Where does a magnet get its energy?

Hey all!

I have a question on the origin of the force of magnets. If energy can never be created, or destroyed... Where does a magnet get its energy from?
So far this is the best answer to this question that I have found.

By the existence of the magnetic force. If you do nothing with the magnet, nothing from its energy will be noticed, but the characteristic of energy is, that it "occurs" when a pressure (force) is applied. That means: only if the magnet is e.g. moved in a field, something will happen - what we call the occurence of energy.

The magnetic force itself is in every material which is made up from atoms. This is due to the movement of the electrons around a core - simply explained. But in magnets, this so-called magnetic moment of almost all atoms shows in an equal direction, so the magnetic force is "noticeable".

This seems to make sense to me kind of, but I still have one problem with it; The theory will work with all ferrous materials, but if I somehow aligned all of the charges in the atomic structure of a wooden 2X4 would that make it magnetic too?

I've been asking myself this question for years and I've never yet come up with an answer or even a theory that seems make total sense..

Thanks for any ideas
JTA

Here is a full and more importantly, an understandable explanation ...

How Magnets Work

Semper

this is interesting...diamagnatism
I think thats how Yeshua walked on water

en.wikipedia.org...

A live frog levitates inside a 32 mm diameter vertical bore of a Bitter solenoid in a magnetic field of about 16 teslas at the Nijmegen High Field Magnet Laboratory
www.hfml.ru.nl...

Originally posted by jta79
Hey all! I have a question on the origin of the force of magnets. If energy can never be created, or destroyed... Where does a magnet get its energy from? So far this is the best answer to this question that I have found.

The magnet/dipole gates energy from a apparent higher dimension and since Tom Bearden has decided on the 'time' dimension i'll am working from that basis myself.

By the existence of the magnetic force. If you do nothing with the magnet, nothing from its energy will be noticed, but the characteristic of energy is, that it "occurs" when a pressure (force) is applied. That means: only if the magnet is e.g. moved in a field, something will happen - what we call the occurence of energy.

This seems to make sense to me kind of, but I still have one problem with it; The theory will work with all ferrous materials, but if I somehow aligned all of the charges in the atomic structure of a wooden 2X4 would that make it magnetic too?

That is a good 'catch' and it's good that you do not believe everything you read. Fact is permanent magnets and magnetism itself are not explained and apparently not at all well understood by those who pretend to do so.

I've been asking myself this question for years and I've never yet come up with an answer or even a theory that seems make total sense..

Thanks for any ideas

JTA

Well feel free to go to any number of science/physics forums and ask them how your fridge magnet works. Be nice thought as pointing out their ignorance is unlikely to extend your stay on any given forum...

I know i had a list somewhere but it seems to missing now; will look for it.

Stellar

hello, if you want to know how magnets work, there is a theory put out by Edward Leedskalnin, he basicaly sais that our formal understanding of electricity is wrong.

Read his book Magnetic current.
its free on the internet. its full of experiments that backs up what he sais.

its very interesting.

Give it a read. maybe it will solve your problem.

well thats what I was taught, what the last two post said.
Our understanding of these things in texts is not adequate.
the theorys are just that theories..
the ability to still ask deeper questions is important.
cheers

Semperfort pointed to an excellent site that does a good job of explaining magnetism.

Originally posted by jta79
I have a question on the origin of the force of magnets. If energy can never be created, or destroyed... Where does a magnet get its energy from?

It's more similar to gravity than to energy waves. It is a property of something ... and yes, the molecules actually do drift out of alignment so that magnetism does decay over time.

This seems to make sense to me kind of, but I still have one problem with it; The theory will work with all ferrous materials, but if I somehow aligned all of the charges in the atomic structure of a wooden 2X4 would that make it magnetic too?

No, because wood is not something made up of just one molecule but of a whole bunch of other molecules. You can generate magnetism in some non-ferrous substances, but not in something where the molecules aren't the same kind and the same shape.

You can read about some of the different types of magnets here:
www.rare-earth-magnets.com...

Not everything can be turned magnetic, but apparently carbon can be magnetic under certain circumstances:
www.newscientist.com...

No, because wood is not something made up of just one molecule but of a whole bunch of other molecules. You can generate magnetism in some non-ferrous substances, but not in something where the molecules aren't the same kind and the same shape.

does that include my diamagentic post and floating frogs?

Originally posted by junglelord
does that include my diamagentic post and floating frogs?

Yep. Dimagnetism can only be created in an already existing magnetic field (induced magnetism.) This means that the materials aren't showing any form of magnetism and that when they are put in the proper situation, the magnetic field they generate is only in proportion to the field that made them dimagnetic.

And it's the water molecules in and on the frog's body that are causing it to levitate. They might not be as successful with, say, a mouse. Remove the water molecules and the frog won't levitate.

Magnets do give and take energy though don't they?

If not how do you work out the simple fact a piece of metal is attracted, if you put a magnet above a piece of metal it fly's up to it meaning the magnet does some work, by doing so it must have lost energy somehow surely?

Originally posted by just theory
Magnets do give and take energy though don't they?

If not how do you work out the simple fact a piece of metal is attracted, if you put a magnet above a piece of metal it fly's up to it meaning the magnet does some work, by doing so it must have lost energy somehow surely?

No, it works like gravity. The earth doesn't lose gravity because we are attracted by Earth's gravity.

Originally posted by Byrd
It's more similar to gravity than to energy waves. It is a property of something ... and yes, the molecules actually do drift out of alignment so that magnetism does decay over time.

I never thought of magnets in this manner. Do they draw their power from some higher dimension much like gravity does? Thinking of gravity and magnetism in the same manner, they both appear to have an endless supply of energy. The Earth would pull in an unlimited amount of material that found itself in the Earth's field of influence. Even as we speak the Earth is pulling on objects keeping them locked onto the surface despite the high speed rotation. If we only gave the Earth an age of 100,000,000 years that's still an enormous amount of energy.

Would a magnet eventually grow weaker? If you have two magnets close to each other, say one on either side of a wooden table, does the energy that's used to hold them together give off any heat? I suppose not or else we would have a near endless supply of energy from these. Obviously a great deal of energy is expended to attract or repel magnets from each other. But where does all this energy go to? Back into the ether of some other dimension I suppose. *shrugs*

right on StellarX

this is the concept StellarX is referring to.... in video format.

www.youtube.com...

you can google for more videos and the company "Steorn

Originally posted by Indellkoffer

No, it works like gravity. The earth doesn't lose gravity because we are attracted by Earth's gravity.

Exactly, that's the thing, it does work yet loses no force energy, its like your taught in physics a thing called 'potential' energy which is not much better than saying 'imaginary' energy, e.g. when you lift a weight from the ground and put it on a table, by doing that you've somehow mysteriously given it 'potential' energy to fall back down due to gravity, this to me seems utterly unconvincing and i have looked into it.

So ok does it also count for facts like, imagine you have an asteroid slowly moving along with very little kinetic energy, it passes by and gets attracted to a large planet but flys off into a long but degrading orbit, eventually after many orbits it smashes into the planet releasing megatons of energy, where does that come from if not from the powerful pull of gravity on an object which never was originally on the surface of the planet? in fact the planet would have gained heat, mass and a slightly higher gravitational pull as well, work that one out!

Originally posted by just theory
when you lift a weight from the ground and put it on a table, by doing that you've somehow mysteriously given it 'potential' energy to fall back down due to gravity

What's really odd is if you lift that object a little further, say 100 miles out past the space station, all that potential energy is gone. It would go from megatons of force to none....just a cold object floating in space. You're right about the asteroid impact. All the energy for the explosion comes from the earth itself. This whole concept is quite unsettling and mocks the laws of thermodynamics.

Originally posted by dbatesI never thought of magnets in this manner. Do they draw their power from some higher dimension much like gravity does?

That's a new one on me. All the material I've run into says that gravity is a property of this universe and this reality.

Thinking of gravity and magnetism in the same manner, they both appear to have an endless supply of energy.

It's somewhat misleading to think of them in that way.

Would a magnet eventually grow weaker?

Depends on the type of thing that's been generating the magnetic force. Stars keep their magnetic fields going for billions of years. The Earth's magnetic field has been around for about 5 billion years... though these fields do weaken and flip-flop.

Ferrous materials and ferromagnets eventually get weaker as the atoms come out of their alignment.

If you have two magnets close to each other, say one on either side of a wooden table, does the energy that's used to hold them together give off any heat?

No. You can try it for yourself.

Obviously a great deal of energy is expended to attract or repel magnets from each other. But where does all this energy go to? Back into the ether of some other dimension I suppose. *shrugs*

Thinking of it as that kind of energy is misleading. It's a passive property... like potential energy. Until you do something with it, it's doesn't generate anything.

Like a rock on a cliffside. The rock has a huge amount of potential energy but isn't changed into kinetic energy until you shove it off the cliff. Once it lands, it has no more potential energy. Same thing with a magnet.

Did that make sense?

Actually Ed L is right, say you have a mono pole magnet.

It will have lets say a potential value of 100 graviton units

Now you use the magnet to do some "work" lifting an inverse "polarity" object.

Your magnet will momentarily lose some potential value. But since we are not conducting this ecperiment in the vaccum of space devoid of any other "atmospheric" or material objects we can safely say there is a sea of potential energy "donors".

The magnet not only attracts things you can see such as iron, steel etc but thing you can not see such as individual atoms in the air and the air is charged with all kinds of energy spectrum waves from sun light to radio and cellular transmission waves.

So when the magnet loses momentary potential it immediately replacs it with "energy/gravitons" from an impacting free air atom or molecule, thus "filling" up the magnet back to its maximum potential value.

This mono pole magnet will start to decay when coming into contact with a stronger inverse pole object. Such as an object with a larger "south" charge. Even an object that shows no sign of magnetisim may have a higgh potential charge in either mono or dipole orientation.

(edit: I forgot to mention all objects have "energy/gravitons" but objects that are non-ferrous have equal "north/south" or opposing potential field values thus when coming into contact with say a "north" magnet the object is equally attracted and repelled at the same time thus negating any preceived "magnetic influence".... if a mometarily depleated north magnet comes into contact with such an object the magnet will draw "north" or complimentary orientation "energy/gravitons" from the object leaving the object with a temporary un-equal "south" charge orientation.. we can directly observe this phenomena with the affects of static electricity on the human body)


Ed L wrote that he could manipulate the charging orientation of even common non ferrous materials momentarily. He conducted experiments where he could also "short circuit" the apparent magnetisim of a magnet by influencing the field around the magnet with an object with greater and inverse pole orientation. He also explained how he could make magnets by influencing the field between two like pole oriented materials where the lesser potential charged item comes into contact with the higher potential charged item. Demenstrating both persistant (non momentary) magnetisim and momentary magnetisim based on the amount of input charge he gave the object.

In both case he could immediately neutralize the magnetic charge by bring the object into the influence field of an oppositely charged object.

facinating work and "modern" science really needs to study more.

Of course the Feds do not wish to change the "modern" teachings of electricity and magnetics as Ed L theories in application would make "free" energy a reality.



[edit on 15-5-2007 by robertfenix]

Originally posted by dbates
What's really odd is if you lift that object a little further, say 100 miles out past the space station, all that potential energy is gone. It would go from megatons of force to none....just a cold object floating in space. You're right about the asteroid impact. All the energy for the explosion comes from the earth itself. This whole concept is quite unsettling and mocks the laws of thermodynamics.

Actually, no... and the energy comes from BOTH objects. Remember Newton's laws, which deal with bodies in motion and bodies at rest? Planet smashing conforms completely with those.

I'm not sure why you brought the laws of thermodynamics into it since the energy release is actually a Newtonial event. However, you would find that the generated energy is accounted for by the laws of thermodynamics... as long as you remember to adjust for the fact that the universe is an open system and not a closed system (as is described by the laws of thermodynamics.)

Thinking of it as that kind of energy is misleading. It's a passive property... like potential energy. Until you do something with it, it's doesn't generate anything.

Like a rock on a cliffside. The rock has a huge amount of potential energy but isn't changed into kinetic energy until you shove it off the cliff. Once it lands, it has no more potential energy. Same thing with a magnet.

Did that make sense?

No

so if a magnet is not being used there is no magnetic field?

A magnet is not kinetic energy, or passive energy....really it adds kinetic energy.

A magnet will continue to hold on to something for a very long time, a rock will fall quickly and its over...

Poor analogy

[edit on 15-5-2007 by junglelord]

Originally posted by Byrd
... as long as you remember to adjust for the fact that the universe is an open system and not a closed system

I think this is what the original poster was trying to get at. Does magnetism introduce extra energy into the universe, or is this just some special sort of stored energy?