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Navy Submarine Base Under the Nevada Desert?

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posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 01:29 AM
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Over the past 20 years I have heard stories of a huge U.S. Navy submarine base under the desert in Hawthorne Nevada.

During that time I have driven from Las Vegas to Reno many times and was always intrigued at the guard gate and sign just before entering the town of Hawthorne. (Hawthorne is about 5 hours drive from Las Vegas and about two and a half hours drive from Reno.)

It used to read ‘Naval Undersea Warfare Training Center’. Today it reads ‘Naval Undersea Warfare Center’. They must have made the change in the past year or so. Maybe longer.

Hawthorne Nevada is a U.S. Army Depot where ammunition is made, tested and stored. Endless rows of ammunition bunkers dot both sides of the road.

Just to the north of Hawthorne is Walker Lake. The East Walker river drains into it and over the past 20 years has become shallower and shallower. The lake is about 18 miles long and about 8 miles wide the longer axis running north and south.

It can’t be very deep. I am not good at judging lake depths, maybe 100 feet? 150 feet? Certainly wouldn’t seem deep enough for a Ohio, Virginia, Seawolf, Los Angeles. Maybe that little nuclear powered Fast Attack Sub. But I know nothing about submarines.

And the lake itself certainly wouldn’t be big enough or deep enough to train for Undersea Warfare. Or so it would seem.

There are stories that California and Nevada sit on a shelf underneath which lies an eastern portion of the Pacific Ocean. Maybe the Pacific Ocean extends under that shelf to Hawthorne Nevada (and even further?).

Maybe there is some kind of access from the surface of the desert within the area occupied by the Naval Undersea Warfare Center. And maybe if you go deep enough there is a huge part of the Pacific Ocean in which the Navy conducts Undersea Warfare training.

Impossible? Improbable? So it would seem.

But let’s assume that it might be true. There would have to be a route from the Pacific Ocean to Hawthorne. If we take a set of dividers and place one end at Hawthorne Nevada and place the other end at the closest portion of the Pacific Ocean we would find that it is in Monterey Bay, just south of San Francisco. Just north of Fort Ord.

The distance is roughly about 212 statute miles.

Now let’s also assume that there is traffic both to and from Monterey Bay and Hawthorne Nevada. We would probably have to have to separate channels, one for each direction of travel. If it’s a sea how can we separate these channels? I don’t know.

Below is a chart on which I have drawn two lines representing these channels between Monterey Bay and Hawthorne. If a submarine where to make 33 knots the trip would take about five and a half hours.



Here is a link to the Naval Undersea Warfare Center in Keyport Washington.

www-keyport.kpt.nuwc.navy.mil...

Here are a couple of excerpts from that site.


Our main facility is located at Keyport, Washington, in the Puget Sound region near the major components of the Fleet we support. We have Detachments located near our Pacific Fleet customers in Pearl Harbor, Hawaii and San Diego, California. Fleet testing and logistics sites are located at Nanoose, British Columbia, and Hawthorne, Nevada.



Although NUTEC provides test and evaluation services wherever needed, the test center is focused at NUWC Division Keyport, Washington, building upon a foundation of over 90 years of undersea vehicle expertise. Here, in the protected waters of Washington’s Puget Sound, near Seattle, NUTEC offers extensive range instrumentation and support services at test sites at Keyport and in Dabob Bay and the adjoining waters in Hood Canal. NUTEC also provides a variety of portable test systems and distance support capabilities to facilitate unmanned vehicle testing at other Navy range facilities and at sites of operational interest world-wide.

Here is an excerpt from the Branton files:


The Underground Empire
( Branton -- File No. 008 )

In March of 1980, John J. Williams, a New Mexico "Patriot" who published the anti-Communist oriented "REBEL MAGAZINE" (at the time available from: Consumertronics Co., c/o John J. Williams. Pres., 2011 Crescent Dr., P.O. Drawer 537., Alamogardo, NM 88310) revealed some incredible details on an alleged subterranean system which the Navy had been exploring below the western United States. The report appeared in issue No. 6 of his magazine, and was later reproduced in the Fall, 1985 (#164) issue of SEARCH Magazine, at the time edited by Marjorie Palmer, widow of the late Ray Palmer.

The article, titled 'CALIFORNIA FLOATS ON OCEAN?', revealed the following:

"Some time ago, I heard a man on a TV interview-show briefly mention that parts of California and neighboring states are floating on the Pacific Ocean! He was a high ranking Naval officer on a top- secret nuclear submarine that has been (and is) exploring and mapping these enormous caverns and passage-ways underneath the West for over 10 years now.

"A friend of mine finally tracked the man down. He is now living quietly in retirement and asked that no details pointing to him be revealed as he does not want publicity and government attention. After writing this article, I destroyed my files on him. This is his story..."

Williams explains that not "all" of the areas in question are actually "resting" or "floating" on the ocean, however there are allegedly many subterranean cavities below the western U.S., and they are not limited to California, and many of them consist of very large water-filled aqua-systems. These have been explored via nuclear submarines to several hundred miles inland, particularly in the region of southern California and the southern Oregon - northern California area. Williams continues:

"...When he retired several years ago, in spite of about 10 years of intensive Naval study, the Navy had not gotten even a handle on their exacts and dimensions. Today, the story may be different.

"He makes the following statements from his observations:

"1. The passageways are labyrinthine with widths from a few to thousands of feet (caverns), averaging roughly about a 100 feet.

"2. Much like dry caverns do, heights and depths vary a great deal and in some cases, two or more caverns or passageways pass over or under each other at different depths.

"3. Most of the entrances lie just off the Continental Shelf (ie. in the Continental Slope - Branton).

"4. Most of the entrances are too small for submarine investigation; and many that are large enough lie in waters that are too deep.

"5. Some of the caverns (in S. California) are topped with oil while some others are filled with gases believed to approximate our atmosphere (in very ancient times).

"6. The San Joaquin Valley is essentially a portion of the original cavernous area that collapsed eons ago due to it's sheer weight.

"7. What is being passed off as the 'San Andreas Fault' are large, unsupported chambers that are in the process of collapsing. When the BIG ONE finally hits, many scientists in the know believe that most of California will break off like a cold Hershey bar and slide into the ocean! (it is postulated by some that an ancient land-mass which some believe may have been connected to what is now California, broke off and sunk into the ocean during an ancient cataclysm - Branton)

"8. (We are deleting this section due to the possibility of undue stress and fear which may result from it's disclosure. Also, because of recent international events which may have resulted in a solution to this problem. We will merely state that it involves a scenario similar to that which was portrayed in a James Bond movie, and which concerned underground caverns, silicon valley, nuclear weapons, and the San Andreas fault - Branton).

"9. A WELL-KNOWN U.S. nuclear submarine lost its way in these passages and disappeared forever. It was reported to have been lost IN OPEN SEA ELSEWHERE to keep the American people in total ignorance and to justify an enormous pay-off to an eccentric U.S. billionaire (who died in recent years) for providing the fictitious "recovery" effort. "I have no reason to doubt the man. I can't tell for sure whether or not these caverns and passageways exist or to their extents. The story does sound a bit fantastic but I have no reason to doubt the man. I have seen copies of documentation that at least prove that he was a high ranking Naval officer (nuclear submarine duty) and a distinguished scientist. In fact, his scientific background and reputation are impeccable. He definitely cannot be labeled as a crackpot, lunatic or publicity-seeker. I would very much like more information on this topic..."

After further inquiries to Mr. Williams on the part of 'inner earth' researchers, Williams responded with the following when asked whether or not he had received any replies to his request for more information about the alleged passageways below California: "Since publishing our article on the vast cavern network under much of California, we have received many responses and inquiries. Some of these responses appear to be knowledgeable sources. Note that the material sent to us for this article was written by someone of very high repute whose credentials I personally checked out.

Due to an agreement with him, I cannot reveal his identity. "One response was from a retired (conventional submarine duty? - Branton) submarine commander, who according to him, spent many years in the waters off California. He stated that the caverns do NOT exist. "Another response was from an anonymous person who cited unpublished oil company seismographical data, and stated, 'Although most of the caverns you depict in your drawing are smaller, larger or located somewhat differently than the actual caverns, you are essentially correct... My information is more up-to-date than what you apparently relied upon.' He (or she) did not supply any maps to pin down our differences, just some written descriptions. However, some knowledgeable person could probably deduce his (or her) overall 'map' from the voluminous seismographical data sent. I am in the process of looking for this input; it's been several years now and it may have all been thrown out... Incidentally, the oil company seismic data had much data round the Fresno area if that helps any. "One incident which tends to confirm the fact that California is in fact floating on the ocean was a story which made the headlines in recent years.

This incident involved an oil discovery beneath Long Beach, California. When oil companies began pumping oil out of the ground beneath Long Beach it was soon learned that the entire city BEGAN SINKING INTO THE OCEAN! "It sank up to 26 feet and dikes had to be built to keep out the water. The problem is (temporarily) being rectified by 'water injection'--i.e. pumping an equivalent amount of WATER into the ground to the amount of oil and water taken out, in order to keep the city AFLOAT!"

One thing which may be of interest in connection with Mr. Williams' account was a statement which was made by a prominent California Bigfoot investigator by the name of Virginia Louise Swanson, who has done a good deal of study on caves and their connections to the Bigfoot phenomena. She refers to these caverns in the following words: "...Somewhere I got the idea that a big portion of Death Valley is located on a shelf of FALSE bedrock. A certain type of earthquake would collapse all of it down to an enormous series of caverns that would open up into another Grand Canyon." According to our knowledge, the only nuclear submarines ever to disappear under mysterious circumstances were the U.S.S THRESHER and the U.S.S. SCORPION. It is uncertain whether the retired
Navy Officer who John J. Williams spoke of was referring to the THRESHER or the SCORPION, although the disappearance of the Thresher probably caused more publicity. The Thresher was the LEAD SHIP or 'Flag' ship in the world's most advanced class of nuclear attack submarines. She was designed to operate deeper and more silently than any of her predecessors and was also endowed with significant advances in sonar equipment, in noise reduction, and in fire-control. All in all, she was the most advanced international submarine in the world at the time of her disappearance and would have been an ideal choice for a top- secret mission such as the exploration of the caverns mentioned by John Williams' source.

On April 10, 1963 (according to official reports) the Thresher, under the command of Lt. Commander John W. Harvey, USN, with a total of 129 men (comprised of the crew, civilian technicians, and observers) disappeared without explanation. NOT A SINGLE TRACE or clue as to the fate of the craft, or it's occupants, were ever recovered: no oil slicks, radiation, floating debris, or similar signs of wreckage were ever seen. It is interesting to note that almost all of the reports at the time stated the ship had "disappeared," or was "lost," not "sunk!" One woman whose husband was on the ill-fated ship reported her belief that her husband was still alive. Theologically speaking, the possibility of a long-distance connection or "communion" on a deep, emotional level between a husband and a wife should not necessarily be consigned to the realm of the occult or "psychic" phenomena. Many religions believe that the very spiritual natures of a husband and a wife are united upon the consummation of a marriage, and thus they become, as Christian teachings say, "one flesh".

The actual words of this woman, who was interviewed by Will Carson and Jeannie Joy--two writers devoted to pursuing strange events--shortly after the Thresher incident, were as follows: "My husband was on the submarine Thresher when it disappeared. I don't consider myself a widow. I don't believe my husband is dead. No, it's not a matter of just not being able to believe it, to accept reality; I just can't get over the conviction that he's still alive somewhere. I love my husband very much. I know he loved--loves me. We were very close. We could always tell when something was wrong with each other. Intuition, I guess. I should have felt something the instant there was trouble, if he was really in serious trouble and knew it--a matter of life and death--but I didn't." "What do you believe really happened?" Carson and Joy asked the attractive young woman.

"Most people think I'm crazy when I say this, but I believe the Thresher was captured." "By whom?" "I can't say for sure, but there WAS a Russian submarine spotted near there that day (that is, near where it REPORTEDLY vanished 220 miles off Boston harbor)--only I can't imagine how even the Russians could CAPTURE a vessel like the Thresher without leaving the slightest evidence!"

The following account, concerning an area just east of BISHOP (OWENS VALLEY), CALIFORNIA, was related by Val Valerian in his 'LEADING EDGE' Newsletter, Dec. 1989 - Jan. 1990 issue. The article, titled: 'DEEP SPRING'S, CALIFORNIA', stated: "Deep Springs, California is an area that is becoming known as the site for very strange events. According to the information released both on the air on KVEG-AM and from other sources, the area is full of strange people wandering around in black suits. There have also been rumors that there is an underground facility in the area. Checking with gravity anomaly maps proved that there are large cavities under the ground in that area. The wildest claims relative to the area have stated that alien lifeforms are being released there... Deep Springs Lake has been probed and it appears bottomless. Divers have traveled along an underground river 27 miles toward the Las Vegas area before having to turn around." (This 'river' would probably have been a 'partially' water-filled cave with a large stream or river flowing through it, rather than an entirely underwater passage, since 27 miles would undoubtedly be entirely out of the question if it were all underwater travel, with present diving technology - Branton).


Last Tuesday I drove from Reno to Las Vegas after attending the Bay Area UFO Expo. As I drove through Hawthorne I came upon the entrance to the Naval Undersea Warfare Center which is on the north side of the road I pulled over to the right and took out my camera to get a picture of the sign. As I rolled down the window and lifted my camera I heard a bunch of shouting and guards waving their arms from the guard shack.

I pulled across the road to the entrance just short of the shack a lady in Army uniform came over and told me I couldn’t take pictures. I mentioned to her that I was just going to take a picture of the sign which was less than ten feet from the highway. She told me I couldn’t take pictures anywhere around there.

I asked her if I could sign up for a tour. She responded vehemently in the negative. She then advised me that she should call the Military Police to confiscate my camera. I told her that I hadn’t had time to take a picture and that I was just happened to be leaving at that moment. She waved me to turn around and jotted down my car license number. I was going to ask her if there were any submarines parked underground but she was Army and I figured she probably wouldn’t have known.

So. What do you think? Is there a vast underground sea under California and Nevada with tributary rivers running in various directions? Maybe one that goes to Las Vegas?

Is there a possibility that the Navy does operate submarines from Monterey Bay via an underground sea which extends underneath the San Joaquin Valley, then under the Sierra Nevada mountain range to a Naval Undersea Warfare Center deep below the Nevada desert in Hawthorne Nevada?

Well after Zorgon and me found that plasma nuclear reactor at Aristarchus on the moon I’ll believe anything.




posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 01:39 AM
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From what I understand Las Vegas does sit over a large underground aquifer if the rumors are to be believed. Also a couple of fault line run through the city. If the aquifers are interconnected and the ground in the southwest is a honeycomb of passages maybe that explains some of the eathquakes.

Of course the place could just be testing the small submersibles such as the Navy Rescue teams use and those that the SEAL teams use.



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 01:47 AM
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Could be Tahoe has some part in it too. Weird about the guard.



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 01:56 AM
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Walker Lake is one of only 6 freshwater terminal lakes in the world. It is freshwater. It has dropped over 140 feet due to the fact that the river is overappropriated by 140% and the waterways that have fed it in the past have been diverted for agriculture. If it were indeed attached to the Pacific Ocean I feel the salinity level would be indicative of a brakish environment rather than that of fresh water.



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 01:57 AM
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Originally posted by antar



Could be Tahoe has some part in it too. Weird about the guard.



WOW! Antar you just blew my mind! Yes. Many years ago a Navy friend of mine told me about a hidden Navy base in Lake Tahoe. I had completely forgotten about that. He also told me about the "tubes", the Navy underground transportation system. He told me that the techs that worked in the tubes were called "tubemoles". Thanks for the memory jog!



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 01:59 AM
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Originally posted by infinite8



Walker Lake is one of only 6 freshwater terminal lakes in the world. It is freshwater. It has dropped over 140 feet due to the fact that the river is overappropriated by 140% and the waterways that have fed it in the past have been diverted for agriculture. If it were indeed attached to the Pacific Ocean I feel the salinity level would be indicative of a brakish environment rather than that of fresh water.


Thanks for the information infinite8. I wanted to make it clear I didn't think that the lake was connected in any way to the underground ocean.



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 02:39 AM
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well this is interesting in many ways. I remember going to the Grand Canyon caverns last year and they said it ran some 20 mile to Grand Canyon the Colorado. I sure there are many cavities dotting the desert floor, possibly leading to one another in a vast wedding of underground channels.
I just can't help to think that there all connected.

I'm here in Laughlin area and frequently drive back home to the high desert from the high desert, lol. Driving on interstate 40 I can't help but wonder how many undiscovered holes there are in the desert. There Mitchell's caverns but those are small but whose to say that a little bit of dynamite couldn't open it up to something even bigger. Its a big desert with many possibilities.

I wouldn't dough the possibility of 200 mile+ underground river and channels.
Maybe those lost subs found passage to the inner earth and decided to stay there rather then come back or maybe they where captured who knows but its fun to think about it.


Time to Google map some of these places and see if there's any strange things going on. Thanks john.



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 12:16 PM
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I made that trip from Reno to Vegas in July and this lake made me wonder about what goes on there because of the military presence. I got some pics of the lake but none of the military areas. I think another road trip is going to happen and i'll call ahead and ask for a tour.

As far as the idea of underground caverns goes, it is possible. I would think if this lake was connected to the ocean it would have drained out because of its higher elevation as compared to sea level.

If it is connected to any other bodies of underground water it must be in a closed system since it would also drain out if those other bodies of water were at a lower elevation and exposed to the atmosphere. This makes me wonder about the chances of these caverns being found due to construction or earthquakes in the area.

I do find it strange that a Naval Warfare Center is in that area, even though it is in the middle of nowhere that would help keep the public away and make it easier to secure. I didn't remember seeing any flightline areas when I drove through, so am I supposed to think that everyone that trains there is driven in? How far away are the closest airports? This is why I like Nevada and hope to live there one day.



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 12:27 PM
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Great Job John!

Dave



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 12:50 PM
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The only problem with the quoted statement above being that the tone is, sadly, fairly sensationalist, and that the USS Thresher was indeed located and evidence recovered enough to re-construct what happened to it.

Not to say the whole theory is bunk, i rather like it in fact, but whomever wrote that quoted statement should learn when to stick to the facts and not try to add a little bit more spice to grab attention.



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 12:50 PM
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I am glad to see this thread. I have wondered about this for a number of years. When I was about fifteen my family went on a camping vacation from Columbus, Ohio to southern Michigan. I do not remember where we were, but there was a string of small lakes that extended for twenty miles or so along the highway. I thought they were flooded borrow pits left over from the road construction. However when we were fishing one of them I noticed small white cottony looking creatures swimming in the water. Imagine my surprise when I scooped some up in my hand and discovered they were jelly fish about the size of my thumbnail. How did jellyfish get there? Is there a tunnel connection to the ocean? It is easier for me to believe in small tunnels though than a huge cavern that a modern sub can get lost in. I still do not understand how granite can float on water. Wouldn't all the dirt turn to mud and sink to the bottom?



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 12:58 PM
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I have a slight issue with the document quoted. USS Thresher was found in six pieces after a detailed search. She broke up after going below crush depth. There was also wreckage found before the main debris field was found that was positively identified as could have ONLY come from Thresher.

The Scorpion wreckage was found as well. The Navy Accident board determined that one of her own runaway torpedoes caused the sinking, but there is some evidence that she was sunk by a Soviet sub in revenge for the K-19 sinking off Hawaii earlier in the year. K-19 was apparently taken over by either a KGB or GRU special operations team who attempted to launch a missile at Pearl Harbor in an attempt to provoke a war between the US and China. The PAL device prevented the launch and cause the sinking of the submarine. However, at the time it was thought that it was sunk by an American submarine, and there is some evidence that a Soviet sub commander decided to take revenge for the sinking.

Scorpion was found in two large pieces near the Azores in approximately 10,000 feet of water. The forward hull section created a trench on impact and is largely intact, and the aft section has telescoped into itself. The sail is laying on the bottom near the wreckage.



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by NJ Mooch



I didn't remember seeing any flightline areas when I drove through, so am I supposed to think that everyone that trains there is driven in?



Fallon NAS is about and hour and a half up the road. I believe there is taxi service there. :



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by D.E.M.



The only problem with the quoted statement above being that the tone is, sadly, fairly sensationalist, and that the USS Thresher was indeed located and evidence recovered enough to re-construct what happened to it.



I am not aware of any personnel other than Navy personnel who would verify that the Thresher was indeed located and evidence recovered. The Thresher recovery story could be just more pure Navy propanganda.

So lets just leave it that. "The Navy claims the U.S.S. Thresher was located and they claim that enough evidnece was recovered to determine the cause of the accident."

As far as someone 'spicing' up a story I don't think that story needed spicing up.

Thanks for the post.



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 01:14 PM
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Originally posted by Zaphod58




I have a slight issue with the document quoted. USS Thresher was found in six pieces after a detailed search. She broke up after going below crush depth. There was also wreckage found before the main debris field was found that was positively identified as could have ONLY come from Thresher.

The Scorpion wreckage was found as well. The Navy Accident board determined that one of her own runaway torpedoes caused the sinking, but there is some evidence that she was sunk by a Soviet sub in revenge for the K-19 sinking off Hawaii earlier in the year. K-19 was apparently taken over by either a KGB or GRU special operations team who attempted to launch a missile at Pearl Harbor in an attempt to provoke a war between the US and China. The PAL device prevented the launch and cause the sinking of the submarine. However, at the time it was thought that it was sunk by an American submarine, and there is some evidence that a Soviet sub commander decided to take revenge for the sinking.

Scorpion was found in two large pieces near the Azores in approximately 10,000 feet of water. The forward hull section created a trench on impact and is largely intact, and the aft section has telescoped into itself. The sail is laying on the bottom near the wreckage.



Thanks for the post Z. I just wanted to make sure that you understand that you are quoting pure government propaganda and there has been no independent investigation into either disappearance. Not that there should have been an independent investigation, just that there never was.

We rely on the government to give us the truth or at least the closest truth they can manage without actually telling us what actually happened.

But thanks again for the propanganda, it is greatly appreciated.



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 01:18 PM
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There were many civilian personnel involved in the search and recovery. The Woods Hole Oceanographic Center was a big part of the recovery efforts. Parts that were etched with serial number that were installed in the Thresher, and couldn't be removed without tearing the hull apart were found. There was actually a LOT of wreckage found. They say it looked like a junkyard on the bottom when they found the wreck. There are pictures of the wreckage that can be found, so unless the navy secretly built and sank another submarine pretending to be the Thresher, the evidence is there that the Thresher is right where they said it was, sitting on the bottom on eternal patrol.



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 01:20 PM
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You're right John. I don't know what the hell I was thinking trying to bring some real information to this thread. I forgot that anything that might be true is pure propaganda and shouldn't be trusted by anyone. Silly me!
Move along. Nothing to see here.



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 01:22 PM
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Wasent another US Navy sub sank by the Russians? I think it was the USS Scorpion.



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 01:25 PM
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Yes and no. Read the post I put up about the loss of the two. There's some evidence that it was sunk by a Soviet sub in response to the loss of the K-19, which was lost in the failed attempt to launch a nuclear attack on Pearl Harbor. But there's nothing conclusive that has been found to date, and the official cause was that one of her own torpedoes activated, and she did a 180 degree turn in an attempt to deactivate it (thus causing the gyro to think that it was turning back towards the sub), and something happened to cause her to break up and sink.



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 01:59 PM
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I been alll over Nevada, from Reno here. I think the water wouldnt drain out to the ocean, because sea level has higher pressure then higher elevation would, so rules out posibility of it NOT connecting to the ocean if it goes deep to the ocean.

More then likely it connected to this ocean I think
www.livescience.com...


Scientists scanning the deep interior of Earth have found evidence of a vast water reservoir beneath eastern Asia that is at least the volume of the Arctic Ocean.


This is in Asia yes, but that does not rule out the fact we may/might also have one here in Nevada probably emcompassing other states, and maybe up into canada. I mean I watched one Al Fry vid where he talked about such things for an hour, and this was from the 70's !!!! so this is nothing new, its possible there is something out there. I need to track down the file and get a clip of where he talked about them, was weird similar to this.

John Lear do you remember al fry? lol






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