a lodge, just don't be too disappointed when you find that the only conspiracy being hatched there is how to better serve and improve your community.



posted on Nov, 4 2007 @ 05:17 AM
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I'll be waiting with baited breath for spirit7's breathless account of reptilian kitten-eaters in our midst.



posted on Nov, 4 2007 @ 05:19 AM
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Originally posted by brotherforchrist
LMAO more likely than not they would join, see that there is nothing going on that they had expected to find, and leave.This whole ladder or pyramid illustration is asinine.Do you really think that George Washington,Benjamin Franklin, and other masonic founders of the United States set up a democratic government,with freedom of the press, freedom of religion,freedom to own and bear firearms, and scores of other freedoms some of which were unprescedented at the time, and some that still are today, just to some two hundred odd years later take them away?That they sit there scheming and saying, well now that the illusion of freedom has been cast, lets yank all of their rights away?You can't tell me that you honestly find that to be a valid scenario can you?

Feel free to join a lodge, just don't be too disappointed when you find that the only conspiracy being hatched there is how to better serve and improve your community.


Dude, that's like, the longest sentence (highlighted in bold) EVAR!


Seriously though, why talk crap about the masons/freemasonry if you don't know what they do or what they're into?


[edit on 4-11-2007 by TheoOne]



posted on Nov, 4 2007 @ 10:07 AM
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Originally posted by brotherforchrist
LMAO more likely than not they would join, see that there is nothing going on that they had expected to find, and leave.

Feel free to join a lodge, just don't be too disappointed when you find that the only conspiracy being hatched there is how to better serve and improve your community.


EDIT: HYPOTHETICAL JOKE, DO NOT TAKE SERIOUSLY

First of all, how do you know this if you are not in the freemasons? Secondly, if you are how can we trust you? And finally, the freemasons may not be controlling us but they do have lots of secrets that we don't know, they have already admitted that.

I think that if we all join and find their not sinister:

1) Tell their secrets to the world.

2) Form a secret society within the freemasons of people who then take control of it and steer it in the right/wrong (lol) direction.

Or if they are:

1) Get police protection and then tell everyone.

2) Form a secret society within the freemasons of people who then take control of it and steer it in a less sinister and much cooler direction.

[edit on 4-11-2007 by SANTARII]

[edit on 4-11-2007 by SANTARII]

[edit on 4-11-2007 by SANTARII]



posted on Nov, 4 2007 @ 10:57 AM
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First of all I am an officer in my lodge.How do you know that you can trust me?How do I know that I can trust you?We live in a society where the burden of proof is upon the accuser not the accused.If you want to continue to hurl baseless accusations then that is your perogative, however there was not and is not one shred of proof to back up your claims.I think you should stop and examine the motives of people that attack Freemasonry and ask yourself the question, what does the interested party have to gain?

Is it fame?Is it book sales?Is it control of peoples thoughts?

How many liberators really want to be dictators?Every theory has its holes
When real life steps in. -Jello Biafra (frontman of Dead Kennedys)



posted on Nov, 4 2007 @ 11:40 AM
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reply to post by SANTARII
 


You may be surprised to know that many people have done the same thing you describe.. wouldn't be a new venture..

I joined believing in conspiracies to an extent .. had no idea what Masonry was exactly, kind of went in blind.. didn't even know a single person in my lodge.

That was just a year ago, and like BFC I am an officer in my lodge..

Soo .. going in conspiracy minded and coming out ingrained in the politics of Masonry.
You would think that you could take my word then? No?

You would have to be incredibly gullible to go into Masonry thinking they are taking over the world.. and once in for a while STILL believing that..




1) Tell their secrets to the world.


The rituals are in books.




2) Form a secret society within the freemasons of people who then take control of it and steer it in the right/wrong (lol) direction.


Oddly enough I saw something not to different from what you described .. if any of the Masons here at ATS want to know what I am talking about U2U me.. was pretty interesting.




1) Get police protection and then tell everyone.


I know brothers who have been pulled over and have gotten tickets.. do you think it goes something like this:

"Hello officer, something wrong?" *moves Masonic ring into noticeable area*
"Yes, caught you speeding."
"Thats ok, I am a Mason"
"Oh me to, have a nice night"



No where near all officers are Masons.




2) Form a secret society within the freemasons of people who then take control of it and steer it in a less sinister and much cooler direction.


What the hell does cooler mean? .. never heard that one before. Make Masonry "cooler" ..

And if your not a Mason how do you know we are headed in a sinister direction? .. Masons .. sinister?? .. the Grand Lodge won't even let us serve alcohol because so many Masons deem it sinister.

I think a little honest research would do you good...



posted on Nov, 4 2007 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by brotherforchrist
First of all I am an officer in my lodge.How do you know that you can trust me?How do I know that I can trust you?We live in a society where the burden of proof is upon the accuser not the accused.If you want to continue to hurl baseless accusations then that is your perogative, however there was not and is not one shred of proof to back up your claims.I think you should stop and examine the motives of people that attack Freemasonry and ask yourself the question, what does the interested party have to gain?

Is it fame?Is it book sales?Is it control of peoples thoughts?

How many liberators really want to be dictators?Every theory has its holes
When real life steps in. -Jello Biafra (frontman of Dead Kennedys)


I did not mean to accuse anyone of anything all my words were hypothetical. I don't believe that the freemasons are in anyway sinister or evil and I know they don't control the world. I would not join the freemasons for the sole reason of telling the world their secrets, which I know their secrets are hardly that special.

No one on these forums actually would want to infiltrate the masons (as far as i know) and no one really thinks they are evil.



posted on Nov, 4 2007 @ 02:59 PM
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To be honest, is it me or does it seem like people assume too quickly when they hear about the name of a secret society or something, that they're part of corruption when they might be not?


[edit on 4-11-2007 by TheoOne]



posted on Nov, 5 2007 @ 10:04 AM
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Heheh, I must admit I had the same idea at one time...

Then, I actually started researching it in earnest, and guess what?

I still ended up joining, though not as an "infiltrator," but duly and truly prepared and of my own volition.

No regrets.



posted on Nov, 5 2007 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by brotherforchrist
First of all I am an officer in my lodge.How do you know that you can trust me?How do I know that I can trust you?We live in a society where the burden of proof is upon the accuser not the accused.If you want to continue to hurl baseless accusations then that is your perogative, however there was not and is not one shred of proof to back up your claims.I think you should stop and examine the motives of people that attack Freemasonry and ask yourself the question, what does the interested party have to gain?

Is it fame?Is it book sales?Is it control of peoples thoughts?

How many liberators really want to be dictators?Every theory has its holes
When real life steps in. -Jello Biafra (frontman of Dead Kennedys)



This is coming from the man who said he was an "angel sent by god" with a "divine sword of flame," right? Your claim is absolutely right, and your questions are rhetorical ones for those with common sense. As a member of such a fraternity, you should handle yourself with a certain manner of "divinity" yourself with the outrageous claims. Other than that, I agree with you completely on the matter.



posted on Nov, 5 2007 @ 10:20 AM
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reply to post by The Axeman
 


Yeah, but you don't know that the 33 degree of the scottish right are building nuclear weapons with reptilians, who are hell bent on controlling the human plasma trade with the greys.


Got you, didn't they?



posted on Nov, 5 2007 @ 10:34 AM
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Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
Got you, didn't they?


Who?

I know plenty of Masons, most of whom are members of the Rite, some who are 33°. No evil-doers yet.


My point is this: It is foolish to hold strong opinions about things you do not understand. People constantly berate the Masons and accuse us collectively of being this-or-that, or doing this-or-that, when they have no *real* experience with any Masons at all. A lot of those who do know Masons will say that "yeah, they're good guys, but they're the exception, not the rule."



Give me a break.

I submit that before one attempts to "infiltrate" the lodge, they should read up on Masonic writings and Masonry in general. I'd be willing to bet that if they do, they will still join the lodge, but because they'll want to, not just to "infiltrate."

It happened to me.



posted on Nov, 5 2007 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by The Axeman
 


Those who believe in the conspiracy behind Freemasonry are completely off base. They say, "Secrets don't make friends," but either do lunatics that rant and rave about something they couldn't possibly know anything about, other than what has been "revealed" for the history channel and other documentaries. It's just the subsequent effects of a paranoid mind which lead down the slippery slope of believing everything you read on conspiracy websites.

People believe these things because they can't account for the evil of man and all the intricate reasons why men become so. They lay responsibility on those who do not deserve it, not out of spite, but out of sheer ignorance. Without Freemasonry, America wouldn't be as it is today, and that goes for most of Western Europe as well.

"Giving sight to the blind, the dumb are mostly intrigued by the drum."



posted on Nov, 5 2007 @ 11:13 AM
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Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
reply to post by The Axeman
 


Yeah, but you don't know that the 33 degree of the scottish right are building nuclear weapons with reptilians, who are hell bent on controlling the human plasma trade with the greys.


Got you, didn't they?


That's just a cover, really they're attempting to breed an army of turtle/kangaroo mutants to take over yemin and use it as a base of operations for replacing everyone's keys so that they never quite fit.

LOL



posted on Nov, 5 2007 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
Those who believe in the conspiracy behind Freemasonry are completely off base.


Agreed.



They say, "Secrets don't make friends," but either do lunatics that rant and rave about something they couldn't possibly know anything about, other than what has been "revealed" for the history channel and other documentaries.


The ones you have to look out for are tho ones that quote freemasonrywatch or theforbiddenknowledge or other such sites; Bill Shnoebelen on youtube or other nonsense like that. I've seen most of the History/Discovery Channel stuff, and it is more or less accurate. They touch on the conspiracy theories but don't say much about them. They tend to focus on what Masonry is or is not rather than the fanciful tales of the anti-Masons. Pretty much what I would expect from them. They don't demonize us, at least.

A really good one is Dan Burstein's "Secrets of Angels, Demons, and Masons," which is two parts. One is on the ideas/technologies presented in Dan Brown's "Angels and Demons," the other part is all about Masonry, and overall probably the best show I have seen on the topic. I rented it at Blockbuster, so, it's out there.


It's just the subsequent effects of a paranoid mind which lead down the slippery slope of believing everything you read on conspiracy websites.

People believe these things because they can't account for the evil of man and all the intricate reasons why men become so. They lay responsibility on those who do not deserve it, not out of spite, but out of sheer ignorance.


Again, agreed. One thing I will say about conspiracy theories: the good ones sound reasonable enough, and they depend on people buying in whole-hog. Most if not all conspiracy theories can be shown to be false without a tremendous amount of effort; it's just that people are too lazy or apathetic to look into it themselves. They believe what Joe Conspiracy says because it (sort of) fits, and it takes no effort.

"Why search for enlightenment when I can just sit here and be spoon-fed?" Such are the thoughts of sheep. "Truth" is irrelevant, so long as it's easy to swallow... and anything that places blame elsewhere is going to be easier to swallow than self-inventory and accountability.


Without Freemasonry, America wouldn't be as it is today, and that goes for most of Western Europe as well.


Quite.


One might add that while the system is not perfect, IMHO it would be WAY worse without the Masonic foundations, or cornerstone, if you will.


[edit on 11/5/07 by The Axeman]



posted on Nov, 5 2007 @ 11:39 AM
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Oh, there's a word we don't like to hear...

"Responsibility."


Crazy concept.


Al

posted on Nov, 8 2007 @ 06:12 PM
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My Acadeca coach is a Mason. He's a big history buff, and he likes to talk about Masons... allot. You can get him preoccupied for about a whole class period on Masonry (which people do). Nothing pretty secretive about it from what i hear from him. Though he does love conspiracy theories... sometimes he throws masons into it for the hell of it and goes, "you decide!"



posted on Nov, 9 2007 @ 06:33 AM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
Oddly enough I saw something not to different from what you described .. if any of the Masons here at ATS want to know what I am talking about U2U me.. was pretty interesting.

Interesting. I’d also be interested to know about this, although I’m not a mason.

Who was it? P2? Illuminati?



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