Clinton? Obama? or Edwards? Who Will It Be?

reply to post by xpert11

My first reaction was one of surprise. McCain and his advisor's are working on the basis that the religious right is dead at least for now. The naivety of pro lifers is rather amusing. They don't seem to grasp that Republicans only pay lip service to there beliefs come election time. Anyway I might have more thoughts on this matter as I learn more.

I think McCain went off the deep end. He must be on an ego trip. He cannot share the spotlight with anyone. He is too old, too slow and too unpredictable to be anybody’s next president. As they say at the mental inquests, “Confinement if he is a danger to himself or to others!”

Actually, the Anti Choice Movement - I refuse to label them PRO life because they abandon the child once it is born - has WON the war just as the South-type mentality WON the peace following the Civil War.

Whereas there would be 10 to 20 abortion clinics in a state like my old one, KY, area 40,000 sq mi, pop 4.5 million, there are but TWO. One in Louisville and one in Lexington. That effectively denies the RIGHT to choose to 40-50% of the state’s population.

Consider: If a woman lived in Paducah, 200 miles west from Louisville, and drives to get the abortion, she’d be advised to stay overnight 2 nights before driving back home. 20 gallons of gas at $3.50, 6-7 meals at $7-$8 each, and 2 nights lodging at $59 each in a Motel 6 or Day’s Inn, means she needs at least $200-$300 for the trip, not to say paying for the procedure which might cost $750. All cash up front.

The Anti Choice Movement has been allowed to deny this civil right to millions of women for 35 years without interference by any governmental agency, local, state or Federal. Wimps all! So who won this war?

[edit on 8/30/2008 by donwhite]

reply to post by Justin Oldham


I have to say this is the most callow and self serving pick I have ever seen... does anyone have any illusion that McCain would have chosen her if there wasn't an opprotunity to drive a wedge between disgruntled Clinton supporters and Obama?

No way. If that chance weren't there he would have done what all the past Republican candidates have done... chosen another old rich white man.

I also suspect that this is McCain's throwing in the towel gesture... no one is fooled by this pick and I doubt it will attract more than a handful of clintonites...

.... if the old man had any working brain cells any more, he would have chosen Huckabee.

Originally posted by grover
reply to post by Justin Oldham

 

I have to say this is the most callow and self serving pick I have ever seen... does anyone have any illusion that McCain would have chosen her if there wasn't an opprotunity to drive a wedge between disgruntled Clinton supporters and Obama?

No way. If that chance weren't there he would have done what all the past Republican candidates have done... chosen another old rich white man.

I also suspect that this is McCain's throwing in the towel gesture... no one is fooled by this pick and I doubt it will attract more than a handful of clintonites...

.... if the old man had any working brain cells any more, he would have chosen Huckabee.

Sorry, I seriously doubt any McCain advisors thought they could win over many Hillary supporters with a pro-gun, pro-life, right wing conservative woman.

Positives:
1. Fought against a corrupt Republican administration and won amidst much pressure from her party.
2. 90%+ approval ratings in Alaska. I've read probably around 8 posts from people from Alaska and none of them dislike her.
3. Executive branch experience. She actually works hard as a governor and seems to make thoughtful decisions and has most definitely been the complete opposite of what it means to be "lame duck" while in office.

Problems:
1. Experience.......but I still rate any executive branch experience above all the experience Obama has had in legislative positions (A good way to think about this is what has Obama accomplished vs. what has Palin accomplished). However, this is still a huge deal since McCain has always been touting experience as one of his major arguments. This will bring harsh criticism against him and will bring the issue of age full circle again.
2. Skeletons in the closet.........further research shows they are simply non-issues to anyone who is willing to actually look at the issues.

I've been completely undecided throughout this race. I disagree with Don that we have too much democracy so I struggle with voting democrat. I can't stand what Republican foreign policy has turned into. I'm rather conservative on social issues. The struggle within my mind literally causes me anguish. This VP pick doesn't do much for me...........may move me towards McCain a bit if anything.

[edit on 30-8-2008 by Bugman82]

[edit on 30-8-2008 by Bugman82]

Well the McCain camp has certainly been running ads trying to woo disgruntled Clinton supporters, and considering his serious cash disadvantage as opposed to Obama's overflowing coffers, it would be damned foolish of them to waste the money if they didn't think they would see some benefit from it.

I look at it this way bugman... while the Democrats are in no way shape or form perfect, they do care about the middle class and the little man (they don't always support what I would, but at least they make an effort) whereas the Republicans since they have been taken over by the hardcore right wing and the funnymentalists seem to only care about their owners and power. They push their ideology on everyone else even though they don't have the right to impose their beliefs on anyone else. They have repeatedly proved to be morally and intellectually bankrupt.

Personally while there are some Republicans I deeply respect, moderates like Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins of Maine being two... but after what I have seen of them over my political life, I wouldn't vote Republican for pooper scooper.


[edit on 30-8-2008 by grover]

Clinton? Obama? or Edwards? Who Will It Be?

Well none of the above! a lot could happen in a month!

Originally posted by grover
.... if the old man had any working brain cells any more, he would have chosen Huckabee.

Don't be shocked, but I agree with you. Sarah Palin has a lot to recommend her, but she's not going to be the coalition builder that McCain needs. to be honest, I KNOW Sarah Palin, and I do think she'd be presidential material in another eight to ten years.

Having said that, its worth noting that many of our Presidentsh ave had VP's who weren't qualified to do much. Dan Quayle comes to mind. I could go on, but you get the idea.

I am wondering if Grover is on to something. Does McCain read his own defeat in the tea lveaves? If so, this VP choice does work for him on two levels. a) It can allow him a more graceful defeat. b) It can allow the Republicans to claim an important statistic. "We wre the first ones to put a woman on the Presidential ticket."

Sounds corny? Not really. Politics can turn on one good tag line, or one good symbol. It's now possible that John MCain will be the martyr for his cause. This is something that Sarah Palin can survie. In the long run, it will be good for her resume.

Originally posted by Bugman82
Sorry, I seriously doubt any McCain advisors thought they could win over many Hillary supporters with a pro-gun, pro-life, right wing conservative woman.

Positives:
1. Fought against a corrupt Republican administration and won amidst much pressure from her party.
2. 90%+ approval ratings in Alaska. I've read probably around 8 posts from people from Alaska and none of them dislike her.
3. Executive branch experience. She actually works hard as a governor and seems to make thoughtful decisions and has most definitely been the complete opposite of what it means to be "lame duck" while in office.

Problems:
1. Experience.......but I still rate any executive branch experience above all the experience Obama has had in legislative positions (A good way to think about this is what has Obama accomplished vs. what has Palin accomplished). However, this is still a huge deal since McCain has always been touting experience as one of his major arguments. This will bring harsh criticism against him and will bring the issue of age full circle again.
2. Skeletons in the closet.........further research shows they are simply non-issues to anyone who is willing to actually look at the issues.

I've been completely undecided throughout this race. I disagree with Don that we have too much democracy so I struggle with voting democrat. I can't stand what Republican foreign policy has turned into. I'm rather conservative on social issues. The struggle within my mind literally causes me anguish. This VP pick doesn't do much for me...........may move me towards McCain a bit if anything.

[edit on 30-8-2008 by Bugman82]

Sarah Palin is a good example of what a Republican can be. AS a resident of Alaska, I do think highly of her. She is a rising star. I admire McCain's chutzpah, but he missed his chance to mend fences with the conservative base. Like gorver said, he should have gone with Huckabee.

Bugman makes a good list of Palin's plusses and Minuses, but let's be clear on just one thing. the religious right will not rally around this ticket. It's now a guaranteed certainly that 30% of the Republican base will stay home on eleciton day.

This means that the swing voters whocross over from the Democratic party ranks will not be able to close the gap. GOP pundist will have no trouble painting their ticket as morally superior, but that's just not going to be enough.

Originally posted by Justin_Case
I am wondering if Grover is on to something. Does McCain read his own defeat in the tea lveaves? If so, this VP choice does work for him on two levels. a) It can allow him a more graceful defeat. b) It can allow the Republicans to claim an important statistic. "We wre the first ones to put a woman on the Presidential ticket."

Umm I know that the Mondale - Ferraro were hammered in 84 but it doesn't erase the fact that Ferraro was the first Women VP candidate. I would be careful not to associate popularity at state level with nation wide popularity. Rudy is a good example of popularity at the local or state level that hasn't taken hold at the national level in terms of presidential offerings .

Well now I am going to post my final decision as who will win the next president.

After McCain choice for VP I can pretty much say that Obama will become the next president of this nation with biden as his VP.

that is all for now people.

Originally posted by xpert11
Umm I know that the Mondale - Ferraro were hammered in 84 but it doesn't erase the fact that Ferraro was the first Women VP candidate. I would be careful not to associate popularity at state level with nation wide popularity. Rudy is a good example of popularity at the local or state level that hasn't taken hold at the national level in terms of presidential offerings .

Uch. You're right. Ouch. I have such an intesne dislike for old potty mouth that I keep blocking her out of my long term memory. You are quite right. the Dems giet the first shot at that.

Originally posted by marg6043
Well now I am going to post my final decision as who will win the next president.

After McCain choice for VP I can pretty much say that Obama will become the next president of this nation with biden as his VP.

that is all for now people.

Hello, Marge. It's good to see you again. I think that I must agree with your assessment. I like Sarah, but I just don't think she's gonna be enough "oomf" to make a difference.

reply to post by Justin Oldham


In my case I dislike the woman she has manage to make too many mistakes and links to wrong decisions during her short time in the office of government of Alaska and some of the decisions that she has made has been abusive in nature due to personal agendas and just plain abuse of her governor position because she can.

Compare to Biden she has not comparison biden is a season politician with many years in Washington under his belt.

I got the feeling that once she starts to talk publicly she is going to drown McCain chances.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by Justin Oldham

 

In my case I dislike the woman she has manage to make too many mistakes and links to wrong decisions during her short time in the office of government of Alaska and some of the decisions that she has made has been abusive in nature due to personal agendas and just plain abuse of her governor position because she can.

Compare to Biden she has not comparison biden is a season politician with many years in Washington under his belt.

I got the feeling that once she starts to talk publicly she is going to drown McCain chances.

I suspect that Sarah will shine brightly, but her presence on the ticket won't be enough to turn the tide. She's a better public speaker that John McCain is, and she's certainly better looking--but--being telegenic isn't enough.

[edit on 30-8-2008 by Justin Oldham]

There are just so many factors that can still play such a huge difference in the outcome of this election that I don't feel comfortable saying anyone has a clear advantage at the moment. We still have debates coming up and something that makes me literally weep is the political usage of the upcoming hurricane. The parties are so close in recent gallup polls that it seems as though it may be as close as our previous two elections.

www.gallup.com...

Also posts like www.abovetopsecret.com... causes me to wonder if we will possibly see another popular vote winner ultimately lose the election.

Another interesting site to pay attention too that shows how close this could be.
www.usaelectionpolls.com...

[edit on 31-8-2008 by Bugman82]

reply to post by Bugman82

McCain has always been touting experience as one of his major arguments. This will bring harsh criticism against him and will bring the issue of age full circle again.

Just a heart beat away from the presidency!

McCain says YES, this 44 year old SARAH HEATH PALIN is READY to be the Leader of the Free World! Take my word for it!

This is the most GAWD-AWFUL thing John McCain has ever done. He is off his bonkers! The man needs to be committed.

2. Skeletons in the closet.........further research shows they are simply non-issues to anyone who is willing to actually look at the issues. This VP pick doesn't do much for me...........may move me towards McCain a bit if anything.

Early muckrakers have brought forth the possible misuse of her office in a personal vendetta against her ex brother in law, on behalf of her sister.

And God Bless this Right Wing Evangelical Hallelujah person, she just told us today her 17 year old - under age - daughter is FIVE months pregnant! Do you think she was but 16 when she got pregnant? I hope the putative father is not over age 18 lest there be a crime having been committed here. Palin is Strong on Family values no doubt! Pre-marital sex? I guess Bristol did not take the pledge to stay a virgin for her husband? I notice a lot of those hard talking Evangelicals do better at talking the talk then they do at walking the walk. Sweet Jesus! Come Quick!

[edit on 9/1/2008 by donwhite]

Early muckrakers have brought forth the possible misuse of her office in a personal vendetta against her ex brother in law, on behalf of her sister.

And God Bless this Right Wing Evangelical Hallelujah person, she just told us today her 17 year old - under age - daughter is FIVE months pregnant! Do you think she was but 16 when she got pregnant? I hope the putative father is not over age 18 lest there be a crime having been committed here. Palin is Strong on Family values no doubt! Pre-marital sex? I guess Bristol did not take the pledge to stay a virgin for her husband? I notice a lot of those hard talking Evangelicals do better at talking the talk then they do at walking the walk. Sweet Jesus! Come Quick!

Definitely more skeletons today! However, as a youth pastor who understands the statistics and difficulties facing adolescents today (peer pressure, self-image issues and a sex saturated society) I can't condemn the parenting because I really don't know the story. Anyone, and I do mean anyone can fall into sexual relations in high school and experience an unplanned pregnancy.

edit: Decided to add this article to give just a tiny bit of info showing the difficulties of abstaining. This article does reinforce the idea that abstinence only education isn't enough.....but that conversation is for another place.
www.washingtonpost.com...

I can, however, condemn the tough talking evangelicals because humility and understanding everyone fails at times is one of the most important aspects of Jesus' message. Jesus pardoning the adulterous woman who is thrown before him is a perfect example. Many evangelicals wrongly believe they hold a higher moral ground than where their "liberal" counterparts stand. They picket with signs reading, "God hates fags" and then safely in the confines of their homes out of sight browse pornography. However, be careful in falling into the same cycle in your labeling of "Evangelicals" and of Sarah Palin Don. Maybe hanging Sarah on account of Bristol's actions is deserved but maybe it really was a fluke rush of hormonal power in an undesirable circumstance. We just don't know.

[edit on 1-9-2008 by Bugman82]

The matter of Sarah Palin's daughter isn't news to us here in Alaska. It's just now coming out on the national scene. AS reported, the daughter has a wedding in the works.

By all reports t,eh Palins run a fairly strict home. It's not a surprise that one of their kids would rebel. I've seen this before in many families. Especially in large families, where expectations are high. My own younger sister chafed at having to do as well or better than I did in school and extra-curricular activities.

Now, then. As to the matter of "trooper gate." This is very old news for us in Alaska. This one's at least 12 months old. Yes, Sarah did throw her weight around to get a bad cop fired...after...that bad cop severely beat a close family member that Sarah happens to like. The ex-trooper in question has since left the State, for health reasons.

In the days to come, there are a few other matters that will come to the national attention. Chief among these will be the firing of our Chief of Public Safety, Walt Monegan. You will also hear about former State Commissioner Irwin, and a certain kerfuffle with State GOP chair Randy Redrick.

One of the reasons she is so popular just now is the fact that she just doesn't take flak from anyone. She's made qutie a few careers ,and she's broken a few along the way. Expect to hear more about that from State Rep Lida Green, too. You're gonna love the Alaskan Soap Opera.

: A Republican supporters receives and opens a telegram :

Dear so and so

We regret to inform you that your party is missing in action due to Hurricane Gustav .

Your sincerely

The Chairman of the Democrat Party

: Republican supporter finishes reading telegram :

Yeah I know that I am being a bit harsh . McCain should just about be old enough to remember when Wives and mothers dreaded getting a telegram .

reply to post by xpert11

A Republican supporters receives and opens a telegram :

Dear so and so
We regret to inform you that your party is missing in action due to Hurricane Gustav .
Yours sincerely
The Chairman of the Democrat Party

Yeah I know that I am being a bit harsh. McCain should just about be old enough to remember when Wives and mothers dreaded getting a telegram.

Wow! Is this called castigation or castration? Mr X11 is usually so polite that it is hard to put him firmly in Red or Blue condition. Up here they are called “Independent” but I call them wishy-washy. As in St John’s Revelation of Jesus Christ, the notable admonition: Rev. 3:16: “So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.” King James Bible bible.cc...

Well, I won’t be that harsh, Mr X11.

[edit on 9/2/2008 by donwhite]

I watched McCain try and make the case that Palin is more qualified to be president than Obama and I all but peed myself laughing... it was really a pathetic exercise.

To claim that someone with less than a half term as a governor of a small (in terms of population) state and two terms as a mayor of a town of 6500, along with being on the PTA is qualified to be president is laughable.

McCain in picking her just gave away his biggest argument against Obama, that he is not qualified to be president.