The Disease of Mindless Patriotism, My Thoughts

Kudos to you Ajax. Flagged and Starred by me.

I was going to compile something similar to be honest. Maybe I will on the subject of what counts as "Freedom".

reply to post by TXMACHINEGUNDLR


With all due respect, thats just the type of self centered/selfish response that I think we would expect from a 'mindless patriot'. Yeah -- don't worry about the damage your beautiful nation does to so many other developing (or 'would be' developing) countries... ALL the NEEDLESS suffering that countless individuals and families have to endure -- just so you can go to the baseball game. But as has already been mentioned -- what of your grandchildren? Perhaps even your own children when they're older? Have you been blinded so far, that you cannot look to the future? See the big picture? You can't possibly be that wrapped up in your own 'beautiful' life so much, that you just don't give a sh#t?

Also, what of all the Americans that aren't in such a priviledged situation as you, sir? Just their fault of course. They didn't 'work hard enough' ...right?

Yep.

Patriotism is just brain washing. When you cant look at something objectively from the outside and think for yourself, you are brain washed in my opinion. When you think there is a difference between Americans and Iraqis and Danish and Finnish people, you are brain washed. We are the same, just born in different countries.

All people are part of the same species: human beings. We seem to have forgotten that. Why not look at a Iraqi and be happy that both him and you are here? He feels what you do. He thinks like you do. You are the SAME.

Patriotism is worthless. It destroys your ability to think. It makes you think in terms of "us and them" instead of "us". With or against us, remember that stupid Bush quote? Another one... "we must be united as a country". Bullcrap.



[edit on 9-10-2007 by Copernicus]

Patriotism, especially post 9/11 is a way to get consumers to spend money, just like over rated US Holidays. Whereas this is a more clear fact, you feel like having any form of patriotism in this country or pride to be here-for example being proud your family ancestory emigrated here, thus giving their future offspring better lives, for which has been true in the past- is gone. It just makes you feel as it if's not even worth it.

We all need to pause and make certain that what we are calling patriotism --- both here and in general --- is, in fact, patriotism. I would argue that what is being passed today as patriotism is no more TRUE patriotism than radical Islam is religion. What is being called patriotism these days is a parroting of a perverse and radical political agenda. Those that support it have hijacked this country in much the same way that the 'Christian-right' has hijacked Christianity, radical Islam has hijacked Islam and Zioism has hijacked Judaism. In all cases, they attempt to make people believe that THEIR interpretations are the valid ones and if you disagree you are unpatriotic/unChristian, etc.

Patriotism, by definition, is love and devotion to your country. What is our country? It is carefully and explicitly defined in The Constitution and Bill of Rights. In those founding documents it defines who we are, what we stand for and how we are to function.

TRUE patriotism, then, is a loyalty to the precepts ensconced in those documents. A pledge of that loyalty, by the way, is central to all oaths of office in the country including those of the military. It should be frightening clear, then, that people who act against the precepts of the Constitution like... oh, I don't know... the ENTIRE Administration are not only decidedly unpatriotic but treasonous in their acts.

Yes, without question, we are a wonderful and unique country. But everything that made us/makes us that is rapidly slipping away. It's happening on OUR watch and if any of you have one shred of REAL patriotism left in you, you'll stand-up and do something --- before it's too late.

Originally posted by jtma508
What is being called patriotism these days is a parroting of a perverse and radical political agenda. Those that support it have hijacked this country in much the same way that the 'Christian-right' has hijacked Christianity, radical Islam has hijacked Islam and Zioism has hijacked Judaism.

Thats so true.

Radical "Patriotism" is exactly the same as radical Islam. The only difference is the methods employed in killing people.

My hat is off to OP Ajax. There are many... including a lot on here that suffer from a knee jerk, my country right or wrong jingoism and if you are to believe what they claim, they are the only true patriots, they are the only one's who love their country and that anyone who dares disagree with them or the policies of this administration you hate America, you blame America first, that you are a traitor and are supporting some nefarious enemy.

All of this is a self serving stinking pile of bull hooey and nothing more than an attempt to discredit those who disagree with the policies of this administration.

One of the most patriotic things a person can do is to disagree when they honestly feel that their country is headed wrong as opposed to blindly following.

If you really want to know how patriotism is skewed, look at Joseph McCarthy. There has always been a fear/patriotism during times of great conflict. Look what America did to the Germans in WWI & WWII, the Japanese in WWII and now Americans post 9/11. It has been said that the Terriorists accomplished their mission because America is living in fear. I think the government lucked out in this one.

Patriotism is doing what your government says without question. Questioning ideas or protesting them is liberal trash and that equals communism which equals terrorism. If you're not with us %100 then you're against us %100. There is no middle ground and no space for dissent. You all disgust me with your "free thinking" malarkey. Here's American Idol, watch this and get fat and stupid.

As Thomas Jefferson said "The government is the master and the peasants need to shut up."

By the way I've contacted the FBI, DHS, CIA, DEA, NSA, IRS, IRA, STASI, NAU, NWO, PLO, KGB, MI6 and a host of other entities and alerted them to your hate speech. Expect to be carried away shortly and you can explain yourselves to a scalding hot iron. Think about that next time you question freedom from your tiny cell in Cuba.



Sincerely,

The Freedom Lovers

[edit on 9-10-2007 by merryxmas]

Originally posted by merryxmas
By the way I've contacted the FBI, DHS, CIA, DEA, NSA, IRS, IRA, STASI, NAU, NWO, PLO, KGB, MI6 and a host of other entities and alerted them to your hate speech. Expect to be carried away shortly and you can explain yourselves to a scalding hot iron. Think about that next time you question freedom from your tiny cell in Cuba.

Good morning

Since I did not detect a smiley or two or the suble use of [ sarcasm tags] I will take your post at face value for now . This is EXACTLY the type of mindless patritism they are looking for and cultivating. Its far easier to go about your life when you don't have a need to think. "the government does my thinking for me" This is not the United States I grew up in and nor is it one in which I wish to live in. But being a true patriot means rather than cut and run, I will stand my ground and try to change the system back to what it used to be.

What could be more patriotic than to exersize my constituional rights to complain about my government?

The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves.
-----------------Dresden James

reply to post by LordHrodric


Great example. Everyone should see the movie 'Good Night and Good Luck' to get a sense of the McCarthy era. And the worrisome similarities going on today and especially shortly after 9/11. Look to the recent crap Obama took for not wearing the lapel pin. Are people serious? With everything going on in this country and especially within the government we choose to focus on a lapel pin?

Another great movie in the same vein is 'The Lives of Others'. It illustrates life under the totalitarian rule in East Germany during the cold war when they had to contend with the government wiretapping, reading mail, searching people's homes and all the other things that (until the Bush administration) were unthinkable in our country.

Patriotism is a good thing not a bad. The opposite of Patriot is an Anarchist. I have read enough post here and i understand if you believe - insert your favorite conspiracy here (America is evil, Bush is worse then Satan, one of the secret society really runs the government, the NWO is in charge, every politician is a reptile, or whatever...sorry if i didn't write down your favorite) that giving loyalty to said government is bad. In reality, a homogenous society is the only way to reach most goals. So having love for or devotion to one's country is a good thing.

reply to post by DCP



DCP, Im sorry if you got the impression that patriotism is bad. It is not, but the concept I put forth of 'mindless patriotism is detrimental to the United States as a whole. There is a whole group of people that seems to think that patriotism is obeying your government without question, that flying the flag is patriotism etc etc. yet you question the actions and motives of your government and suddently you are Not patriotic. Ask Bill Mahar, or the Dixie Chicks about what happens when you do that.

reply to post by DCP


I love my country (which is not by the way the same thing as the government) dearly but I love my planet more. Nationalism is a disease that will kill us all yet.

It is one thing to be devoted to one's home. Know that however; The United States is a part of the world, the world is not a part of the United States. The people who live outside of the United States have rights and needs as well and our nation has an unpleasant history of running rough shod over many of them.

We need to start thinking beyond the provincialism of nations and start dealing with the issues that affect us all regardless of country.

[edit on 9-10-2007 by grover]

mindless anything is bad...

I am not sure what bill marah reference you are talking about, but the chicks didn't disagree/question with America the Chicks( Natalie Maines) put America down. Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hanity, and all the other right wing radio/TV personalities question America policy/Bush/whatever, but they never put America or the American people down to do it.

reply to post by DCP


I think he was refering to Bill Maher
en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by DCP
Patriotism is a good thing not a bad. The opposite of Patriot is an Anarchist. ... In reality, a homogenous society is the only way to reach most goals. So having love for or devotion to one's country is a good thing.

With all due respect, you're wrong. Anarchism is opposition to ANY form of government. Patriotism is a love and devotion for your country. Most of us that have grown up here love our country. But we've come to distrust our government. Anyone in government who dismantles the Constitution (after taking an oath to uphold and protect it) either through action or inaction is the antithesis of patriotic --- no matter how many lapel pins they wear.

During Hitler's reign in Germany, who were the most patriotic: those who supported Hitler's policies of genocide, empire building and facism or those who put Germany's longterm best interests ahead of Hitler's government and opposed him?

Grover, pretty words...really cannot debate what you said.

What are you doing to make the world a better place? List them, so other people who read this post can say, ok to make the world a better place i can do.... I am not asking you to give the dollar amounts to what organizations you give too. From your talk i am taking it you are actually doing something and i am also making the assumption that you researched it. Let other people know how to make the world a better place if they chose to follow your lead

Personally i think the best way to make the world better is for America to become stronger. The rest of the World is not as good as America (blindly patriotic I am) therefore in my opinion making America weaker by going with the rest of the world doesn't make sense. It would be like making your best forward play goal, really doesn't help your team win. The better America is the better the wold is.

JTMA508, you can use a dictionary better then me. Anarchism is not the true antonym of Patriotism. I read the original post as: patriotism to the government is bad. I would say that the opposite of showing unwavering support to the government would be no support for the government. Hence my response.

The genocide line was a tad over the top. the average german might have supported hitler but they didn't know genocide was going on. I will give you the average german suppurated some form of separatist policies(against jews, gypsies, and homosexuals) but supported genocide....

Originally posted by DCP
Personally i think the best way to make the world better is for America to become stronger. .. The better America is the better the wold is.

On this we agree.

But how do you get a better America? Is it by blindly supporting our government as it wrecklessly tries to police the world or arrogantly tries to fix it? Or is it through debate and analysis of our own problems. A plan of action for future generations.

An analogy: You can spend tons of time and money making your front yard pretty and your neighborhood safe and beautiful but if you don't maintain your house and clean it once in a while it will go to *snip* and ultimately your own family will suffer the ill effects. In order to fix the problems you need to look around, acknowledge the mess and deal with it.

Dissent is a form of patriotism. Flags are nice too but not nearly as effective.

[edit on 9/10/2007 by kosmicjack]

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 9-10-2007 by Jbird]