Is Satan really as bad as everyone makes him out to be?

I always found it interesting that some of the smartest people ive ever met, still can say with a straight face......I beliave what is in the bible

Originally posted by stellawayten
Satan was supposedly a fallen angel. Why did he fall from grace? Because he refused to conform. He supposedly wanted adam and eve to know the truth and give them knowledge. Whats wrong with truth and knowledge?

It wasn't Satan that punished them... it was God.

When you really think about it, was satan that bad?

Satan wasn't an angel that fell from grace, Lucifer was. From what I remember he didn't care too much for how God was running the show and led a rebellion which ended with him cast from heaven. Satan, the devil, and all the other names given to the ruler of hell, was basically a result of Christianity trying to convert the Pagans and using Pan as their scapegoat for evil. A lot of Pagan mythology/gods/holidays/etc. were adopted and changed to make it easier to convert Pagan's to Christianity but that's a different topic. Feel free to look it up, there are numerous sources that can explain it much better than I can.

As far as I'm aware, no where in the Bible is it stated that Lucifer was the serpent in the Garden of Eden. If we want to go out on a limb and say it was him, then I would have to question where he got his shapeshifting abilities, and how it's possible for him to crawl on his belly for the rest of his days yet also be the ruler of hell with horns, hooves, and a pitchfork...

Was Lucifer bad? Only if not conforming and not doing everything your told just because someone else says you should, regardless of whether they are right or not, is bad. As for Satan, he was a myth made up to keep people scared and following the rules set out by Christianity.

[edit on 5-10-2007 by Jenna]

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
I think that satan was really the sumerian god Enki.

Or Enlil - the LORD of hosts -which means army?
Or perhaps...Inanna is the driving spirit behind both the LORD of hosts and the prince of PEACE? She is the goddess of both love AND war, after all.
Zu was the storm-bird which belonged to Enki - the God of Forces.
And there is also the 'LORD of the harvest' who is metaphysically overseeing the 'reapers' - the psychopomp angels who hold our hands when we die.

Enki later got dominance over enlil and his clan.

No, what is written, more or less, is that Enlil was in charge of the 'mes' and he gave them over to the care of Enki. Enki, in turn, got inebriated with the 'help' :shk: of his sister/daughter/consort InAnna, who finagled him out of the 'mes.' But upon sobering up, Enki conceded the 'mes' to InAnna in good sportsmanship.
Enki and Inanna ARE Enlil's clan! And vice versa and likewise...

Enki was satan.

Take the Christian theology out of the Sumerian pantheon; you must define what you mean by 'satan' - there are various beliefs/ideas about that so I can't assume. And there are MANY similarities so no need to make names match - better to see if the theology/mythos fits in with the general view of the solar system - planets and some stars. And it does. Some general ideas/findings - filtered through the sediment of time:

• Saturn- LORD of the Harvest/LORD Saboath/LORD of the Sabbath/Enlil/Lillith
• Mercury & Neptune - Poseidon/Enki/Hermes/Thoth/Moses
• Venus & Mars - Lucifer/Inanna/Aphrodite/Marduk/Inanna/LORD of hosts/Prometheus
• The Sun - Utu/Ra/Helios/Apollo/Jesus/Elijah
• Earth's moon - Sin/Diana/Artemis/Nimrod/Orion/the Mighty Hunter before the LORD
• The Heavens - Anu and Ninhursag
• Earth - the 'city'?? sometimes called Babylon, sometimes Jerusalem, sometimes Egypt, etc. - the metaphorical demonstration of human civilization.

So it could be said that Christianity is in some ways NOT like Sumerian and likewise - yet they share more similarities than superficial and organizational differences - the same with religions world-wide. There is a basic archetypal pantheon that seems to dominate the structures of many religions - anthromorphic representations of the natural forces acting actions on, upon, and around, Earth.

notice the first testament doesn't want people to be godly.

Well, the LORD was a jealous god back then! Remember? Perhaps that was the nature of his jealousy?
He didn't want to share true freedom with the creation he and the six other co-Sumerian deity had created! :shk: He made a flood!
deluge-on-all = delusional

notice the god of the second testament wanted us to be just like the gods and angels.

Because InAnna DID want to share the 'mes' with humanity - and Enki approved. Enlil is S.O.L. yet that was all part of the plan.

the old testament god had nothing in it to preserve mankind and was our real antagonist.

Sure - ALL gods have incentive to preserve their people! Without a people, of what esteem is a GOD?

And IF the OT god was our real antagonist, then wouldn't that mean that the OT god was our chief 'satan?'

Yet, if there are two brothers in question, Enki and Enlil, then if one WAS satan when the other god - then for the other half of time they would swip-swap. Right? That's only FAIR!
[shrug]
But what about Inanna? She has possession of the 'mes'! She is a tutor - a teacher to her people - she wants to gift the 'mes' as education for mankind. Perhaps it makes sense to her since she's been in the underworld so long, dead? She knows what mortality is like and so wants to eradicate it...since she did, with the help of brother Enki and the two little genderless helpers he sends.

he was the misleading one. go satan (enki, the creator of man, the real wise god)

But Enki was not alone in the creative process!
Also there was:

• Anu
• Ninhursag/Ki
• Enlil
• Enki
• Inanna
• Sin
• Utu

It was a group of 7 acting as ONE. Just like in the bible. But yet not FROM the bible - somewhere else - before the bible was written. And in other cosmological myths, too - before and after and during. But Sumer, I think, is the oldest substantial written source that we have so far, as direct witness of its own perceived relationship with Deity. It was said, for many years, that they had the first writing - but now it is too hard to tell between the most ancient cultures - they all seem to have developed writing at roughly the same point in known human history.

Originally posted by Jenna

Originally posted by stellawayten
Satan was supposedly a fallen angel. Why did he fall from grace? Because he refused to conform. He supposedly wanted adam and eve to know the truth and give them knowledge. Whats wrong with truth and knowledge?

It wasn't Satan that punished them... it was God.

When you really think about it, was satan that bad?

Satan, the devil, and all the other names given to the ruler of hell, was basically a result of Christianity trying to convert the Pagans and using Pan as their scapegoat for evil. A lot of Pagan mythology/gods/holidays/etc. were adopted and changed to make it easier to convert Pagan's to Christianity but that's a different topic.


Was Lucifer bad? Only if not conforming and not doing everything your told just because someone else says you should, regardless of whether they are right or not, is bad. As for Satan, he was a myth made up to keep people scared and following the rules set out by Christianity.

[edit on 5-10-2007 by Jenna]

I am intrigued as to which pagan gods were absorbed into the teachings of Jesus. Can you please explain that a little more in detail, because you definitely got me with that one. I personally worship God in the name of Jesus, and dont care to bow down to any others. How can one trust in the word of a pagan author any more/ less than one of the writers of any other text?

As far as lucifer/ satan/ect. being a rebel and trying to overthrow God, well why would that not be seen as evil? Are we as humans good people? I would have to answer no. What makes a person good or bad? Does murdering someone make you evil? What about stealing, would you be considered a bad person for that? Can anyone here say they have lived a totally good life, without commiting any wrong?

[edit on 5-10-2007 by TypeO]

[edit on 5-10-2007 by TypeO]

reply to post by Copernicus


What a shame. Your opinions appear to be the product of our liberal educational system, especially at the college level.

You talk as though religion is responsible for all of the evils and deaths, or at least a majority of them. How misinformed you are, my friend.

Secularism, in the 20th century alone, is responsible for more death than religion (and especially Christianity) in the past 2,000 years. How many tens of millions of people have secular societies like Nazi Germany, the Communist Soviet Union and Red China, and dictators like Pal Pot, murdered in the past century? Do you even realize how many deaths these Godless societies and nations have been responsible for? Do you honestly believe that the followers of Christ have more blood on their hands than the followers of animals like Stalin and Mao?

At least know what you're talking about before you come on here spewing your hatred of religion. And then you have the nerve to ask for "proof" that Satan was evil. If that's not completely absurd, then I don't know what is. There's no "proof" that he even existed, let alone any proof of his morality. Religion is all about faith- believing in that which you cannot see. And just as so many on here want to believe in aliens and UFO's, so do we have the right to believe in God and Jesus. Just as we have the right to believe that Satan is evil.

Perhaps your time would be better suited removing 10 Commandment plaques from courthouses, or having your local elementary school students banned from singing songs about Santa Claus!

Originally posted by stellawayten
...I don't see why christians have demonized satan. He was supposedly a beautiful angel that didn't want to conform.

Maybe he had a bad day and told God to "go f***..." and his problems started from there.
On a serious note, from what I've seen in life, I'd say if he does exist he'd be the sort I wouldn't want to hang around with.

reply to post by NuclearPaul


ROLF...

Anyways back to OP:
I would say no. If people admit he was good and only made 1 mistake out of all the times he was good, there hell wouldn't seem like a bad place. Again they are trying to convert the world, and what better way to do it then with fear?

Is this a rhetorical question or another example of incredible ideology? From a Humanist point of view, the duality of the human psyche is only evident in cultures where the instruction of good and evil exist. I can site several critical examples of isolated societies where good and evil do not exist at all! This question is only relevant to people in societies where the values of good and evil MUST exist, as opposed to those societies where it is irrelevant. I must ask that anyone who seriously takes the importance of evil within human nature to define that existence whithin themselves. If there is no Good(ie. GOD) then there is no Evil(ie. D EVIL, satan, etc.)

The whole earth has been corrupted through the works that were taught by Azazel: to him ascribe all sin. ”

— 1 Enoch 2:8

According to 1 Enoch (a book of the Apocrypha), Azazel (here spelled ‘ăzā’zyēl) was one of the chief Grigori, a group of fallen angels who married women. This same story (without any mention of Azazel) is told in Genesis 6:2-4:

That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. […] There were giants in the earth in those days; and also afterward, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

1 Enoch portrays Azazel as responsible for teaching people to make weapons and cosmetics, for which he was cast out of heaven. 1 Enoch 2:8 reads:

And Azazel taught men to make swords and knives and shields and breastplates; and made known to them the metals [of the earth] and the art of working them; and bracelets and ornaments; and the use of antimony and the beautifying of the eyelids; and all kinds of costly stones and all colouring tinctures. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they were led astray and became corrupt in all their ways.

The corruption brought on by Azazel and the Grigori degrades the human race, and the four archangels (Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, and Uriel) “saw much blood being shed upon the earth and all lawlessness being wrought upon the earth […] The souls of men [made] their suit, saying, "Bring our cause before the Most High; […] Thou seest what Azazel hath done, who hath taught all unrighteousness on earth and revealed the eternal secrets which were in heaven, which men were striving to learn."

God sees the sin brought about by Azazel and has Raphael “bind Azazel hand and foot and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening in the desert — which is in Dudael — and cast him therein. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there forever, and cover his face that he may not see light.”

Raphael's binding of Azazel on the desert rocks of Dudael in upper Egypt appears again in the Book of Tobit, which is found in Catholic and Orthodox bibles, but not in Jewish or most Protestant bibles. In that Book (the only place in Christian bibles where Raphael appears) he accompanies the young man Tobias (Tobit) on his perilous journey to marry his cousin Sarah, whose seven previous husbands had been killed on her wedding night by the demon Asmodeus (a variant of which story is possibly what the Sadducees are using to try to trap Jesus about marriage in the resurrection they disbelieved in, in Matt. 22:27-28, Mark 12:18-23, and Luke 20:29-32). Raphael saves Tobias from the same fate by showing him how to deal with that demon, too.

Azazel’s fate is foretold near the end of 1 Enoch 2:8, where God says, “On the day of the great judgement he shall be cast into the fire. […] The whole earth has been corrupted through the works that were taught by Azazel: to him ascribe all sin."

In 3 Enoch, Azazel is one of the three angels (Azza [Shemhazai] and Uzza [Ouza] are the other two) who opposed Enoch's high rank when he became the angel Metatron. Whilst they were fallen at this time they were still in Heaven, but Metatron held a dislike for them, and had them cast out. They were thenceforth known as the 'three who got the most blame' for their involvement in the fall of the angels marrying women. It should be remembered that Azazel and Shemhazai were said to be the leaders of the 200 fallen, and Uzza and Shemhazai were tutelary guardian angels of Egypt with both Shemhazai and Azazel and were responsible for teaching the secrets of heaven as well. The other angels dispersed to 'every corner of the Earth.'

en.wikipedia.org...

Hope that long excerpt was allowed lol...

[edit on 6-10-2007 by Sekhemet]

reply to post by redbarron626


I doubt god = good. If there was a god that powerful, he would be neutral.
Since he created good and evil, which is to the beholders eye, he can't be good, unless he puts a spell on himself and makes himself 'good'.

Originally posted by saint4God
I don't have to think about it, I met him and know. Yes, he is "that bad" and I'm sure a lot worse than anyone can surmise with hypothetical thinkings.

BUT what if you LOVED and ACCEPTED him; just as GOD loves and accepts YOU?

No one is saying let Satan boss you around or take over your free-will!

Just do what Jesus would do:

• Love your neighbor.
• Love your enemies.
• Pray for those who would spitefully use you.
• Bless those who would harm you.
• Forgive those who oppose you.
• Make peace.
• Forgive and be merciful.
• Judge NOT.

Be therefore perfect as your FATHER in HEAVEN is perfect...

reply to post by queenannie38


I'll love and accept god the day he himself shows love and acceptance.

Btw what race is this so called 'father' of mine?

reply to post by AncientVoid


That is exactly what i mean. God supposedly being all powerful would be good and evil. No God=No Good OR Evil

Queen I like your posts!

I feel Innana/Ishtar was more of a brat who felt that she was entitled to be a chief god. I feel that she was a thorn in the side of Marduk Enki's son, and she was pretty warlike, impetuous. But she was a good leader of the people put under her dominion. Although I think she was ultimately indulgent and selfish. Didn't she try and sleep with every king around? I think she did it all for power. she wanted to rule over all the domains the sumerian gods had, and for a time almost did. I felt she started more wars than necissary.

That aside, I feel that Enki was more the wiseman, although a little eccentric. He was under the command of his brother enlil, but both sides of anu's family fought over who should rule all the time. In my opinion Enlil was more of a buerocrate/ despot like dude who wanted to just keep everything under control. Enki I feel had more emotionally at stake with the human experiment and wanted control. I feel that eventually his son Marduk did get the control over the pantheon of gods. Marduk was a lot like innana, maybe not as cruel as her but a lot like her. both power obsessed. I always likened Enki to a scientist. the chief scientist other than the great lady ninharsag. To me I feel that P'tah was more enki than thoth, who could have possibly been enki's second born son Ningezida. Ra could have definantly been Marduk. Obsessed with power and all that.

I agree with you that most of the panthenons of gods have been borrowed or handed down through ancient sumerian connection.

I ment that the guy called lucifer, or the devil was really enki, but that the guy in charge trying to keep enki down especially with his followers (humans) to keep him and his clan in check. Enlil demonized him in the equivalent of a smear campaign to make him look bad, called him the great evil one. bottom line was that this character was a threat to whoever was in charge at the time (enlil) and not at all to humans.

EVIL

1.morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked: evil deeds; an evil life.
2.harmful; injurious: evil laws.
3.characterized or accompanied by misfortune or suffering; unfortunate; disastrous: to be fallen on evil days.
4.due to actual or imputed bad conduct or character: an evil reputation.
5.marked by anger, irritability, irascibility, etc.: He is known for his evil disposit



Living '''IS''' evil!? Think about it, it is like a slow death from spirit to matter and back to spirit (hopefully) we do everything ass upwards making mistakes and are just like babies all our lives, and we are born dying! we get old and die slowly.. life is primitive... theres nothing new under the sun and were going 'back to the future'... and im not surprised the earth spins in reverse too that just makes so much sense.

What is the opposite / reflective word of evil if bad is the opposite of good? there isnt one.. WHY not? the only one you can get is with a 'mirror'......

EVIL / LIVE

Does the child who owns an ant farm care whether the ants are good or evil to each other? No, of course not, he just cares that they are.

But the queen ant might.

If there is an uncreated creator of all things, he would surely be beyond concepts like ego and hubris, jealousy and anger.

The Israelites attack the giants after Yahweh has gone away (wherever destroyer gods go when they need a break from the kids), and fail horribly, Yahweh tells them to go through the desert alone as he might destroy them because of his temper. Ridiculous.

If Satan is the definition of evil, then evil means: "To be dissatisfied with despotism, to liberate those enslaved through ignorance and to question the nature of things". He sounds all-American to me. Unless, of course, America doesn't hold those ideals.

From man's perspective, Satan is not an evil entity. Satan is the biblical Prometheus. Satan is only evil if you are the god he is trying to overthrow.

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
Queen I like your posts!

Thanks!

I feel Inanna/Ishtar was more of a brat who felt that she was entitled to be a chief god. I feel that she was a thorn in the side of Marduk Enki's son, and she was pretty warlike, impetuous.

I think, too, that maybe she was just naive because she had lived a sheltered life! She truly wanted to share the 'mes' but her trip to the underworld - through death and then back to life - this certainly humbled Anu's daughter!

But she was a good leader of the people put under her dominion. Although I think she was ultimately indulgent and selfish.

Well,but reason says she was EITHER a good leader OR ultimately indulgent and selfish.

Didn't she try and sleep with every king around?

I keep hearing that.
But she loved the mortal shepherd Dumuzi and her divine brother/uncle Enki! Perhaps she was just really hot and so all the kings WANTED to sleep with her, but when she refused, they shamefully slandered her good name?

You never know! It has happened before. More than once!

I think she did it all for power. she wanted to rule over all the domains the sumerian gods had, and for a time almost did. I felt she started more wars than necessary.

BUT - if everyone but her and Enki left right before the flood, then she might have sincerely believed she had been left all alone, for a very long time, until Enki finally got communication established between them...maybe she had to rule because no one else could! Except Enki who perhaps did not WANT to?

That aside, I feel that Enki was more the wiseman, although a little eccentric.

Indeed. A wise man would certainly be reluctant to actively seek power.

He was under the command of his brother enlil, but both sides of anu's family fought over who should rule all the time. (..) Ra could have definantly been Marduk. Obsessed with power and all that.

I understand what you are saying. But to me it seems oxymoronic for the most high god - in Egypt it was Ra - to be obsessed with power. If one is Patriarch of the Pantheon - well there is no power above that.

I agree with you that most of the pantheons of gods have been borrowed or handed down through ancient sumerian connection.

Only because Sumer is our earliest understandable ancient record of such things. But for centuries on end, the various cultures/peoples shaped their own flavors around the same primary forces - at the same time but independently of the others. Or at least to a general - it sure doesn't seem like anyone ever wanted to take over the religion of their neighbor - they all had their own and fought over them but yet underneath it all - if they were the same, no one seemed to know it.

I meant that the guy called lucifer, or the devil was really enki, but that the guy in charge trying to keep enki down especially with his followers (humans) to keep him and his clan in check.

Thank you for clarifying. Lucifer is = Venus, though, so Lucifer = Inanna. It is less confusing to not worry about gender but instead vaguely understand that Deity is ultimately androgynous. And there are many more names than different characters - they morphed and changed over the course of Sumerian lore, it seems. There were 7 in the main creative pantheon.

One complete early set could possibly be:
Enki, Enlil, and Inanna and the parents, Anu and Ki. And Sin and Utu. (not Uttu but Utu)

Originally posted by TypeO
I am intrigued as to which pagan gods were absorbed into the teachings of Jesus. Can you please explain that a little more in detail, because you definitely got me with that one. I personally worship God in the name of Jesus, and dont care to bow down to any others. How can one trust in the word of a pagan author any more/ less than one of the writers of any other text?

As I had stated previously, there are numerous sources you can find on your own that do a much better job explaining it than I do. Especially since my Firefox recently had a fit and deleted all my bookmarks for some reason I have yet to determine.. I'll do my best though, and as much as some here at ATS hate wikipedia I'll be using it a bit for this post since it's 3am here and I'm not awake enough to complete a coherent search on google.

Christmas, the celebration of the birth of Christ, is also Yule which, in some Pagan traditions anyway, is celebrated as the Goddess giving birth to the God. (Not all traditions believe this, but some do.)

Many of the symbols and motifs associated with the modern holiday of Christmas are derived from traditional pagan northern European Yule celebrations. The burning of the Yule log, the decorating of Christmas trees, the eating of ham, the hanging of boughs, holly, mistletoe, etc. are all historically practices associated with Yule. When the Christianization of the Germanic peoples began, missionaries found it convenient to provide a Christian reinterpretation of popular pagan holidays such as Yule and allow the celebrations themselves to go on largely unchanged, versus trying to confront and suppress them.

Easter is also Ostara, Halloween is Samhain, etc. etc.

As for other similarities Religious Tolerance has a page that lists similarities. As far as pagan gods being absorbed, how about Dionysus for starters. Cupid isn't just an asexual cherub that shoots people with arrows on Valentine's day, he's the god of love in Roman mythology and is known as Eros in Greek mythology. That's a short list, but more can be found if you look.

As far as lucifer/ satan/ect. being a rebel and trying to overthrow God, well why would that not be seen as evil? Are we as humans good people? I would have to answer no. What makes a person good or bad? Does murdering someone make you evil? What about stealing, would you be considered a bad person for that? Can anyone here say they have lived a totally good life, without commiting any wrong?

And if you were the greatest and most loved of your father's children, and then you suddenly were basically told that you should bow down to his new children as being greater than you would you not be a bit grouchy about it? If I remember correctly, and please correct me if I'm wrong, Lucifer was the greatest of the angels prior to the creation of humans. Not being happy about basically being demoted is not evil. Trying to change the way things are done is not evil. Having a mind of your own and not just doing what your told on one person's say-so isn't evil.

Are humans basically good? I'd like to think so. I think the majority of us are good, but it only takes a few to ruin things for everyone. But really, good and evil, and the concepts of right and wrong are different for everyone. You may see something as being horribly wrong where I may not, and vice versa. Your definition of good and mine are probably not identical. It's all a matter of personal morals and ethics. Under normal circumstances murder and stealing are wrong. Would I murder someone to protect my child? Yes I would though I'd call it self-defense. If the situation got bad enough that killing someone else was the only way to protect my child, I'd do it in a heartbeat and not have a second thought. Under normal circumstances though I don't even like to raise my voice and argue with someone, let alone hit them or cause their death. Desperate times call for desperate measures though. Would I steal to make sure my child had something to eat? Yes, I would. Under normal circumstances, I can't even take a penny from the penny tray but once again desperate times...

I can't speak for anyone else, but personally yeah I've lived a good life so far. I haven't knowingly caused harm to anyone. I have committed no wrongs that have harmed anyone else or deprived anyone else of their property, happiness, etc. But my definition of harm may not be the same as yours.

Anyway, I'm beginning to ramble so I'm off to bed. Feel free to U2U me if you want me to explain anything else better (or want to tell me how wrong I am ) as I can't promise I'll remember to check this thread for a response tomorrow.

[edit on 6-10-2007 by Jenna]

He is as bad as everyone else makes him out to be and WORSE!

The reason being, he wants to rob from you an eternity he originally wanted. Gods wisdom is unsearchable and it is by the mind twisting yet simplistic heavenly rule of faith, that God will sort out those who can be trusted with His power and those who cannot.

The perfect plan to make sure NEVER again will his created ones turn against Him with their free will. By allowing those who have not seen Him freely choose to believe and therefor passing the first stage of His plan which leads to the biggest and best party in the universe.

This is why Lucifer is SO evil ....

Jesus said everything I have I give to you. Not some things, but everything.
He also said everything the Father has, he has given to Me (Jesus), and I give it to you, my brothers .

Here is the best news ever. We are created in Gods image for a reason. That reason is we shall one day be God! I know that sounds crazy, but I will try my best to explain.
The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one. Three separate beings, yet are 100% completely one. We too once transformed into his likeness will be one with God. That means we, created in His image, will possess His very power. The very power Lucifer wanted for himself.

God or more so Gods nature is a clue to what heaven will be about. Take the universe as an example. Why would God create such a massive place, fill it with stars and planets, yet it is completely void of life? Is he waiting for something? YOU BET HE IS!
He is awaiting the glorious day of OUR transformation. Were we His children will continue the work our Father laid out before us ....CREATION!

Look at the world. Look at all we have created. Its in our gene's to create. We cant help but make things. Again this is for a reason, the reason we are created in His image. To continue His work, through His power, which he shall give to those who belong to Him.

I once heard someone say heaven will be boring. Sitting around all day on clouds playing harps. This is one of Lucifer's lies. He'd love for you to believe heaven is an eternity of boredom. Even better, no such place exists. The LAST thing he wants is for you to inherit the very thing he so desires, and he is doing EVERYTHING he possibly can to make sure you miss out on the GREATEST journey ever.

God, as an example for us created earth. Its like a "here's what I can do" from God. He also created the universe, but thats been left barren for you and me to go "here's what I can do" too. Thats what heaven is going to be about. One big huge massive creation eternity. We cant help but get all inventive and want to make stuff. Whether that be music, art, construction, writing, science and so on. And once we have been transformed, there will be NO limit to not only the things we will create, BUT what we will have to SHARE with each other for all eternity. Come checkout my planet, its free and you can spend the next 100 years exploring all the fun stuff I've created there. Whilst your at it, I'll be off creating and exploring other planets made by my Father and filled by my brothers and sisters.

You have no idea how much Lucifer does NOT want you to be a part of this.
It eats at his very being that we scrubby little earthlings are being given the opportunity to partake in the greatest (words cannot describe) eternity.
Seriously, the battle for your soul is on like never before. Lucifer wants to steal from you an eternity of pure joy and happiness. Does it get anymore evil than that?

Of coarse you will have those who will laugh it up at such beliefs. I say laugh away. If and just IF your wrong, do you have any idea what your throwing away? If I'm wrong, what have I lost? Nothing at all. I die, turn to dust and thats the end for me. But what if its all true? Can you even begin to imagine what heaven will be like?
I see before my eyes everyday what 1 God has created. When I think about the thousands, millions maybe even billions of others God will transform into His likeness, with His power, my mind cannot even fathom what wondrous things will be created in an eternity to DIE for!

Dont get jibbed by Lucifer. He made his own bed and has to lay in it, you dont have to join him. Prove him wrong by believing in Jesus whom you have never seen, and show the Father whom Lucifer has seen, you understand that faith in Jesus without proof, is the key to eternity because it bypasses the corrupted mind that Lucifer tricked Adam and Eve to eat of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil.

What a perfect plan God

The only thing I believe firmly based on ancient writings is the 'flood story.' There is a flood story in every civilization, meaning it's true to some extent. Also, the cities and people probably existed and were normal. They found Troy even after believing it was fictional, and there was evidence it had been destroyed as many times as the stories recalled. Basically, you have to take everything with a grain of salt and figure out what it really means. Don't open up and let the spoon come in. Religion in itself is not bad. Organized religion is. The organization not a god is telling people what to do. As for Satan's guilt, I acquitted the Snake in a mock trial in Sunday School as a child. The teacher was horrified and explained to the students that just because I did a better job stating my case they should know the real story and where the blame went. Pride is destructive, so is jealousy. So, why would a just all powerful being be jealous? Learn what you can from fables, but always remember everything you read has a bias. I do. You do. We all do. We see things through our own eyes. Satan is quilty to some. Innocent to others. It all depends on what the definition of is is.