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Originally posted by slymattb
Free will comes what God wants. He wants you to believe without knowing.
That was a clever way to spin that to try to prove that example wrong.
Siren, are you saying you would actually test this idea?
Are you saying that all those people died in the WTC didn't ask god for help and NOT receive it nor deserve his help?
Do you seriously believe that quite alot of them weren't religeous throughout their lives?
But they still died in the WTC which makes your idea questionable at best.
There are also millions of other examples where god could have intervened to prevent death of good religious people, but didn't.
Also, If god threatens people with hell if they fail to do and act as he requires to get into heaven, this is also an example of how god doesn't give free will. His will forces you to bend yours to prevent negative consequences. At the very least, the heaven/hell thing proves outside influence to effect your decision making
Originally posted by Siren
Truth be told, there were warnings. Some people heeded and went against the grain. Also, quiet as it is kept, less people died (thank God) than would have on a normal day, because several people were late to work because they went to vote before going in. Also, there were hundreds of people who for some unknown reason (even to themselves), who took the day off, called in sick, took a different route or did something different that morning. No body talks about that on TV. The media will not portray that because it will bring up the question as to how could anyone have known.
Originally posted by thereallgone
Do whatever you want it is your choice but know and accept that it is still known and yet amazingly enough you still have the freedom to do it. Don't you love freedom?
Originally posted by thestatue...its like if you watched a movie already you in no way affected the out come of the movie it ended either way you watched it happen
Fatalism is the thesis that human acts occur by necessity and hence are unfree. Theological fatalism is the thesis that infallible foreknowledge of a human act makes the act necessary and hence unfree. If there is a being who knows infallibly the entire future, then no human act is free.
Fatalism seems to be entailed by infallible foreknowledge by the following informal line of reasoning:
For any future act you will perform, if some being infallibly believed in the past that the act would occur, there is nothing you can do now about the fact that he believed what he believed since nobody has any control over past events; nor can you make him mistaken in his belief, given that he is infallible. Therefore, there is nothing you can do now about the fact that he believed in a way that cannot be mistaken that you would do what you will do. But if so, you cannot do otherwise than what he believed you would do. And if you cannot do otherwise, you will not perform the act freely.
The same argument can be applied to any infallibly foreknown act of any human being. If there is a being who infallibly knows everything that will happen in the future, no human being has any control over the future.