Is a police state the end result of capitalism??

We live in a world where the mighty dollar, or what ever currency you use is the most important thing. You don't matter you are insignificant if you stand in there way you will be chewed up by the machine.

The way of money is discipline, it's control, it has no feelings, the only thing that matters is the bottom line. Money leads to greed, greed leads to lust, lust leads to power.

So what say you?

If there is a new way would you be the first in line?

Our civilization is based on money, would a tribal system without money work better for us humans.

Are you happy working for the system? well are you?

There is some merit to the hypothesis of your thread title.

Business models and the stock market ensure that the most efficient and profitable companies dominate the market.

This limits the supply chain to only a few outlets. A few large companies who dictate selection and price.

This de-stabilizes the economy by essentially eliminating a free market. Or at least it has only the appearance of a free market.

Economic fears lead to social instability which then acts as a catalyst to other problems such as civil unrest and an up-tick in violence in general.

The reaction to this violence and unrest is to tighten up law enforcement and a surveillance, which could transition to martial law depending on the severity of the economic down-turn.

These are just loose, late night thoughts. Maybe other members could extrapilate further.

I certainly remember reading of the police beatings of the early 20th century unionizers. They were batoned like dogs. Big money talks and bloodied protesters to child labor, work rules walked, or crawled away. Nice to see the 'protect and serve' at work for the PTB, protecting the corporate America. Reagan saw to it the unions went belly up with the airport controllers in the 80's.

When we are paying 4 dollars for a loaf of bread and 6 dollars a gallon for gas, watch the countrywide Katrina unfold. Record foreclosures. Bank instability. Recession at our doorstep. We are being eaten by a rabid tapeworm.

I do find it interesting that you don't own your own body, yet your job can make you submit to drug/alcohol testing. The US supreme court always ruled any kind of drug/alcohol testing was unconstitutional until the eighties.

The more time goes by the laws and rules you must follow grow more and more intrusive.

Have you heard of the laws proposed about banning baggy pants or pants that expose underwear. Just how much is too much?

Corporations only care about bottom line profits. We live in a world where money is number one, money is the most important thing.

Prison building is a growth industry in the US even though we are at a 30-40 year low regarding violent[murder] crimes.

Look at what you must go through just to start a business in this country.

Not at all, if there's a new way i'll be at the back, covering your asses.

It's not the kind of job you'd like to give to someone you couldn't trust, after all - so either you yourself has to be at the back or someone you know personally.

I don't want to be at the front and all of a sudden the guy who is supposed to be rear-guarding starts hosing down his ammo on me.

reply to post by Throbber


Hey - I think you hit reply to the wrong thread. It happens.

I dont think there is a clear connection. If you look at communist China, you kind of have a police state going on there right now, and they have never been as capitalistic as the USA have been.

I think that just like with everything, there is a way for smart and evil people to control the masses that are good and just want to live their lives in peace.

The police state comes when the government feels it has the right to be above common citizens and stop seeing itself as a organ to serve the citizens.


[edit on 2-11-2007 by Copernicus]

Democracy is really a 2 part system, the form and the content. The form is basically the rules of the game, voting, laws, meetings, debate, etc. The content can be summed up by the equality within a society, what happens should benefit the majority and not the minority.

Capitalist propaganda states that Capitalism and Democracy go hand and hand (some of it goes as far as to say Democracy is a direct result of Capitalism), but this is not necessarily the case. Democracy is the result of social agitation and can take many economic forms, be it socialist, communists, anarchist, or capitalist.

The issue is when the political economy takes priority over the social needs of the people. When the accumulation of Capital (profit) outweighs the needs of the people (food, shelter, the right to a job, etc) then you are walking down a regressive road to fascism.

What im trying to say is, so long as democracy continues to keep capitalism in check, capitalism does not necessarily lead to police state fascism.

Thats not to say that Capitalists are not absolutly cozy with fascism and dictators. Quite the contrary, many thrid world nations suffering brutal fascistic oppression have capitalist economies. In fact, I will go as far to say that Capitalism functions the best under dictatorship or similar circumstances.

Originally posted by kosmicjack
reply to post by Throbber

 

Hey - I think you hit reply to the wrong thread. It happens.

Originally posted by LDragonFire

If there is a new way would you be the first in line?

?!?!

reply to post by InSpiteOf


Excellent post thanks for the reply.

Here is some history of a corporate state mentality.

The early twentieth century Italians, who invented the word fascism, also had a more descriptive term for the concept -- estato corporativo: the corporatist state. Unfortunately for Americans, we have come to equate fascism with its symptoms, not with its structure. The structure of fascism is corporatism, or the corporate state. The structure of fascism is the union, marriage, merger or fusion of corporate economic power with governmental power. Failing to understand fascism, as the consolidation of corporate economic and governmental power in the hands of a few, is to completely misunderstand what fascism is. It is the consolidation of this power that produces the demagogues and regimes we understand as fascist ones.

The governments serve the corporations, and the corporations serve the government, where does that leave you? We have become speed bumps on the road to a one would global police state, we are slaves to the system, even as this system is depleting our lives and natural resources.

While we Americans have been trained to keenly identify the opposite of fascism, i.e., government intrusion into and usurpation of private enterprise, we have not been trained to identify the usurpation of government by private enterprise. Our European cousins, on the other hand, having lived with Fascism in several European countries during the last century, know it when they see it, and looking over here, they are ringing the alarm bells. We need to learn how to recognize Fascism now.
It's the Corporate State, Stupid

This would require a wake up call to all American’s, but I don’t think most are listening. Apathy will doom us all in this country.

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism. From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

2. Disdain for the importance of human rights. The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause. The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame forfailures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and“terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.

4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism. Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.

5. Rampant sexism. Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.

6. A controlled mass media. Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes’ excesses.
7. Obsession with national security. Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting “national security,” and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.
Fascism Anyone? 14 steps to Fascism

*continued*

This is here and now, like a blue print layed out and followed to a T. My questions are is what do we do about it? Is it too late to do anything?

8. Religion and ruling elite tied together. Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the “godless.” A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.

9. Power of corporations protected. Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens.

10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated. Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.

11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts. Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.

12. Obsession with crime and punishment. Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. “Normal” and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or “traitors” was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.

13. Rampant cronyism and corruption. Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.

14. Fraudulent elections. Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating an disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite.
Fascism Anyone? 14 steps to Fascism

Read it and weep people, we are well on our way.


[edit on 2-11-2007 by LDragonFire]

While considering the thread title, consider this:

Veritas Capital owns Dyncorp/CSC

Dyncorp owns Pearson/MacGraw Hill (largest publisher of textbooks)

Dyncorp is a private security company with billions in government contracts from everything to Airforce Computer upgrades (missing nukes) to making Anthrax for the Army (envelopes to senators).

Dyncorp also holds the contract for Plan Columbia (Iran/Contra)

(All of the above contracts are paid for by our tax dollars)

Pearson publishes a set of books entitled STEP. I believe it stands for Sytematic Training for Effective Parenting. It is the same class that Hitler was teaching in Germany to give control to the government. (do a search for Adler)

These STEP classes are court ordered to be attended by persons with cases in Juvenile and Domestic court. The court pays for the classes (our tax dollars).

STEP undermines the authority of the parents and stresses the authority of government/society. Which in turn causes the children to become out of control (because they see through the court systems that their parents have NO AUTHORITY over them).

This creates a society of young people who are out of control. How do you control a society? Police state.

Who will the officers be? Dyncorp employees. Dyncorp already holds the contracts for hiring many local police officers.

So, the answer to the question is yes.

We have already paid for the police state through our tax dollars. The taxes taken from our pay checks by the same companies (employers) that are getting the tax dollars from the government (in the form of government contracts) to enslave all of us.

The only way to break the chain is to quit your job, become self-employed and refuse to pay individual income taxes (being that they are unconstitutional anyway).

reply to post by LDragonFire


No problem man, im no Marxist, but his evaluations and predictions for the future of Capitalism was pretty damn acurate.

It is indeed a scary time for us in the west (us Canadian brothers feel the push to fascism too) Whats worse is once again, fascism may be at the reigns of the most powerful military machine on the planet.

Popular agitation is the only thing that can stop this regression from democracy to fascim, and I fear it wont come untill its too late.

APOLOGIES TO THROBBER!

That being said, FYI on these threads right here, you might find them provocative:

The Republic Is Dead:
www.abovetopsecret.com...


Scary Surveillance and Synthetic Environments:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Capitalism is an economic system, a police state would be a social system. So do different parts of what make up a society change or affect other parts? Oh, by the way. We do not have a free-market, we live in a mixed economy which allows the government to subsidize certain industries or bail out the economy. If capitalism were to lead toward a prison state it would probably not be along the Stalinist sense, but most likely in some kind of form where the largest corporations controlled the government and those corporations could decide what we should eat, drink, where, and think.

Originally posted by wizard135
Capitalism is an economic system, a police state would be a social system. So do different parts of what make up a society change or affect other parts? Oh, by the way. We do not have a free-market, we live in a mixed economy which allows the government to subsidize certain industries or bail out the economy. If capitalism were to lead toward a prison state it would probably not be along the Stalinist sense, but most likely in some kind of form where the largest corporations controlled the government and those corporations could decide what we should eat, drink, where, and think.

Yes I 100% agree. Just like what is occurring in the USA, laws about seatbelt' s, anti- smoking laws, laws banning trans fat, free speech zones, laws banning baggy pants,that expose the underwear and the list will continue to grow. One system does effect the other system, we are living in a huge experiment, on social population control. They are lying to us, remember how according to them, what a wonderful job they were doing in Iraq and New Orleans[katrina] Just a few example there.

It's not threatening, It's already here!!!!!

So how do we change, or has it always been this way?

[edit on 2-11-2007 by LDragonFire]

No, just un JFK like presidential dynasties might help.

LBJ and Nixon were just paid by the 'family'.

Eisenhower saw Hitler, the most successful IllumiNazi puppet,
had a heart attack that put Nixon in power but Ike managed to
tell us abut the MIC.


9/11 is just controlled terror.

A-Lee-Ann terror has been replaced by AL-K-DUH terror,
both a creation of the terror government.

UFOs are an electrical design stolen from Tesla.
The CFR/TC own these devices.
If the FOO is true, Tesla must sue.
But was killed.

Read it and weep in the research of Lyne.

If conspiracy theory is not to your liking, carry on.

I think the old and time tested bartering system worked quite well.......I give you a pig, and you give me a _________________? (Insert whatever).

Im sure in time we'll be back to that system

reply to post by LDragonFire

I agree with you 100%. But then, I was reading Orwell by 14. Yep, if there was another way - of course, why not? Is this system working? Errmm...nope.

The tighter resources get - the worse things will be. Simple supply & demand. And no points for guessing who will be getting the supplies...it won't be most of us any how.

J.