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Why do Christian and other Religious groups lie?

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posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 10:42 AM
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I have heard the dinousaur arc argument before, there is even a Creation Museum that has exibits, I went to get those vids first but they are no longer up.

The argument is this. Everything the Bible says is true, Bible says all animals were on ark, Bible says world is only 6000 years old, dinosaurs existed.

These people then have to fit a construct that allows them to keep all the above true. Their best fit is baby dinousaurs on the ark. Who knows maybe they are right it would only require for most of the sciences to be lies to discredit the Bible.

Chose which source you believe, instead of look at evidence learn the topics and make a critical decision.

I did think the dinousaur video was cool, big mama dino outside as baby dinousaur cries for her from her cage inside. The footstep sound effects were cool

[edit on 21-9-2007 by Redge777]




posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by Redge777
I have heard the dinousaur arc argument before, there is even a Creation Museum that has exibits, I went to get those vids first but they are no longer up.

The argument is this. Everything the Bible says is true, Bible says all animals were on ark, Bible says world is only 6000 years old, dinosaurs existed.

These people then have to fit a construct that allows them to keep all the above true. Their best fit is baby dinousaurs on the ark. Who knows maybe they are right it would only require for most of the sciences to be lies to discredit the Bible.


All animals on Earth excluding dinosaurs could not have fit on the Ark, doesn't that prove Evolution?


Chose which source you believe, instead of look at evidence learn the topics and make a critical decision.

I did think the dinousaur video was cool, big mama dino outside as baby dinousaur cries for her from her cage inside. The footstep sound effects were cool


Its also referring to the bible is a living book, so from time to time people find new meaning in it. Convenient wouldn't you say. The dino video was really cool.

IMHO the dino video is a lie.

[edit on 21-9-2007 by LDragonFire]



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by LDragonFire
I beg to defer, you have sinned, and you will continue to sin, it is your very nature to do so. Whether you believe and have faith or not, to believe otherwise, means you have some sort of God complex, I'm not accusing you of this.


We have an advocate, with Jesus if we 'mess up' and sin.


I merely state that from reading your posts and with the name you choose for yourself that I see much pride in you. Being Saved or even Born Again does not put you above your undeniable humanity.

Pride??? I am HAPPY. The ONLY reason I'm alive and not going to hell is because of Jesus. I have hope every day, and encouragement from Godhimself!


Again All have sinned and come short of the Glory of God.

Yes and the bible says, if we sin, we have an advacate with God, not Mary, but JESUS. His blood cleanses us.


I do want you to know one thing though, I envy you.

If I wasn't a christian, I would envy me,too! But, Anyone can have faith, it's a gift from God.


Example, I believe the pre-tribulation rapture is a lie.
I believe the young Earth Theory is a lie.

When the rapture happens, I hope you get to go, too. Because all **lls gonna break loose.


I have a 14 and 13 year old, both boys, and a 10 year old girl. According to some beliefs humans are born into sin, that it is human nature to sin. They lie. And so do you. You may never admit it, but if there is a God then he knows whats in your heart. He knows how you feel about me and others like me.....


Ours are all boys. God loves our children more than WE do!!(though we try) I want to instill in our children the 'Awesomeness' of God, the Majesty. If you have never experienced the shekinah Glory, than you should pray to God to show you. The thing is, you have to ask!!!
God does nothing in our lives unless we ask him sincerely to.



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 10:56 AM
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reply to post by Clearskies
 

uh my bad that post was directed to Saint4God...



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by Clearskies
 


If we sin

I say when you sin, not if.



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by Redge777
I find what you consider lying is self delusion, and I am a follower of Jesus Christ. Non Christians do this same thing.

People attach a belief, a bias if you will, then find things to support it, this the backwards way to do things.

Here are some funny examples



Sir in the video please explain to me the coconut and the artichoke, I love artichokes but man are they a pain.

and ofcoarse dinosaurs on Noahs ark




[edit on 21-9-2007 by Redge777]


Fabulous videos!! Many Thanks Redge!



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 12:02 PM
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reply to post by Clearskies
 


OMG you really believe this???? both of them??? so if you hold a banana a certain way ridges line up, See that proves ID...? I wonder if monkeys and gorillas have the same ridges...lol I guess oysters where not meant for humans to eat, or watermelons. Propaganda!


You really believe there were dinosaurs on the ARK??????



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 12:30 PM
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Well if you want to take the gloves off and get down to brass tax, here you go.


Modern organized christianity is nothing more than a means to extort money from the gullible, desperate masses of people via fear of a non existent hell and a vengeful God that nobody seems to ever see or hear from.

Simply turn on your television set on any given Sunday morning and flip it over to any Christian broadcast (dialing for dollars) and you will see why most cannot even begin to take the religious message seriously. Snake oil salemen dancing about, offering special standing in the house of God to the highest numerical bidder. These people even look like used car salemen and you can almost see the evil pouring from the eyes as they grin and gafaw and shame and sucker elderly people into donating their S.S. checks for the greater good of the church (i.e. a new Cadillac for the scumbag preacher) with promises of damnation and eternal suffering for the ones who can't "give a little more".

Evangelists are the scum of the Earth and if their precious hell does exist, there will be a special circle dedicated to religious cretins and bamboozlers. As I said, nothing more than fear based extortion, promising an afterlife they cannot deliver. I think in some ways organized religion can help people to live better quality lives by following the basic do the right thing type principles. But by and large it is a suckers bet and one that I could never whole heartedly base my life around or hinder my life because of.

If there is in fact a God then he most definately has some explaining to do.

My biggest problem with religious folk (my personal experience) is that they ride their high horses everywhere they go and they rarely take no for an answer. Most will not even consider, not even a little tiny bit, that they could possibly be wrong and someone else may actually be right. Also I find that while most Xtians in particular talk a strong game, most do not even follow their own basic guidelines. My point is clean your own house before you try and clean mine. I spell it H Y P O C R I T E.

Apologies if this post offends anyone, please bear in mind this is all my personal opinion and nothing more.



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 01:16 PM
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regarding the dinosaurs on the ark with animals well that couldnt work seeing as most animals evolved from the dinos with exceptions t chrocs and other such creatures



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 05:53 PM
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Who ever thinks there's dinosaurs on the ark is seriously confused. Dinosaurs weren't even known of existing then when people were told this story. It is a modern discovery. Here is were religion tries to change their story to fit modern science. It's so stupid it's not funny.

So 2 of every dinosaur? Lets see how big the ark would have been then. Anyone know?

What happened to the dinosaurs after?
Science has already shown how dinosaurs became extinct.



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 12:21 PM
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This is a good example Radical Christian Right Preaches Liberal Evil of Christians that lie to further political goals, warped as they are. Is Christianity a religion based on love or “other”

The radical Christian right has no religious legitimacy. It is a mass political movement. It is interchangeable, in many ways, with other traditional political movements ranging from fascism to communism to the ethnic nationalist parties in the former Yugoslavia. It shares with these movements an inability to cope with ambiguity, doubt and uncertainty. It also embraces a world of miracles and signs and makes war on rational, reality-based thought. It condemns self-criticism and debate as apostasy. It places a premium on action. It dismisses those who do not bow down before its god -- and the leaders who claim to speak for God -- as heretics and traitors.


They Lie to further there warped agenda.


When leaders of this movement, such as Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, sanction, as they do, pre-emptive nuclear strikes against our enemies, and therefore the enemies of God, they fuel the passions of terrorists in love with the same apocalyptic nightmares. They march us to our own doom cheered by the delusion that once the dogs of war, even nuclear war, are unleashed, hundreds of millions will die, but because Christians have been blessed and chosen by God they alone will arise in triumph from the ash heap.


Not only do they Lie They are delusional.

God is Required for Morality: Do Atheists Have No Reason to be Moral? Are There Atheistic Morals?


For most religious theists, their religion and their god provide the basis for their entire understanding of morality and moral values. They thus find it inconceivable that atheists who don’t believe in any gods and who have no religion could possibly have a basis for morality or even understand what true moral behavior is. Many go further and argue that this is a good reason to reject atheism, saying that it leads to immoral behavior, that it cannot account for the existence of morality, etc.


A long standing lie.


Religious theists' arguments against atheists' ability to be moral are frequently condescending and bigoted, but this myth about atheists' morality is not only all of that, but adds in unmitigated arrogance as well. Evidently, atheists are not able to be moral on their own, but theists are; thus we only see so-called "moral" behavior from atheists because religious theists - Christians, to be specific - force atheists to behave according to their religious standards. That's not morality, right?

Sins of pride plus lies.

18Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. 1 Peter 2:18

Thank God for Christian Morals.



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 12:57 PM
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Nice finds LDF.

OK, believers, riddle me this: do chimpanzees and other apes have souls? Are they followers of Jesus? no?

Then why do they have morality also?

Morality is biologically based. Religion just took credit for it so it would have a reason to continue to exist.

I'm an atheist and I have ethics that my Catholic ex-husband would never dream of. As far as he's concerned, he can do as he pleases because all he has to do is ask for forgiveness and *poof* sin be gone.



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 06:20 PM
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I dont think chistians lie in particular, anymore or less than anyone else does it is our nature to lie as a race pure and simple. I have no problem with science by any means whatsoever in fact i love it. Does science disprove belief in God? not for me. To science is little more than discovering the tools God used to create the wonderful world we live in. Personally i dont like to try and put God in a box, if he isnt the most powerful all knowing creator we are supposed to believe in to me it seems rather foolish to limit him.

but to get back on the topic, Yes organized religon is a bad thing they have become corrupt instituions that no longer resemble the faith they purport to serve. Televangilists perhaps being the absolute worst of all fleecing the masses to live the life of millionaires. Right up there with them are the ones who use the believe as i do or i will make you mentality. Closely followed by the ones who think they can do whatever they want and then quietly pretend to be repentant about it, that is not how it works, if human beings can spot a hollow apology, why anyone would think that the God they believe in would be to stupid to know it himself.



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 07:54 PM
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Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
Nice finds LDF.

OK, believers, riddle me this: do chimpanzees and other apes have souls? Are they followers of Jesus? no?

Then why do they have morality also?

Morality is biologically based. Religion just took credit for it so it would have a reason to continue to exist.

I'm an atheist and I have ethics that my Catholic ex-husband would never dream of. As far as he's concerned, he can do as he pleases because all he has to do is ask for forgiveness and *poof* sin be gone.


Morality is one of the reasons Christians Groups give to convert to there religion, and they have been doing so for Many years. Good Find MM


Convert or die has been another way they have used to spread there teaching/faith. In the modern era its just not "politically correct" to do so. Speaking of morality.


I find it interesting that they go from killing in His name, Convert or die then later in time they use this morality issue to convert more people. Take some time to learn the bloody history of not just Christianity but Most modern Religions.



posted on Sep, 28 2007 @ 08:35 AM
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And speaking of religious groups that lie there this one Robertson lies about his Chavez comments; claims he "didn't say 'assassination' " and he also called him a dictator when Chavez won a election that had less problems, than here in the states, and this one Robertson falsely claimed Justice Ginsburg "believed in" polygamy, prostitution, consent age of 12 see a pattern forming.


Would they lie to manipulate there teachings?


Kenya: Hands off the Turkana Boy!
Creationists are trying to hide the world’s most important collection of evidence for the evolution of man. The National Museum of Kenya owns a treasure of hominid fossils, documenting the development of our early ancestors. While the Museum is currently under renovation, powerful Evangelical church leaders try to press the authorities to swiftly “change the focus” of its exhibitions when reopening on 7 June 2007 and dump the pillars of our knowledge about the origin of Homo sapiens in the back rooms.


Yes they would also try to suppress history and science.

And another Lie here Schiavo Autopsy Report Exposes Lies Of Religious Right, Says Americans United


And so on Anything But Straight: Unmasking the Scandals and Lies Behind the Ex-Gay Myth I have know many Gay people and to say they where not born that way is just crazy, and that they can be cured is insane


[edit on 28-9-2007 by LDragonFire]



posted on Sep, 28 2007 @ 09:16 AM
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reply to post by LDragonFire
 

I heard Robertson myself say that. But with his political friendships, how could you trust him 100%
Evolution proponents have been caught lying for thier own ends for at least the last century; for grants, promotions and the opportunity to have museum control.
Just ask China about misinformation and manipulation AGAINST creationists. Here's a thought! The OFFICIAL religion of China IS atheism!!!! Hasn't it made that country a utopia of freedom and open-mindedness???

Terry Shiavo was sad all the way around!!! Except that her parents were willing to care for her the rest of her life, why not let them?
The way they starved her was worse than they do to dogs when they 'put' them down!!!
As for gays, ANYONE can change THROUGH Jeshua!!! I've met one lesbian who it took her to get cancer to wake up to her soul's state and repent. She was gloriously saved. I've listened to many interviews with others. Many, you don't hear about because it may be embarrasing to the person.



posted on Sep, 29 2007 @ 04:58 AM
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I do not agree with all the Christians that the media (ran by people consumed by the evil of greed) puts on TV. I think this is the tool of darkness. Their are many followers of Christ who think about what he teaches.

But there are some who do not. But Jesus still loves us all.

Mark 13:22
for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect.


2 Timothy 3

1But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come.
2For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy,

3unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good,

4treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,

5holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these.

6For among them are those who enter into households and captivate weak women weighed down with sins, led on by various impulses,

7always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

8Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men of depraved mind, rejected in regard to the faith.

9But they will not make further progress; for their folly will be obvious to all, just as Jannes's and Jambres's folly was also.

10Now you followed my teaching, conduct, purpose, faith, patience, love, perseverance,

11persecutions, and sufferings, such as happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium and at Lystra; what persecutions I endured, and out of them all the Lord rescued me!

12Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.

13But evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.

14You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them,

15and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

17so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.



[edit on 29-9-2007 by Redge777]



posted on Sep, 29 2007 @ 06:02 AM
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Where is the outrage over religious groups lying by other religious groups?? I see none. They seem to believe its ok to lie to further Christianity or the goals of Christianity.

You speak as though the bible is Fact.

The bible was written by man.

The books in the bible were Deemed inspired by God, By men.



posted on Sep, 29 2007 @ 06:22 AM
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reply to post by LDragonFire
 


Well lying is wrong, it is that simple, I do not know what others think about lying, but that is what I think. I don't like it when anyone lies, even if they are Christian. oh I lie sometimes, thank the Lord for his mercy and grace on that one. I am not perfect in anyway.

When I read the bible I get information I consider valid, you may not. In my view it does not make it less valid. So the information I receive from reading is fact to me. Not every word literally, but the teachings I receive.

You can read the same things I read an interpret them as you chose, as will I. I think if someone asks a Christian why do Christians lie, wouldn't you expect them to explain it with the teachings of Christ? It makes sense to me.

Did you even read my post? Is it not a good answer to the question?





[edit on 29-9-2007 by Redge777]



posted on Sep, 29 2007 @ 06:49 AM
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Originally posted by Redge777


You can read the same things I read an interpret them as you chose, as will I. I think if someone asks a Christian why do Christians lie, wouldn't you expect them to explain it with the teachings of Christ? It makes sense to me.


Explain a lie with a lie... Hmm should try that some day...




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