the use of drugs have been specifically targeted to reactionary communities in an effort to undermind social unrest...look at harlem, once the pride of the african american comunity for contribution of leaders and socialy minded orginizations ...now a waste land of drugs.

so you argue an isolationist policy that does not fit with our current global model, and that of the future one to come. We will be alone in this and in the end will not benefit as other nations that embrace this mass migration, as it was planned to be done when this plan and model was first conceived and hatched out by our policy makers after WW2. Cheap labor at your door step.....that was the plan, our leaders know that.

[edit on 13-8-2007 by newyorkee]

[edit on 13-8-2007 by newyorkee]

well along with closed borders lets take away welfare and medicare and let people fend for themselves why should the country have to bear that burder as well right

razor I think you a disinfo guy ..tell me the truth, what is you definitive stance on this. What are you arguing?

Originally posted by razor1000
well along with closed borders lets take away welfare and medicare and let people fend for themselves why should the country have to bear that burder as well right

I am all for that. Those programs are unconstitutional down to the core.

not everyone would argue that and the fact that they are federally sanctioned and came into being after public out cry is an example of their need. We asked for them and got them.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by ChrisF231
The active duty military was not involved at Waco ... the FBI requested assistance from the Texas National Guard and they received it.

Waco is a very sore subject with me... Don't get me started on it. The government totally overplayed its hand and didn't have any, none, business doing what they did there.

What difference does it matter if they were active or reserved? They used military equipment against a civilian population.

I wouldn’t get too sore over this for the Guard is not active or reserve they are the National Guard who are controlled by each states' governor and so “posse comitatus” does not apply and so they can be used as the governor sees fit.

Our forefathers wanted it this way with the 2nd amendment “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State”. Our forefathers were all about check and balances such as having a federal military, but with civilians as the top leaders of that military. The other part was to also have a non-federal standing army to counter any possible military coups. This is where the National Guard comes into play.

I do feel sorry for Waco, but only because those poor people didn’t really understand that old David there was leading them right into his personal Armageddon. A lot is innocent people died and a lot of good agents died too.




[edit on 13-8-2007 by Xtrozero]

[edit on 13-8-2007 by Xtrozero]

I declare this thread officialy comprimised by disinformation agents...I'm out of here as it is that my first generation, immigrant butt just worked 14 hours and am very tired anyways....question everything! ROCK ON!!!!!

Originally posted by newyorkee
not everyone would argue that and the fact that they are federally sanctioned and came into being after public out cry is an example of their need. We asked for them and got them.

The federal government has dozens upon dozens of unconstitutional programs, whatever they claim to "sanction" doesn't really mean much. It is nothing more than another way for the feds to bring people under their control.

so publicly accepted and requested programs are a from of mass controll, interesting, ...........though I think that constitutionality is another issue and is in every case , case specific. As far as social spending over a inneficient military budget or one that favors that over a socialy redistributive one that embraces the world, that is a matter of philosophy to some and to others a matter of principals. Some argue that by investing in your populace you get the periferal return in the form of a highly compitent and skilled labor force. This is not in your interest when the aim is to control said populace through their lively hood. This so they produce and in effect exist only to produce and not pursue their right to happieness.When that labor force is to strong and unified(centralized) then it becomes a problem if what you are trying to do is exploit their services for a fraction of the cost. This was seen in the latin work force , where in their native lands faced true hardships just to change labor laws untouched practically since colonial times. this as well as bloodlines that through out the years only switched hands when "changing" or surrendering power. That is why they are put against so many obsticles just to legalize themselves "the correct way" Our leaders fear an active and radical lot directly voicing concerns in an articulate and effective way that could disrupt the "fish in the barrel situation" here with our work force. This in adition to the fact that latin american immigration represents people that genually care about their communities and their neighbors . They are usually participating on local boards and pta orginizations, community events for cultural awareness,which translates into community awareness. They participate in local churches , being that most are deeply spiritual and like many of us, very christian, catholic mainly. They are not evil invaders, it is the world at your doorstep, offering it self to you, do not shut the door in its face, who knows when we might come knocking....you know what I mean. We wanted these programs the way many natural born citizens wanted them. Social spending is never bad when it is an investment in those that produce for you. It can only be bad if you wish to perpetuate the imbalenced situation of abuse and exploitation. Humanity knows no nation race or creed. Our future knows none either. Embrace change. This is your world.



[edit on 14-8-2007 by newyorkee]

Originally posted by 11Bravo

Originally posted by ninthaxis
Why shouldn't they migrate here if it means the opportunity to provide a better life for their families?

Better question....Why should we let them come here illegally when they dont even have the desire to make their own country better?
If they are so ready to up and leave their homeland then what benefit do you honestly think they are going to be to ours?

Couldn't have said it any better.

Legal immigration is tightly controlled, not just anyone can immigrate to the United States legally...so the question becomes why are our borders so loosely controlled so that anyone can cross just about any place north or south? Answer is economics, illegal labour is cheaper in most cases, an illegal has no recourse to labour relations or unions if he or she wants to remain incognito, so they are a very exploitable resource.

Not to say that illegals don't take advantage, because they do. Working as I do in the grocery business, I'm a sort of half-ass night manager at a fairly large supermarket. I see people all the time using public assistance, food stamp cards, and related assistance programs, because supposedly they cannot afford to buy their groceries. Yet they'll drive out of the parking lot in latest model pickups and sedans, not to mention the occasional camaro, or firebird; now I don't know what percentage of these folks were illegal, but a couple of years ago, a rumour circulated that INS was in town and checking on immigration status, it was amazing how many of these same folks were no where to be seen for almost a week. Coincidence? Something tells me, no.

Border security is, in my mind, the number one priority for the next President and Congress. There's been some movement on the issue, but no where near enough.

We need to put Congress, and the next administration, on notice of this fact, and hold their respective feet to the fire. That means constant contact via emails, letters, editorials, what ever it takes. Time is running out on this. Which the elites know maybe even better than we do.

First of all, the elites do not know the pains we suffer better than us.

Second, The latin american populace has had more revolutionary battles and struggles for freedom than any american history book can hold. We are an active and radical lot of people that fight social injustice and take issue with the abuse of power and wealth. We have bettered our home lands and continue to do so, though the support of "democratic nations "is usually never towards our morally minded leaders. The reason why our men women and children flock to this country is because of the war and instability the american government has created on the world scene.
It is always the most evil and corrupt that seem to find the support of the U.S. leadership. Either with weapons and training to enemies of sovereign nation's governments. or with money to opposing parties in elections that would other wise be fair and truly DEMOCRATIC.

Third,and to quote:Seagull:
"Not to say that illegals don't take advantage, because they do. Working as I do in the grocery business, I'm a sort of half-ass night manager at a fairly large supermarket. I see people all the time using public assistance, food stamp cards, and related assistance programs, because supposedly they cannot afford to buy their groceries. Yet they'll drive out of the parking lot in latest model pickups and sedans, not to mention the occasional camaro, or firebird; now I don't know what percentage of these folks were illegal"

I too have worked in a grocery store which accepted wic and and food stamp. I can tell you, and swear on my mothers grave, when i say this: that over 99% of the people I met working in a grocery store, for more than 15 yrs, that used those programs, were the type to count every pennie. and trust me they had to make it count. They were'nt driving cars of any sort and in most cases took public transportation. and those that were illegal in your story, I doubt drove because they couldnt possibly have liscences. Before you go of the handle and say that the amount of falsification of drivers liscences among illegal aliens is another problem, I assure you it is not. The numbers just arent significant or greater than for any one else with a delinquent status legally.

This is not representitive of the factual standard of living a people living in relative poverty have. Compared to the standard of living of everyone else they share their communities with. Indeed, that share their communities with them. The abuses arent putting them in cars and homes better than their legal counterparts. This is a falasy. Most people on welfare are statistically women and children that need it. Most are legal americans.

By the way saying that you worked in an area of immigrants and all things considered are surprised when INS is in town and that the immigrant population does'nt show.....doesnt say much.

Would you ?

I dont think that that granola bread would be that tasty considering it would cost you the thousands of dollars we make you pay to criminals to get across the border, that could be paid to process illegals and establish their "paid" portion of services. That and the fact that your children may never see you again being that you are being handcuffed in the back of Stop and shop, and cant call a babysitter or next of kin being that you are in a foreign land, and have none. Rushed away and torn families like cattle and garbage, not human beings doing no harm but living, well, badly, better at times worse, like all humans. Learning, and improving. Criminals no....Our founding fathers were criminals in certain eyes of the time, that has no bearing on what they really are . Human beings that want to be american and contribute to one of the greatest countries in the world.


[edit on 14-8-2007 by newyorkee]

Originally posted by Xtrozero

but only because those poor people didn’t really understand that old David there was leading them right into his personal Armageddon.





[edit on 13-8-2007 by Xtrozero]

Ahhhh, ok.... Nah, that's what the media fed ya.

[edit on 14-8-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by Quazi176


I didnt think Waco was military. I thought it was FBI and ATF which is federal.

What? They rammed freaking TANKS through the compound... Yes, the military was involved.

I say we all move to mexico and force the government to conform to our liking.
put all resources into anti gravity technology, and start trying to mend relationships with other parts of the world.

Originally posted by razor1000

Originally posted by slackerwire

Originally posted by razor1000
theres a lot of good people who come here just to feed their families.

They need to follow our laws. Coming to the U.S. is not a right.

sure what they are doing is illegal i wont contest that, but i understand you know. i dont know what you situation is but a lot of these people just want a better life and getting a visa is not as easy as it sounds. theres a movie called american visa you should wach it and it will give you an idea of what people go trough

Sure it's not easy but look at the thousands if not millions of immigrants that did it legally and followed the rules to earn their citizenship ? If the illegas can afford to pay the coyotes $10,000.00 to smuggle them here , than whats a few hundred dollars and doing it legally ?? Other than they must have something to hide !

This is more or less a never ending argument. Everyone will never agree that illegal immigrants coming to America is wrong. There are to many variables that people try to throw in the mix to sidetrack the law.

As an American it is obvious that there is some that just want to destroy our country and do whatever they want. Just like they do in there former countries. They like the freedoms but not the laws and they do not understand that the laws are what make the freedoms. They come here under false pretenses and illegally to destroy us from the inside out.

The fibers of American culture are being picked away and soon there will be nothing left and it will end. Sure we are not perfect and laws are not completely perfect but they have worked for a long time for America.

It saddens me to see it all fall apart. Our country used to be a place where foreigners came to live the American dream and raise a family legally. Now they want to come here and live their way and destroy it. These people can not be convinced.