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Why do Christian and other Religious groups lie?

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posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 02:09 AM
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piltdown man, Archaeoraptor, global warming, numerous stem cell studies, carbon dating. i could go on but i will give you the advise you gave me google it. as for evolution and the big bang all i see is a bunch of people telling there theroy on how the universe was created, and how the evidence just hasn’t been discovered yet. but i will admit christians are guilty of the same thing. which is the reason i dont go to a church or listen to preachers or let cathloics molest me. any rational human with the desire to see things from both sides before they decide would have to admit that science is guilty of the same. i will say again that i have nothing against science but there track record is no better to say the least..

[edit on 15amu22007 by DaleGribble]




posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 02:10 AM
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Who is to tell anyone that string theory does not exist? Can you see it can you quantify it? Not to say one day we may. If people have a belief it is no ones right to ridicule or demonise it. I actually feel quite sad for people that think they are going to rot in their 'meat' bodies with no ongoing soul or consciousness. What a life that must be, and most telling how their internal frustration is constantly illicited upon the forum in angry, bitter, challenges and bum biting.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 02:54 AM
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reply to post by jpm1602
 


The people that see death as the end aren't the ones kidding themself and aren't the sad ones. The sad ones are those who believe they will get rewarded for believing in god.

And what do you mean 'what a life'? Life is now, not after you die... =.=
Do you remember anything before you were born? No because you wern't alive then, and after you die you aren't going to live as well.

Although we can't prove string theory now, it supports alot of laws and solves a lot of things.

reply to post by DaleGribble
 

Fine i'll list the evidence for Big Bang, since you say there's none:

They calculated the temperature of the radiation to be -3k and that's exactly what it was, from just using Big Bang.

Other evidence:
1 The universe is expanding
2. nucleosynthesis of the light elements
3. The formation of galaxies and large scale structures

[edit on 17-9-2007 by AncientVoid]

[edit on 17-9-2007 by AncientVoid]

[edit on 17-9-2007 by AncientVoid]



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 04:16 AM
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i dont know how to quote external sources yet but wiki uses the phrases prediction, faith and theroy when discussing bbn.

en.wikipedia.org...

give me alittle longer and i will review the other info you have offered me im about to get off work and have to do some paper work before i go..

ok i took some more time to investigate another one or your points. i cant argue the expanding universe. you got me there.

this didnt take as long as i first thought. one again words like "assumptions" on the big bang.

en.wikipedia.org...
im gonna look into this more though. ill give you the benifit of the doubt and entertain myself with this for a while...

[edit on 15amu42007 by DaleGribble]

[edit on 15amu42007 by DaleGribble]



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 04:32 AM
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Originally posted by DaleGribble
ok i took some more time to investigate another one or your points. i cant argue the expanding universe. you got me there.

this didnt take as long as i first thought. one again words like "assumptions" on the big bang.


What are you trying to say here? That the expanding universe is an assumption?



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 04:51 AM
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no i should have taken more time on that one. i refering to the big bang once again. and for the record im just passing on the info i have read. as i said i would like to look into this more. i have verry little knowledge of these theroies. i know just enough to about the big bang to not be convinced. so ill study it more.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 07:07 AM
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Originally posted by zerotime

Originally posted by goose

Originally posted by zerotime

Atheists shout that religion is controlling the masses while acting like they know everything about everything.


No of course you never said that all atheists act the same way or believe the same thing.


Again, you are taking things out of context. My original statements were:

The worst atheists I have met have been 100 times worse than the worse Christian I have met. Atheists shout that religion is controlling the masses while acting like they know everything about everything. The saddest part to me is that in order to keep up the hardline appearance of atheism they cannot even ask themselves the basic human philosophical question, "what if?"

Looking at it now I should have used THEY instead of the word ATHEISTS at the beginning of the sentence you quoted because that whole paragraph is describing the extreme atheists that I have met. It was 4AM in the morning when I wrote it but it seems obvious to me so either you are misreading what I said on accident or on purpose. Either way, I guess you are out of points to discuss huh?

[edit on 17-9-2007 by zerotime]


LOL Hardly, when you write that every atheist you know is a certain way and that they are 100 times worse than the worst christian you know it clearly leads the reader to interpret that you don't think too highly of atheists, and though you say that you are basing your writings only on the ones you have met, you definitely do no leave your reader thinking you expect to meet any in the future different than the ones you have already met.

Look I have no problem with someone believing in religion if they want to believe the lie their free to do so, what I have a problem with christians is the same problem I have with all religions and that is when they want to incorporate religion into the government and tax supported institutions.




[edit on 17-9-2007 by goose]



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by goose
LOL Hardly, when you write that every atheist you know is a certain way and that they are 100 times worse than the worst christian you know it clearly leads the reader to interpret that you don't think too highly of atheists, and though you say that you are basing your writings only on the ones you have met, you definitely do no leave your reader thinking you expect to meet any in the future different than the ones you have already met.


Hey look kids, Big Ben, Parliament.

I don't understand why you have trouble reading what I wrote but where in the world did I say that EVERY Athiest that I know acts a certain way? For the last time and I'm not discussing it anymore I said the WORST Atheists. I have already said that I know atheists who are laid back and do not care about any of this. I also know many people who claim to be atheists but are actually more agnostic.

This thread was started by talking about the worst Christians, which I believe is true. But as these threads tend to go on ATS, instead of labeling this group bad and separating it from the rest of the normal Christians walking around the posters seem to have an agenda of hating and lumping all Christians together. By that model the worst ATS posters would how ATS is rated. If someone says, hey I am a Christian and then goes and robs a bank that doesn't mean that all Christians are bank robbers right? No, because that would be stupid.

So, since we are talking about the worst of the worst here, I pointed out that the worst atheists that have met are much more ridiculous to deal with than the worst Christians that I have met AND I have met some really bad Christians.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 05:01 PM
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Originally posted by zerotime

I don't understand why you have trouble reading what I wrote but where in the world did I say that EVERY Athiest that I know acts a certain way? For the last time and I'm not discussing it anymore I said the WORST Atheists. I have already said that I know atheists who are laid back and do not care about any of this. I also know many people who claim to be atheists but are actually more agnostic.


I want you to know personally that I really wasn't offended by what you said. I saw it just how you are describing it now. I'm very much Agnostic, because I feel a tug at my heart, but this is a topic for another time.


This thread was started by talking about the worst Christians, which I believe is true. But as these threads tend to go on ATS, instead of labeling this group bad and separating it from the rest of the normal Christians walking around the posters seem to have an agenda of hating and lumping all Christians together. By that model the worst ATS posters would how ATS is rated. If someone says, hey I am a Christian and then goes and robs a bank that doesn't mean that all Christians are bank robbers right? No, because that would be stupid.


It was not my intent to label all Christians as bad or even misled. Your first sentence was my intent. Really I wanted it to be more politically based, but my politic threads always get moved to BTS.


So, since we are talking about the worst of the worst here, I pointed out that the worst atheists that have met are much more ridiculous to deal with than the worst Christians that I have met AND I have met some really bad Christians.


Agreed. I understand completely, the worst I have met are Muslim. I'm not saying all Muslims are bad!

I have decided to not participate in the religion threads for awhile. I started out just asking questions, and now it seems to be a battle over several threads, that quite frankly I'm ashamed of. I'm not saying one side is right and the other wrong.

Something just happened to me, we will call it a gift or somebody passing something forward. This was completely unexpected, but I'm ever so greatfull for it. One of the loads I was bearing, has been lifted by someones Love for me, no strings attached. This act of kindness givin to me was from a Christian, and some of the anger [anger towards god and with members here] I had is gone, maybe not gone but faded. Continuing posting just doesn't sit right with me right now, unless it remains very civil.

No I didn't get born again, in case you were wondering....


But politics is fair game and I'm ready to rumble!!!


[edit on 17-9-2007 by LDragonFire]



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 05:24 PM
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Zerotime I wasn't trying to give you a hard time, and I am sorry I made you feel that way. I was just trying to explain how I interpreted what you said, not trying to criticize you.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 05:36 PM
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First,
YOU attacked all atheists :


Originally posted by zerotime
The worst atheists I have met have been 100 times worse than the worse Christian I have met. Atheists shout that religion is controlling the masses while acting like they know everything about everything.


Then,
YOU say this :


Originally posted by zerotime
Geez, I must have hit a nerve with the atheists. First off, you guys keep saying Christians do this, Christians do that, Christians say this...Which Denominations of Christians are you talking about and where you are getting your numbers and statistics?


What a hypocrite !


Iasion



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by zerotime
That certainly doesn't mean that all 2 billion Christians act or believe the same way.


But yet YOU attacked ALL atheists as if THEY all acted the same.

What incredible hypocrisy !


Iasion



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by zerotime
All rational Christians question their faith as do members of other religions. If you look at the most recent revelations of Mother Teresa, maybe the most piest Christian of our times, she questioned her faith for 50 years.


Very funny.

In fact Mother Teresa was an evil witch who LIKED people to suffer because she thought it was good for their souls - that is what SHE said, and that is what her actions show :

She MADE her inmates suffer :
* she refused them ANY visitors from friends and family
* she refused them pain-killers - people DIEING in agony.
* she refised them new hypodermic needles - her staff had to sharpen OLD needles
* she refused them facilities such as elevators
* she made them eat left-over food begged from local shops
* she sent all the donations to Rome - spent little on her in-mates

She lied and cheated :
* she took money from dictator Papa Doc whole stole it from his poor people - those who Teresa was meant to be helping
* she took stolen money from Keating the thief
* she had her staff SECRETLY baptise non-Christians as Christians without their consent just before they died

But,
when SHE needed treatment, she went to the most expensive clinic in Switzerland, while her inmates suffered with care from the Dark Ages.

Many of her nuns left in horror and have exposed her evil.

Of course apologists like zerotime won't even know of all this and will reject it out of hand.

I encourage readers to check the facts about Mother Teresa - she was an evil cheating witch who CAUSED suffering.


Iasion



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 05:51 PM
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Originally posted by zerotime
I never lumped any Atheists together.


Yes you did.

Right here on page 1 :

"Atheists shout that religion is controlling the masses while acting like they know everything about everything."

So,
not only are you are hypocrite, you are a liar as well.

Here you are, defending Christians against charges of lieing, and you can't stop yourself from LIEING yourself - incredible !

You are a perfect example zerotime, it only took you a few posts to start the lies we often see from apologists.

Well done.


Iasion


[edit on 17-9-2007 by Iasion]



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 06:01 PM
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Originally posted by zerotime
Atheists shout that religion is controlling the masses while acting like they know everything about everything.


This statement of YOURS lumps all atheists together.


Originally posted by zerotime
Looking at it now I should have used THEY instead of the word ATHEISTS at the beginning of the sentence you quoted because that whole paragraph is describing the extreme atheists that I have met.


Right.
So now you admit you were wrong - you used words which DO MEAN ALL atheists. Now you try to make excuses for YOUR words.


Originally posted by zerotime
It was 4AM in the morning when I wrote it but it seems obvious to me so either you are misreading what I said on accident or on purpose. Either way, I guess you are out of points to discuss huh?


No,
We did NOT mis-read.
YOU it seems, MIS-WROTE, now you want to blame US.
Well, no-one is fooled, zerotime - we all saw you lie.

What a dishonest hypocrite you are !
We correctly read your words - which lumped all atheists together.

Now,
instead of admitting YOU were wrong (we all no apologists cannot EVER admit they were wrong) - instead, you blame US for not reading what you MEANT to say !

You are hoist on your own petard, now you wriggle and squirm to avoid admitting you were wrong, and then to cap it all off you LIED about it, then tried to blame us for not realising what you REALLY meant to write!

Such hypocrisy, such dishonesty.

Exactly what we have come to expect from apologists all too often.
Exactly what this post is talking about.

The LIES that apologists like you, zerotime, cannot help themselves from spouting.

Great work - you have proved the OP correct - many Christians just can't help lieing.


Iasion


[edit on 17-9-2007 by Iasion]



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 06:05 PM
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Originally posted by zerotime
...where in the world did I say that EVERY Athiest that I know acts a certain way?


Right here :


Atheists shout that religion is controlling the masses while acting like they know everything about everything.


Exactly the sort of phrase that you attacked others for using when it applied to Christians.

You are a hypocrite.
Now, you lie to avoid admitting it.

A perfect example of the lieing for Jesus as described in the OP.


Iasion



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 06:56 PM
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Originally posted by Iasion

You are a hypocrite.
Now, you lie to avoid admitting it.

A perfect example of the lieing for Jesus as described in the OP.


Iasion


It was already explained. I didn't lie about it. Too bad you don't believe me. I don't care. It was nice of you to believe I am a Christian though. I don't remember saying that I was but hey, I'm sure you'll try to make that up too.


[edit on 17-9-2007 by zerotime]



posted on Sep, 18 2007 @ 12:29 AM
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Originally posted by Iasion
In fact Mother Teresa was an evil witch who LIKED people to suffer because she thought it was good for their souls - that is what SHE said, and that is what her actions show :

She MADE her inmates suffer :
* she refused them ANY visitors from friends and family
* she refused them pain-killers - people DIEING in agony.
* she refised them new hypodermic needles - her staff had to sharpen OLD needles
* she refused them facilities such as elevators
* she made them eat left-over food begged from local shops
* she sent all the donations to Rome - spent little on her in-mates

She lied and cheated :
* she took money from dictator Papa Doc whole stole it from his poor people - those who Teresa was meant to be helping
* she took stolen money from Keating the thief
* she had her staff SECRETLY baptise non-Christians as Christians without their consent just before they died

But,
when SHE needed treatment, she went to the most expensive clinic in Switzerland, while her inmates suffered with care from the Dark Ages.

Many of her nuns left in horror and have exposed her evil.

Of course apologists like zerotime won't even know of all this and will reject it out of hand.

I encourage readers to check the facts about Mother Teresa - she was an evil cheating witch who CAUSED suffering.
Iasion


I wouldn't say "witch", but I've heard worse stories of supposedly christian nuns. I had even considered becoming one. Jesus kept me from that.
It's sad how many of them, inprisoned in convents or the priests in monasteries, without outside intervention, are tortured souls and some become torturers! Not even the F.B.I. can investigate a convent or monastery because they are vatican properties.
The doctrine of oblations, flagelations is not Jesus' true religion.



posted on Sep, 18 2007 @ 12:59 AM
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Originally posted by zerotime
It was already explained. I didn't lie about it. Too bad you don't believe me. I don't care. It was nice of you to believe I am a Christian though. I don't remember saying that I was but hey, I'm sure you'll try to make that up too.


Then tell me where are Christians lumped together like you said before and i would respond the same way you did. "You read it wrong"...



posted on Sep, 18 2007 @ 11:50 AM
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Originally posted by AncientVoid
Then tell me where are Christians lumped together like you said before and i would respond the same way you did. "You read it wrong"...


I do not recall you doing it and I don't think you can speak for others unless you are a mind reader. But I get it already. Can't win this argument on the points so attack the guy defending Christians and his one line mistake. It was my fault. I screwed up and I wish that I didn't. If I would have been a little clearer headed at 4 in the morning I probably wouldn't have made that mistake and then you guys would be out of luck because so far that's the only thing you got in this thread.



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