Explanation as to why CSETI has no credible video/photographic evidence

Originally posted by millerman
Just had another thought - getting one of us out on an expedition would give that person the opportunity to have direct conversations with Greer, and get answers to all these questions and inconsistencies being debated these past few months! So it would kill two birds with one stone.....
[edit on 30-5-2007 by millerman]

You don't seriously think that Leader Greer would answer any of your questions do you?

He would point out that you have only paid $800 for the vector party. To tell you anymore, you would have to reach the $10,000 lifetime benefactor status, in which case you would be annointed as a High Priest of the Cult.

Originally posted by millerman
You're the King of the Greer-Haters, YOU should be the one to go! Though somehow I doubt you'd confess to seeing UFOs even if Greer vectored in a bakers dozen for you....

I doubt I'm the King. Come on, there has to be other people who hate Leader Greer more than I do.

You're the only one qualified to go, as you're the only one qualified to swallow Cult Greer's dogma. Well, c3hamby and ETDisclosure would probably jump on board too, they know how to chant the mantra, just like you.

The only way that I would go, is if it was expenses paid AND I was paid to do it. I'd need compensation for the time away from my life and family.

Originally posted by tezzajw
You're the only one qualified to go, as you're the only one qualified to swallow Cult Greer's dogma. Well, c3hamby and ETDisclosure would probably jump on board too, they know how to chant the mantra, just like you.

The ideal person has to be a senior, well-respected and believable member, who has a healthy level of skepticism but is also enthusiastic and open-minded about going.

As I said, I'd love to go, but I am rock-bottom broke and I highly doubt the members of this site are going to send me their $$$ to go, and they aren't going to believe what I write when I come back either....

Does Greer own Mount Shasta? Surely, if anyone was up for it, some ATS members who live in the vicinity could go on an overnight camp in the area when the 'Ambassador to the Universe' training session is active. Take a video camera and watch the skies- the volunteers wouldn't have to participate in Greer's rituals, nor contribute a dime to the cult.

Thinking about it, isn't there a Mount Shasta webcam somewhere? Easiest option is to spend the night watching that when Greer is chanting and counting cash on the mountainside.

Originally posted by torsion
Does Greer own Mount Shasta? Surely, if anyone was up for it, some ATS members who live in the vicinity could go on an overnight camp in the area when the 'Ambassador to the Universe' training session is active. Take a video camera and watch the skies- the volunteers wouldn't have to participate in Greer's rituals, nor contribute a dime to the cult.

I don't know, I think spying on them rather than participating with them would be in poor taste....

Originally posted by millerman
And if I go, and come back and tell everyone, "It was absolutely amazing, this giant UFO touched down and the 12 Diplomatic Elders of the Galaxy came out and Dr. Greer approached and met with each one in turn!" - would ANY of you believe me??

I repeat - it has to be a senior and very well-respected member. (Gazrok?)

Agree, It has to be a senior member. If this is to happen.
Otherwise, people would think this is another machination.

Originally posted by torsion
Does Greer own Mount Shasta? Surely, if anyone was up for it, some ATS members who live in the vicinity could go on an overnight camp in the area when the 'Ambassador to the Universe' training session is active. Take a video camera and watch the skies- the volunteers wouldn't have to participate in Greer's rituals, nor contribute a dime to the cult.

Thinking about it, isn't there a Mount Shasta webcam somewhere? Easiest option is to spend the night watching that when Greer is chanting and counting cash on the mountainside.

You sir, have the worst manners I've had to endure on public forums.
You disgust me. I also think that some of the forum members are also starting this a cult. Steven Greer Haters.

I can also picture you guys, working together to bring this Man's work down by all means, just pathetic.

Originally posted by millerman
I don't know, I think spying on them rather than participating with them would be in poor taste....

I didn't mean spy on the training session - simply go in the area and watch the skies. If he vectors any ufos they should be visible for miles around. Greer doesn't have exclusive rights to the mountain does he?

Don't tell me - the ufos only make themselves visible to those who hand over $800!

Originally posted by ETDisclosure
You disgust me. I also think that some of the forum members are also starting this a cult. Steven Greer Haters.

I can also picture you guys, working together to bring this Man's work down by all means, just pathetic.

ET, teejaw is just needling you and you keep falling for it. Relax. You don't seem to understand what a cult is. We've gone over this before. Wikipedia has a loooong article on what a "cult" is. millerman and I had a round of posts about this on a now-sunken thread. Go over to wiki and read the definition. I will point out that one of the characteristics of a cult is that its adherents typically insist it is not.

Now look at your last sentence up there. Notice anything? In normal English prose you would not capitalize "Man's." You would say, "the man's work." If you were referring to God or Jesus, in normal prose you would capitalize, including indefinite pronouns, thus you would capitalize "His work." When you say "the Man's work" you are elevating Greer to god-like status. Don't try to tell me this is a trivial point. It is this sort of activity that gets people saying "cult." You, in particular, are acting very 'cult-like' in your reactions to what others are saying.

Now, I'm going to give you a pass on the cult issue. First, I think it is borderline. Second, it detracts from the more important issues.

I still want to know why a Disclosure Project works so hard to Not-Disclose. Isn't it ironic that a Disclosure Project makes you sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement. It's a contradiction in terms.

I still want some pictures. The Greer camp says they have lots and lots of pictures (quotes above). Well, let's see them. My guess is that the Mothra Episode was such an embarrassment to the Greer Camp that they are wary of putting out something else to be criticized. The arrogance of that issue is on a par with what ET says is pathetic in people who criticize Greer. My guess is all they've got is some lights in the sky. We've had lights in the sky for fifty years. I'm tired of lights in the sky. Gimme some good stuff.

The Greer camp ALSO says the ET guys don't want them to be seen. Really? Then the Disclosure Project is the Non-Disclosure Project, right?

The Greer Camp says pictures are rare because the ETs jam the cameras. OK, but that contradicts the 'fact' that the Greer Camp has lots of pictures. Which is it. Do you have pictures or not? You can't talk out of both sides of your mouth on this one. Get your story straight.

Yes, I know Greer doesn't 'owe' me anything. The converse is also true. If you want to 'spread the message' you're going to have to do a better job. Thats a fact. Yelling at people who point out the fallacies of your arguments does not cut it. It simply shows you to be circling the wagons against he outside, just like a --well, I said I wouldn't say that.


[edit on 31-5-2007 by schuyler]

Originally posted by millerman
Just had another thought - getting one of us out on an expedition would give that person the opportunity to have direct conversations with Greer, and get answers to all these questions and inconsistencies being debated these past few months! So it would kill two birds with one stone.....

[edit on 30-5-2007 by millerman]

Would anyone dare stand up and challenge Greer's credibility, in the woods, at night, with 60 'ooommmmming' Greer followers sitting around the blazing camp fire? I think it might be more than two birds that get killed with a stone! Anyone seen The Wicker Man?

Indeed, take a look at the CSETI Liability Release participants have to sign which states - "I agree to hold harmless... Steven M Greer M.D... in the event... of... my death or disappearance."

www.cseti.org...

[edit on 31-5-2007 by torsion]

Here is a Mount Shasta Cam

Mount Shasta

and here is another but it doesn't appear to be working at the moment. Is it just off line or could it be ET intervention? Maybe Burkes was right after all!

Shasta

Greer will be doing his stuff there from August 26 - September 1, 2007 so the skies above that mountain should be teeming with space ships. Get ready for the all night vigil!

[edit on 31-5-2007 by torsion]

Originally posted by millerman
I don't know, I think spying on them rather than participating with them would be in poor taste....

Unless Cult Greer have managed to secure enough funds to purchase Mount Shasta, then part of it should be public land, right?

So, the public can go to the Mountain and watch the skies to enjoy the vectoring. If Cult Greer are camping on public ground, then what's stopping any member of the public from walking past and flipping them some birds or moths?

I doubt that Cult Greer has progressed to animal sacrifice at this stage, so there's no danger walking past the vectoring party of Universal harmony, love, peace and cash counting.

Schuyler - you took the words right out of my fingers. A Disclosure Project forcing participants to sign a NON-Disclosure Agreement. That's a contradition of terms, principles and ideals that only a Cult of blind zealots could accept.

Originally posted by tezzajw
I doubt that Cult Greer has progressed to animal sacrifice at this stage,

It would be quite convenient if a few mutilated creatures did show up during a training session -an arse-cored cow, a dead ant, a squashed moth. But then I guess that Greer doesn't subscribe the the alien mutilation theory as the mere mention of it may scare off potential punters.

Capital idea torsion. Yes, a web-watch that might be fun. I'm in.

Greer's "aliens" are the meta-physical "good" aliens? Not the arse-coring abducting type of "bad" aliens - only us non-Greerians and the public get to hear about "bad" aliens. I wonder what a nerve-gas attack looks like? I wouldn't put it past him...

Vic

[edit on 31-5-2007 by V Kaminski]

Originally posted by torsion

Originally posted by millerman
I don't know, I think spying on them rather than participating with them would be in poor taste....

I didn't mean spy on the training session - simply go in the area and watch the skies. If he vectors any ufos they should be visible for miles around. Greer doesn't have exclusive rights to the mountain does he?

Don't tell me - the ufos only make themselves visible to those who hand over $800!

Aright, well will anyone volunteer to do this, to go camp out there in fairly close proximity to the CSETI training group with a camera and see what happens?

We could probably get 24 hour coverage of the web cam as ATSers cover the globe. Any 'activity' could be screen grabbed and analysed. It'll probably be worse than watching paint dry though... but at least we won't have paid $800 for the privelege!

Originally posted by V Kaminski
the arse-coring abducting type

Now I won't be able to sleep tonight........

Originally posted by torsion
We could probably get 24 hour coverage of the web cam as ATSers cover the globe. Any 'activity' could be screen grabbed and analysed. It'll probably be worse than watching paint dry though... but at least we won't have paid $800 for the privelege!

If I lived in California, then I would love to go to Mount Shasta, with some sirens, hooters, lights, bells, whistles, fireworks, jars of moths, balloons with blinking LEDs and anything else that I could set free. The Cult Greer vector party would experience all sorts of contacts that night. Maybe I could set up an arrangement with Leader Greer and receive a tithe for my efforts.

Then again, watching paint dry would probably hold more interest for me.

When is Greer next in the UK?

Originally posted by schuyler
ET, teejaw is just needling you and you keep falling for it. Relax. You don't seem to understand what a cult is. We've gone over this before. Wikipedia has a loooong article on what a "cult" is. millerman and I had a round of posts about this on a now-sunken thread. Go over to wiki and read the definition. I will point out that one of the characteristics of a cult is that its adherents typically insist it is not.

Well, by the definitions in the dictionary, the Roman Catholic Church is a Cult! And pretty much any group that gathers together with religious/spiritual overtones is a Cult!

I always understood the term to mean those groups where you are forced to live with the other followers and you aren't allowed to leave, like concerned family/friends have to come kidnap you in the middle of the night with some hired muscle in order to get you out of there, and then "deprogram" you for a few months/years/whatever. And, obviously CSETI is absolutely nothing like this; you go and camp out for a week, do whatever it is they do, and then you go home again.

But if you want to go by the defs in the dictionary and say that 20 or 30 people praying/meditating together in the desert is a Cult, then, so be it.... I can't exactly stop you!

I still want to know why a Disclosure Project works so hard to Not-Disclose. Isn't it ironic that a Disclosure Project makes you sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement. It's a contradiction in terms.

I've reviewed the NDA, and it looks like you are allowed to talk about what goes on, and capture photographs/video and use them - with written consent from CSETI.

I saw an explanation from tock about this in an old thread, and he said that the reason for this is so that CSETI can maintain some control over how the evidence is used, so that people can't do things like capture video footage and then turn around and sell it to make $$$, or make audiotapes of everything and then turn around and start selling audio-books, or use software to edit/distort the evidence, etc.

It makes sense to me! And if I were Greer I would probably do the same thing!

I mean, if you were an actor or celebrity or someone like that, and people were taking photographs and recording video footage of you - you'd want to retain some kind of legal control over how that footage is used, right? You wouldn't want paparazzi types editing/distorting it, selling it to tabloid-trash publications, using it to discredit you....

The Greer camp ALSO says the ET guys don't want them to be seen. Really? Then the Disclosure Project is the Non-Disclosure Project, right?

Well, no one has any control over what policies the ETs have in place when it comes to Contact. If they have policies where they jam up people's recording equipment before they will do things like move in to close range and signal back and forth and land, etc - then there's nothing Greer or anybody can do about that!

And indeed if you look at all the evidence that is available.... I don't recall ever seeing footage of a UFO signalling to the observer, or landing, or ETs getting out of their crafts, or bringing people aboard, etc.

So I think the "Burkes hypothesis" actually makes a lot of sense. People keep forgetting to put themselves in the ETs shoes and realize that they are sentient and cultured beings and they must have rules and laws and policies that govern their behavior, just as we do! If it turns out to be true that they have been purposely jamming up people's recording equipment - then that's not Greer or CSETI's fault!

The Greer Camp says pictures are rare because the ETs jam the cameras. OK, but that contradicts the 'fact' that the Greer Camp has lots of pictures. Which is it. Do you have pictures or not? You can't talk out of both sides of your mouth on this one. Get your story straight.

Well, they may have "lots" of pictures/footage - that aren't that spectacular in terms of what they actually depict. Like hundreds or thousands of pictures of the typical glowy lights in the sky that hover around and don't do anything especially exciting. The sort of stuff that's all over the Internet already.....