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Clinton? Obama? or Edwards? Who Will It Be?

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posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 09:29 AM
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reply to post by xpert11
 


Hardly presidential? bush minor has taken more vacation time than any other president.

Actually though when you think about it... we would probably be far better off if he had taken more.




posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 03:14 PM
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Grover, you may have a point.
I think Xpert11 has the right idea. Russia is asserting itself in ways that the United States is no longer capable of countering. I beleive that Vladimir Putin knows this, too. Recent evetns in Georgia would suggest that the Russians are thinking long term.



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 01:24 PM
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reply to post by Justin Oldham
 



I think Xpert11 has the right idea. Russia is asserting itself in ways that the United States is no longer capable of countering. I beleive that Vladimir Putin knows this, too. Recent evetns in Georgia would suggest that the Russians are thinking long term.


Life is never as simple as it looks. First, Georgia (independent since 1991) is on the Black Sea and land borders with Turkey, Armenia, Azerbaijan, twice, and Russian Federation. Tbilisi is the capital and I cannot pronounce the name. 26,486 square miles. About the size of West Virginia. 4,600,000 population. 2.4 million cell phones. 330,000 persons on the internet; country code is ge. GDP in 2007, $4,700 per person.

Here we go again, fighting over “borders” as if the borders were equal in certainty to those separating New York from Pennsylvania. Geez! Anyone here recall reading about the WAR we almost fought over where to draw the NY and Vermont border?



Russia and Georgia agree on delimiting 80% of their common border, leaving certain small, strategic segments and the maritime boundary unresolved; OSCE observers monitor volatile areas such as the Pankisi Gorge in the Akhmeti region and the Argun Gorge in Abkhazia; UN Observer Mission in Georgia has maintained a peacekeeping force in Georgia since 1993; Meshkheti Turks scattered throughout the former Soviet Union seek to return to Georgia; boundary with Armenia remains un-demarcated; ethnic Armenian groups in Javakheti region of Georgia seek greater autonomy from the Georgian government; Azerbaijan and Georgia continue to discuss the alignment of their boundary at certain crossing areas. www.cia.gov...


Georgia is ranked No. 101 in the world’s oil producing nations. But several oil and gas pipelines from other countries cross Georgia going to the Black Sea. You might say it's either a valuable or a vulnerable petro “choke-point.” A Strait of Hormuz North?

On the breakup of the USSR, the US eagerly jumped into many of the former Soviet states. Ukraine, Belarus, the Baltics, several of the -stans and Georgia! Our obvious goal was to forever surround and to NEUTER the surviving Russian Federation. The Americans were about to teach the Brits how to play and WIN their old Great Game! But alas, the US has “over-reached” in Georgia promising more than we could deliver when it came push to shove time. The Ruskies are PUSHING-BACK. Or as Shakespeare put it a long time ago, this is MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING. Geopolitics between the Big Boys!

And as usual, Texas's own Bush43 and his team of mighty midgets were caught short! Sweet Jesus! What else can Bush43 muck-up before January 20, 2009?

[edit on 8/17/2008 by donwhite]



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 08:58 AM
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I've been saying that since this whole Georgia thing started... that the new czars have judged (rightly) that the American military response is hamstrung and any diplomatic clout has been wasted so that now is a good time to start reasserting the Russian empire.



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 10:48 AM
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reply to post by grover
 



. . that the American military response is hamstrung and any diplomatic clout has been wasted so that now is a good time to start reasserting the Russian empire.


The only person in the FIRST Bush43 administration with a basic world understanding was Colin Powell. Bush43 "used" him up at the UN in February, '03. Fact is Bush43 never wanted a real Secretary of State. He is his own! Hey, Bush43 talks to GOD and maybe even GOD answers? Condo Rice - offered to Bush43 by Daddy’s NSC Brent Scowcroft as a EXPERT on the Russian Federation - and she added “color” to the campaign - has proved to know less about the RF than almost anyone except George Tenant. Neo Cons “know” the world; they do not need to “learn” the world.

Under the aegis of Herr Oberfuhrer Rumsfeld, we have used up the various National Guards, the organized Army Reserves and now have to induct “volunteers’ with criminal records to fill out the quota for new blood. I call “Rummy” Herr Oberfuhrer because he brooked no dissent! As if a Bush Jr, Rummy said “You are either with me or you are against me!”

Now we have bungled the Afghan adventure, and we are being asked to leave Iraq by the Iraqi. Georgia - another US lackey state - is about to reverse that mentality under real RF duress.


[edit on 8/18/2008 by donwhite]



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 03:17 PM
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Everyone seems to have a Rumsfeld hangover. He resigned in November 2006 as I recall. If by some odd quirk of fate Osama, I mean Obama, actually wins the 2008 presidential election, I will have a field day for the following four years pointing out what an idiot Obama is, and that Bush was better.


[edit on 8/18/2008 by TheAvenger]



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by TheAvenger
Everyone seems to have a Rumsfeld hangover. He resigned in November 2006 as I recall. If by some odd quirk of fate Osama, I mean Obama, actually wins the 2008 presidential election, I will have a field day for the following four years pointing out what an idiot Obama is, and that Bush was better.


In my origian lthesis, I suggested that we have more to fear from the Democrats than we do from the Republicans.

You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to see that the GOP is a spent force, and it will be plowed under as we go to the polls in November. That's really too bad, becasue in their gey-day, they represented the best case for smaller/leaner government. Now that the anti-Federalists have lost their argument, all hell is going to break loose.

the Dems won't be entirely to blame, but the worst of what is to come will be done by their hand. The next President...whoever that is...will inherit an over-powered Executive branch. It would take a person of exceedingly good character and perspicacity to reverse that Imperial trend.

Neither McCain nor Obama is going to be that person. Either one would assume they could handle it. they would dare to use that unbalanced authority with good motives...but...they will fail. It's worth noting that most of hostory's failed leaders had good intentions.

On his best day, McCain will be compared to Bush41. As things go wrong for him, he will be compared to Herbert Hoover.

On his best day, Obama will be cmpared to Jimmy Carter. As things go wrong for him, he will be compared to Woodrwo Wilson.

What's that you say? Not a bad thing to be compared to Woodrow Wilson? Hm. Let's wait and see what Don has to say about that.



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 06:17 PM
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reply to post by Justin Oldham
 



I suggested that we have more to fear from the Democrats than we do from the Republicans. On his best day, Obama will be compared to Jimmy Carter. As things go wrong for him, he will be compared to Woodrow Wilson. What's that you say? Not a bad thing to be compared to Woodrow Wilson? Hmm. Let's wait and see what Don has to say about that.


It is true that the Dems are not afraid to create an agency to deal with a problem. Some critics called the New Deal an Alphabet Soup for Government. It will take years to undo the harm done to our regulatory system since 1980. And maybe $2-$5 t. in debt for our grandchildren to pay. Do you see why I label this the "Dead Beat Generation?"

The mortgage meltdown is the biggest failure of NON regulating. FAA lets planes go 2 years between inspections. The FDA is re-active, not proactive. A while back a California meat packer recalled 150 million pounds of ground beef. The recall was for meat processed over a FIVE year period. Half was sold to public schools.

I am 100% sure the Department of Agriculture did not originate this recall but most likely some ATLA lawyer. Futures trading has 405 employees per their website, when they ought to have 4,000. The Reagan Revolution at work!

If you are black, you will never forget (or forgive) Woodrow Wilson. Elected from New Jersey where he was president of Princeton U., he was actually a southern racist, born in Staunton, VA in 1856. The US Civil Service was founded in 1883 under Pres. Chester Arthur who succeeded to office on the death of James Garfield who was killed by a disgruntled spoils job seeker.

When Wilson took office, he ordered all the US Government offices be segregated by race. He ordered the civil service to hire blacks for low paying jobs. He really did a Ku Klux Klan act on America and its black citizens. It was not until Harry Truman that this practice was reversed.

In other areas, Wilson did a remarkable job. Under his leadership Congress passed the Federal Trade Commission Act. The Clayton Antitrust Act. And most consequential, the Federal Reserve Act. And he re-introduced the graduated personal income tax.

Because of his personal hubris - no Republicans were on his trip to Paris - he was unable to get the League of Nations treaty passed by the Senate. Wilson is famous for his Fourteen Points on which he wanted the peace to be founded. Prime Minister Clemenceau mocked him by reminding that GOD had only 10 Commandments!



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 08:18 PM
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that's a very good encapsulation of the thing. Pretty much what I had in mind. Thanks. The next President will not have an easy time of it. Their best intentions will probably not be good enough to slow or stop what's coming. Ouch.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 07:29 AM
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reply to post by TheAvenger
 



Everyone seems to have a Rumsfeld hangover. He resigned in November 2006 as I recall. If by some odd quirk of fate Osama, I mean Obama, actually wins the 2008 presidential election, I will have a field day for the following four years pointing out what an idiot Obama is, and that Bush was better.


Mr T/A, Rummy WRECKED the US Military establishment. In SIX overlong yeras he has promoted 100s of generals and admirals. No one has been promoted who did not share his (and Bush43's) Neo Con philosophy and their own ignorant ideas about the value of a independent military or put more accurately, the lack of a need thereof.

You cannot restore an institution overnight, after it has been whipsawed six years. Sad to say, but the only way to get back to PRE Supreme Court 2000 is to RETIRE ALL 3 and 4 star personnel. None of Rummy's choices can have showed independent thinking. Or they would not have been promoted. TEAM players is what he called that. Everybody is on his same DUMB team. Robert Gates has not FIXED that yet. Bush43 won't let him.

That's why I continue to refer to the wreckage caused by Herr Oberfuhrer Rumsfeld.



posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 05:49 PM
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We are now just days away from teh start of the Democratic party's nominating convention. What do you folks make of the fact that Mr. and Mrs. Clinton play such a big role in this year's festivities? Are we about to witness a palace coupe? Or, are we seeing something else?



posted on Aug, 22 2008 @ 02:30 AM
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Well IMO it is only natural that the Clinton's would take much of the limelight at the convention . Aside from there status amongst the democratic party it wouldn't hurt to throw Hillary supporters a bone . Should Hillary be Obama VP pick the convention would provide a stage to announce this little fact . Come on Obama don't make a fool of me now make sure that you name Richardson as your VP .


Its not impossible that Hillary could pull the rug out from under Obama feet . Although I do think that this was far more likely had Hillary stayed out of the race and not dropped out at the odd time that she did . Should such an event take place I would expect a record low voter turn out at the polls as both partys core supporter base will stay at home . Also the sleeping giant otherwise known as third party's may just begin to waken .



posted on Aug, 22 2008 @ 07:20 PM
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And, we're back to third partys again. I do agree that they seem to be growing at a rate that is much faster than before. As the Republican position continues to decay, it may be possible for a third party to score enough victories at the State level to eventually rise to national presence.



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 05:52 AM
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Joe Biden is the Man of the Hour



Barack has chosen Senator Joe Biden to be our VP nominee," the text message, sent at around 3 a.m. ET, said.

"Joe and I will appear for the first time as running mates this afternoon in Springfield, Illinois -- the same place this campaign began more than 19 months ago," Obama said in an e-mail sent to supporters Saturday morning.


Source

If Obama - Biden win the election the US will have another VP that has a lot of influence on Foreign Policy . This is something that could put voters off after they have lived with eight years of Cheney(SP?) . I would expect Obama to assert himself on the domestic front in order to avoid a do it nothing admin which the current one has been on the home front .


Still at least Obama didn't entire make a mockery of me he didn't select Hillary as his VP at least I got that bit right . Maybe Ike was on to something when he was the president and Nixon was his junior partner so to speak . Obama will do one thing that Ike did he will use his VP to throw the punches in order to maintain the image of wanting to work with Republicans .

[edit on 23-8-2008 by xpert11]

[edit on 23-8-2008 by xpert11]



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 09:05 AM
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reply to post by xpert11
 


Biden is not Cheney... he is not going to spend his tenure trying to rebuild an imperial presidency as in Nixon.



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 02:44 PM
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Grover brings up an intersting question. In what ways will biden overshadow Obama? Can we realy expect Vice President Biden to play the role of the silent elder Statesman? It's not hard to imagine that future Republicans will accuse Obama of getting his best ideas from Biden, when the chips are down.

In many respects, McCain is going to feel obligated to choose romney as is hown VP pick, just to try and bring in some of the media prestige that biden will have. Again, I am forced to concede that the Republicans just don't have anyone in their stables who can match this ticket.

I want to be clear on one thing. Biden does have his weaknesses. He shoots off his mouth, and he is known for rubbing people the wrong way. He's no Geraldine Ferraro, but the Republicans do have a good chance of finding his kryptonite and using it to good effect.



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 12:54 AM
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Originally posted by Justin Oldham
Grover brings up an intersting question. In what ways will biden overshadow Obama?


My initial thought is that Obama personality would overshadow Biden . The two most recent examples of this is Gore being overshadowed by Clinton and Bush senior living in Reagan shadow . In Bush senior case living in Reagan shadow and his famous broken pledge couldn't have helped him in 92 .

Well that is my take on things .

[edit on 24-8-2008 by xpert11]



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 01:59 AM
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IF Joe Biden is capable of keeping a low profile, he may not provide the GOP with very many targets of opportunity. His age (65) might just make him patient and circumspect. Throughout our history, the 'good' vice Presidents have all stayed out of the lime light until they were called on to perform some specfic task.



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 08:08 AM
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Sooner or later some damned fool right winger of a nut job (my respect for them grows less and less each day) is going to try and merge Obama/Biden into Osama Bin laden and there are idiots out there who will fall for it.

If McCain chooses either Liberman or Romney the religious right will be throughly ticked off and either runs the chance of costing him the election so I am rooting for either of them.


Actually I am not so concerned about the chances of a McCain presidency... even if he wins its pretty obvious that he is going to be facing a veto proof Democratic congress and as such will be pretty hamstrung in regards to what he can or cannot do... and mark my word, after the depradations of bush minor's presidency the congress is going to be reasserting its authority regardless of who is in the oval office... which is a good thing.

[edit on 25-8-2008 by grover]



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 10:28 AM
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For a long list of reasons, John McCain has a better shot at the Presidency than he should. the last piece of the puzzle would seem to be his pock for VP. I don't see any of them being a real edge for him. Conventional wisdom says that he should pick romney. I say Huckabee.

McCain needs to repair his rift with the religious right. Huckabee has been a governor, and he brings religious credentials that couldserve McCain well. Even so, a McCain victory depends on mistakes made by the Obama camp.



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