Why do Christian and other Religious groups lie?

Reply to Zerotime

Oh please, LOL until a few years ago I was described by most as a christian, I prayed on a daily basis, I talked to god everyday, so to say that one who is an atheist has never asked the question, what if, is funny to me.

Most christians are the ones afraid to ask that question and are often angered when others point out the contradictions in the bible and it's teachings. They don't want to question anything concerning their religious beliefs because they are afraid, their afraid of applying logical questions to their belief and their afraid of anyone who has asked the serious questions and are atheists.

A lie told to and believed by generations does not make it any less of a lie just because so many have believed it and fought so hard to preserve the lie.



[edit on 16-9-2007 by goose]

reply to post by zerotime


reply to post by zerotime


Asking 'what if' doesn't make it come true... You think i would really believe the adam and eve story? I mean who even wittnessed it? You have to ask the 'what if' question to not believe in god in the first place.

Your view on atheists doesn't match who i am nor most people in this forum, but even though, it's better than brainwashing and telling lies to a child.

The Bible says not to swear on anything, yet if you go to testify in court you have to swear to tell the truth on a Book that tells you not to swear on anything. What a Catch 22.

ok did you know

D.C. DID YOU KNOW?
James Madison, the fourth president, known as "The Father of Our Constitution" made the following statement: "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."

and

Every session of Congress begins with a prayer by a paid preacher, whose salary has been paid by the taxpayer since 1777.

Ok he also said these things Madison's objection: to a chaplain being appointed to say prayers before congress.

"The establishment of the chaplainship to Congs is a palpable violation of equal rights, as well as of Constitutional principles: The tenets of the chaplains elected [by the majority shut the door of worship agst the members whose creeds & consciences forbid a participation in that of the majority. To say nothing of other sects, this is the case with that of Roman Catholics & Quakers who have always had members in one or both of the Legislative branches. Could a Catholic clergyman ever hope to be appointed a Chaplain! To say that his religious principles are obnoxious or that his sect is small, is to lift the evil at once and exhibit in its naked deformity the doctrine that religious truth is to be tested by numbers or that the major sects have a tight to govern the minor. "

I have more if you need more. We could also throw some GWB in here just for laughs.

Did you know
Patrick Henry, that patriot and Founding Father of our country said:"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ".

He also said

"That religion, or the duty we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience." (Patrick Henry)

We could go on and on, it’s a good link I have posted, read it and enjoy.
Just one more opinion from a founding father.

"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish [Muslim], appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit. I do not mean by this declaration to condemn those who believe otherwise; they have the same right to their belief as I have to mine. But it is necessary to the happiness of man that he be mentally faithful to himself. Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe. It is impossible to calculate the moral mischief, if I may so express it, that mental lying has produced in society. When a man has so far corrupted and prostituted the chastity of his mind as to subscribe his professional belief to things he does not believe, he has prepared himself for the commission of every other crime. He takes up the profession of a priest for the sake of gain, and in order to qualify himself for that trade he begins with a perjury. Can we conceive anything more destructive to morality than this?" (Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason)

Im not saying the Christians did not have a hand in the creation of the USA, they very much Did. But we were not founded a Christian Nation!

So why Lie about it

Originally posted by zerotime

In my line of work I personally get to meet a lot of people of all faiths and atheists have always been the most militant, self-righteous, imposing people I meet. The worst atheists I have met have been 100 times worse than the worse Christian I have met. Atheists shout that religion is controlling the masses while acting like they know everything about everything. The saddest part to me is that in order to keep up the hardline appearance of atheism they cannot even ask themselves the basic human philosophical question, "what if?"

Ok but seriously

A curse on him who is lax in doing the LORD's work!
A curse on him who keeps his sword from bloodshed!
Jeremiah 48:10

Christo-Fascist Terrorism A good thread here. IMHO religious Extremism in any form could mean the end of humanity. Tell me would you not fight or kill someone over your beliefs?? Especially your faith and belief in God???

This militant, far right Christian organization, was established in India by Baptist missionaries from New Zealand. It exploded in size and funding, and in turn buildings and vehicles also began to explode. The NLFT and its offshoot groups demand the creation of a Christian state in Nothern India. They have been waging an aggressive and ambitious campaign of bombings, sabotage, murder and kidnapping. Here is a list of some of their more notable acts

Hey Mods Did I quote this Right??


But truthfully I do have a bad temper and have fought a few times in my life, oh but wait I was raised Christian.

Sigh. People always get down on atheists for simply stating that their way of looking at the world is EQUAL to the Christians. Christians start spewing their hate speech in a thin wrapping of love and when the mirror is held up to show their argument breaking down in all its rotting horror, they then turn around and say that WE are the problem.

We just answer point for point and stick up for our rights. The only reason Xians think it's hateful is because we don't back down and apologize for the temerity of not believing in their mythical god.

christian rights are not any more important that the rights of any other group in the country. if they stopped acting like they were more important and had a bigger say in things, then we atheists wouldn't be so offended and speak out.

When faced with a logical argument against their ancient platitudes, Xians must lie or get angry, or both. Because when the logic breaks down in their argument, they have no where else to go. I think the anger and blame is sort of like squid ink: when cornered, just squirt out a little god ink and escape in the ensuing confusion.

[edit for misplaced space]

[edit on 16-9-2007 by MajorMalfunction]

Geez, I must have hit a nerve with the atheists. First off, you guys keep saying Christians do this, Christians do that, Christians say this...Which Denominations of Christians are you talking about and where you are getting your numbers and statistics? There are roughly 2 billion Christians in the world. Most of the posters in this thread seem to be doing the old trick of lumping all Christians in the world into 1 basket and calling it a day. So far this thread is little more than large blanket statements about Christians, which is a technique used in Propaganda. (en.wikipedia.org...) And I know someone will shout another blanket statement that Christians have used propaganda for years but two wrongs do not make a right. There have been and will always be extreme or bad Christians, because a percentage of all people are corrupt in some way. That certainly doesn't mean that all 2 billion Christians act or believe the same way.

I’ll touch on some examples of what I mean…
The title of this thread: Why do Christian and other Religious groups lie?
The question itself implies that all Christians and Religions lie. Are all Christians part of this lie or walk around claiming this is a Christian only nation? No, of course not. A more accurate question is, Why do (insert name or type) of Christians or Why does this website claiming to be Christian claim this. But maybe the OP was not looking for accuracy.

Originally posted by Equinox99
God and science can not co-exist, but the people surely can.

Why not? I have noticed another theme in most atheist threads is to try to make the connection that science will lead to the death of God. I work with medical professionals and research professionals. My wife is a nurse in the pediatric cancer and hematology department at Children’s Hospital. I know at least one hundred doctors, nurses and some of the best researcher from Children’s Hospital and their partner Ohio State University. None of them are atheists and many of them are the most religious and spiritual people you will meet. All very nice, rational people with walls and walls full of PhDs. These are some of the best scientists, researchers and doctors in the country who deal with the human body and life and death daily and they all believe in God in their own way. The stereotype that all scientists are atheists is false.

Originally posted by goose
They don't want to question anything concerning their religious beliefs because they are afraid, their afraid of applying logical questions to their belief and their afraid of anyone who has asked the serious questions and are atheists.

All rational Christians question their faith as do members of other religions. If you look at the most recent revelations of Mother Teresa, maybe the most piest Christian of our times, she questioned her faith for 50 years.

Originally posted by ibgrimmeThe Bible says not to swear on anything, yet if you go to testify in court you have to swear to tell the truth on a Book that tells you not to swear on anything. What a Catch 22.

This is trivial but I’ll address it because it is not true and deals with religions and atheists. When you enter a courtroom all you have to do it tell the judge that it is against your religion to swear on the Bible or that you are an Atheist and you will be given a separate oath to the court.

i am christian. but i dont follow any denomination. i dont go to church and i dont listen to preachers. my bible tells me to read and decide for my self. i love science and think that most of it is quite interesting. but for someone to say that the adam and eve story is silly or any other story in the bible is silly. they would have to also take another look at the stories they call true. i mean i cloud of dust explodes a few billion years a go and then all of the sudden you get super advanced races and scientific marvels happening every day. you guys laugh at christians for telling everyone that eve came from dust but arent you claiming the same thing..

I'm tired of the this or that. Religions lie, why? Because people lie. It's not God himself spreading the religion to everyone, is it? So of course there are lies. Why do they lie?Because people lie, even when in their heads they are telling the truth. If you give your account of something, it probably has lies in it, but under the guise of what you remember. Not saying that a person means to lie by giving their account, but it's a lot of times at a slant of some sort. So religions have lots of lying followers, who were lied to and the cycle keeps repeating...

I believe that the reason Religious groups tell the tales they do, that being in direct reference to whichever holy document you hold dear and it's teachings today, is a form of propoganda.

All those thousands of years ago, the kings and leaders of the great lands in Europe and the East were constantly at war over land, either in civil wars or global ones. Empires rose through the strength of uniting many people under one goal, such as the Romans. It was near the decline of that Empire that the Disciples apparently first started roaming and spreading the word of Jesus. Christianity was born and spread through out the East, spreading further West and soon becoming initiated into the remnants of the Roman Empire. Mohammed and the Muslim following was not far behind. But for what reason did this happen? Well, the leaders of the time saw that religion was the perfect tool to unite the people of their land. Rather than enslavement and fear, they instead gave enrollment and the promise of a heaven after death. The people were of course going to do whatever the leaders wanted without protest if such was the case. Otherwise they would answer to God.

So organised religion was born and was strong for almost 2000 years, still is in the Muslim world. And the teachings have almost always remained the same, a common code for the followers to follow. But with the birth of free thinking, political awareness soon took over, and the ways religion conducted itself scrutinised. It is for this reason that it has slowly ebbed away, and gave way first to ideologies, and has now, as far as I'm aware, been almost replaced by the media and all its facets.

S'all about the power, baby.

Originally posted by zerotime

In my line of work I personally get to meet a lot of people of all faiths and atheists have always been the most militant, self-righteous, imposing people I meet. The worst atheists I have met have been 100 times worse than the worse Christian I have met.

This was also posted by zerotime

Most of the posters in this thread seem to be doing the old trick of lumping all Christians in the world into 1 basket and calling it a day. So far this thread is little more than large blanket statements about Christians, which is a technique used in Propaganda.

You really can't have it both ways, you can't in one breath accuse us of lumping all christians together after making a statement lumping all atheists together. If we are indeed doing that, then you are just as guilty.

Originally posted by goose

Originally posted by zerotime

In my line of work I personally get to meet a lot of people of all faiths and atheists have always been the most militant, self-righteous, imposing people I meet. The worst atheists I have met have been 100 times worse than the worse Christian I have met.

This was also posted by zerotime

Most of the posters in this thread seem to be doing the old trick of lumping all Christians in the world into 1 basket and calling it a day. So far this thread is little more than large blanket statements about Christians, which is a technique used in Propaganda.

You really can't have it both ways, you can't in one breath accuse us of lumping all christians together after making a statement lumping all atheists together. If we are indeed doing that, then you are just as guilty.

I never lumped any Atheists together. Reading is fundamental. Sorry but there is no contradiction like you want. I said the worst atheists that I have met personally have been 100 times worse than the worst Christians that I have met. I have met both bad Christians and bad Atheists and I stand by my statement that the worst of the two extremes has been atheists. I never said that all atheists act a certain way or even believe the same things. I know atheists who are laid back and could care less about discussions like these.

Originally posted by DaleGribble
i am christian. but i dont follow any denomination. i dont go to church and i dont listen to preachers. my bible tells me to read and decide for my self. i love science and think that most of it is quite interesting. but for someone to say that the adam and eve story is silly or any other story in the bible is silly. they would have to also take another look at the stories they call true. i mean i cloud of dust explodes a few billion years a go and then all of the sudden you get super advanced races and scientific marvels happening every day. you guys laugh at christians for telling everyone that eve came from dust but arent you claiming the same thing..

lol what are you talking about, big bang? You know science have proof right? No we are not claming the same thing.

1. because we got proof and is not based on faith, while your one is nothing but stories to convert people.
2. The stuff i think your talking about is called evolution
3. This life on this planet happened over billions of years, not just an instant.

Originally posted by zerotime
I never lumped any Atheists together. Reading is fundamental. Sorry but there is no contradiction like you want. I said the worst atheists that I have met personally have been 100 times worse than the worst Christians that I have met. I have met both bad Christians and bad Atheists and I stand by my statement that the worst of the two extremes has been atheists. I never said that all atheists act a certain way or even believe the same things. I know atheists who are laid back and could care less about discussions like these.

When people want to believe a lie enough, it becomes true to the believer.

Originally posted by zerotime

Atheists shout that religion is controlling the masses while acting like they know everything about everything.

No of course you never said that all atheists act the same way or believe the same thing.

well prove the big bang or evolution to me then acientvoid. i could careless if these stories convert you ive spred my message. the rest is up to you. i is of no concern of mine if you want to burn in hell.

The 3 vices law enforcement knows well... Religion, sex, money.

Look what Jim and Tammy faye Baker did with PTL Praise the Lord. Scammed millions. Than Jimmy Swaggert couldn't stand the notoriety the Bakers got and had to stoop so low for his own brand of religious righteousness. Oral Roberts called on his followers to donate 6 million or god was gonna call him away. Oral didn't make the 6 million off his followers and god didn't call him away. The big BS goes on and on.

Religion is about the money...

I was a kid once, and I went to sunday school. I was told if I did not donate money every sunday, not to come back.. I took there advice and never came back.

ive thought about it some. you guys are right christians lie to prove points, and scientists dont. its a shame we dont have proof of them lets just say adding feathers to fosils or fileing down jaw bones and teeth to make new species that would gap all of those da**d elusive "missing links".

[edit on 15amu12007 by DaleGribble]

reply to post by DaleGribble


Can you provide some examples?

Even if a few do this, it can be easily disporved or tested if they lied.

But when it comes to religion, 'it must be true' and so people are taught to believe lies...

Originally posted by DaleGribble
well prove the big bang or evolution to me then acientvoid. i could careless if these stories convert you ive spred my message. the rest is up to you. i is of no concern of mine if you want to burn in hell.

I said there's proof for it. You can google it yourself, can't be bothered to explaning it to every person who believes there was adam and eve.

O yes hell, where have i heard it before? The place where all the 'bad people' are. It's very real, like god himself.

Originally posted by goose

Originally posted by zerotime

Atheists shout that religion is controlling the masses while acting like they know everything about everything.

No of course you never said that all atheists act the same way or believe the same thing.

Again, you are taking things out of context. My original statements were:

The worst atheists I have met have been 100 times worse than the worse Christian I have met. Atheists shout that religion is controlling the masses while acting like they know everything about everything. The saddest part to me is that in order to keep up the hardline appearance of atheism they cannot even ask themselves the basic human philosophical question, "what if?"

Looking at it now I should have used THEY instead of the word ATHEISTS at the beginning of the sentence you quoted because that whole paragraph is describing the extreme atheists that I have met. It was 4AM in the morning when I wrote it but it seems obvious to me so either you are misreading what I said on accident or on purpose. Either way, I guess you are out of points to discuss huh?



[edit on 17-9-2007 by zerotime]