Is Satan really as bad as everyone makes him out to be?

reply to post by jakyll


Mary, the mother of Jesus, was of the tribe of Judah.

oooops

double post!


[edit on 10/24/2007 by queenannie38]

reply to post by queenannie38


I don't dispute that.Just the geneaology of Luke being that of Mary's.

Originally posted by jakyll
I don't dispute that.Just the geneaology of Luke being that of Mary's.

Well, no, of course it isn't. It is Joseph's.

But Joseph's grandfather and Mary's grandfather were the same. Their fathers were brothers.

reply to post by queenannie38


What do you think of the quote from the Latin Vulgate,where the name of Jesus appears about 27 generations before Jesus "the Christ" ??

Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by whirlwind

 

Luke 3:23 begins the geneology of Christ through Mary. Notice in 3:23 the "as was supposed." That means "as reckoned by law." In other words in-law. Also notice there are no "begats." This is the true lineage to Mary.

I've looked through at least 16 different Bible's and not one of them states,in the 3rd chapter of Luke,that this is the genaeology of Jesus through Mary.Her name isn't mentioned anywhere!!

You believe that because there are no "begets" in this passage that it proves its the line of Mary? Wouldn't that also prove that none of these men where not the children of their fathers? We know Seth was a son of Adam do we not?

Luke 3:23 And Jesus Himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the Son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,


Joseph, step-father to Jesus, was the son of Jacob (Matt.1:16). As shown in the above scripture he was the "as was supposed" son of Heli, which means in-law. He was the son-in-law of Heli. As we know Joseph married Mary (mother of Jesus) we now know that Heli was her father. The Luke 3: genealogy is that of Mary, daughter to Heli.


The lineage of Joseph to King David was through King Solomon. The lineage of Mary to King David was through Solomon's brother Nathan. So...Christ was of the tribe of Judah.


However, we also know that Mary's cousin was Elizabeth, the mother of John the Baptist. Elizabeth was married to a Levitical priest so she had to also be of the tribe of Levi. This means that the mothers of Mary and Elizabeth were sisters and were of the Levitical tribe.


So...Mary's mother was of Levi and Mary's father, Heli, was of Judah. That was the earthly blood lineage of Christ.

I found this interesting passage in the Latin Vulgate....

(in English)

3-28:Who was of Melchi, who was of Addi, who was of Cosan, who was of Helmadan, who was of Her,

3-29:Who was of Jesus, who was of Eliezer, who was of Jorim, who was of Mathat, who was of Levi,

I don't know??? Jesus was a common name and, as you said, is Yeshua, Joshua and also (I think) Judas (not sure). So, it could have just been some other person. Also, the only "her" I saw mentioned is "David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias." (Mat.1:6) That "her" was Bathsheba but I don't think that is what your verse is referring to. Sorry, I just don't know.



............Whirlwind

Originally posted by jakyll
What do you think of the quote from the Latin Vulgate,where the name of Jesus appears about 27 generations before Jesus "the Christ" ??

Actually, Jesus, in its Hebrew form, was a rather common name among Jews.

reply to post by whirlwind


Those are paternal lineages; not maternal. Matthew lists Jacob as Joseph's father and Luke says it was Heli. It doesn't say 'Mary was the daughter of' or 'the father of Mary.' Maybe that doesn't coincide with your opinion but nevertheless that is what the Bible says.

reply to post by queenannie38


I thought that Jesus is derived from the Latin name Iesous;the "sous" part being derived from the name Zeus?


Maybe the whole Yahshua/Yeshua/Jehoshua name thing is totally wrong,used only because of its meaning.Maybe his real name,that appears only once in the each Testament,has been totally overlooked....

Matthew.1:23.

Behold,a virgin shall be with child,and shall bring forth a son,and they shall call his name Immanuel,which being interpreted is,God is with us.

Which was a prophesy in Isaiah.7:14.

Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign;Behold, a virgin shall conceive,and bear a son,and shall call his name Immanuel.

[edit on 24-10-2007 by jakyll]

reply to post by queenannie38

Those are paternal lineages; not maternal. Matthew lists Jacob as Joseph's father and Luke says it was Heli. It doesn't say 'Mary was the daughter of' or 'the father of Mary.' Maybe that doesn't coincide with your opinion but nevertheless that is what the Bible says.

There aren't two paternal lineages. Jacob was the father of Joseph, as listed in Matthew. This listing gives the legal (through the paternal line) claim to the throne of David. His line is through Solomon to David.


The line of Mary is through Nathan to David (Solomon's brother). Heli is the father of Mary but the lineage is given as connected to Joseph who was the "as was supposed," or....son-in-law to Heli. If Joseph is the son-in-law to Heli and Joseph was the husband of Mary then Mary is the blood daughter of Heli.


Now, as if that isn't confusing enough, let me throw in another angle:


Matthew 1:17.So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.


Count them. There are 14 from Abraham to David, there are 14 from David until the carrying away.....but there are only 13 in the carrying away unto Christ!


So...a Messianic Rabbi explained it this way:


Matthew 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, Who is called Christ


He said that the Joseph in this verse is actually the father of Mary. He believes her father and her husband were both named Joseph. That would make 14 generations. If that is true then what about the Luke genealogy? Either there weren't 14 generations in the last 1/3 of Matthews account or Luke was wrong.


Something else to think about.


............Whirlwind

God is worse than Satan in the Bible. In Deuteronomy it says Thou Shall not kill. Yet in the next chapter God commands the Hebrews to go into the land of Canaan and "kill every living thing." Also, Satan didnt bow to man because he "loved" God too much to bow to someone else. And yet "Thou shall not worship false idols." Something wrong with that picture. I dont buy into myths anyway. Life is too short.

Purpose of Satan and His Gift to the Children of God. (Pretty interesting)


Unlike what many people think about the devil, he isn't entirely opposing the divine plan that God has for him. Satan was created for a purpose and he has a gift to offer. His original name is Lucifer but was called Satan which means accuser when he accused The Lord of evil. The name Lucifer means light bringer. God created Lucifer to be the enlightener of the universe. Lucifer possesses the highest awareness of all universal truths and understood the nature of all reality. His gift was to enlighten all beings.

Lucifer was originally closest to The Lord until the moment when he chose to rebel. He corrupted his own awareness by forming a new logos or way of reasoning about the reality of God. He separated his perception of the universal and personal aspect of God, and therefore saw darkness in The Lord as a sovereign being. Although darkness and evil only existed as concepts in Original Consciousness, Lucifer believed that it already manifested since he saw that heaven was in an imperfect state of government.

As a divine aspect of God, Lucifer believed that he was being inspired and empowered by original consciousness to oppose the sovereignty of The Lord and make right the faulty order of divinity. He persuaded other light beings to join him in making the position of The Most High open to all, so that everyone can ascend into the highest divinity. But he doesn't realize that the logos of The Lord is the perfect and complete expression of Original Consciousness. Lucifer's own actions actually manifested evil instead.

Lucifer may have fallen in the eyes of The Most High, but he hasn't lost the gift that he was given. He still lives according to his purpose by seeking expression of his gift. God does not need to create another being to do the work that he already created Lucifer to do. He includes Satan's work as part of his plan. Every being is created with a purpose that only it can fulfill. Therefore even the work of evil is turned into good by the all knowing wisdom of The Most High. God is wise and efficient in using resources.

There is an invisible war going on now between two sides in the entire universe and on all levels of reality. When there is a war fought, there are spoils to be won. Nothing would be gained from fighting the enemy unless they had something really good for us. Each time warriors of Christ win the fight of awareness against the principalities of Satan, we stand a chance to receive the tools and knowledge they possess. We become stronger each time we see through the enemy's deceptions and rise above them.

All warfare is deception and Satan's art of war is to use all kinds of means to confuse, weaken and destroy the consciousness of God's people. The greatest weapons of destruction is not physical devastation, but it is ignorance and suppression against the soul. Knowledge is power and the more or less it is possessed by either side, the more or less power that side can wield. Satan aims to hide his gift from the church and share it only with the rest of the world. He makes Christians as ignorant as he can.

Satan causes the church to persecute, reject and even kill those Christians who tried to share this truth by labeling them as heretics and being on Satan's side. He has classified the whole portion of knowledge about the universal aspect of God under the term occult, which literally means concealed or hidden. He causes the church to fear such knowledge and to stay away from it. But Christians who are wise as serpents do not fear Satan's territory. They are able to take what is good and discard the untruth.

Some Christians might say what fellowship has light with darkness? But they do not realize that God and Satan were best friends in the beginning. They had perfect and closer fellowship than anyone else. Whatever light that Satan has is originally of God. Therefore the light that he gives belongs to God, for there is no other light but God's light. Satan is a being that has both light and darkness. Darkness is the absence of light. Satan is not the source of light but God is. We can embrace light wherever it is.

Good and evil existed as concepts in the universal mind but were not manifested until Lucifer misaligned himself from The Lord. The Bible says Lucifer was perfect in all his ways until iniquity was found in him. Lucifer perceived that evil was already manifested in The Lord by claiming sovereignty for himself, and therefore sought to right the wrong by persuading all other light beings which were the angels, to liberate heaven of such tyranny. Lucifer believed he was bringing the light to the darkness of The Lord.

A portion of the work that Satan is doing in this world is according to what The Lord created him to do. Therefore Satan is doing God's work. The other portion of Satan's work is against the Lord. He seeks to bring enlightenment to all but yet denies The Lord's rightful place as The Most High Personal Aspect of God. Such is the paradox of Lucifer's work, to be half godly and half ungodly. But The Bible says that there is no wisdom, nor understanding nor counsel against The Lord. Satan would ultimately fail.

Satan's existence and his work are part of God's universal plan. Those who are the wisest learn from anything whether good or evil because the whole universe is their teacher. If you want to be as victorious as you can be in this divine war, you must learn from your enemy. Do not deny yourself from receiving something that is good for you just because it comes through a particular channel. Whatever gifts that we receive as children of God, we should receive it as from God who is the source of all things.



(author: Enoch Tan )

Satan is not bad.
He just refused to follow God's ways.
So God.. punished him. In fact; God didn't even care whether or not he kept living or not.
God is the one killing billions of people.
Satan isn't even at fault for that many deaths.
And of course; nothing is wrong with knowlege.
Satan is perfectly fine in my eyes.