NEEDED: everyones theories, beliefs, facts on the bible...post here

reply to post by eagle32

Therefor as an atheist/agnostic (I dont know which it is and I prefer not to be labeled).

Hi/
Atheist......A theos?
Without a God, no God.

Agnostic....A Gnostos?
Unknown, a stranger.

I know you said 'I prefer not to be labelled' .....thats ok, You now have the meanings of Both words.


helen

reply to post by tikcufan74

tell that to the black man!

Originally posted by tikcufan74
52 of the 55 signers of the declaration of Independence were orthodox Christians? the other 3 were firm believers in the bible as well

Patric Henry - one of the founding fathers famous quote... if you can find it in the history books... GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH he said... "an appeal to arms and the GOD of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just GOD that presides over the "destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or so sweet as to be purchased at the prices of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty GOD. I know not course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death." The speech given March 23, 1775, St. John's Church, Richmond, Virginia, credited with having swung the balance in convincing the Virginia House of Burgesses to pass a resolution delivering the Virginia troops to the Revolutionary War. In attendance were Thomas Jefferson and George Washington. Reportedly, the crowd, upon hearing the speech, jumped up and shouted , "To Arms! To Arms!"

in 1776 Patric Henry... "it cannot be emphasized to strongly or to often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians; not on religion, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For that reason alone, people of other faiths have been afforded the freedom of worship here."

George Washington
"it is impossible to govern the world without God and the bible. Of all the dispositions and habits that lead to political prosperity, our religion and morality are the indispensable supporters. Let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that out national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle."

in 1782 the US congress voted this resolution
The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools."

did you know that harvard was founded by Christian and for a 100 years 50 percent of its graduates were pastors...

1963 the supreme court decided to take the bible out of the school. the justification... if portions of the NT were read without explanation, the could be and have been, psychologically harmful to children." "if the posted copies of the 10 commandments were to have any effect at all, it would be to introduce school children to read them. And if they read them, meditated upon them, and perhaps venerated and observed them, this is not a permissible objective."

"don't interfere with anything in the constitution. that must be maintained. for it is the only safeguards for our liberties." Pres. Abraham Lincoln.

"the New Testament is the very best book that ever was or ever will be known in the world" - Charles Dickens

"a thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" Pres. Theodore Roosevelt.

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" Edmund Burke

"freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the US where men were free." Pres. Ronald Reagan

"a nation which does not remember what is was yesterday, does not know what it is today, nor what it is trying to do. We are trying to do a futile thing if we do not know here we came from or what we have been about. The Bible is the one supreme source of the revelation of the meaning of life, the nature of GOD and spiritual nature and needs of men. It is the only guide of life, which really leads the spirit in the way of peace and salvation. America was born a Christian nation. America was born to exemplify that devotion to the elements of righteousness which are derived from the revelation of HOLY SCRIPTURES. - Pres Woodrow Wilson.

Emanresui,

Slavery was also known to the white man at that time..The forgotten slaves

"The indentured servants who served a tidy little period of 4 to 7 years polishing the master's silver and china and then taking their place in colonial high society, were a minuscule fraction of the great unsung hundreds of thousands of White slaves who were worked to death in this country from the early l7th century onward.

Up to one-half of all the arrivals in the American colonies were Whites slaves and they were America's first slaves. These Whites were slaves for life, long before Blacks ever were. This slavery was even hereditary. White children born to White slaves were enslaved too."

History revised!!!!

Even today there is human trafficking!!!! Women and children abducted from Moldova and other places to be slaves.





[edit on 7-1-2008 by Clearskies]

Here is a scriptural reference which is good to use as a weathering of Christ Jesus throughout time: It is in reference to all the Messiahs or, Christs, that had arisen over time and was used as a wise validation as to if this particular Christ (Jesus) would withstand the test: The statement comes from a Jewish, Non-Believer, Gamaliel.

Acts 5:34-39
34 Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space; 35 And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men. 36 For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed F10 him, were scattered, and brought to nought. 37 After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed F11 him, were dispersed. 38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: 39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

Bottom line, time has passed, centuries since, and even still, Jesus Christ has endured and so has His followers.

reply to post by Clearskies

twice as much reason to be skeptical now, wouldn't you agree?

To answer, a question, from the page before this.

I believe and teach, as well as support the Scriptures for America, over all understanding, which is HIS STORY = History, one and the same.
His Story, God, JESUS the God of Jacob.

As for this thread's subject, I stayed to it !

Remember what is written.

But first there must be a falling away, and so here we are..

Do you see it?

Glory to God, Jesus the only name given, to men on Earth ( Acts 4:12 )

Oh, i just wanted to say, that the last two posts, before this one, were very good.

Goodnight..

Sorry if this does not belong here, cant think of any were else to put it.
I have a theory that god and the devil are playing good cop bad cop. That’s the best way I can descried a question I have. Ok a question popped back into my head to day one. I that I had as a child. Despite asking, I never got an answer s. I thought I would ask it here. May be is a silly question but all options welcome. I like many others were taught that if you do wrong against god you would go to hell and the devil would punish you. My question is why would the devil punish you for offending his worst enemy? Wouldn’t he give us a part on the back?

Religions seem to serve a dual/mirrow purpose.

1) to control with lies and fear
2) to educate with truths and morals
seems like a contradiction in terms yet the
logical inversion.
there are many truths in religions but in order to see them one must
put themselves in the right frame of mind (point on reference).

to see it for what it really is and not for what we are told that it is...
use your own heart...not the one they tell you to use , but yours

you and god and us and all is the same thing....

then you no longer have the chains of religion to fear.
from what I can make of our history it would seem that religion is responsible for most of the worlds death and war.
that alone should tell us all something.

twice as much reason to be skeptical now, wouldn't you agree?

I don't understand what you mean by that.
Skeptical of what???

Skeptical of humans? Given most people, yes, but, Jesus gives me the strength and fortitude to give most people the benefit of doubt.

Even the worst wretches of mankind can be swayed to goodness through prayer and good works.

Originally posted by iammonkey
I like many others were taught that if you do wrong against god you would go to hell and the devil would punish you. My question is why would the devil punish you for offending his worst enemy? Wouldn’t he give us a part on the back?

It's actually a common misconception. For some reason, many believe Satan will rule in Hell like God rules in Heaven. But we are told Hell is a place of punishment for Satan as well as his fallen angels. He's not in charge down there, so to speak, but will be imprisoned there when all is said and done. We are told he is the "ruler of this age" but don't expect him to be handing out an "Atta boy!" to anyone. Since he is mentioned as a deceiver and liar, many believe it is his goal to take as many with him as he can since he knows his punishment in inescapable. This might sound like nonsense to unbelievers but for those that truly know, they're aware of what is actually going on.

Here is a little something to think upon..

This is from "The Book of Wisdom"

There are 19 chapters and this quote is from Chapter 3.

Chapter 3

3:1 But the souls of the righteous are in the hand of God, and there shall no torment touch them. 2 In the sight of the unwise they seemed to die: and their departure is taken for misery, 3 And their going from us to be utter destruction: but they are in peace. 4 For though they be punished in the sight of men, yet is their hope full of immortality.



5 And having been a little chastised, they shall be greatly rewarded: for God proved them, and found them worthy for himself. 6 As gold in the furnace hath he tried them, and received them as a burnt offering.



7 And in the time of their visitation they shall shine, and run to and fro like sparks among the stubble. 8 They shall judge the nations, and have dominion over the people, and their Lord shall reign for ever. 9 They that put their trust in him shall understand the truth: and such as be faithful in love shall abide with him: for grace and mercy is to his saints, and he hath care for his elect. 10 But the ungodly shall be punished according to their own imaginations, which have neglected the righteous, and forsaken the Lord.

11 For whoso despiseth wisdom and nurture, he is miserable, and their hope is vain, their labours unfruitful, and their works unprofitable: 12 Their wives are foolish, and their children wicked:

13 Their offspring is cursed. Wherefore blessed is the barren that is undefiled, which hath not known the sinful bed: she shall have fruit in the visitation of souls.

14 And blessed is the eunuch, which with his hands hath wrought no iniquity, nor imagined wicked things against God: for unto him shall be given the special gift of faith, and an inheritance in the temple of the Lord more acceptable to his mind. 15 For glorious is the fruit of good labours: and the root of wisdom shall never fall away.

16 As for the children of adulterers, they shall not come to their perfection, and the seed of an unrighteous bed shall be rooted out. 17 For though they live long, yet shall they be nothing regarded: and their last age shall be without honour. 18 Or, if they die quickly, they have no hope, neither comfort in the day of trial. 19 For horrible is the end of the unrighteous generation.

reply to post by defcon5


Hi defcon5/

Great research...If only others could see this!
Many people today do not read the early Fathers of the church....it is there that one will truly find, the absolute 'meaning' as to what Scripture really says.

helen

Edit.....added quotes///

Apostle Paul says: How shall they preach, except they be sent? (Rom. 10:15). Accordingly, the bishops are the lawful successors to the Apostles and those sent for the preaching (κήρυγμα) to the people.
Are all apostles?
Are all prophets?
Are all teachers? (1 Cor. 12:29)
Again he says to Timothy that the clergy must be apt to teach others (1 Tim. 3:2).
However, the same is not said of the faithful.
He makes a distinction between shepherd and sheep,
between teacher and those taught.....
In Scripture there's the eunuch of Candace, Queen of the Ethiopians?
He was reading the Prophet Isaiah when the Apostle Philip asked him if he understood that which he read,
to which he replied: How can I, except some man should guide me? (Acts 8:31).

You realize also that the word unction, or anointing (χρίσμα) that you mentioned above means the effusion of the Holy Spirit in the Mystery of Holy Chrism, directly after Baptism (Acts 8:17).

orrologion.blogspot.com...On Holy Scripture and On Holy tradition'By Elder

[edit on 1/15/2008 by helen670]

This is a great post. I have struggled with my beliefs over the last few years, and have come to a sort of realization that Christianity is more fiction than fact. I was raised in Alabama, where the preachers spend way too much time covering the evils of man and the eternal damnation of sinners. I have a hard time seeing how Adam and Eve and Noah's Ark could even be considered as realistic.

I look at it like this...People have believed in many gods over many thousands of years. These people have fought and died for their beliefs. Now, take a look at how many of these religions have disappeared. Flash forward another two thousand years...Christianity may not exist. For all we know, people may end up worshipping the sun again as the bringer of life.

I also have issues with the content of the Bible. There is just too much of the Bible that could possibly just be part of some wild epic story and nothing more. Giants, monsters, angels, demons, love, hate, death, life, and much more all within the borders of creation and the end of days. Sounds like an awesome movie. As stated before, the book has been changed, edited, and twisted to conform to the needs of religious and political figureheads over a 1700 year period. Religion has been used as justification for numerous wars and millions of murders.

Another interesting thing is the pros and cons of life after death in the Christian world. Hell is the eternal torment and pain that cast upon sinners. This is supposedly what happens when you disobey or haven't joined the club. This was also the same fate that awaited all non-believers, regardless of the life they led??? Heaven sounds like the greatest incentive for living that nice controlled, clean life. I can hear the pitch now; "Do as I say, come here at least twice a week and give 10% of all of your money to us and you can come with. You get to see all of the people who have passed before you and all knowledge will then be yours. You will never have another desire when you get there, just let me dip you in the water and wash away all that sin. There you go. Did I mention it has ivory walls with gold trim, seven towers, and pearl gates?" If that is all it takes to get the ultimate prize, then why is there so much corruption among mankind?

That leads me to prayer. You can pray all you want for the betterment of all people, and we get squat in return. Prayers haven't seemed to do much in the way of disease, poverty, perversion, deceit, violence and numerous other things that ruin our lives.

On the other side, I see all of the real, solid evidence that science provides us about life. Evolution, astronomy, fossil records, DNA, physics, math and many other things reduce many religious claims to mere fable.

Many Christians try to live the good life, and I will not discredit them for that. What drives me nuts is the general hipocracy among the regular churchgoers. Just one last "why", and that's it. Why are there so many twisted preachers out there? Granted, most of the Christian ministers are good and well meaning people, but there are too many out there for the wrong reason. (Have you ever noticed that most of the more popular Evangelist types drive Cadillacs, Jaguars, Lexus, and the occasional Bentley or Rolls? How fitting for a humble man of God...)


I guess I just have a hard time with it all in general. It's too much. I just try to be good to others. Isn't that basically the bottom line of almost every modern religious practice? I wonder why people can't do just that.

reply to post by AshleyD

Numbers are used repeatedly in the Bible and have underlying spiritual
significance. Even though I can see how one author could have been
smart enough to have written the Bible using this system, I have a hard
time believing they all purposely did this- especially while having the
numbers represent the same spiritual meanings.

I'm sorry. I don't know which numbers you are referring to.

I am completely agnostic about that G-word. I really have a hard time
being so arrogant as to say I know anything about him. (and when I say
him I am personificating whatever that power may be)

"Out of curiosity, how do you think the universe, earth, and life came
into being?"

Again, I am agnostic. There has not been enough information/ evidence
to create a perfect image on the beginning of time. Though, I lean
toward evolution on the matter of the creation of plants and animals due to the evidence.
Though I don't see evolution as the creator of consciousness of human beings. But I have heard the phrase "we are all co-creators" which makes some sense to me. Yet, again, I am agnostic towards that as well. As far as the planets and space/time itself, I would like to believe there HAD to be something that was there before the first quarks lit the spark. I mean
what created the atom, right?

"Evolution makes too many false conclusions and someone had to create
the aliens"

Agreed.

"Because we were the pinnacle of His creation designed for fellowship
with Him. Even the angels were to fulfill "servant" roles why humans
were for fellowship."

I'm sorry but this is just silly. Why would 'God' need arms, legs,eyes, ears and genitalia? This makes no sense to me what-so-ever. If you think about the human body, what do you think it is meant for? It is meant to cater to our selfish needs. An arm. What does it do? It extends the hand so the hand can bring food to the mouth. Correct? That act of
bringing something to ones self is in itself selfish by nature. I am
using the word "selfish" because I can not think of another word to
explain what I am thinking. But why would 'God' need to bring a food
to his mouth? So, does God have a head? Does he have a brain? If he
does can he be killed? This in itself makes no sense. I am sorry, but
I can not understand this thinking.

"Six billion people stemming from two is a lot easier to believe that
six billion people stemming from inorganic matter floating around the
universe. But don't forget it was actually more than two. All people
alive today are believed to be descendants of Noah and his descendants
(eight people total)."

This is an odd statement. Do you truly believe 6 billion people stem
from 8 people? You seem like a very intelligent person, and I am not
trying to attack that intelligence but sometimes you just have to think
for yourself and not what a book tells you. You are probably much
older than I and better educated, but do you really think we stemmed
from 8 people? First, that goes against what the Bible says. Incest!
Correct? Or am I missing something? I will concede here though. There
may very well have been a garden of Eden, and perhaps even an Adam and Eve. But then, how do you get different races of people? There are
black, white, indian, oriental and so on. This again, makes no sense.
Now, again I really have no idea how the beginning of man came to be,
but I am not going to believe we stemmed from 8 people (which
originaly stemmed from 2, according to the Bible). For all I know, we
could have been placed here by a whole other intelligent life form from
a different galaxy!?

to fix quotation


[edit on 9/16/07 by abelievingskeptic]

reply to post by AshleyD


"This is completely unscriptual and is false Catholic dogma. I can
think of two specific examples off the top of my head that explicitly
state children who die before the age of accountability go to Heaven.
One is David's son and the other is Paul alluding to "default childhood
salvation." So we have at least one example refuting their false
doctrine from each testament."

Yes, but the Catholic church and the Pope is looked at as the head of
the Christian religion. There influence is pretty strong amongst all
the different churches. That is why I brought it up. Most people do
not even think to question the church.

"Because God made a covenant with Abraham and He never breaks covenant. But it is not that they get special treatment. They are actually in a judgement period currently called "the age of the Gentiles." But this
is coming to a close precisely as God promised in the prophecies
concerning the return of Jews to Israel as a sovereign united state and
Jerusalem in the end times."

OK. Why did God make a covenant with Abraham specifically? And you do realise that the Jews were PLACED in Palestine AFTER WWII by the United Stated and Britain? If this is prophiciesed, then wouldn't it be
obvious that the people who signed the Document (allowing the Jews to
steal land that was not theirs) knew exactly what they were doing? I'm
sure they knew exactly what they were doing. Therefore, they knowingly
fullfilled that "prophecy". The prophecy was not miraculously
fullfilled.

And in knowing that, it comes to mind to question the
exact intent of the start of the war. I have read many claims of
Rothschild money in the hands of the NAzis. As well as American
dollars coming from a business that Bushs' grand father was on the
board of directors. Interesting indeed. Also, there is a lot of information
out there with connections to ancient Egyption Hebrew Kings that have
stayed in power to this day. I don't know if all of it is true, but it
certainly makes sense.

"Why does the "holy land" belong to the Jews (which in itself is a
paradox)?"

The Bible says do not kill, etc., etc. The Semites CONQUERED Canaan.
Slaying thousands, if not millions of innocent women, children and
babies. (not saying they are any worse than any other ancient people.
That is what they did to ensure victory and survival) Interesting that
'God' decides to give the Semites the most furtile land in the middle
east. And what exactly is a semite? (I know they are the original 12
tribes) It surely is not a race. There is no Jewish race. Why could
they not just convert the people living in this land? Or at least try
to convert these people first? Instead, They go in and conquer and
slaughter all these people by the hand of 'God'. I sure do not want to
be part of any God that is that brutal. Is this 'God' we are talking about? I don't understand how anyone would want to be part of that? It just boggles my mind.

"Again, to me this points to a common origin as taught by the Bible.
Although critics like to use the Epic of Gilgamesh to cast doubt on the
Genesis account, the existence of flood stories are told in almost all
cultures all over the globe. To me it sounds like the truth later
became distorted again."

Agreed. Except the bible is one of those distortions as the Epic of
Gilgamesh was written long in advance of the Bible.

"1) It was not plagiarized."

There are MANY, MANY accountings all throughout the religions of the
world that share stories and timelines with those of Jesus. I believe
Jesus existed. In fact probably many of them. Even today you can go
to Mexico and find quite a few of them. But whoever that Jesus was,
was probably a MAN of great conviction. Possibly a great prophet. I
can't say.

reply to post by AshleyD


I was not there. And I do not know anyone that was either.

"That's the only way to do it. We can't enter this subject with
presupposed ideas. It only works when you weigh the evidence
collectively."

Again mam. Agreed! I would be more than happy to go back to what I
believed as a child. It would make things much easier, that is for
sure! All the answers in one little, well not so little, book.

But there are a whole mess of other things I could go on about..hell,
heaven, Jesus and especially the creation story. Look, maybe there is
something to it other than some Zionist agenda (which I truly hope
there is not some Zionist agenda). But the evidence seems to be
overwhelming, unfortunately. One thing I want to point out here is
that I am not against anyone believeing anything. In my opinion, if you
need a Bible to guide you and give you a moral standard then fine. It
is better than living to harm or take advantage of another. And before I get labeled an enti-semite or whatever I can honestly say I look at everyone as equal to myself. Neither less nor greater. That includes the pope, Jews, black people, or Buddhist monks etc.. However, I do recognize superior intelligences and disciplines in other people and give them their deserved respect. But not just for the fact of being any religion or race.

Phew!, I never posted something so long before...

Hope it explained my stance.

Oh. sorry about the thing 2 posts above. I have no idea what I did.

Originally posted by abelievingskeptic
I'm sorry. I don't know which numbers you are referring to.

Numbers are used repeatedly throughout the Bible and each has a spiritual meaning. For instance, 40 is the number for testing, 10 is the number for law and human government, 12 is the number for God's people, 6 is the number of man, 7 is the number for divine perfection, etc.

I have a hard time believing the dozens of authors over the centuries knew this system (and some even writing books at the same time unaware of each other) all had knowledge of what others were doing. Once you examine the text, 10 is always shown in relation to government, 7 is always shown in relation to divine perfection, 12 is always shown in relation to God's people, etc. Just one of the many pieces of evidence I took into consideration before becoming a Christian. The foreshadowing of the laws, rituals, and feasts in relation to Jesus also blows my mind.

I'm sorry but this is just silly. Why would 'God' need arms, legs,eyes, ears and genitalia? This makes no sense to me what-so-ever. If you think about the human body, what do you think it is meant for? It is meant to cater to our selfish needs. An arm. What does it do? It extends the hand so the hand can bring food to the mouth...

Remember, no one has ever seen God in His divine form. So, this is only speculation on my part. I do not believe God has genitalia as I do not believe He is either gender physically. He has a mouth because He talks and there is food in Heaven (for enjoyment- not survival), arms to hold us in Heaven, eyes to see, etc. He probably doesn't have a digestive system, though. Maybe not even internal organs. Again, just speculation on my part. It's not like God is a big blob or light beam just because He doesn't need anything else.

But the "in His image" is actually a rather unique description, though, compared to so many other religions that saw their gods in a variety of shapes including animals, animal-human hybrids, and even abstract shapes or like orbs. God says He looks like us.

If he does can he be killed?

No. 100% Immortal and infinite. No beginning, no end. He is not governed by the rules of this material realm where everything has beginnings and ends. He is in the spiritual realm. This dimension is not His primary dimension.

This in itself makes no sense. I am sorry, but I can not understand this thinking.

No worries. This might help, might not. But click here for something along the lines (although it is more about the infinite existence of God) for a comment I left another poster.

This is an odd statement. Do you truly believe 6 billion people stem
from 8 people? You seem like a very intelligent person, and I am not
trying to attack that intelligence but sometimes you just have to think
for yourself and not what a book tells you.

Yes I do. But remember, evolution has traced all six billion people back to two through mitochondrial DNA and chromosomes in what their science has deemed "Mitochondrial Eve" and "Y Chromosomal Adam." Every human alive today (all six billion of us) has these folks as a common ancestor according to evolution. Although they say it is not evidence of a bottleneck and that they lived at separate times, I always found that tidbit interesting.

And I hate to use this study because I myself am not sure but a creation scientist did some calculations of the human population growth rate starting at the time Noah's flood was believed to have occurred according to the Bible. The results of the expected human population up to our time differed only by a few million.

A question I asked on another thread is if humans have been around for hundreds of thousands of years and no mega disasters were believed to have happened as secular science admits, where is everyone? Why don't we have trillions of people around by now? The human population doesn't add up in my mind. I'm not a YEC necessarily so it is a question I cannot ignore.

You are probably much older than I and better educated

Nope. In my 20's and kicked out of two colleges for bad behavior. lol But even if I was 80 and had three PhD's, please don't ever be scared to ask me questions.

First, that goes against what the Bible says. Incest!
Correct? Or am I missing something?

The Hebrew Law had not yet been created so incest was not forbidden. Also, the effects of sin and the fall had not taken a complete toll on our bodies (things did not start to decline heavily until after the flood) so it was not taboo nor would it have caused birth defects. But essentially, Noah's grandchildren would have been mating with their cousins and not necessarily siblings. Sounds sick to us but again, no law and no harmful genetic effects at this point. It wasn't a social or legal taboo.

But then, how do you get different races of people? There are
black, white, indian, oriental and so on. This again, makes no sense.

Although it is vague, the Bible does reference some genetic mutations as well as genetic degeneration. However, differing races were simply traits passed through genes and environmental adaptation that I believe He designed us with. It would be like asking why do some people have big noses, thin hips, and wavy hair. Genetic traits. It says He also tends to His creation- He didn't just create us and then let us be. I think He maintains us and created us to adapt. To me it screams intelligent design and not merely random natural selection.

Now, again I really have no idea how the beginning of man came to be, but I am not going to believe we stemmed from 8 people (which
originaly stemmed from 2, according to the Bible). For all I know, we
could have been placed here by a whole other intelligent life form from
a different galaxy!?

Then who made the aliens? All it does is shift the problem of the existence of one set of finite beings onto other finite beings. How did the original finite being come to be? And if you want to know "then who made God," just check out the link I put earlier in this comment. I hope I have been of some help. I'm getting tired and I know this reply isn't up to par.

Originally posted by abelievingskeptic
Yes, but the Catholic church and the Pope is looked at as the head of
the Christian religion. There influence is pretty strong amongst all
the different churches. That is why I brought it up. Most people do
not even think to question the church.

No! LOL! It's a common misconception. The pope is head of the Catholic church- not Christianity. There are over one billion Christians not associated with Catholicism, the pope, or Vatican. Including myself. We pay them hardly any attention.

OK. Why did God make a covenant with Abraham specifically?

Because even though we started out as one true religion, paganism started to seep back in after the flood. Abraham and his clan were some of the last righteous people still adhering to God. There's some other reasons, too, but my memory is going since it is so late at night.

And you do realise that the Jews were PLACED in Palestine AFTER WWII by the United Stated and Britain? If this is prophiciesed, then wouldn't it be obvious that the people who signed the Document (allowing the Jews to steal land that was not theirs) knew exactly what they were doing?

If my memory serves me correctly, Palestine was not a sovereign state like America, England, etc. It was international territory under the control of Turkey and Britian. Not an independant country known as Palestine. The Jews, through the Balfour Declaration, were granted the land in 1917 after a Jewish Scientist sold some of his research to the British government. Instead of asking for monetary compensation, he asked if the international territory could be returned to the Jews after it was taken by the Romans previously.

I'm very pro-Jewish so you can say I'm biased but if Israel needs to give the land back after obtaining it through treaties, land purchases, international agreements, and battles, then we as Americans need to pack up our bags and head back to Europe, Asia, and Africa and give the land back to the Natives because we, too, obtained America through treaties, land purchases, international agreements, and battles.

I'm sure they knew exactly what they were doing. Therefore, they knowingly fullfilled that "prophecy". The prophecy was not miraculously fullfilled.

Not quite. That was only one piece of the puzzle. They also had to be surrounded by a specific coalition of enemies given by name in the Bible. The only nation left to switch to complete this coalition is Turkey. And it appears imminent to us prophecy watchers. They could not control this. They could not have controlled the British acceptance of giving Palestine to the Jews. Remember, the agreement was also reneged on by the British after this and only later given back to the Jews after WWII. It was back and forth back and forth. But my favorite: Israel also had to be declared a nation in one day (it was) and the return of Israel as a sovereign nation was prophesied in the Bible to the very year, 1948. This happened and is also something they could not control.

The Bible says do not kill, etc., etc. The Semites CONQUERED Canaan.

If my memory serves me correctly, the Canaanites were not loving little families like you and I are today who just want to live, love, and be happy. They were recorded to be cannibals, committed child and human sacrifice, often attacked the Jews in their current land to take prisoners back as slaves, etc. It sounds vicious to us and I wish I could give you a happier explanation but that is what it tells us. It was war.

And what exactly is a semite? (I know they are the original 12
tribes) It surely is not a race.

Semites are the descendants of Noah's son, Shem. Shemites -> Semites.

Why could they not just convert the people living in this land? Or at least try to convert these people first? Instead, They go in and conquer and slaughter all these people by the hand of 'God'.

I think they did. I also think they tried to make peace treaties with them but the violence kept getting worse. Again, I'm going strictly from memory and am too tired to break out my Bible and look everything up. lol I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

Except the bible is one of those distortions as the Epic of
Gilgamesh was written long in advance of the Bible.

Yes and no. lol Some believe the Genesis account was passed along orally for centuries until finally being penned by Moses. Others believe it was divinely dictated to Moses. I'm not even opening up this can tonight. lol

There are MANY, MANY accountings all throughout the religions of the world that share stories and timelines with those of Jesus.

Are you talking about the Pagan copycat myth? Like the story of Jesus being taken from the stories of Horus, Krishna, Mithras, Buddha, etc.? I assure you that accusation is utterly false. I have researched this subject in depth. Click here to view my research on the topic. I reference the actual religious texts of the various figures in question. This is a very, very stubborn myth that was debunked over a century ago but keeps spreading thanks to the likes of Zeitgeist and company.

Please forgive me if this is another rushed reply. I need my sleep.

The bible has nothing to do with God, or theology.

It comprises the recorded gifts of knowledge, in textual form, a how-to book describing the process by which men may claim what is their birthright in terms of spiritual evolution.

We are not the final statement of life. How could we be? Life is never-ending, eternal.

All centres of consciousness are themselves never-ending. This knowledge was expounded by Jesus, who was a Jew, as a gift of light to all men.

For uncovering this knowledge as being of universal significance, he was envied and the target of an unreasoning hatred. He was hated by the high priests of his religion for daring to suggest that all human life - in fact, all life - SHARES in this eternality, not just those whom the high priests decided.