Iran to Israel: Don't attack Lebanon

Originally posted by ThePieMaN

OK MR realism....tell me then if you are so aware of Israels wrong doings what in the way of any type of sanctioning or boycotting has Israel ever recieved for any wrong doing other then not being able to take delivery of a certain plane after it was found out they were doing something illegal.


1. Anything ever done about settlement expansion?
2. Anything ever done about removal of the illegal wall on Palestinian lands to be placed on Israeli territory?
3. Whats being done about Kahanists operating freely in Israel and the USA? Are their bank accounts frozen? Is support to these known troublemakers listed on the terrorist watchlist been cut off?
4. Will the USA ever push Israel to have the nuke sites inspected? Do we know where they dispose of nuclear waste? is it done properly?
5. Dumping toxic wastes on plaestinian lands? Will it be stopped?
6. Redirecting settler raw sewage to Palestinian land and water supplies and even outright poisoning of water sources
7. Rebuilding of infrastructure. Airports, Ports,Electric, Water,Gasoline ,Fishing areas
8. The right of any Palestinian to return to his home, family and property

Are you serious?
You keep talking about those "Kahanists", for someone livinh outside of Israel, such as yourself, you sure do know about what is going on around here.
I can tell you that those "Kahanists" you are talking about are a small group of people that don't and can't do anything.
The Kahana political party was outlawed in Israel years ago, and so is the spreading of his agenda.
Freezing bank accounts? Supporting them? What the hell are you talking about? Who is supporting them, and in what way, may I ask?

Israel is entitled to Nuclear weapons as much as the United States is.
As long as it holds them to itself, in contradiction to Iran and its nuts leader, Ahmedinijad, that OPENLY STATES he WILL DESTROY ISRAEL.

"Dumping toxic wastes on plaestinian lands"? I seriously have no idea where are you getting your information from? Propaganda sites probably.
Not only that is a blatant lie, Israel could turn off electricity and and water supply to Gaza in a second, but won't. Want to know why? Because the water Gaza has is purified using ELECTRICITY! So no, Israel won't shut it off because it will eventually cause all water supplies to get contaminated.

"Redirecting settler raw sewage to Palestinian land and water supplies and even outright poisoning of water sources"?
Again, I would love to see your source for this.
On the other hand, when the Israeli settlers were pulled out, your beloved, poor Palestinians burned and destroyed every greenhouse that could be used to grow food. Why? Because it was JOOish.

You keep talking about what Israel does in Gaza, I would like to see how YOU would act if you were constantly shot at with rockets, had suicide bombings in your country and while walking on the street praying that nothing will blow up next to you.
Everything that Israel does inside of Gaza, or to its people or leadership is in DIRECT RESPONSE to a terrorist act done to it first.

Originally posted by Harlequin
you do know that Israel bombed a UN watch post don`t you?


and oooh a shepard , with his flock of sheep crossed the blue line - was he machine gunned and the soldiers had roast lamb for dinner? that sounds about right for the crap that goes on down there.

A Shepard might be just that, on the other hand he can very well be a terrorist.
Hezzbolla militants are disguised as civilians all the time, even the real civilians are FORCED by Hezzbolla to "gather intel." by getting as close to the border as possible to see when and how Israel will respond.

There was a story a couple of years back where a Palestinian woman from Gaza was taken to a hospital in Tel Aviv for a treatment she could not get elsewhere, the treatment included a number of visits to the Tel Aviv hospital, yet, in one of those visits she had strapped a bomb to herself in an attempt to blow up INSIDE THE HOSPITAL! Gratitude indeed.
Luckily, she was stopped at the checkpoint.

EDIT: Video of incident.



[edit on 25/5/2007 by Gramlengo]

[edit on 25/5/2007 by Gramlengo]

Pieman

I am not the one sitting there and embracing ignorance by making false claims that Israel never made overflights on Lebanon, but it was in Gaza.

You have made many false claims.. I did take back what I said, Israel invaded Lebanese airspace, but NOT in the manor you said, the report states a few sonic booms where generated but no proof it was on purpose.

but I'll stick to reality.

Your reality. Tell me. Are you Palestinian?

What any of that has to do with being racist, bigotry or anti-semetism I have no freekin clue.

Blatant anti-Israeli agenda...... and yes Pieman, you hate this country.

Your defense takes me back to the attack on Qana that because one idiot photoshopped an extra plume into some pic to make it appear more dramatic, that such an act would nullify any and all attrocities. I bet you still walk around denying those people died at the hands of Israeli weapons too.

In war, one should assume people will die.

I suggest you go have a look at the recently released report by Amnesty International

Oh my God. That was funny. Look at Amnesty International lol. Right. Because they are not left wing anti-American, anti-Israeli bigots them selves. Try actually reading Amnesty's "work" or lack there of, an agenda worn on their sleeves.

But of course, it should be expected that these are your sources.

Prince of Peace:

I just dont see how anyone on here can defend Hezbollah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al Queda, Iran, Syria with a straight face. Its so funny because im sure they love the freedom to be able to post it, but at the same time the people they support wouldnt allow them to speak their minds as freely. Hmmm.

Hypocracy. They have their own agenda, but won't admit it. Pieman would never admitt it, but he hates Israeli's and loves an Arab that can take a few out. Again makes me wonder.. he is certainly Palestinian, Lebanese.. just trying to figure out what it is that could make him HATE a people so much..

Pieman:

Thats why I posted it.

No it was not, you posted it because it talked about these "overflights" ... you made not a SINGLE mentioned about the rest.

If Lebanon had such a problem they should have shot them down, I have no sympathy to weak countries who bitch but don't act. Just because one is a victor in war does not make them evil, often its quite the opposite.

Keep defending them tho they absolutely need all the help they can get.

Through vile hate and foolish rantings, you refuse to read the meanings and not the words of my post. Never did I "defend" Israel, I am telling you the FACTS as pointed out by your own freaking link for crying out loud that YOU manipulated. Rather sad. I don't defend Israel, but I don't defend radical ignorance of a Jihad movement of a bunch of backwards militants either. Unlike yourself.

Im sure Rachel Corrie and many other westerners who went there to advocate for peace and got killed for it would absolutely agree with me on that.

LOL is that the retarded woman who got smashed by a bulldozer? What a moron, honestly, I see no harm in her demise. The house was to be demolished because it supported terrorism. Its the way of it.. some westerner had no right to try and intervene, as a result she died because she actually thought someone gave a damn about her self righteous cause.

You are the type of people I look down upon.

You are the type of people I look down upon. Hypocracy and self righteous bigotry, you support murderers, Jihadist, fools, radical ignorance, the continuation of war against Israel and terrorism. And left wingers pretend they are better then everyone else, thats what makes me laugh.

I've lived here all my life and Im more American then you will ever be.

Please. Your the type of American that supports Amnesty International. IMO, nuff said.

Originally posted by Gramlengo

Are you serious?
You keep talking about those "Kahanists", for someone livinh outside of Israel, such as yourself, you sure do know about what is going on around here.
I can tell you that those "Kahanists" you are talking about are a small group of people that don't and can't do anything.
The Kahana political party was outlawed in Israel years ago, and so is the spreading of his agenda.
Freezing bank accounts? Supporting them? What the hell are you talking about? Who is supporting them, and in what way, may I ask?

Are they outlawed or are they a small group of people? I see posts by many of them on Israeli news sites. If they are in existence even in small numbers they are entitled to the same treatment as any other terrorist group.

Israel is entitled to Nuclear weapons as much as the United States is.
As long as it holds them to itself, in contradiction to Iran and its nuts leader, Ahmedinijad, that OPENLY STATES he WILL DESTROY ISRAEL.

Thats your opinion. You feel that your corrupted government is responsible or its people sane enough I say they are just as mad after all these years of war and death.

"Dumping toxic wastes on plaestinian lands"? I seriously have no idea where are you getting your information from? Propaganda sites probably.
Not only that is a blatant lie, Israel could turn off electricity and and water supply to Gaza in a second, but won't. Want to know why? Because the water Gaza has is purified using ELECTRICITY! So no, Israel won't shut it off because it will eventually cause all water supplies to get contaminated.

Oh yes absolutely propaganda sites and Im sure next you will say Pro-nazi antisemetic sites. Sorry to burst your bubble but I read humanitarian, and news sites to get my information.

"Redirecting settler raw sewage to Palestinian land and water supplies and even outright poisoning of water sources"?
Again, I would love to see your source for this.
On the other hand, when the Israeli settlers were pulled out, your beloved, poor Palestinians burned and destroyed every greenhouse that could be used to grow food. Why? Because it was JOOish.

My Beloved Palestinians? Your hated Palestinians. Yeah I don't know what to tell you there bud, I guess its obvious that the hatred you have for them is just as ingrained in them after 60 years of constant fighting. What can I tell you?

You keep talking about what Israel does in Gaza, I would like to see how YOU would act if you were constantly shot at with rockets, had suicide bombings in your country and while walking on the street praying that nothing will blow up next to you.
Everything that Israel does inside of Gaza, or to its people or leadership is in DIRECT RESPONSE to a terrorist act done to it first.

I dunno what to tell you. I cant imagine what it would be like to live under 377 days of forced curfews, walled enclaves, checkpoints, IAF bombers , watch towers with snipers, tanks , constant military harrassment, and exit/ entry point closures. I can tell you this much. Your past history is enough to tell me that your people did not like this sort of treatment much in the same way and their reactions were much the very same and they did not have 1/2 the things done to them that the current day Palestinians have done to them. If your ancestors who first emigrated to then-British mandate Palestine to be treated in such a manner following post-Nazi holocaust I could never picture how they would have felt. I do know even with the treatment of being placed under British authority they fought back and terrorized the British until they left. They hung British soldiers, bombed british interests and terrorized British military. Go have a look at the plaque that Natanyahoo recently dedicated to the memory of Irgun members that bombed the King David Hotel . One mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist.

But the view of the attack was very different in 1946 when The Times branded the Irgun “terrorists in disguise”. Decades later, Irgun veterans are unrepentant. Sarah Agassi, 80, remembers spying in the King David Hotel.

She and a fellow agent posed as a couple. They danced tangos and waltzes, sipped whisky and wine while they cased out the hotel.

On the day her brother and his fellow fighters posed as Arabs delivering milk and brought seven milk churns, each containing 50kg of explosives, into the building. Ms Agassi waited across the street until her brother rushed out. She said that she then made the warning call to the British command in the hotel.

Sitting in the luxurious hotel lobby, she expressed no regret. “We fought for our independence. We thought it was the right way . . . If I had to fight for Israel, I swear even now I would do anything.”

Sound Familiar?

Originally posted by Rockpuck

You have made many false claims.. I did take back what I said, Israel invaded Lebanese airspace, but NOT in the manor you said, the report states a few sonic booms where generated but no proof it was on purpose.


but I'll stick to reality.

Sorry but I have to again deny your ignorance on this. If you actually believe that a trained pilot doesn't know when his plane creates sonic booms when he's flying low over residential areas? I also said that what I posted was ONE REPORT amongst many. OVER ONE THOUSAND OVERFLIGHTS were recorded. If you also read the report I posted it said the Israelis were aware of the UNFIL watchful eyes and often avoided them , so there were also many other unrecorded events. Deep into Lebanon. Including Christian areas that had nothing to do with terrorism or Hizbollah

Your reality. Tell me. Are you Palestinian?

Anyones reality. Are you Israeli? Im not Palestinian. Should it matter?

Your opinion and going by all your past responses it doesn't really matter because you absolutely have no clue as to whats going on and you are just pissed off that I don't stick up for the Israelis as you do blindly.

LOL is that the retarded woman who got smashed by a bulldozer? What a moron, honestly, I see no harm in her demise. The house was to be demolished because it supported terrorism. Its the way of it.. some westerner had no right to try and intervene, as a result she died because she actually thought someone gave a damn about her self righteous cause.

Retarded woman? You have stooped to new lows here. I do not believe you have said that about a fellow American who just went to aid the Palestinian people and was murdered for her Peace activism. I think its disgusting. Hey Rock let me ask you something were the USS LIberty crewman retards too because they placed themselves under Israeli machine guns?

You are the type of people I look down upon. Hypocracy and self righteous bigotry, you support murderers, Jihadist, fools, radical ignorance, the continuation of war against Israel and terrorism. And left wingers pretend they are better then everyone else, thats what makes me laugh.

After your last little "Retard" line.....as they say..WHAT EVERrrrr

Please. Your the type of American that supports Amnesty International. IMO, nuff said.

Yeah that anti-semetic anti-israel organization...don't you just hate them. Must really put a damper on all your fun that they can rat your buddies out for all their wrongdoings all the time. What a drag huh? Must really be a bitch to have organizations like Amnesty International , HRW and all those other treehuggers like BTSelem spoiling all your fun. Gone are the good ole days when they could just randomly kill people and no one was the wiser for it. Such is life rocky. Get used to it.

PieMan, you haven't answered any of my points.
All you do is hide behind the idea that those are "my opinions", not one concrete contradiction.
About those posts of Kahanists on Israeli news sites, care to link to any?
And those humanitarian web sites you keep talking about, are they Amnesty sites? Because if they are, you ARE reading propaganda. Just recently they ran this pole:



They aren't biased at all, are they?

I really wish people would wake up and realize the difference between being pro-freedom/anti-bush, and being anti-American.

Quite frankly, every time I hear the term 'anti-American' I stop taking that person seriously. You lose ALL credibility the moment you utter those words to describe a person or organization. Do yourself a favor, and point out what they are actually against, not an entire continent.

"I hate the people, soil, resources, and every piece of matter and ideals that exist in America"
^^^ That would be anti-American.

The very use of the term 'anti-American' is propaganda in one of the worst forms. It can be used to denounce anyone for anything... regardless of their views, because obviously, one of their views will differ from something another American thinks.

So, seriously, stop using that term. Every time you use the term against someone, you make yourself look not only uninformed, but ignorant.

[edit on 25-5-2007 by johnsky]

Namecalling makes an excellent substitute for debate.

Why discuss the issues at hand when you can portray your opponents as anti-semites, or "anti-American"?

It's a way of sidestepping the facts and avoiding a rational discussion.
Sadly, people are much more responsive to emotional needs than to logic.
It's just the way human beings are wired.

Originally posted by Gramlengo
PieMan, you haven't answered any of my points.
All you do is hide behind the idea that those are "my opinions", not one concrete contradiction.
About those posts of Kahanists on Israeli news sites, care to link to any?
And those humanitarian web sites you keep talking about, are they Amnesty sites? Because if they are, you ARE reading propaganda. Just recently they ran this pole:



They aren't biased at all, are they?

You read Littlegreenfootballs huh..Of course you would.
Great site.

As for the Kahanists. Go read Haaretz/JPost/Ynet news and you will see them all posting in the talkbacks on a constant basis.

EDIT TO ADD Specifically for Gramlengo:

I recieved a letter in My Jewish Voice for Peace Newsletter but I had forgotten where I saw the article.

Masada2000.org hate website still fighting for life
Infamous Masada2000 Kahanist website was up, then down, then up, now down again (thanks to Richard Silverstein). Menachem Wecker, tried talking to the folks who created Masada2000 and interviewed 75 of the 8,000 Jews who appear on the S.H.I.T. List (Self-Hating and/or Israel-Threatening). Yes, this is the famously Arab-, Muslim- and Jew-hating, pornographic website put up by followers of American-born Rabbi Meir Kahane, whose political party Kach was outlawed in Israel and named a terrorist group by the US, but whose spirit clearly lives on.

Source: Muzzle Watch Tracking efforts to stifle open debate about US-Israeli foreign policy



[edit on 25-5-2007 by ThePieMaN]

PieMan,
I do read LittleGreenFootballs, but I also visit ATS, which by all means doesn't mean I agree with everything BOTH sites are discussing.
I also visit DailyKos, Ynet (which happens to be my homepage) and many more.
I don't see anything wrong with visiting sites that are on either side of the political map, actually, I think it's better then not visiting any.
Ynet may have some comments from extremists from both sides, but then again, those are just talk-back comments, nothing really official or even credible. Unless you consider "FIRST!!!1" to be a good source of info.


And once more, I live in Israel so I see first hand what is happening over here, even if I stumble upon a biased news source, I have enough first-hand info to filter the bias out, and while you keep making claims of "Kahanists whose spirit clearly lives on" I am telling you those are false claims.
Sure, there are some ultra-religious regions in Jerusalem that want to "throw every Arab into the sea", in the words of Meir Kahana, most people won't even take them seriously. Just as you won't take any other extremist seriously.
To be honest, despite what you might think, I am leaning towards the left of the political map, and am all for peace (at almost any cost) but comments by people like yourself who claim to know the real situation by reading "unbiased news" without actually bothering to even try and view the other side, make me really angry.
Even your signature is disgusting, it reveals your true intentions - Make Israel look bad at all costs, no questions asked, no other opinion respected.
You may be better than me at getting your opinion across using words, but in my eyes, your opinion will never be really worth anything.
Good day.

Originally posted by Gramlengo

And once more, I live in Israel so I see first hand what is happening over here, even if I stumble upon a biased news source, I have enough first-hand info to filter the bias out, and while you keep making claims of "Kahanists whose spirit clearly lives on" I am telling you those are false claims.
Sure, there are some ultra-religious regions in Jerusalem that want to "throw every Arab into the sea", in the words of Meir Kahana, most people won't even take them seriously. Just as you won't take any other extremist seriously.
To be honest, despite what you might think, I am leaning towards the left of the political map, and am all for peace (at almost any cost) but comments by people like yourself who claim to know the real situation by reading "unbiased news" without actually bothering to even try and view the other side, make me really angry.
Even your signature is disgusting, it reveals your true intentions - Make Israel look bad at all costs, no questions asked, no other opinion respected.
You may be better than me at getting your opinion across using words, but in my eyes, your opinion will never be really worth anything.
Good day.

Just because you live over there doesn't mean you are in the know any more or less then I am. It also doesn't mean you have to be any more or less honest about it either.

OK you can claim they are false claims..I know and have seen otherwise. I've seen American advertisements for Meir Kahane rememberence gatherings...so deny away. Somehow I think I will take other opinions over yours and others here who consistently try to deny and make Israel appear morally higher then their counterparts.

You have already mentioned my signature prior to this and I believe Ihave already explained myself. I do not have to support a country that in my opinion is not deserving of my hard earned cash to kill other humans. If the United states reacted to Israel much in the way we did in Apartheid South Africa I believe it would give extra incentive for them to change their tune. That however is not happening, so I do it myself. Sorry if it bothers you. Its supposed to. Its a shame to me that you aren't so vocal and disgusted when it comes to all the killing that your government sponsors and is responsible for when it comes to innocent people, yet my tagline disgusts you. You who's very own ancestors have been mistreated and abused at the hands of many, should be above all countries to know when violence such as whats occuring in palestine is wrong.


So lets not even go there because your disgust is misdirected...it should be pointed inwards.

I really do not care wether or not you favor my opinion. Your concern is for your homeland and nothing else. A selfish person is not my idea of someone I Need to impress.



[edit on 26-5-2007 by ThePieMaN]

Originally posted by sbob
Why doesn't Iran tell Syria to stay out of Lebanon?

Syria occupied parts of Lebanon for over tow decades. Iran set up shop with hezbollah.

Good point and when the Lebanese Prime Minsiter wanted Syria out, the Syrians killed him and other bystanders with a massive car bomb. Where was Iran then to protet Lebanese sovereignty.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
Just because you live over there doesn't mean you are in the know any more or less then I am. It also doesn't mean you have to be any more or less honest about it either.

No offense you can read all the books or websites on the internet you want, but you will never know as much as someone who has actually lived in a place and experienced the culture first hand. I;m not saying the poster is wrong or right, just that a person who has seen these things first hand generally does know more.

[edit on 26-5-2007 by mad scientist]

Originally posted by mad scientist

Originally posted by sbob
Why doesn't Iran tell Syria to stay out of Lebanon?

Syria occupied parts of Lebanon for over tow decades. Iran set up shop with hezbollah.

Good point and when the Lebanese Prime Minsiter wanted Syria out, the Syrians killed him and other bystanders with a massive car bomb. Where was Iran then to protet Lebanese sovereignty.

The same place Israel and USA was.

Also can you please post a link to the UN site that finalized the Hariri investigation? I wasn't aware that they finished it. I would like to read the final report. Im really surprised they found out who did it since a few of Lebanons surrounding neighbors openly admit to political assasinations as a weapon. Rafiq Hariri often defended Hizbollah attacks on Israeli positions in Shebaa farms. We already know through past experience what happens to politicians that allow these sort of things to happen on israeli soil. That bomb was not something most in the Middle East would have thought to be capable by any syrian assassin. Im really surprised they came to a final conclusion as you stated. I thought it could have went either way, or was that possibly just your opinion?. I look forward to reading the report if this is the case.

Pieman,

This is a serious question. I am not trying to be inflamatory, rather expressing my own ignorance. I have heard stuff about the USS Liberty for a long time, and it just doesn't make sense to me (if it were a deliberate attack) why Israel would do such a thing. I've given some cursory internet reasearch to it in the past, but admit that I am no expert. So tell me, cui bono.

1. They were at the time engaged in a war against Egypt, Syria, and Jordon. All of who was being heavily backed by the Soviets.
2. LBJ was perhaps the greatest supporter of Israel that we have ever had in the White House when you consider what Israeli-American relations were before and after he came to office.
3. The US obviously had no intention to invade Israel, and even if they did, they didn't have the forces in the region necessary to do it.
4. Even then the US was offering some foreign aide to Israel, and taking down a US ship could certainly have given a congressman who was already skeptical of foreign aide an excuse to stop it.

On June 4 (the day before the war) Israel asked the US if it had any ships in the region and it responded no (because at that time it didn't). On June 5 Israel informed the US it would attack any unidentified ships on its coast, but the US made the decision not to reveal the LIberty. After the ship was hit (and Israel claimed that it was identified as American) the same Israeli ship that hit it offered assistance.

I guess that I am just saying that it seems like Friendly Fire, I meand my goodness, the US has targeted and brought down British aircraft, but its not like we are trying to send them a message.

Please don't ignore this as me trying to start a flame war, I am just interested in the thoughts of someone who say it was a purposeful attack. It seems pretty clear to me that it wasn't, but I am sure that in your eyes I am missing something important.

EDIT -- Clarity

[edit on 26-5-2007 by XBadger]

Originally posted by XBadger
Pieman,

This is a serious question. I am not trying to be inflamatory, rather expressing my own ignorance. I have heard stuff about the USS Liberty for a long time, and it just doesn't make sense to me (if it were a deliberate attack) why Israel would do such a thing.

Well there are probably other threads on the Liberty here. We have already strayed off topic. Anyway why take my word or opinion when you can get it straight from the horses mouth. Read and decide for yourself. I know I did.

www.ussliberty.org...

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
Rafiq Hariri often defended Hizbollah attacks on Israeli positions in Shebaa farms. We already know through past experience what happens to politicians that allow these sort of things to happen on israeli soil.

HE also wanted Syria out of the Bekaa Valley.

That bomb was not something most in the Middle East would have thought to be capable by any syrian assassin.

Not have thought capable of why ? Seems blunt enough for the Syrians. IS this just your personal opinion or have you actually read this somewhere.

Hariri is not someone th Israeli's would want to assassinate as he was so opposed to the Syrian occupation of Lebanon. Something which the Israeli's are as well.

where is there any evidence what so ever that PIE MAN is in support of IRAN or syria



you blabber mouths spouting disinformation first are a joke and the majority w/o personal biases can seel thru your utter crap

SO the guy has the balls to admit we are isreali ass kissers in america and that the policy's and situations this causes us is a big reason for the unneccessary troubles this country continues to find it self in. But there is no way out when a mere 2% of the population is jewish but jewish people happen to have complete media control of america.
and thus dictate the opinions of the "gentile's" , and combined with the fact that the

Zionists now different from jewish but significant overlap combined with the NAzi's and sold out millions of there own "jewish brethern" in the holocaust

and then united states interest's shipped hundred's of these zionist/nazi SS scientists over to america after the war (operation paperclip) and placed them in high levels of intelligence agency's like FBI, CIA, Militiary, who do you think conducted MK ULTRA (google it) and the fact that the zionists pullled the wool over there own "jewish brethern" and continue to place them into positions of power makes it all the more difficult for the jewish non zionists to see thru the facade and even want to for that matter because they would be labeled a self-hating jew or lose there wealthy life style.
so jewish non zionists in this country seem to have the fast track to "success" wealth and career thanks to the frame work provided for them by the zionists who dictate isreali and thus to a large extent american foreign policy. so the jewish are stuck in a tuff situation by the zionists. do u go to school and accept the fast track (you will be hired and have a "tendancy" to rapidly move up the latter) and the zionist policys and control is in place so that you will never get in trouble for it- however by doing this and by being part of this you become more dependant on the very people who sold them out during the holocaust not to mention provide a "camoflage for the zionists" to hide behind

making a deal with the devil

and when you see life from a perspective like this you can start to see how horrible things like man made AIDS as population weapons as well as economic weapons and child kidnapping rings, and human sex rings, and manipulation of economies by international bankers, and the corrupt drug care (pharma) industry are possible thanks to zionist (not jewish) control






[edit on 26-5-2007 by cpdaman]

[edit on 26-5-2007 by cpdaman]

Originally posted by ThePieMaN

Just because you live over there doesn't mean you are in the know any more or less then I am. It also doesn't mean you have to be any more or less honest about it either.

OK you can claim they are false claims..I know and have seen otherwise. I've seen American advertisements for Meir Kahane rememberence gatherings...so deny away. Somehow I think I will take other opinions over yours and others here who consistently try to deny and make Israel appear morally higher then their counterparts.

You have already mentioned my signature prior to this and I believe Ihave already explained myself. I do not have to support a country that in my opinion is not deserving of my hard earned cash to kill other humans. If the United states reacted to Israel much in the way we did in Apartheid South Africa I believe it would give extra incentive for them to change their tune. That however is not happening, so I do it myself. Sorry if it bothers you. Its supposed to. Its a shame to me that you aren't so vocal and disgusted when it comes to all the killing that your government sponsors and is responsible for when it comes to innocent people, yet my tagline disgusts you. You who's very own ancestors have been mistreated and abused at the hands of many, should be above all countries to know when violence such as whats occuring in palestine is wrong.


So lets not even go there because your disgust is misdirected...it should be pointed inwards.

I really do not care wether or not you favor my opinion. Your concern is for your homeland and nothing else. A selfish person is not my idea of someone I Need to impress.

I am glad you took the time to respond to my post, in all fairness I have to say I really don't have anything against you, or any other person that has a different opinion than mine. After all, this is a discussion.
What bothers me though is that you keep talking about those Kahanists.
I never said they, or other supporters of Meir Kahana don't exist, the only thing I'm saying is that they do not have any more power than any other extremist minority, i.e - KKK, JonesTown cooks or whatever.
Your claim that they actually can do anything meaningful is wrong.
The US itself allows NeoNazi rallies and gatherings, but do you actually think they have any power?
Also, you keep claiming that Israel is the aggressor in this entire episode, either because you don't know the facts, or don't care about them.
I have said before, the IDF/IAF strike in Gaza (or any other place for that matter) in retaliation to prior attacks on Israelis or Israeli soil.
For the past couple of months Sderot and the western Negev zone has been constantly bombarded with Qassam and mortar rounds, the reason for that is debatable, yet Israel kept its doctrine of not attacking Gaza nor "invading" it.
Only the past week the IAF started working inside Gaza, attacking only militants (and rest assured, I do not agree with the killing of innocent Palestinians, in any way.) and militant outpost, Qassam lunching sites and such.
You think thats disproportioned response? If so, your living in a fairy tale.

Originally posted by mad scientist
HE also wanted Syria out of the Bekaa Valley.

Yes I realize that and he also wanted Israel out of Lebanon too...so your point? You are trying to tell me that Syrians are the only ones capable of assasination? Can I just remind you of the situation last summer when Israeli fighter jets flew right over the Syrian Presidential residence after their soldiers were kidnapped by Hizbollah. Israel is just as capable of killing just as Syria is.

Not have thought capable of why ? Seems blunt enough for the Syrians. IS this just your personal opinion or have you actually read this somewhere.

Hariri is not someone th Israeli's would want to assassinate as he was so opposed to the Syrian occupation of Lebanon. Something which the Israeli's are as well.

Yes it is my opinion and it is the opinion of others as well. I didn't make the statement as though it was factual like you did regarding the syrians.
You are right, Yes hariri wanted them out (as did most Lebanese) but like I said before he also was not very sympathetic when it came to Israeli intervention either...such as flyovers , and Hizbollah attacks on Israelis in contested Lebanese land went pretty much right by him as well. We saw a mass punishment of Lebanese civilians for the acts of Hizbollah last summer and you think that Israel isn't capable to take out a measly leader with a explosive device? Israel/Lebanon/Syria are still technically in a state of war since 1948. It could be anyone including a disgruntled militant group within Lebanon as well. Its not the first time a political figure was assasinated in lebanon. I believe in the past Slayman Franjia and Pierre Gemayel were also assassinated. I myself as a 12 year old boy was able to walk right up to Slayman Franjia who was sitting on the veranda of the "White House" having tea to shake his hand and it was only a few steps away before security even intervened before they realized I walked right up the the lawn directly to him.



[edit on 26-5-2007 by ThePieMaN]

Originally posted by Gramlengo

I am glad you took the time to respond to my post, in all fairness I have to say I really don't have anything against you, or any other person that has a different opinion than mine. After all, this is a discussion.
What bothers me though is that you keep talking about those Kahanists.
I never said they, or other supporters of Meir Kahana don't exist, the only thing I'm saying is that they do not have any more power than any other extremist minority, i.e - KKK, JonesTown cooks or whatever.
Your claim that they actually can do anything meaningful is wrong.
The US itself allows NeoNazi rallies and gatherings, but do you actually think they have any power?

Yes I do. The settlers make up a portion of the army! Its like a an army within an army. Don't compare the USA with over 300million people to a country with a mere 6million+, and one which conscripts anyone over the age of 18.

Also, you keep claiming that Israel is the aggressor in this entire episode, either because you don't know the facts, or don't care about them.
I have said before, the IDF/IAF strike in Gaza (or any other place for that matter) in retaliation to prior attacks on Israelis or Israeli soil.
For the past couple of months Sderot and the western Negev zone has been constantly bombarded with Qassam and mortar rounds, the reason for that is debatable, yet Israel kept its doctrine of not attacking Gaza nor "invading" it.

I never made the claim that Israel is the agressor in the entire episode. I made the claim that Israel is not just the innocent victim as many do try to claim. So far what have you admitted to? Nada...you even deny there exists a problem with terrorists within your own ranks.

You see, you say you live there but meanwhile I've seen pictures of Palestine and videos of Palestine and although you say Sderot and the Negev have had rocket fire , I doubt very much they look like the bullet ridden and pock marked Gaza strip. Disproportionate comes to mind here.
Not attacking or invading it? LOL Thats because they are there already, they never left and its under attack on a daily basis. Are those huge watchtowers manned by snipers sitting there with rose petals? Do you have Palestinian tanks rolling down your street in your little part of Israel shooting at your house? Do you have to pass through any Palestinian checkpoints? Do you have to pass by any Palestinian armymen at checkpoints so you can go to the next town over? They never invaded?? LOL They are there constantly why would they HAVE to invade!?

Only the past week the IAF started working inside Gaza, attacking only militants (and rest assured, I do not agree with the killing of innocent Palestinians, in any way.) and militant outpost, Qassam lunching sites and such.

You are joking me right? The IAF are there every day flying around.

You think thats disproportioned response? If so, your living in a fairy tale.

Nah hell ...throw a stone and use a howitzer in response is always a fair way to deal with kids, and throw a Qassam at a cow you get a 500lb missile in the middle of a populated city should always be considered a fair retaliation and if 1 Israeli should die , then not only should the 3 that killed her die but at least 7 more people in the immediate vicinity should as well. Hey IM a fair guy. No fairy tales for me. Im a meat and potatos kinda guy.