Allah is NOT Some Pagan Moon God

Coming from a steadfastly religious family partially rooted in Arabic culture I think I can say this:

Allah, the God of the Muslims following the Islamic faith is not some pagan moon god or any other pagan god.

From the Arabic speaking Christian perspective, Allah is God. Allah is the Holy Trinity. Allah is Jesus. Allah is the Holy Spirit. Allah is all that is divine.

From the Arabic speaking Jews, Allah is synonymous with Yahweh, the one and only God of the Hebrews.

And yes, somewhat separately, Allah is the Islamic all supreme being of the Islamic faiths.

While there are many things that set our faiths apart, there are many more that unite our faiths. I DON'T advocate some disingenuous union that means nothing, but I do think we should all emphasize our similarities over our differences. I think if we get cool minds and actually do that, we will all find we share much more than we disagree on.

Who said Allah is a pagan moon god?

It's the same god the Jews and the Christians worship. And the Sunnis and Shiites can't even agree on how to worship Allah, so how do you envision getting the three Abrahamic faiths to coalesce?

You know what I think about god(s). So I won't bore you with my opinion on the relative merits of each sect.

reply to post by djohnsto77


Oh, praise you! I was getting tired of hearing that lie propagated over and over ad nauseum. How they came up with it is beyond me, but the best part of it (actually the worst, but you know what I mean) is that they can have pages and pages of "proof" for that outrageous claim. Dear God, what is wrong with some people? Too much time?

MM: We start by sharing our similarities and knowing where the other is coming from. Forcing opinions down each others throat will only lead to resistance. At least that's how I see it.

Why does anyone argue over GOD?

You should watch this movie, because.... RELIGION IS MIND CONTROL



I think it's terribly sad that so many people hate and die over religion.

[edit on 8/31/2007 by CSkys]

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Coming from a steadfastly religious family partially rooted in Arabic culture I think I can say this:

Allah, the God of the Muslims following the Islamic faith is not some pagan moon god or any other pagan god.

Wellllllllll I beg to differ strongly . . .

My roommate several years ago--a descendant of Mohammed and a devout Muslim to well into his adult life . . . researched the issue quite extensively. He discovered from a diversity of solid historical sources that:

1. "allah" was the name of a demonic moon god prominent in that tribal group well before Mohammed was even born.

2. When Mohammed received his "revelations" he himself considered them likely to be from demons. His cohorts, friends, relatives, persuaded him otherwise and essentially encouraged him to co-opt allah as the sole surviving tribal god into a new religion AS A MEANS OF EMOTIONALLY ENERGIZING MASSES OF PEOPLE TOWARD POLITICAL AND GEOGRAPHIC CONQUEST. He thought that was a great idea.

3. BEFORE MOHAMMED WAS BORN, IN THE NAME OF THE DEMONIC MOON GOD ALLAH:

A) a pilgrimage was made to the meteorite with a walk around it 7 times.
B) stones were thrown at the devil.
C) a crescent was a key religious symbol.

There were some other interesting facts he discovered that I've forgotten.

But essentially "allah" is NOT the Almighty God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Now, I do believe that God Almighty is gracious and generous enough that IF people--including Muslims pray to "Allah" BELIEVING THAT THEY ARE PRAYING TO ALMIGHTY GOD--AND WITH ESSENTIALLY A HEART GENUINELY SEEKING ALMIGHTY GOD--God may well accommodate them in some way in His time.

On the whole, I do not believe He is real thrilled with the demonic moon god label AT ALL.

The historical record--FROM ISLAMIC SOURCES--is quite clear. There's nothing iffy or fuzzy about it.

The sources are not celebrated these days in Islamic circles for obvious reasons. But they have been considered accurate and authoritative for many hundreds of years.

reply to post by BO XIAN


And I beg to agree with you strongly.

There is a crescent moon on the masques for a reason.

History speaks for itself...

Originally posted by BO XIAN

3. BEFORE MOHAMMED WAS BORN, IN THE NAME OF THE DEMONIC MOON GOD ALLAH:

A) a pilgrimage was made to the meteorite with a walk around it 7 times.
B) stones were thrown at the devil.
C) a crescent was a key religious symbol.

that doesn't sound too demonic to me.

but anyway do you have any sources for this or justs your friend?

What is this another hit piece against pagans? By, no less, a member of a religion that has went around causing wars on top of wars. Islam, Christianity and Judaism, all three, have a much too horrendous history to rightly criticize any belief system.. Before you ask, NO, I'm not a pagan.. I just find it amusing that people from a religion that has caused little more than turmoil, find it incumbent upon themselves to try to disqualify or debase some other beliefs system that has really done nothing wrong, other than have different beliefs than the mainstream religions.



[edit on 31-8-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by ThaDewd

Originally posted by BO XIAN

A) a pilgrimage was made to the meteorite with a walk around it 7 times.
B) stones were thrown at the devil.
C) a crescent was a key religious symbol.

that doesn't sound too demonic to me.

I will email him about where to find the best sources. He's grown weary of trying to convince demonized Jihadi's and sympatheiszers of historical facts.

Doesn't sound too demoinc?

Hmmmmmm

1. Worshipping a meteorite is not exactly kosher behavior for those who Love God Almighty.

2. Have you looked into the eyes of some of the pics of many of the Jihadi's screaming with fists raised? Then, I suppose, it might take some discernment to see the evidence of the demonization.

3. Raping, hacking to pieces and sending off to suicide bomb YOUNG CHILDREN does NOT strike you as demonic??? What on earth would? Bar-B-Queing and serving them for dinner to their families? Oh, yeah, that wouldn't either. Right.

I could go on . . . the evidence is abundant . . . But I have a long list of tasks today.

Bo Xian, yes, I have looked into the eyes of these "jihadis" and see pure evil.. That is what is amusing to me, people from the three Abrahamic religions find it so easy to talk about how "evil" pagans, Hindus, Buddhists, et cetera, are when they have the devil standing on their own doorstep. It's knee slapping hilarious to me.



[edit on 31-8-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Allah is Jesus.

Negative. The Muhammadites will happily tell you that 'allah' has no son.

reply to post by BO XIAN

1. Worshipping a meteorite is not exactly kosher behavior for those who Love God Almighty.

Sorry, i forgot a pilgrimage was the same thing as worshiping

2. Have you looked into the eyes of some of the pics of many of the Jihadi's screaming with fists raised? Then, I suppose, it might take some discernment to see the evidence of the demonization.

I'd imagine they look the same as anyone's eyes fighting for their god.

3. Raping, hacking to pieces and sending off to suicide bomb YOUNG CHILDREN does NOT strike you as demonic??? What on earth would? Bar-B-Queing and serving them for dinner to their families? Oh, yeah, that wouldn't either. Right.

My memory must be going away cause I forgot all Muslims do that too.

99 Attributes of Allah

On the source of Muhammed’s revelation: (from Origin of Islam)

Origin of Islam: According to Islam
The origin of Islam is generally accredited to the prophet Muhammad but to the devout Muslim, Islam began long before Muhammad ever walked the earth. The Qur'an was dictated by Muhammad but, according to the Qur'an, it did not originate with Muhammad. The Qur'an testifies of itself that it was given by God through the angel Gabriel to the prophet Muhammad. "This is a revelation from the Lord of the universe. The Honest Spirit (Gabriel) came down with it, to reveal it into your heart that you may be one of the warners, in a perfect Arabic tongue" (Sura 26:192-195). "Say, 'Anyone who opposes Gabriel should know that he has brought down this (the Qur'an) into your heart, in accordance with God's will, confirming previous scriptures, and providing guidance and good news for the believers'" (Sura 2:97).

The honest spirit?
Spirit of Truth?

Hmmm…



AL = EL
God is God is God is God

The Arab nations are descendants from both Ishmael and Esau. Ishmael received a blessing from the same GOD of his father…

And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee! And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, with his seed after him.
And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year. And he left off talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.
And Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all that were born in his house, and all that were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham's house; and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the selfsame day, as God had said unto him.
~ Genesis 17:18-23

And WHO was it that drew first blood in the triple sibling rivalry that exists in modern times between the sons of Abraham?

The Crusades
From an Islam Perspective

Christians – not the Church, exactly, (although initiated by Pope Urban II) but Christian kings seeking to possess Jerusalem (for political reasons disguised as religion)!

3 Nations
3 Towers (1 at York in 1190 AD and two at New York on 9/11)
3 down, NONE to go…

The Golden Age of Islam
Some History from Fordham

WHO started ‘terrorism?’
WHO will end it?

Surely the ONE G.O.D. of us ALL…

And there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill, rivers and streams of waters in the day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall.
Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD binds up the breach of his people, and heals the stroke of their wound.
Behold, the name of the LORD cometh from far, burning his anger, and the burden heavy: his lips are full of indignation, and his tongue as a devouring fire:
~ Isaiah 30:25-27

BUT WHY?

Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever: That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children who will not hear the law of the LORD:
Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits: Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.
Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon:
Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant.
And he shall break it as the breaking of the potters' vessel that is broken in pieces; he shall not spare: so that there shall not be found in the bursting of it a shard to take fire from the hearth, or to take water out of the pit.
~ Isaiah 30:8-14

What LAW?
LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.
FORGIVE those who harm you

What oppression and perverseness?

If you lend money to my people that are poor amongst you, you shall not be to him as an usurer, neither shall you lay upon him usury.
If you at all take thy neighbor's raiment to pledge, you shall deliver it unto him by when the sun goes down: For that his covering only, it his raiment for his skin: wherein shall he sleep? and it shall come to pass, when he cries unto me, that I will hear; for I am gracious.
You shall not revile the gods, nor curse the ruler of your people.
~ Exodus 22:25-28

Lending money with usury = charging INTEREST…
Is it a coincidence that it was the center of trade that was targeted?

Cursing the ruler of our people….
Have we not done that, both in blame and suspicion?

Is America not guilty? And Israel/the Jews, too?

In DEED we all are. I can not speak for the Arab nations, for I do not know their financial system or their contemporary customs…I do have empathy for us all, however.

NONE of us has been a brother to the other in the true sense of the word and we are all both terrorist and victim…

We are neglecting the cloudiness of our own obstructed vision in our haste to place blame and justify our own conceived innocence; in so doing, we continue to stir hate and animosity – a deadly brew that is rolling in a full boil on the fire…

Originally posted by BO XIAN
3. Raping, hacking to pieces and sending off to suicide bomb YOUNG CHILDREN does NOT strike you as demonic??? What on earth would? Bar-B-Queing and serving them for dinner to their families? Oh, yeah, that wouldn't either. Right.

OF COURSE NOT!! :shk:

We Americans have OTHER methods of expressing diabolism:
(pick your poison!)

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Now you don’t have to worry about your busy day prohibiting research related to this thread…

indeed, allah is another name for yahweh... though yahweh has his roots in the henotheistic mountain god of the same name...

We rarely agree DJJohnston but an execllent statement. Unfortunately the sharks have begun to circle and will eventually kill this thread with their diatribes. Deny ignorance can be taken two ways... to deny ignorance a foothold as it were and to deny your own ignorance. There is already plenty of the second present on this thread.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
Negative. The Muhammadites will happily tell you that 'allah' has no son.

Although I know of no group known as Muhammadites, I have a feeling that djohnsto's comment had nothing to do with a particular religion. The word Allah literally means "The God". It's used by arabic speakers to refer to whatever deity they worship. There is no doubt that many of the 'pagan' gods (not just the moon god) of the pre-islamic arab era were referred to as Allah. There is no doubt that the jews of the pre-islamic arab era also referred to God as Allah. There is no doubt that the christians of the pre-islamic arab era also referred to God as Allah.

In a parallel example, would you advocate the removal of the word 'God', because it is derived from the word used by the pre-christianised germanic 'pagan' tribes to refer to their deity? According to BO XIAN, yes. God is apparently not thrilled with this pagan germanic title. Why don't people use the Jehovah term as commonly anymore? Oops...sorry...that's probably a romanised form (like the name 'Jesus') of the original Yahwah(sp?) in hebrew. Now I know that that is very rarely used in normal conversation.


People get too caught up in semantics, and don't look at the underlying message.

Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated from his father from an-Nadr ibn Suwayd from Hisham ibn al-Hakam who has said that he asked abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.), about the names of Allah and their derivations and roots.
"What is the root from which the word Allah is derived?" The Imam replied, "O Hisham, the word Allah is derived from ’ilah, that is, the One Who is worshiped and the term Ilah "One who is worshiped" requires a Ma'luh "One who have a God , a worshiper " . The name of Allah is different from His Own self. Whoever worships the name not the meaning has become a heathen and has, in fact, worshiped nothing. Whoever worships the name and its meaning jointly, he becomes a polytheist because of worshiping two gods. Whoever worships the meaning of the word Allah only he, in reality, has worshiped the One Allah (God). O Hisham, did you grasp it?" Hisham requested, "Kindly enlighten me more." The Imam added, "Allah has ninety-nine names. If each name had a separate meaning then each meaning would have been a god. Allah is One only and all His names stand for just One reality and all these names are other than Allah Himself. O Hisham, bread is the name of something to eat. Water is the name of something to drink. Dress is the name of something to wear on. Fire is the name of something that burns. O Hisham, did you fully grasp the point so you can defend your belief and contest successfully against our opponents, who, along with Allah, the Exalted, the Great, except things other than Him?" Hisham replied, "Yes, I did understand." The Imam said, "O Hisham, may Allah benefit you thereby and grant you steadfastness." Hisham (the narrator) says, "I swear by Allah, no one has ever defeated me on the issue of the Oneness of Allah until now."
Al Kafi Ch16 h2

Allah isn't worshiped by the drawing of his name , be it Allah , God , Yahweh , Elohim , Khuda ... He is worshiped by means of facts about His own self that He has made known to us , which are for the Muslims His 99 names .

The word Allah have its root in Elah , which means "The One who is worshiped" . Pagans would name any god they worshiped by allah/god .
The moon god's name was Hubal and the Moon is "Qamar" in arabic . Its cult will name it allah , like another cult which worship another thing will call it allah too .


In Islam Allah is distinct from all things :
"Allah is distinct from His creatures and the creatures are different from Him. Whatever could be called a thing is a creature except Allah Who is the Creator of all things. Holy is He for Whom there is no similarity and He is all-hearing and all-aware." Al Kafi Ch2 h4

How a religion that is full of such hadiths (narrations) can be accused of worshiping a moon god , by taking an ottoman symbol as a basis for this claim , the crescent , which isn't even a full moon ?!

"I asked Imam abul Hassan (a.s.), "What is the minimum required degree of knowledge about Allah?" The Imam said, "To acknowledge that there is no other lord besides Him and that nothing is similar to and like Him and that He is eternal, positively existing and not absence and that nothing is like Him."
Al Kafi Ch. 4, h 1

Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated from Sahl ibn Ziyad, from Tahir ibn Hatam when he was straight and wrote to the man (meaning thereby Imam abul Hassan al-Rida (a.s.). "What is it that without which one’s acknowledgement of the existence of Allah can not be considered sufficient?"
In answer the Imam (a.s.) replied, "That He is All-knowing, All-hearing All-awareness and that He acts as He wills."
Imam abu Ja‘far (a.s.) was asked about the minimum required degree of knowledge about Allah which without it , it would not be considered sufficient. The Imam (a.s.) said, "There is nothing similar to or like Him. He is All-knowing, All-hearing and All-awareness."
Al Kafi Ch. 4, h 2

The minimum required degree of knowledge about Allah is shared between the three Abrahamic religions .

I see little, if any, difference in the basic message given in the Q'uran, the Hebrew OT and the Christian NT...except it does seem that Islam has been far more pure in its treatment of the Q'uran and so it is more blunt in declaring the same things. An easier read, IMO - but perhaps only because of my willingness to understand rather than find differences that really aren't there, outside of culture. I must qualify that with the fact that I didn't delve into the native language or culture as I have with the other texts; only because my curiosity was satisfied regarding the tone and content it contained. It isn't for me to study as deeply but that doesn't mean I must remain totally ignorant, either.

When I read it, I immediately 'felt' the very same living spirit as I have always experienced.

And the fact that the worship of Jesus is understood to be idolatry - or so it seemed to me - but the respect for both Mary and Jesus is more genuine in that it regards them as human servants just as Aaron and Moses, etc.

This is something I personally found very refreshing; because truly to worship one certain human as G.O.D. yet exclude the possibility of us all having a living spirit within us is truly idolatry - worshiping the creature rather than the creator. And spirit creates what flesh manifests.

Personally, I strive to follow Christ but worship G.O.D.

This is evidenced as Jesus' own instructions, in the 22nd chapter of Revelation in the Greek NT:

8
And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
9
Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

Skipping down to verse 16, we see that it is indeed Jesus who is telling John not to bow down to him for they were brethren as prophets:

16
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

While I agree with the OP in that we need to begin to celebrate our religious similarities and stop the infighting, the purpose of the site is to DENY IGNORANCE..

Along those lines, it is important to examine some FACTS..

Because archeology provides irrefutable evidence that Allah, far from being the biblical God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, was actually the pre-Islamic pagan moon-god. Indeed, it is an established archaeological fact that worship of the moon-god was the main religion of the ancient Middle East.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

But what about the Arabian Peninsula, where Mohammed (570-632) launched Islam? During the last two centuries, prominent archaeologists have unearthed thousands of inscriptions which prove beyond any doubt that the dominant religion of Arabia during Mohammed's day was the cult of the moon-god.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In fact, for generations before Mohammed was born, the Arabs worshipped some 360 pagan gods housed at a stone temple in Mecca called the Kabah. According to archaeologists, the chief deity of Mecca was the moon-god called al-ilah (meaning the god or the idol), which was shortened to Allah in pre-Islamic times. Pagan Arabs even used Allah in the names they gave themselves: Mohammed's father (Abdallah), for example, had Allah as part of his name.

American Thinker

Examine the Archaeological, Factual, origins of the word ALLAH....

Did different Arab tribes give the Moon-god different names/titles? Yes

What were some of the names/titles? Sin, Hubul, Ilumquh, Al-ilah.

Was the title “al-ilah” (the god) used as the Moon-god? Yes

Was the word “Allah” derived from “al-ilah?” Yes

Was the pagan “Allah” a high god in a pantheon of deities? Yes.

Was he worshipped at the Kabah? Yes.

Was Allah only one of many Meccan gods? Yes

Did they place a statue of Hubul on top of the Kabah? Yes.

At that time was Hubul considered the Moon-god? Yes.

Was the Kabah thus the “house of the Moon-god”? Yes.

Did the name “Allah” eventually replace that of Hubul as the name of the Moon god? Yes.

Did they call the Kabah the “house of Allah”? Yes.

Were al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat called “the daughters of Allah”? Yes.

Yusuf Ali explains in fn. 5096, pg. 1445, that Lat, Uzza and Manat were known as “the daughters of God [Allah]”

Did the Qur’an at one point tell Muslims to worship al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat? Yes. In Surah 53:19-20.

Have those verses been “abrogated” out of the present Qur’an? Yes.

What were they called? “The Satanic Verses.”



The variable names (Sin, Hubul, llumquh, Al-ilah) of moon god were used by various tribes of pagan Arabs. Pagan god SIN was the name of Moon-god.
Faith Freedom

Archaeologists have unearthed a large number of artifacts in which a deity with a crescent moon on top of its head symbolized worship of the moon god. According to archaeological discoveries, the Islamic god, ‘Allah,’ originates from the ancient Arab moon god known as ‘Allah.’ This is a surprise to many, for most Muslims and non-Muslims alike are under the impression that ‘Allah’ is an Islamic name for Yahweh/Jehovah. Modern day Muslims have been unwittingly deceived. (‘Islam’ is the name of the religion, ‘Muslim’ / ‘Moslem’ is the person who lives the religion).

In reality, according to archaeological and historical records, Allah was the moon god married to the sun goddess, and together they had three daughters: goddesses Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat. (The first two names are feminine forms of ‘Allah’). The worship of these three goddesses played a major part in the worship at the Kabah in Mecca. The pagans prayed toward Mecca and the Kabah because that is where their gods were stationed. The worship of the moon god extended far beyond the Allah-worship in Arabia. The entire Fertile Crescent was involved in the worship of the moon.
2001 Translation

Now while I believe that Islam, like most monotheistic religions, has come a long way from it's Pagan beginnings, to deny the origin, is to deny the truth....

Semper