[HOAX]Found New Video- large Space Objects-F.A.S.T. [HOAX]

Originally posted by Jocko Flocko
reply to post by Lil Drummerboy

 

Because THIS thread is being linked to by members in other threads when walson and/or gridkeepers blatant hoaxes are asked about in the Aliens and UFO's forum, that's why....

OK ... hammared so parden the sarcasm... but why answer this in the first place. If it was real it would be covered up. DUH!!! regardless ofr what you may think.. YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH... he he, I love that line...

[edit on 7-1-2010 by Lil Drummerboy]

[edit on 7-1-2010 by Lil Drummerboy]

reply to post by Lil Drummerboy


Because someone who is a skeptical believer like myself, gets sick to the stomach and repulsed when charlatans and frauds like Walson and Gridkeeper give the credible UFO phenomenon a very bad image. Garbage like the "FAST" hoax only further help to discredit the real events in the UFO phenomenon and is one of the main reasons why the MSM still giggles and jokes when they report on a UFO incident in the NEWS.

For gods sake for the 11050th time LINK THE FREAKIN MORPHING VIDEO SHOWING that aspect was hoaxed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you can't, NOTHING has been prooven to be a hoax, since you can't just selectively choose what parts to replicate and then say "Hey, this looks similar" and then assume it's a hoax from that! You have to be quite stupid and closed minded to do that..................

[edit on 8-1-2010 by UfosExiZt]

JLW never said that they were alien craft... he said they are satellites. And he has shown the ISS, Space Shuttle, and other Sats that he knows of. However he also shows what he considers "spy sats" or "black ops sats" so where is the hoax? Are you saying that his ISS footage and moon footage is also hoaxed? Or just the satellites that he says he can't name because they aren't in a database?

Regardless the guy takes better footage of the moon than NASA... can't that count for something? Or is he hoaxing that?

What exactly is he hoaxing here? What's been debunked? Saying that he is filming objects in space that no one can account for? That's a weak hoax if it is one. If he claimed they were aliens coming to contact him and telling him to take pictures (Billy M.)... NOW THAT'S A REAL ATS HOAX!~

If anyone is to blame for all this it's Jose E. and Gridkeeper putting in their two cents!~ At least that's what I think... But still... the guy takes awesome video of the moon EVEN IF he points it as his trashcan and calls it a "spy sat" once in a while. lol Even better... YouTube account ChrissyoSpace (no ats style content here... just great space shots)!~

Originally posted by djcubed
JLW never said that they were alien craft... he said they are satellites. And he has shown the ISS, Space Shuttle, and other Sats that he knows of. However he also shows what he considers "spy sats" or "black ops sats" so where is the hoax? Are you saying that his ISS footage and moon footage is also hoaxed?

He's shown what is clearly a bokeh from a defocused star and tried to pass it off as a spaceship:
i319.photobucket.com...
Here's a bokeh from my own scope for comparsion:
i319.photobucket.com...
The exact brightness and color is determined by the star he used, the size of the ring and the central hole is determined by the amount of defocusing used.
As for his ISS and shuttle imagery, the early videos were clearly not ISS; the shape was completely wrong for any given phase of construction. I've been watching it go through each phase myself in an identical telescope and that is not what it looks like from any angle, not to mention the so-called "tracking effect" does not look like that at all, so yes I'm saying that's a hoax too. Here's what ISS really looks like when tracked by a telescope identical to his. Note the tracking errors and shaking from the gears trying to keep up look nothing like what we see in his videos:

Today I discovered that he has been taking credit for at least one image of the shuttle and ISS that is not his, probably to attempt to build credibility as having actually tracked ISS his earlier videos were clearly wrong. I immediately recognized the photo and I know who really took it. He's now not only a hoaxer but an outright plagiarist. Do not trust him.

Regardless the guy takes better footage of the moon than NASA... can't that count for something? Or is he hoaxing that?

Anyone can get really high resolution images of the moon using stacking from videos. It's all over the net if you know where to look. Youtube isn't the best medium to present that kind of imagery though.

[edit on 8-1-2010 by ngchunter]

reply to post by ngchunter


Do you have the sources to back up the plagiarism claim? That would be a sad nail in the coffin to me. And I would prefer if you compared video to video and not video to still photo... it would be a much better comparison. But I'm following you... can you add to this?

OK. Springer has spoken. Without decent proof, in my opinion he has declared this issue a hoax. And he has gone beyond that and closed the recent thread.

That is censorship by decree and degrees. (Yes, it is still available under "Hoax" for whatever that is worth.)

Yes, he has that privilege, ATS is his toy, but that action is counter productive to what ATS requires, and that is people discussing threads. AND getting the truth as far as possible thrashed out--so we users tend to think.

How often has he stepped in to stop a topic or hinder and why this particular one?

Most poster's have simply debated the single aspect of the videos being real or not. And the screaming from the hoax folks has been over-powering, incredibly so. They insist they are right. Maybe, but why so much noise?

I insist that credible proof is lacking on their part and the matter should remain open for as long as it takes, resolved one way or the other or not.

I will allow that the whole affair can be a hoax. But I also know that UFOs are real, triangles are ours, and that we have a very advanced space force which, therefore, allows the possibility of objects similar to Walson's being up there (whether he really imaged some or not).

It is counter to the normal investigations of UFOs and secret government activities to simply kiss it off without a full, unrestricted and propper investigation--as far as it can go on ATS. But this is not allowed in the usual sense. Again, why?

The critical aspect of this unresolved mystery is, if true, Walson has opened the secret of all time. And in the interest of that possibility, this topic should be pursued to a decent conclusion. But other forces will want to stifle it quickly.

My favorite alterntive web siite has a saying on its home page. It says "The best way to control the opposition is to lead it."

reply to post by Aliensun

Most poster's have simply debated the single aspect of the videos being real or not. And the screaming from the hoax folks has been over-powering, incredibly so. They insist they are right. Maybe, but why so much noise? I insist that credible proof is lacking on their part and the matter should remain open for as long as it takes, resolved one way or the other or not.

I have also wondered whether the [HOAX] tag here wasn't something a little unbecoming a board where objectivity was supposed to be the primary goal. If it requires proof for something to be real, there should be equal and just as solid proof that something is a hoax before the scarlet letter is stitched on.

But beyond even this, in the time I have been here, I have seen only a single instance where something was so clearly a hoax that it should have been officially tagged as such.

Bearing this in mind, I do tend to ignore the [HOAX] tag here as being irrelevant.

Originally posted by djcubed
reply to post by ngchunter

 

Do you have the sources to back up the plagiarism claim? That would be a sad nail in the coffin to me. And I would prefer if you compared video to video and not video to still photo... it would be a much better comparison. But I'm following you... can you add to this?

Sure, start by looking at this thread:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Zorgon mentioned JLW passing this photo around the web which to him validated the notion that JLW could really track satellites like the ISS and the shuttle. JLW apparently posted it and took credit for it on Imaginova, which has astrophotography voting contests, and NASA spacecraft forums:
www.thelivingmoon.com...
I immediately recognized that photo, it's perhaps the best photo of an undocking ever taken from the ground. It was taken an amateur named Paul Rix who does satellite tracking by hand:
The original thread:
www.cloudynights.com...
Other sites:
www.sflorg.com...
www.jimmythegeek.org...
www.meade4m.com...

I already contacted paul about this theft on the cloudy nights forum since I post there occasionally. I'm not sure how often he's checking his messages, but I linked him to Zorgon's post so perhaps he'll want to re-iterate for himself that he took that image, not JLW.

I would show you JLW's old videos with the incorrect ISS shape and 'tracking motion,' but he seems to have made that video private on youtube

[edit on 8-1-2010 by ngchunter]

reply to post by Aliensun

Couldn't have said it better my self.

One would almost come to think that some of the moderators sole goal in this forum is to put threads in the HOAX section just for them to be able to add another notch to their belt.

As you say, almost as if they are playing "who can put threads in the HOAX section fast enough with as little prooving as possible and get away with it" game.
Just rediculous and totally closed minded behaviour.

I would still like to see the video showing the morphing being a hoax. Why has this part of the videos been ignored?

Is it because it is harder to "debunk" or what??

Kind of like when Mythbusters do their experiments and they decide to call it busted even if the evidence is embarissingly poor.
Just low quality, that's what it is most of the times.

Anyways pls link the video showing the objects morph as fake.
If you can't provice this video then maybe it wasn't hoaxed after all.

I atleast leave the door open for either option, unlike some other folks.................

Originally posted by Aliensun
Most poster's have simply debated the single aspect of the videos being real or not. And the screaming from the hoax folks has been over-powering, incredibly so. They insist they are right. Maybe, but why so much noise?

As a satellite tracker and astrophotographer myself, this was the whole reason I joined ATS. Having some guy out there passing off what are obviously fake videos of ISS as the real mccoy is incredibly damaging to the reptutation of amateur astronomers everywhere. I get accused that my ISS videos are fake enough as it is, this guy just lends more credibility to those that say amateur astronomers are dishonest. As part of that group I have a responsibility to call out lies when I see them, especially now that it involves plagiarism of my colleagues and not just hoaxes.

I insist that credible proof is lacking on their part and the matter should remain open for as long as it takes, resolved one way or the other or not.

Would you take my previous post as credible proof?

[edit on 8-1-2010 by ngchunter]

Originally posted by UfosExiZt
Anyways pls link the video showing the objects morph as fake.
If you can't provice this video then maybe it wasn't hoaxed after all.

He's a plagiarist and a liar, he has no credibility at all. You don't have to know how a magician performs every single trick to know that he's just an illusionist. If you find out that not only is he just an illusionist but he's been stealing others' work and claiming it as his own, then why do you care that you don't know how the last trick is performed? He's a liar, don't trust him. Incidently, racking the focus in and out on a schmidt-cassegrain can cause the shape of an object to shift. For instance, this was actually a plane:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/200ab0d2acc1.jpg[/atsimg]

[edit on 8-1-2010 by ngchunter]

reply to post by ngchunter

The focus does not change during the whole morphing.
You are basically saying, "Well, I can't proove that the morphing of the objects are fake but I know it must be fake"

That is just bad bad science. This would NOT work in a court room.

You can't say, "Oh well, we know that he killed this person, even if we can't proove how he did it."

You can't just leave parts out of the investigation and selectively choose what parts to proove and not proove.

I would really like to see this morphing effect prooven as fake, before I can believe it was faked.

Maybe you just have bad information and he did film a morphing object in space.
I don't know, I haven't decided yet. The evidence is not good enough for it to be prooven to be a hoax though if you can't proove the morphing of the objects as fake.

So please provide this video.

Originally posted by UfosExiZt
reply to post by ngchunter

 

The focus does not change during the whole morphing.

How would you know? The shape changed, and that's all you had to compare it to.

You are basically saying, "Well, I can't proove that the morphing of the objects are fake but I know it must be fake"

No, I'm saying I know for a fact he's a plagiarist and a liar, there's no reason to trust anything he puts out.

That is just bad bad science. This would NOT work in a court room.

When a scientist steals someone else's work we don't try to find a sentence in their paper they didn't steal, we reject the whole thing and toss out every contribution they've ever made unless it can be repeated by someone else, period.

You can't just leave parts out of the investigation and selectively choose what parts to proove and not proove.

Wrong. If you prove any of his stuff is stolen and fake, then all of it is thrown out unless it is replicated by someone else with a known method. That is not the case here.

Maybe you just have bad information and he did film a morphing object in space.

My information is not bad, that WAS Paul's photo, please prove it was not. Otherwise there is no reason to trust anything JLW has produced. Even dj said it would be the nail in the coffin.

[edit on 8-1-2010 by ngchunter]

Originally posted by UfosExiZt
reply to post by ngchunter

 

The focus does not change during the whole morphing.

I took a second look at the "morphing STS-type ufo" video that walson originally put out to refresh my memory. Man, I forgot just how blatantly obvious and bad it was; focus was the ONLY thing that changed about those "ufos" and they were defocused to one extent or another the entire time! That's ALL it was, defocused bokehs, occasionally with something blocking the lens a bit, like a wire or circle at the bottom, to change the shape or give it a notched appearance. I could do the exact same thing, but again my main video camera is out of commission. I do have a webcam style imager that could generate very choppy video, but it's only for use with a telescope and my scope has a central obstruction that creates donut bokehs as opposed to the mostly-full bokehs that walson's video showed. Here's the next best thing, I took a video with a standard crappy camcorder that doesn't allow me to manually adjust focus while shooting, but by confusing the autofocus I created "shape-shifting ufo" bokehs. You could even see some "structure" for a second when I zoomed way in, didn't realize that until I downloaded it or I would have stayed on it longer. Wooo. Now if the clouds would go away I could do the same thing with a star and get the full effect of bokeh scintillation, color shifting, and turbulence instead of using an ever-steady street light. You get the idea though.
media.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by ngchunter

I don't know if we're talking about the same morphing sequence here.

But anyhow I couldn't watch you video, can you upload it somewhere else?
here is the morphing I was talking about
www.youtube.com...
6:10 in

[edit on 9-1-2010 by UfosExiZt]

Originally posted by UfosExiZt
reply to post by ngchunter

 

I don't know if we're talking about the same morphing sequence here.

Oh so now there's more than one "morphing sequence"? You honestly think he faked one of them but not the other?

But anyhow I couldn't watch you video, can you upload it somewhere else?

No, I'm not going to upload it somewhere else. As for the other morphing sequence, we've already established his models are tin foil, it literally looks like all he did was take an accordion shaped piece and stretched it out from a flat position and then crunched in back up. Whoop de doo. And the "tracking error" that looks nothing like a real tracking error? Easy with that telescope; just leave it on a normal sidereal mode so it tracks the model out of the field of view constantly and have a second person work to correct for it manually with the slew buttons.

Originally posted by Gridkeeper
admin edit:

This thread contains videos of what has been defined as satelites and stars being presented as huge "interstellar space craft" by using slow shutter speeds and moving the tripod holding the out of focus video camera.

The author, now banned from AboveTopSecret.com for hoaxing, has been asked several times to provide pristine exif data, present a fast shutter speed image taken seconds before or after capturing the "ships" or provide a clearer image of a known object as has been done by more than one of our members who have the same grade of telescope as the hoaxer.

Needless to say none of these things were provided and the author decried the request as an attempt to "control" him and stated he was leaving ATS forever,

just like 99% of all hoaxers usually do when they are caught.

Springer...
*************************************************************

Any way for me to independently verify this? You know, just to make sure that ATS isn't suppressing the truth

Appreciate a reply ;D


Abductee

Originally posted by Jocko Flocko
reply to post by Lil Drummerboy

 

Because someone who is a skeptical believer like myself, gets sick to the stomach and repulsed when charlatans and frauds like Walson and Gridkeeper give the credible UFO phenomenon a very bad image. Garbage like the "FAST" hoax only further help to discredit the real events in the UFO phenomenon and is one of the main reasons why the MSM still giggles and jokes when they report on a UFO incident in the NEWS.

it is very hard. I don't think banning these people improves the situation. It'd be great to independently verify this I think ? Perm ban is great, but now I cannot contact the hoaxer to give him an opportunity to respond??

Just a thought.

Abductee

[edit on 9-1-2010 by UFOabducteebe]

Originally posted by UFOabducteebe
Any way for me to independently verify this? You know, just to make sure that ATS isn't suppressing the truth

If you want to recreate his early work, stills that showed multiple identical ships in the sky, all you have to do is take a camera capable of exposures >20 seconds long, mount it on a tripod outside at night pointing up, set the exposure for about 30 seconds and a high ISO, start exposing and throughout the 30 second exposure shake the tripod with your hand. Presto, wiggly shaped space ships all over the sky, each one virtually identical. If you practice with it a bit you can even deliberately create specific shapes, like the invasion of the X ships I posted here several years ago:
i14.photobucket.com...