Getting secret documents

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posted on Dec, 3 2002 @ 09:50 PM
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I was wondering if some one would help me find secret documents that the government is hiding from the people. I know there must be some place to get them online, but it will probably take a lot of work to get them can some one help me please.




posted on Dec, 3 2002 @ 10:07 PM
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The government doesn't put secret documents that they're hiding from the people online. In fact, a lot of agencies don't have everything on computer yet and a lot of records are microfilm... or just warehoused somewhere.

Depending on which country you live in, there may be the equivalent of the US's "freedom of information act." However, you do have to know what you're looking for, and you do have to explain why you want it. You can't just ask for "all documents relating to UFOs" or "all documents relating to laser research." You have to wait till the document's declassified and then you can ask for it.

They're not going to give you classified info.

Documents found online are frequently hoaxes.

If you're looking for stuff to point to and talk about (beyond news sources), The Smoking Gun archive is very reliable (here's a link to some of their info on Bin Laden) : www.thesmokinggun.com...

He posts images of the documents (good education, since you can see what they look like and compare against fakes out there). They get their info from police and other organizations via the Freedom of Information Act. You can email them and ask exactly how they do it.

Unlike some of the terribly naive people on Internet, the government doesn't have all its goodies on computers connected to the internet and un-firewalled.



posted on Dec, 3 2002 @ 10:23 PM
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some government contractors do. That is how they get around the Freedom of Information Act. What you suggest though is illegal, and should only be attempted by proffessionals. LOL



posted on Dec, 4 2002 @ 08:15 AM
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"The government doesn't put secret documents that they're hiding from the people online." by Byrd

This is interesting as we have seen hackers being put away or in the process of being charged due to them compromising DoD networks and I would bet a penny to the pound that at least one document in all those files would be labelled 'confidential' or 'secret' - which means it is effectively hidden from the public - even if it is in the name of national security - otherwise why would the govt use encryption so prolifically - to stop foreign agencies for sure, but to also prevent its own citizens knowing what is being said or carried out on certain subjects I think is a very reasonable assumption. No government trusts its people - a sad but true fact of life.

Governments DO put secret documents online because it is a cheaper and quicker way to disseminate important information to those with a 'need to know' - hence it is a secret document that is effectively hidden from the ppl - surely the users of this board are not niave enough to believe that all information stored on govt. networks is simple public domain information there for reference when needed.

As to the thrust of the posters question, it is illegal and you should be aware of the penalties that the country hosting the network or server resides in impose on hackers. Hacking well takes years of practice and it depends on whether you're a black or white hat as to how fast you might progress but you can do worse than try these url's to get you started:

www.happyhacker.org... go for the guide to most harmless hacking section... some of it is old but good grounding.
or
astalavista.box.sk... go for the 'code' or 'neworder' subdomains, oh and possibly:
www.astalavista.com... for links off to tuts etc..

Also be aware that you may be charged if making a Freedom of Information request. Although this is levied as a charge for the time taken to search for any documents that match your query - you may end up with nothing. I would ask, is it really Free when you have to pay.. you have other public services for free, why not this? Being able to afford the fee for the search is restrictive is it not...



posted on Dec, 4 2002 @ 08:38 AM
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That's some fine links, Phait... some of which I knew, but some were new to me!

Haven't seen much reliable these days on getting jailed for snagging docs from the government... and in any case, I wasn't about to recommend stuff that could get someone jailed. At a recent security conference I attended, the speakers indicated that hackers were more into getting credit card info instead of information theft... and that it was generally done by high tech (there was an interesting demo with a wireless PDA) and social engineering.

They seemed to be saying that the old generation of hackers were the ones into info prowling and the new ones were more into taking down servers and snagging credit card numbers.

What's your opinion?



posted on Dec, 4 2002 @ 01:43 PM
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You all do know hacking is illegal.



posted on Dec, 4 2002 @ 03:34 PM
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but, if you get the information from someone else, who got it from a friend, who got it from a friend of a cousin of your brother Joe who got it from some guy in Ireland who got it from some guy in Singapore, who got it from a hacker in Germany, then that presents some problems for ironing out the legality. It isn't a crime to have information. They would have to prove that you obtained it by illegal means. I didn't take any National Security Oath, and as a journalistic principle, I don't have to reveal my sources, call my lawyer. Buh, bye!



posted on Dec, 4 2002 @ 08:08 PM
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QUOTE: "You all do know hacking is illegal."

Nothings illegal until you get caught.



cant wait for astalavista forums to get back online. its been down for quite awhile.



posted on Dec, 5 2002 @ 01:17 AM
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www.foia.cia.gov...

that says what the government does not have to release, but i dont see how ufo's fit into any of those exemptions. I do not think the freedom of information act really can supply with that much information. They black out peoples names, sources, and the stuff that we wanted to see.



posted on Dec, 5 2002 @ 07:58 AM
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hey byrd,
"Haven't seen much reliable these days on getting jailed for snagging docs from the government"

Well, I would take issue with the statement, purely because I don't the think govt. would want to state documents viewed in any prosecutions. They would merely indicate where computers or networks had been compromised. To get into the specifics of what documents were viewed etc could compromise their preceived national security... simple example - suppose yer hacker breaks in and views 'nuclear_stations_without_protection.txt' and then this gets mentioned in court as part of the activites documented by the hacker. This would precipitate questions being asked by the press and others as to the contents of that document... now seeing as the hacker most probably hasn't signed some non-disclosure agreement, they are technically 'free' to mention in court or after the case what the contents might be... I'm sure you can extrapolate this example to a number of other scenarios.

As for cases, your govt. has recently applied for extradition of a dude here in UK for compromising a number of networks including NASA, bet there's some pretty interesting stuff there.

And as for recommending stuff that might get someone jailed.. well, I respect your view. Mine is a little different (obviously
). There are plenty of objects out here in this world that are illegal to use in one form or another. Take the gun for example - a fav in your country - legal to own and shoot on ranges etc.. illegal to shoot at a person or brandish in public unless authorised to do so. Now, links I supplied are all for informational purposes, what you choose to do with that knowlegde is upto the end user. I warned him that misuse may result in penalities, but at the end of the day, its his reponsibility. I would consider myself more irresponsible if I withheld information like that.. after all where would we all be if we didn't share information?
I agree hackers are concentrating more on credit card fraud etc... but at the conference was it really about somebody sitting inbetween the card authoriser and the purchaser as it used to be or more a case of using the pda to hold the numbers from swipers (perhaps even convering them to be swipers themselves) and then using those numbers on the net to obtain goods etc? even setting up sites that mirror the original site and diverting some trafffic their way to obtain the card numbers?

AS for what the old and new are doing.. I'd say there are plenty of new ppl interested in info gathering, its just you don;t really hear about them as much as when some script kiddie brings down a server either intentionally or accidentally.. I can't help thinking that a good proportion of hacks by newer ppl are just accidental / experimental. They learn or see something new and decide to play, not knowing or thinking about the end product. Granted we learn by our mistakes, but some of those mistakes are pretty big and can ruin other ppl.

Turning into an essay here but, also.. the newer ones tend to be younger and things like credit card fraud means that they can afford things they couldn't normally get their hands on for a few more years.. info gatherers (I think) tend to be more settled in terms of jobs and lifestyle - they are not out to impress everyone on the block with their el33t skillz - more mature, you know.

At the end of the day, I'm all for everyone gaining as much info as possible - how they use that info is up to them and they must consider the consequences of their actions. Sys admins need things like sniffer programs to see where the holes are in their networks and where to patch them. It aso gives them a good idea of where hackers might try and if they wanted to, set honey traps and the like to record and monitor the ongoing situation.

If we took a M$ view of 'sharing' security information .i.e. they are reluctant to do so and always after they have been alerted to the fact and actually bothered to create a patch, then I would bet that all govt. networks would have been compromised severely by all other technologically advanced countries with net access. Only by sharing do we grow and make things stronger - individualists may grow quickly for a short time but will always be pegged back and eventually wither or be absorbed into the society...



posted on Dec, 5 2002 @ 08:03 AM
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Pizza,
The FOIA link you mention gives clear indication that all names, sources for gathering information etc are to be deleted. They also have the clause of using reference to other documents that may disclose the said above along with the other clauses. From a govt. POV its clever as you could potentially set up a vicious circle of reference for doucment that means you can delete various parts from each which are important.

The following clause seems a fairtly good 'catch all' aswell:

(b)(2) Applies to information which pertains solely to the internal rules and practices of the Agency

Does anyone, apart from those within, actually know ALL the internal rules and practicecs of the Agency and if so, how frequently are these subject to changes?

[Edited on 5-12-2002 by phait]





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