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NEEDED: everyones theories, beliefs, facts on the here

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posted on Oct, 31 2007 @ 12:17 PM
I started this thread because I had been a Christian growing up, reading the bible….i was a very very devout strong Christian and within recent years I have increasingly questioned my beliefs along with the bible. I believe still that there is a higher power but organized religion and solve-everything books just don’t seem to work.

Basically, what im trying to do. is gather all the information I can on the bible and Christianity and everyone’s thoughts and beliefs on it. I want to hear from those who are against or simply do not believe and those who DO and WHY YOU DO….any links for information on the origin of the bible, the reason the old testament is rarely mentioned? Things of that nature.

I personally have been researching as much as possible because I want to take my collected theories and evidence to my former pastor and see what someone who is supposedly so close to god has to say about it. Anyway, I have gathered much but I still want to make sure I have all my bases covered.

Some questions for the believers:

Womans oppression?
Murder, Killing for faith?

And if the old testament isn’t relevant because of christs crucifixtion then how come it is in the bible to begin with?

Also anyone have thoughts on this link?

if you go to the link the dark bible, you will find some interesting points.

posted on Oct, 31 2007 @ 03:04 PM
Well, it is my contention that most of the murders in the Old Testament "sanctioned by God," had little to do with the will of God and a lot to do with an excuse for what people did. You know, "Well, God told us that we need to wipe out this tribe and that one, so we did," type scenarios.

There is very little, with the exception of the Ten Commandments, that is redeemable from the Old Testament, in my honest opinion. Christ made it rather clear as to how a TRUE Christian was to act, and no where in the OT is that exemplified.

posted on Oct, 31 2007 @ 03:19 PM
Then i dont understand why the old testament is in the bible and why people preach from it when it obviously is so flawed and contradicts the "true" nature of christ?

posted on Oct, 31 2007 @ 03:22 PM
Time, a churchgoer would tell you it's because tha OT presented "The Law." Other than that, I really have never understood it,either...

[edit on 31-10-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

posted on Oct, 31 2007 @ 03:24 PM
Well see, thats the same for me...we dont follow the rules about cutting your hair and sacrifices but what of homosexuals...people love to pull out leviticus for that.

anymore links or ideas on the bible are welcome.

posted on Oct, 31 2007 @ 03:28 PM

Originally posted by time4chg07
Well see, thats the same for me...we dont follow the rules about cutting your hair and sacrifices but what of homosexuals...people love to pull out leviticus for that.

anymore links or ideas on the bible are welcome.

Well, I am not going to get into the whole sexuality bit. I personally don't agree with the homosexual lifestyle, but I try to leave religion out of the equation when it comes to sexual orientation.

posted on Oct, 31 2007 @ 03:41 PM
i dont want to get into that either...but isnt that the main reason people disagree with it? religion, that is.

posted on Oct, 31 2007 @ 03:49 PM
Personally I do not believe in "gods" or jebus, but I'll tell you what take a look at this website and see what the wealth of information contained in it says.

Jesus Myth: The Case Against a Historical Christ

Part 2: Follow up, commentary, etc...

Also, look at the following website. This uses logic to explain the existence of gods and why they are just imaginary.

posted on Oct, 31 2007 @ 03:50 PM
Well, I for one disagree with organized religion because I honestly believe, at least in relation to Christianity, we have been lied to over the last 1700 years. I feel like Christianity has been used more as a method of controlling the masses to do the will of the powers that be, than to spread truth. However, I won't get into the Nicean Council and yada, yada... I could take up 50 pages in discussing nothing but that and we still not accomplish anymore than what we had when we started... It's a vast subject.

Another reason why I dislike organized religion is becuase, in my opinion, it hinders a person from thinking for his/her self. Why think for oneself when there is an "appointed" pastor to tell one what he/she needs to know?

posted on Oct, 31 2007 @ 04:01 PM
thank you souls...exactly what i was looking for..

posted on Oct, 31 2007 @ 04:03 PM
see and thats what i was wondering about...the nicean council? arent they the council that chose to put the bible together the way it is. See thats what i need to, myths...i had heard something that it was christianity was taken from mithraism

posted on Oct, 31 2007 @ 04:05 PM
Yes, Time... Here is actually a good thread to go to here at ATS... ATS has a wealth of information on what you are looking for, but here is one thread that I found really interesting...

Zoroastrianism and Christianity

posted on Oct, 31 2007 @ 05:51 PM
This is a very important issue. I highly recommend that you get your hands on some apologetics such as evidence that demands a verdict or the spreading flame by FF Bruce (out of print but excellent if you can find it).

There is a sequence of facts that you should examine prior to just throwing your faith away subject to the propaganda of the world.

First if there is a God who loves mankind, then how has he revealed himself to us? Is this God so weak that he has allowed his message to be distorted or hidden? The answer to this is no, God has not hidden his message. If you look at the major world religions then, which has the greatest probability of being the revealed truth? We have
1) Islam: founded by a genocidal, promiscuous warlord. Preaches hate to all unbelievers.
2) Christianity: Gave us teachings like, 'love your enemies', 'Do unto others as you would have others do unto you'. Raises up self sacrifice, including God's sacrifice on the cross as a high ideal.
3) Chinese ancestor worship: Basically a pagan worship of one's ancestors. Very specific to a single race. No call to change the world
4) Bhuddism: not really a religion but more of a philosophy. Followers worship statues etc.

Only the Bible has an amazing unbroken track record of fulfilled prophecies. For example the rebirth of Israel is explicitly prophesied in Amos, Ezekiel and Isaiah. In Isaiah 11 we learn the further detail that Israel would be scattered twice and restored twice (fulfilled in 1948). Moreover the second restoration is clearly associated with the last days. Daniel 9:26 predicts accurately to the exact day the arrival of Jesus into Jerusalem.

So based on fulfilled prophecy alone we must look to the claims of the Bible and consider them more seriously. From this the rest of the christian faith follows. Now it may be that most of organized christiandom is in disarray and have strayed from the faith, but this to was prophesied.

Here is some more information.

And here is my website, which is getting a bit dated.

posted on Oct, 31 2007 @ 07:11 PM
All religions get used to further agendas, that is the sole reason they came to be. Not the sole reason they still exist, but why they came to be. They’re used to get people on the same page about the unknown. Devotion does not require a religion, just an understanding. There might be some history in their books, but that does not make their word God’s. It is just a really old understanding. As people learn more they will need to either make an even newer testament or just come out and tell us what they really know about history, if they even really know anything at all. All religions pretty much start the same way, with a people so desperate for common ground or freedom that they say God demands it.

Here is my best attempt to define God if you want to read it:

Nothing wrong with religious people, it’s just sad to see them being used. Devotion doesn’t need God, it just needs a reason. The concept of God plays on that reason. Religion gets you to form either conscious or subconscious alliances with people of the same faith. It is a very powerful thing.

Just look at the post above mine and tell me how religion is different than racism. That’s the most one sided argument I’ve ever heard. It’s like listening to a skinhead describe genetics.

posted on Oct, 31 2007 @ 07:25 PM

That’s the most one sided argument I’ve ever heard. It’s like listening to a skinhead describe genetics.

You nailed that one right on the head.

posted on Oct, 31 2007 @ 07:34 PM
reply to post by souls

The Jesus myth screed is simply a bunch of poorly researched theories used in a sensationalist manner to make money for the authors and attack the faith that would hold them accountable for their sins. Most real scholars do not doubt the existence of a historical Jesus. The pagan Jesus diatribe is largely based on a culling of thousands of Horus myths all jumbled and different from one another, and then cherry picking the ones that sound closest to the christian faith, and in many cases erroneously translating the Egpyptian hieroglyphics.

I could do the same with virtually any large body of text on virtually any subject. I'll bet I could 'prove' that the ancient Greeks knew about quantum physics by culling enough of their writings and presenting them out of context. In fact the word atom is Greek and was proposed by a Greek philosopher........

posted on Oct, 31 2007 @ 07:40 PM
I am a the sense that I do have strong faith in God. I cant really explain my faith in words. I just have it and I believe.

My parents were pastors up until I was about 25...then they retired. So, I literally grew up in the church. I have seen the good (very very good) and the bad (horrible horrible) side of organized religion.

As of right now in my life, I do not go to church, nor have any desire to. I miss some aspects of it, but wont go. But I still have my faith.

I grew up being told what to believe. I at times felt like it was forced on me and shoved down my throat. It took me many years (once I left my parents home) to figure things out on my own. To develop my own faith based on life experiences and my own research.

Over time I have learned a lot, simply from many many shows on the Discovery and History channel.

I now have very mixed opinions on The Bible, as we know it. I believe the bound book of The Bible was put together by men. The voted on what books to put in, and what books to keep out, based on society in their time. I believe there are MANY books/transcripts that were left out and recently found that are JUST as relevant as the bound Bible. Yet we were not allowed to read them due to the religious leaders of that time. That really irks me.

Another thing I struggle with is this. How do I know that the people in the Bible are writing things based on what they believe God told them...or is it based on their own opinions...or could they have even been "on something" "natural" at the time of writings. How do I know that the things prophesied in the Bible have not already happened. I have seen documentaries on this, that show many things have.

I just have so many questions, what ifs...on the bound book that was put together by MAN. How do I even know that those men back in that day were really worthy men to be telling me what is and what isn't?

I don't know any of these things. So, I remain very neutral on the subject of the Bible and its contents.

However, with that said. For some reason, I still have this strong faith that there is a God. I just cant explain it. I guess that is what Faith is. It is just something that is deep inside of me, that I have never turned from. I have seen and experiences things that can not be explained...except that it was God in my life. Eh, just so hard to put into words.

The only thing I have turned from is that I don't think MAN has all the answers. I believe there are way too many interpretations of the Bible and I don't think someone who is not perfect in every way, should ever be standing on a pulpit telling ME how to live MY life. Thus the reason I dont go to church anymore.

Anyways, this Christian of 30+ years is still in search of the truth I suppose.

posted on Oct, 31 2007 @ 07:50 PM
Greeneyedleo my parents weren't pastors, not even very religious. But I was "forced" to go to a lutheran school, so I guess, in a way, I had a similar upbringing.
Your explanation of how you feel about religion and the bible is the very first time I have ever heard anyone else describe exactly the way I feel about it.
I personally Thank You for your input.

posted on Oct, 31 2007 @ 07:58 PM
My fundamental problem with Christianity is the persistent belief that praying to Jesus is the ONLY path towards salvation.

This could not be more wrong, and does not even sound like something Jesus would teach. I can personally assure you that there are more paths to God than through prayer to Jesus.

To add to that, I feel that most Christians do not take responsibility for their own spirituality. Instead they believe that praying to Jesus somehow absolves them of all sins.

How about finding the truth and light within yourself? I did this and I found that I no longer even want to sin. I completely operate out of love and compassion, and when I make mistakes I figure out why and work to correct them. I don't simply give away my problems to some potentially mythical figure or potentially false book.

I would much rather believe in my own heart and internal insights through meditation, then subscribe to a book full of contradictions.

posted on Oct, 31 2007 @ 08:05 PM
Google "Autobiography of a Yogi" by paramahansa Yogananda *spelling* I am reading this book right now and it is an extremely good book for those who are questioning there beliefs. It gives a fresh perspective on religion, and the purpose of life. I reccomend it to anyone. If you are serious about your spirituality you should read this book. It is available free online at

Happy Haloween


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