The Disease of Mindless Patriotism, My Thoughts

Thanks AJAX for such a well-thought out and crafted post!

You've managed to eloquently set forth many of the ideas I've been pondering while watching our government change from public servants to public masters. Perhaps more people are aware and angry about this than I've thought? Maybe there is still hope for Freedom in the USA. Your quotes from Jefferson are right on target!

How do we get "we the people" back in charge of the government, though, because I don't know if you've noticed or not, but all the major elections are rigged so that only the wealthy can win office? Our petitions are all but ignored, and congress is so out of touch with the common citizen that it's a travesty to the democratic process. I don't feel represented in Washington, do you? Does anyone here?

reply to post by kosmicjack


I too agree it is protected by free speach. BUT, be warned, I also believe it is my free speech to walk up the person that lights that flag on fire and punch him repeatedly in the face. If somebody really want to impress someone and make a real statement, they should first wrap themselves up in that flag and then light up. Now that is Patriotism, dying for one's nation.

Sorry folks, patriotism goes a little deeper to me when it comes to issues of 9-11. I take that attack extremely personally. I went to work that morning and lost a lot of good people, a few good friends, but mostly colleagues. I see that Flag and think of evceryone who ever fought and died for our freedoms. I see that flag and remember those who dies that day. I see that flag and remember that this is one nation UNDER GOD, indivisble. That indivisible part is the most important part to me. Prior to WW2, we were a nation at peace, not involved with the goings on overseas, but keeping an eye on them. We were attacked, we responded. Not as individuals, but as a nation. The men went off to war, the women went into the factories to support the war effort and the men at war. People did without things, so the troops could do with. Now that is Patriotism at its best.

I am not sure why the attacks of 9-11 did not solidify the people of the US 100% any war effort that might take place. My guess is that us here in NY City were attacked and the indivisible part of the US is slowly falling apart. We are now longer the United States of America. The media has made sure of that. We are the red states and the blue states, the haves and the have nots, the right and left wings, the Yankee fans and anti-yankee fans. The media has separated us and wants us kept that way. They need a divided United States so they have groups to pander too. They have put labels on everything, black america, african american, italian american, jewish american, native american...... etc. What happend to being 1 people? 1 nation?

I am a PROUD AMERICAN. I willingly chant USA USA USA. I pledge to my flag and to the United States of America. I pledge to my family, I will protect you and my nation with everything I have; if I feel threatened. No one shall take away from me, or anyone I love, the rights I was born with, as a citizen of the United States of America!!!!!!!!!!!

reply to post by traderonwallst


Nice. But your rights end where mine begin. Your actions would cease being "free speech" and would then become "assault and battery". Somehow I don't think you care. Why? Because you suffer from the disease of "Mindless Patriotism". Thanks for proving the OPs point.

Originally posted by keeb333
I don't feel represented in Washington, do you? Does anyone here?

thanks for the kind words keeb

No the people in Washington do not represent me nor anybody I know. They represent a ultra wealth elite clique that has co opted the revolutionary thoughts of our forefathers.

How do we change it? One candidate, one election at a time is the only way. We can educate, and more importantly we can vote. Rather than buy one parties line we can seek out those candidates that seems to get it. Its a tought battle to fight, Washington DC is entriched and wealthy, make no mistake its not easy and we will have to shrug off defeat for a while, but we once changed things we can and must do it again.

Id say we take a page from the ultra relgious right. Rebuffed at the national polls, the began a movement to win small offices nation wide. School boards, county commisisons, etc Start small and soon who knows what. We have a huge advanatge that those before us did not. The internet, this very board is already trading such free thought ideas back and forth that once we get some momentum, its going to be hard to stop.

Originally posted by traderonwallst
I am a PROUD AMERICAN. I willingly chant USA USA USA. I pledge to my flag and to the United States of America. I pledge to my family, I will protect you and my nation with everything I have; if I feel threatened. No one shall take away from me, or anyone I love, the rights I was born with, as a citizen of the United States of America!!!!!!!!!!!

Well said trader. Many, many of us agree. People that attempt to take away the rights we were born with --- the ones granted us by The Constitution and Bill of Rights --- are enemies of this country. No matter who they are or what jobs they happen to hold.

reply to post by jtma508


Would you apply that to attempts to negate or alter the Bill of Rights in the name of the War on Terrorism?

reply to post by jtma508


Does that include President?

kosmicjack,

please expand on what you said. To me "acknowledge the mess and deal with it" and "arrogantly tries to fix it" goes hand in hand. . I am reading your post like you want action, but you don't like who acknowledges what the mess is.

To me, if a leader thinks "x" is a problem and doesn't arrogantly tries to fix it then he is not a leader but a politician.

reply to post by DCP


What do I do? I grow and can as much of my own food as I am able. I have replaced every light bulb in my place with energy saving types. I do not own a car, for years I got by on a bicycle until my knee started bothering me real bad, now I use a scooter that gets 70 mpg and goes up to 80 (I am told, I have never gone above 60), I recycle and I belong to the local natural foods co-op, I help clean up my neighborhood which includes part of the Roanoke River. I cook for the children in our local Baha'i' children's classes. I belong to a myrid of organizations from Greenpeace to the ACLU, the Nature Conservancy to Autobahn
Sierra Club to Plowshares for peace.

I try and live peacefully and lightly on the planet.

What do you do?

Originally posted by DCP
Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hanity, and all the other right wing radio/TV personalities question America policy/Bush/whatever, but they never put America or the American people down to do it.

DCP, maybe you need to listen to the right wing radio/TV personalities a little closer.

I constantly hear Rush, Hanity, Savage etc, putting a huge segment of the American people down.

They are constantly calling Democrats, Liberals, Ecologists, and anyone else that doesn't believe in their narrow conservatism, morons, idiots, America Haters, terrorists sympathizers, losers, wingnuts, crazies, yahoos, etc.

Or maybe you don't consider Democrats and Liberals part of the American people.

I think that your quote demonstrated very well exactly what the OP was talking about.

Operation AJAX,

What founding father do you most relate too? I would say, the revolution was started by the "ultra wealth elite clique"

who would you say is the ultra religious right?

reply to post by kosmicjack


My rights were originally infringed upon by you. You have no idea how much of a wound I would consider you causing me by burning my flag. Sorry if you feel harrassed, but my response as punching the culprit as hard as I can in the face would be an ample response. And believe it or not, I can not find the article right now. Some local judiciaries have agreed with that. Although they believe it is a punishable crime, punching a flag burner in the face, the penalty is a $5 fine and time served. NOW THAT IS JUSTICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I would gladly pay $10 for the priveledge of punching a flag burner in the face.

What have you done with your Freedoms today?

I got up and walked to my car with no snipers.
I drive to work with no IED's
I have a job that any social class can obtain
I can log onto the internet uncensored
I can buy anything i want
I can change jobs with no problem
My store is never out of food
Gas is around the corner
Alchohol is legal
ANY music is legal
I can go to bars
I can look at women without full coverings
I can return to college for another masters
I can own guns
I can get excellent medical care

These are a few of the things that I can do in this country with my freedoms. I have stated over and over that it is not about us and religion, it is about our children and the future. If we start now, in 20 years we can wipe the elite from the government. Start local by a city councilman/woman and enter public service to help everyone not just promote an agenda.

So, according to your statement, anyone who is patriotic is not to intelligent or sensible. Patriotism is more than wanting to bomb nations and secure oil, it is about preserving the thoughts and insight our founding fathers had, and we need to improve on the idea.

The world is a disease and open minds are the cure. You are no worse than those who label you with the OP submitted.

Grover

much respect for you.

Grover

much respect for you.

Whaa,

sorry, let me be more specific, right wing radio over all idea is that: America is the greatest nation in the world and that the American People can do whatever they put their minds too.

They do use words like "morons, idiots, America Haters, terrorists sympathizers, losers, wingnuts, crazies, yahoos, etc." For two reasons, 1)some people in America are at least one word from the list above and some are even all the words. 2) it's an act, it's entertainment. more listeners equals more money.

DCP,

I see what you mean. Is it OK for me to believe that anyone that finds right wing radio entertaining, a moron. With it's mindless Patriotic, hateful rhetoric and trying to divide this country rather than unifying it just for ratings.



[edit on 9-10-2007 by whaaa]

reply to post by esdad71



What have I done with my freedoms today?

I have served lunch at a homeless shelter.
I gave some produce from my garden to this elderly couple a few doors down from me.
I cleaned up my block.
I made someone laugh who had been crying.
I offered to help someone.
I prayed for peace.
I told someone I loved them.
I told the truth.
I recycled my garbage.
I helped out at my co-op even though I didn't have to.
I helped plan a lesson for the children's classes I usually cook for.
I played with my animals.
I enjoyed being alive.

There is also a disease of mindless hatred of all authority. Lets not damn one side without acknowledging the other. The other side is dangerous too. Then there is the most dangerous of all. Well meaning people who think there is no threat and the world is all sunshine and Daisy's. Those who think if we did away with the Military the world would leave us alone. The people who think if we just do nothing the bad guys will leave us be.

We need to also realize that there are not millions of US Citizens trying to sneak into other countries. There are however millions of people from other countries trying to sneak into the US. The same people who criticize us the most are the ones trying to become us. They risk imprisonment just to have a chance at being a part of this Country.

I believe it is also of note that we provided the education to many of our enemies. Because of that their propaganda is particularly effective. People should not be so naive as to believe they mean us no harm.

People like Buddha and Jesus, St. Francis and Rumi, Gandhi and Nelson Mandela have all taught us that if the heart, soul and mind are free of hate then the body can be anywhere including a prison; whereas, if the heart, soul and mind are full of hate, then you can have all the physical freedom the world has to offer and still be imprisoned.

Freedom is not simply a matter of what you can or cannot do, it is a matter of the spirit as well.

[edit on 9-10-2007 by grover]