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Allah is NOT Some Pagan Moon God

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posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by MajorMalfunction
 

I say Allah is a pagan moon-god, and so do many archaeologists, historians, and anyone wishing to study the matter.

The Jewish and Christian God is Yahweh. I AM.

Think about this for just a moment. The Meccans worshipped 360 gods, the greatest of which was Allah, the pagan moon-god. Never, ever, did the Meccans accuse Muhammed of teaching a different Allah, the pagan moon-god.

The pagan, pre-Islamic worship of this pagan moon-god Allah, included:

Allah was the greatest (Allah-hu Akbar!) Allah is the greatest!

The symbol of the pagan moon-god was that of a crescent moon.

Pagan moon-god Allah was worshipped by praying toward Mecca several times a day.

Pagan, pre-Islamic Arabs made the pilgrimage to Mecca.

Pagan, pre-Islamic Arabs ran around and circled the temple of the moon-god called the Kabah;

Pagan pre-Islamic Arabs kissed the black stone, a meteorite.

They killed animals in sacrifice to the moon-god Allah.

They threw stones at the Devil

Pagan, pre-Islamic Arabs fasted for a month beginning with the crescent moon.

Required to give alms to the poor, etc.


Sounds exactly like what they do now. Islamic apologists, and even Muhammed in his time tried to sell Christians and Jews his moon-god as their god. They laughed and rejected that outright because they lived there and they knew better.

What do we see today? The crescent moon of the moon-god Allah on the flags of Islamic nations, a crescent on their mosques and minarets, fasting that begins and ends with the appearance of the crescent moon, the pilgrimage, the walk-arounds of the Kaaba, praying toward Mecca, kissing the black rock, etc.

All worship of a pre-Muhammed, per-Islam, Allah the moon god.

All directly contrary to the Jewish and Christian practice who worship JAWEH, I AM.

"Huyayy, the enemy of Allah, [a Jew] was brought out. He was wearing a rose-colored suit of clothes that he had torn all over with fingertip-sized holes so that it would not be taken as booty. His hands were bound up to his neck with a rope. When he looked at Muhammed he said, 'I do not regret opposing you. Whosoever forsakes God will be damned. He sat down and was beheaded." Tabari VII:35, Ishaq: 464

Doesn't sound like Huyayy, a Jew, recognized Allah as the same God as his.

"The Jews of Quanuqa replied, 'Muhammed, do you think we are like your people? Do not be deluded by the fact that you met a people with no knowlege and you made good use of your opportunity." Tabari VII:85, Ishaq 3:63

To make Islam more tolerant where Muslims are a minority, they really push this idea that this is the same God of the Jews and Christians. Yet this pagan moon-god's teachings are the exact antithesis of the God, I AM of the Jews and Christians.

Go fly that by to some other ignorant people, just as Muhammed did. But with me, no sale.




posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 07:43 AM
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reply to post by dooper
 

I am sorry, dooper, but I can't really say anything other than you (or the site you quoted from) are grossly misinformed. Your exact post has been posted here on ATS many times, as well as on BTS (even recently). I wish people would just link to whatever hate-website they are quoting from (without giving credit) instead of just copy-pasting the whole block of text.

I'll leave off the 'list' you quoted, since it has been addressed before, except to call attention to the last point you quoted: In spite of the fact that it is not true (Pre-Islamic Arabs had no such obligation), it is hilarious that you make a point of it at all....oh no! Those damned dirty pagan muslims and their requirement for giving charity! Jesus would never do that!



Plus, I'm not sure you'd be wanting to emulate Huyayy as a model jew. When he was secretly selling off the muslims to the Meccans (despite having a treaty with the muslims), the Meccans were suspicious as they were worried that the beliefs of the Jews and the Muslims were similar. Huyayy placated them by telling them that they preferred the Pagan customs and religion to the muslims. This is all from Tabari: the exact same text you (mis)quoted from. What Huyayy actually said was:
"Every man is going to taste of death. I have an appointed hour which has now come. I do not blame myself for arousing your emnity." He then turned toward the people present and said, "0 Men, it is all right to suffer God's decree. This tragic fate has been decreed by God for Banu Isra'il". Absolutely nothing about 'my-god-your-god'.

The second quote is also wrong. What was actually said by the Jews of Qainaqa was:
“Don’t be deluded on account of defeating some Qurai#es inexperienced in the art of war. If you were to engage us in fight, you will realize that we are genuine war experts.”

Again this is all from the text that you quoted yourself.


EDIT: hahahahha.....ATS got a new insult filter? I can't mention Qurai#es anymore, those poor people from the tribe of Quraish!


[edit on 4-11-2008 by babloyi]



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 08:31 AM
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Your Allah has no son and even says he doesnt in your book .......my God has a son ........Christ Jesus

So how can they be the same God ?



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 08:33 AM
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Allah is not some pagan moon god but that's what he was based on when Mohamed invented him out of opportunism.

So it's the same thing. Not the same god, but based on the pagan moon god.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 08:55 AM
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You people always amaze me with your stupidity, learn their languages!!! Read the bible, read the history of the original texts of all of these people, they all worship the same god and it was an evil god not a creator god an evil god who believed in control over people and believed war was the way to do it. He raped stabbed and stole his way into all of our minds on every side. It is a joke to take a side when the real person to point your finger at is anybody who has fell for either.

If you are on either side you are in the middle of a large game of chess that is being played by the rulers of your country and you are the pawn of the board.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 09:02 AM
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reply to post by whiskeyswiller
 

Muhammad didn't invent Allah. On that count (and nothing else), dooper's post is correct. even the Arab Jews at the time of Muhammad called God "Allah".
I fail to see how Allah could be based off the pagan moon good, when the Quran itself clearly states that worship of the moon, of the sun, etc, anything other than God is meaningless.

reply to post by Simplynoone
 

Hey Simplynoone!
I request that you ask a Jew that very same question!



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 09:08 AM
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{I request that you ask a Jew that very same question! }

I know that they do not recognize Jesus as the son of God ...
At least not yet they dont .That is one of the reasons why they have some very hard years ahead ..like the Gog Magog war ...the Lord does plan on getting through to them real soon ..he has not forgotten them even though they have forgotten him ...the time of Jacobs troubles will make believers out of alot of them ....



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 02:34 PM
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Originally posted by BO XIAN

Originally posted by djohnsto77
My roommate several years ago--a descendant of Mohammed and a devout Muslim to well into his adult life . . . researched the issue quite extensively. He discovered from a diversity of solid historical sources that:

1. "allah" was the name of a demonic moon god prominent in that tribal group well before Mohammed was even born.

2. When Mohammed received his "revelations" he himself considered them likely to be from demons. His cohorts, friends, relatives, persuaded him otherwise and essentially encouraged him to co-opt allah as the sole surviving tribal god into a new religion AS A MEANS OF EMOTIONALLY ENERGIZING MASSES OF PEOPLE TOWARD POLITICAL AND GEOGRAPHIC CONQUEST. He thought that was a great idea.

3. BEFORE MOHAMMED WAS BORN, IN THE NAME OF THE DEMONIC MOON GOD ALLAH:

A) a pilgrimage was made to the meteorite with a walk around it 7 times.
B) stones were thrown at the devil.
C) a crescent was a key religious symbol.


That is some very interesting information-thanks for posting.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 03:52 PM
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reply to post by babloyi
 


Yes, I've seen you post behind me before, especially when it comes to Islam. The quotes I use are derived from a Winn blend from many translations. No one translation from one language to another is ideal, but from multiple translations one can get a better feel and understanding of the meaning of the words. Oh, by the way, I found another source that indicates the Arabs did in fact wear yellow turbans as we spoke of in Revelation. I knew it was there.

Five translations of the Qur'an alone are used. The writing quality of the Qur'an is so poor (created by an illiterate) that Muhammed and Allah both seem to need a bit of assistance with grammar, verbosity, and punctuation. So yes, the unruly, meandering passages are often trimmed, unruly word patterns, and wandering repetitions are clarified carefully not to alter or change the meaning of any message.

These references were derived from English translations of the following ancient manuscripts. The Sirat Rasul Allah was writtenby Ibn Ishaq in 750 A.D. It was edited and abridged by Ibn Hisham in 830 A.D., and translated by Alfred Guillaume under the title, The Life of Muhammed in 1955 by Oxford Press. The History of Al-Tabari was written by Abu Muhammed bin al-Tabari between 870 and 922 A.D. His work was translated and published in 1987-1997 by State University of New York Press. Quotes are from Volumes I, II, VI, VII, VIII, and IX.

Al-Bukhari's Hadith, titled Sahih Al-Bukhari and The True Traditions was collected by Imam Bukhari in 850 A.D. The collector's original nomenclature is preferable because the only printed English translation (Publisher - Maktaba Dar-us-Salan, Translator Muhammed Khan) was abridged and erroneously numbered.

Recommended are the following Qur'an translations: Noble by Muhsin Khan, Pikthal, Ahmed Ali, Yusef Ali, or Shakir.

The only thing you seem to disagree with me on is the giving of alms. Are you saying that this wasn't a customary practice with the pagan, pre-Islamic Arabs?

So I guess the rest of my listing is correct.



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 08:03 AM
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reply to post by dooper
 

Hello dooper!
I'm sorry, I didn't realise you were the same person I spoke with in that earlier discussion- blame my bad short term memory for that. Great to hear from you again! I'd be very happy to hear that source you were talking about that mentioned yellow turbans being the norm for Arab muslims.

I don't know why on earth you decided to give me a mini-course on the Quran...seeing as it hasn't been brought up anywhere in this discussion since you last posted (or in your last post, even).

Let me give you a mini-course now, because it seems you are not aware of a fundemental fact of Islamic scripture:
Sirat Rasul Allah isn't the Quran. Heck, it isn't even part of Islamic scripture. It is chock-full of mistakes, inaccuracies, and fabrications, as acknowledged by the original author himself in that book (although he passes the blame on to those who narrated the tales to him). The History of Tabari - while it does quote some hadith, and some quranic verses-is not a part of Islamic scripture either. It is exactly what it claims to be: A history book. Tabari gives the same note as that in the Sirat Rasul Allah.

I went into all this detail because from what you write, it seems to me that you believe that the quotes you posted are from the Quran, when in fact they are not even part of the scripture...
You are mistaken in that only 5 translations of the Quran are used (it is not even true that only 5 english translations are used- There are many). I don't know who told you that the Hilali-Khan translation (co-translated by Muhammad Mohsin) is 'recommended'- it has been rejected by muslims worldwide, because the guy includes too many of his own ideas in the text.

You also seemed to have missed where I said that you entire list has been addressed in another thread (which I linked to). This is why I didn't address most of it, and is also why I asked where you copy-pasted it from.

It is troublesome and disheartening that the exact same misinformation is spread around again and again and again, in spite of how many times it has been refuted. Like that thread I linked to in my last post. Like the same info you repeated in your earlier post. Like what Bo Xian said, and Karl quoted again here.

[edit on 5-11-2008 by babloyi]



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 12:55 PM
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Hey, Bablyi! Bear with me just for a moment on this.

The problem in the Qur'an, even in the cleaned up forms, and multiple translations, is that the Qur'an lacks context and chronology, so one must depend on these other writings to know what is happening and in what context. Each of the Five Pillars of Islam is not explained in the Qur'an, but the Hadith.

The Qur'an commands Muslims to follow the example of Muhammed and obey his words. Without the Sira, nothing ins known about Muhammed, so the Qur'an cannot possibly be followed. Since the Qur'an is supposedly Allah speaking, the only examples of Muhammed and his behavior is in the Hadith collections, obtained from the companions of Muhammed, the collections of Ishaq, Tabari, and Bukhari. By Allah's command, not only are Muslims to follow the words of Allah, but the words and deeds of Muhammed are to be followed.

Hey, these are the only documentations of Muhammed in existence.

So in fact, these books really do have a significant impact on followers of Muhammed, and in fact, Muslim scholars study the Hadith, and especially the fanatics - point to these words and deeds as justification, and a pattern to follow, and they can use the Qur'an to justify these deeds.

I really don't pay much attention one way or another anymore, because a long time ago I studied it and don't give it much credibility. Seven versions of the Qur'an was given to Muhammed, and we know that they were very dissimilar. Then there were two others, and Muhammed was asked which he preferred.

It's a mess.



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 08:08 PM
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reply to post by dooper
 

Hey dooper!
You misunderstood my point. Ishaq and Tabari are not scripture. They are not part of the Quran OR Hadith. The 2 major authentic collections of hadith are Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim. There are a couple others, but Sirat Rasul Allah, and The History of Tabari are not included in those- because they are not Hadith.

Where did you get this information about versions of the Quran 'given to Muhammad'? Because it isn't true, not even by secular standards. Muhammad DICTATED the Quran to his followers, some of who memorised it, some who wrote it down. And it was dictated over a period of 23 years, not all at once. There was no opportunity or occasion for Muhammad to make a choice about one of 7 'Quran versions'.



posted on Nov, 28 2008 @ 11:28 PM
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reply to post by WiseSheep
 


Yes he does. his name is Obama, whose name translates to lightning in Hebrew.

Luke 10:18 And he said unto them I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven



posted on Nov, 29 2008 @ 07:19 PM
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reply to post by babloyi
 


I find it odd that Muslims are the very casualties of Islam. A shame.

Ishaq collected Islamic scripture before others. Four generations of oral tradition could have done nothing but degrade the material, and sadly, Ishaq's original material was lost. What remains was what was edited by Hisham 65 years later. And here's what he says in Ishaq 691: "I am omitting things which are disgraceful to discuss and matters which would distress certain people."

Comforting words.

"Zaid bin Thabit, the Ansari said, 'Abu Bakr sent for me after the [heavy] casualties among the warriors of [the battle of] Yamama. Umar was present with Bakr. "The people have suffered heavy casualties at Yamama, and I am afraid that there will be more casualties among those who can recite [portions of] the Qur'an on other battlefields. A large part of the Qur'an may be lost unless you collect it." "I replied to Umar "How can I do something that Allah's Apostle has not done?" Umar kept on pressing, trying to persuade me to accept his proposal. Zaid bin Thabit added, "Umar was sitting with Abu Bakr and was speaking [to] me." "You are a wise young man and we do not suspect you of telling lies or of forgetfulness. You used to write the Divine Inspirations for Allah's Apostle. Therefore, look for the Qur'an and collect it." [in one manuscript] "By Allah, if Abu Bakr had ordered me to shift one of the mountains [from its place], it would have been easier for me than the collection of the Qur'an. I said to both of them, "How dare you do a thing which the Prophet has not done?"
Bukhari:V6B60N201

He was compelled to gather writings on bones, skins, bark, palm leaves, and stones. Then he had to rely on the faltering memories of remaining elderly companions of the Prophet, none of which could memorize the entire Qur'an, but only portions.

It gets worse.

"Zaid bin Thabit said, 'I started searching for the Qur'an till I found the last two verses of Surat At Tauba with Abi, but could not find them with anyone but him. They were, 'Verily there has come an Apostle from among yourselves." (9:128)

This is bad. The ninth sura was the second from the last revealed. If only one person could remember it, then how so those revealed 25 years earlier were not retained? Furthermore, this directly confronts the tradition that Uthman, not Bakr, ordered the compilation of the Qur'an a decade later.

To directly answer your question:

"Allah's Apostle said, 'Gabriel [who according to Muhammed had 600 wings] recited the Qur'an to me one way. Then I requested him and continued asking him to recite it in other ways, and he recited it in several ways until he recited it seven different ways." Bukhari: V6B61N513

So, there were seven different versions of the Qur'an. According to Muhammed. Kinda makes you wonder, with all the confusion, if they pieced the right one together?

Or was it to conceal his fakery? An excuse?

"The Prophet said, 'It is a bad thing that some of you say, 'I have forgotten such and such verse of the Qur'an.' For truly, I have been caused by Allah to forget it. So you must keep on reciting the Qur'an because it escapes faster than a runaway camel." Bukhari: B6B61N561

If there is any question as to exactly how completely dissimilar at least two different versions of the Qur'an were, you may wish to read:
Bukhari: V6B61N561

Not even close. And this is a prime example of Muhammed making it up as he went along. Trying to cover his inconsistencies.

No. This whole Islam thing is a fraud.

Including the moon-god Allah.



posted on Nov, 29 2008 @ 07:22 PM
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Great post. Allah is just Arabic for God. He's not as personal however as Christians view God but Allah is still God.



posted on Nov, 29 2008 @ 08:01 PM
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reply to post by LittlePinky82
 

Nice try.

Alllah was one of 360 rocks, or gods maintained in the Kabalah. Allah was the moon-god, the greatest of the multiple gods, and he truly was the moon-god, and there's not much getting around that part. This moon-god Allah had three daughters represented by stars, named Al-lat, Manat, and Al-Uzza.

The transliterated phrase from Arabic reads, "La ilaha illAllah." A word for word translation in English would read, La[no] ilaha[god] il[except or but] Allah[Allah]. The important thing to note here is that "Allah" is a name of the Islamic god, and not the word for "god."

If "Allah" were the word for "god," then the phrase would read, "there is no allah, but allah." The Qur'an itself says that "Allah" is the name of the Islamic god: Qur'an 17:110.

This is critical, as part of the First Pillar of Islam, the claim is that the Islamic Allah is the same as the God of the Bible (his name is YAHWEH, or I AM), and permits the foolish to assume this Allah, the moon-god is the same as the Judeo-Christian YAHWEH, or I AM. Plus, YAHWEH has no daughters as does the Islamic Allah.

Two proper names, two different gods. This Islamic apologist crap has been swallowed by the ignorant, hook, line, and sinker.

Qur'an 52:43 "Have they an ilah [god] other than Allah? [a dumb question to be asking the Meccans since their primary deity was Allah.]

Qur'an 5:4 "Pronounce the Name of Allah: and fear Allah; for Allah is swift in reckoning."

Ishaq:324 "He said, 'Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. For Allah must have no rivals."

Qur'an 8:45 "Oh Believers! When you meet an army, be firm, and think of Allah's name much; that you may prosper."

If Allah is not the name of the Islamic god, then the god of Islam is nameless. And we can see differently.

If you need another twenty or more verses that say much the same thing, I'll be happy to accommodate.

Allah was the name of the Meccan moon-god, Allah was the name of Muhammed's moon-god, and still is today.

Consider the current religious practices identical to the worship of the pagan moon-god prior to the birth of Muhammed.

Identical.





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