Pentagon to implant microchips in soldier's brains

Originally posted by jsobecky

Originally posted by malganis
So they could tell people that they are for medical purposes then once most of the population is chipped they announce martial law with curfews, etc and mention that they can actually keep track of the population through the chips!

may I suggest that you familiarize yourself with the basics of RFID technology. There is plenty of info available out there.

Yes but as I said in the first part of my post which you chose to ignore, there is lots of information out there but i'm never going to find the most advanced stuff am I now? Secret technology is years more advanced than the stuff we actually hear about, so how do you know what can and can't exist or be in research at the moment?

Yes, RFID is pretty harmless right now. But this bill isn't just about RFID, it's about the governments ability to plant whatever they want into your head. They could chose to use other technologies. Who's to say they don't opt for the good old dime-sized transmitter?

Who's to say they don't opt for a kill switch?

The options are completely on the table for them now.

I wander just how many soldiers will allow themselves to be tagged.. i should hope not many!

Allow 'would' have been the operative word there... but the soldiers don't have a say.

Clemson scientists have formulated a gel that mimics human tissue and reduces the chances of the body rejecting the biochip, which has been a problem in the past.

Stuff the body rejecting it, try my right foot.

i'm looking at this from a whole different angle.

these implants will monitor vital functions yes?

they said they lose people from blood loss or this or that.

well, i am thinking that these chips that monitor soldiers vitals would SAVE the service a lot of money/time/effort in the long run.....why?

soldier a gets shot/captured/lost......they look up his chip or however they do it to check his vitals and see that he is about to take the big sleep.
what do they do? nothing....
they know he is about to die so why send out the choppers to get him?

see what i mean?

they get a group of soldiers lost, they can activate the chip, see if they are alive and/or 'wort' going to save....

i don't trust this gov at al.....just another way to look at it

Originally posted by Tom Bedlam
Active RFID uses batteries.

The lactate and glucose sensor they're talking about is wired. They don't have any sort of radio link as of yet, they're still developing the sensor bits.

But it would be nuts to have batteries in it, so most likely it will be passive.

Perhaps, but active RFID only needs a power source and the human body produces one. So, in theory they could power it through the same microcurrents that enable it to monitor the body. The brain puts out the highest levels of these currents in the body, so the closer to it makes sense.

If it were an active, then it could potentialy output a continuous signal for receiving, such as GPS.
If it were passive it would only be active while it was in a powered field, so it could not keep real time monitoring of the body, only current info as it's prompted.

Of course this is assuming that there isn't already a blanket field existing within our current network of waves across the world which is capable of reading all the current transponders that we all have with us daily, like cars, car keys, cell phone, PDA's, etc...

Just some random thoughts from a tired individual...

Originally posted by malganis
Yes but as I said in the first part of my post which you chose to ignore, there is lots of information out there but i'm never going to find the most advanced stuff am I now? Secret technology is years more advanced than the stuff we actually hear about, so how do you know what can and can't exist or be in research at the moment?

The problem is, not everything is possible, even if you do believe that "they" have alreay perfected a pill that cures AIDS and cancer and makes you grow to 7 feet tall overnight and fabulously wealthy at the same time, but it is so cheap to manufacture that they will never release it to the public because they can't make a profit on it.

Before you learn about the "advanced stuff" you need to understand the basics. There are no shortcuts.

As for this particular topic, read the article, then ask yourself, do I really believe this tall tale? Consider the source of the article...

And, would you like to answer my questions about what it would take to pull something like this off? And why would "they" want to do it in the first place?

I don't mean to seem like I'm picking on you in particular. It's just that we must temper our imagination with a bit of common sense, that's all.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Tom,
You were definitely trying

The author at RINF had to have been TRYING to come up with total BS. You couldn't possibly generate something that wrong by accident.

Oh, well, I guess the meme is so powerful that everyone's determined to embrace the ignorance.

*waves* Hey, guys, I design with this stuff, so when the new of the totally-crap article wears off, give me a yell and I'll explain what they're doing.

Originally posted by LockwithnoKey


Perhaps, but active RFID only needs a power source and the human body produces one. So, in theory they could power it through the same microcurrents that enable it to monitor the body. The brain puts out the highest levels of these currents in the body, so the closer to it makes sense.

Ok. Let's try again. The author is lying to you. The Clemson CB3 guys are not putting anything in brains, nor advocating putting anything in brains. Nor about 90% of the rest of the stuff in that "story".

Next, no, you don't produce beans for power in terms of electrical currents. It's hard to even detect it cleanly much less use it to power something.

If it were an active, then it could potentialy output a continuous signal for receiving, such as GPS.

GPS doesn't work that way. GPS receivers don't output signals. They receive them, from satellites, then calculate their position based on timing differences. There's any number of reasons why you won't be implanting a GPS receiver.

Not that you would need to, because implants have severely limited ranges. This is due to a number of physical laws, but most of it is related to path loss.

If it were passive it would only be active while it was in a powered field, so it could not keep real time monitoring of the body, only current info as it's prompted.

The intent of this thing is to inject it into a trauma victim to measure blood chemistry. The rest of the swill in that article is pulled out of Adam's butt, without toilet paper.

They stick the thing in your arm, then put this cuff over your arm to read out the data. That's it. The entire thing, right there.

Given that the life of the sensor is limited anyway, I bet they end up putting the sensors on the IV gelco and just tossing it after they're done. The current version is wired.

Of course this is assuming that there isn't already a blanket field existing within our current network of waves across the world which is capable of reading all the current transponders that we all have with us daily, like cars, car keys, cell phone, PDA's, etc...

There's not.

Originally posted by Tom Bedlam

Ok. Let's try again. The author is lying to you. The Clemson CB3 guys are not putting anything in brains, nor advocating putting anything in brains. Nor about 90% of the rest of the stuff in that "story".

Hopefully you're right, b/c if something like that was going to happen, we'd be in some serious trouble. Though, how do you know that they can't track people better than they're letting on? How can you really know anything about how the gov't works behind closed doors. Even the thought of micro-chipping sends chills down my spine, even if the chips are for a good cause.

My apologies if someone has already posted this but if not... just a sampling of what *is" technologically possible (far as we know anyway, and probably much more that we don't!). The link is here: www.virtualworldlets.net... You can also read more about it on www.dailytech.com.

After years of research, Berger and his team of neuroscientists have created a working chip that could replace neurons in the brain. The chip simulates the behaviour, structure, and interconnectivity of roughly 12,000 neurons.

The real challenge for Berger and his team, however, lies in making their chip fully bi-directional. While most neural interface chips convert signals from the brain into computer commands, Berger intends for his chip to take commands from the brain, and then send commands back.

As so little of the brain’s internal code is currently understood, this has proven a major problem. This is a point on which many scientists have criticised Berger and also attacked his work. There are also problems with maintaining communication over extended periods of time, and ensuring the chips never overheat – if they do, they cook neighbouring neurons, which is not good.

Some scientists also argue that Berger’s chip might potentially change a person’s identity. The chip might end up affecting our “thought structure”, changing our personalities. In addition, they may even be able to add memories to our brains that we never had or damage real ones.

Despite the potential faults of the chip, funding is in abundance for Berger’s research. The National Science Foundation and the National Institutes of Health both contribute money to Berger’s annual $3-million research budget. Pentagon’s Office of Naval Research and the Defence Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) also send sizeable funds in regularly, as the advantages of a super chip in a soldier are obvious.

According to the article, later this year (2007) they're going to begin placing "more complex" versions of these chips in lab rats. ("More complex?" So there are lesser forms being tested, obviously, now.) In four years they're going to try it with monkeys.

Thought this was rather interesting in light of the conversation - and as far as implants go, I've heard stories of alien implants through the nasal cavity - you can find this on the internet pretty easily - I just did a quick google to make sure I remembered correctly before posting that... but IMO major brain surgery would likely not be required.

[edit on 8/1/2007 by Sunalei]

Originally posted by Saturn

Hopefully you're right, b/c if something like that was going to happen, we'd be in some serious trouble. Though, how do you know that they can't track people better than they're letting on?

Maxwell tells me. Seriously, you are a bag of electrolytes. They're conductive. They eat radio waves like Mikey eats cereal. You have a HUGE path loss getting any sort of radio wave (e-field) out of you. And the implant has to be small, so the frequency would have to be high, because you don't have room for an antenna.

The higher the frequency, the more the path loss.

You'd also have to have a battery on it, because you have path loss going both ways - a passive e-field tag is powered by incident radio waves and communicates by backscatter. You won't have enough power left to run due to incoming path loss, and the backscatter will be absorbed.

That leaves H-field tags, but they have physical distance limits set by the lambda wall.

Implants suck at distance, and there's not really much of a way to fix it.

What's more interesting, in the light of this conversation, is a dose of truth:



Behold, the "brain chip". Which isn't one at all. This is it. This is what RINF misinterpreted.

Two little disk electrodes, and a ground wire. With some coatings to return a current based on glucose and lactose levels in the blood. Five wires. No logic, no computer, no radio, no brains, no zombies, nada.

This is what Adam saw elsewhere on the site, and was too "uninformed" to interpret:



Is it a chip to implant in someone's head? No, no, no.

Is it a "chip" in terms of microelectronics at all? No, no, no.

It's a DNA assay chip. That doesn't have logic. It has little bits of DNA stuck to it in an array. The doctor takes a biopsy of the tumor, grinds it into mush, dabs a bit on this chip, and the active DNA in the tumor sticks to the little identifier sites, telling you what sort of tumor it is in minutes.

No zombies, no implants, no soldiers doing the Imhotep two-step droning "I am your slave". No GPS. No tracking.

Reality-it's a bummer. So much less exciting than fantasy.

Originally posted by jsobecky
The problem is, not everything is possible, even if you do believe that "they" have alreay perfected a pill that cures AIDS and cancer and makes you grow to 7 feet tall overnight and fabulously wealthy at the same time, but it is so cheap to manufacture that they will never release it to the public because they can't make a profit on it.

mmhmm when did I say anything about that?

As for this particular topic, read the article, then ask yourself, do I really believe this tall tale? Consider the source of the article...

I take everything with a pinch of salt. But then I don't just brush things aside just because they sound a bit weird compared to the things that we are used to. Remember, there's a lot that we don't know about, you have to keep your mind at least slightly open.

And, would you like to answer my questions about what it would take to pull something like this off? And why would "they" want to do it in the first place?

I already addressed that earlier, about implanting tracking chips in people that "they" (whoever wants to make use of the technology) would like to monitor. ok at first I exaggerated as a joke about chipping a whole population but I do think that that sort of technology could be used, maybe for monitoring people who are put on the terrorist watch list for example. Then it could be combined with other plans like proceeding to put anyone on the 'watch list' who is close to uncovering secret information or is deemed a threat to their (the tech-implementor's) plans.

The mentioned technology, is actually nothing new and has been mentioned here on ATS in it's many evolutions. How ever it has been over a year, since I have read or heard any thing on it.

Don't really like to take the fun out by just giving answers away, here's a clue though, do a search on this;






[edit on 1-8-2007 by ADVISOR]

Originally posted by Tom Bedlam
.............
What the article was about, was that you could inject a biochip of some sort into a trauma victim and measure various biochemical levels, such as salinity, oxygenation, glucose and lactate levels and so on.
.............

Thank you Tom. It is good to see that at least some people have some sense in them.

Unfortunately, in a couple of weeks or so, some member will still point to this article and claim the same thing that is claimed in the article given in the original post. It happens all the time.

Originally posted by Boondock78
i'm looking at this from a whole different angle.

these implants will monitor vital functions yes?

they said they lose people from blood loss or this or that.

well, i am thinking that these chips that monitor soldiers vitals would SAVE the service a lot of money/time/effort in the long run.....why?

soldier a gets shot/captured/lost......they look up his chip or however they do it to check his vitals and see that he is about to take the big sleep.
what do they do? nothing....
they know he is about to die so why send out the choppers to get him?

see what i mean?

they get a group of soldiers lost, they can activate the chip, see if they are alive and/or 'wort' going to save....

this government has a leave no man behind strategy, when 4 navy seals were compromised, and they knew that two were killed one was lost and one captured by the taliban, who said the executed him, they still went out and recovered 3 bodies and one still barely alive.

even if you dont hear about it. or see it on the news doesnt mean they're not doing something

Originally posted by Tom Bedlam
Oh, well, I guess the meme is so powerful that everyone's determined to embrace the ignorance.

*waves* Hey, guys, I design with this stuff, so when the new of the totally-crap article wears off, give me a yell and I'll explain what they're doing.

The sad part is, you'll spend a half-hour generating a decent response, and the next dozen replies after yours will contain wild-eyed, incredible interpretations of the article. As if you never even spoke.

I don't know whether to give you an

or a :shk: