Why is it so hard to believe??

Originally posted by InSpiteOf

Originally posted by Watchful1

Prevented nuclear war...

If your talking about the cold war, you should brush up on your history. The soviets were playing catchup to the American arsenal more times than not.

The invasion of Afghanistan is what did in the soviets.

It's a good thing we aren't making the same mistakes.

[edit on 18-4-2007 by In nothing we trust]

benign fire, like the kind used in a gas stove - could become destructive

natural gas just like Acetelyne , burns at a low temperature...
but when you mix in an energizer like oxygen or volumes of forced air
then an oxy-acetelyne torch results, that melts & cuts 2" thick metal (for example)
or the gas stove becomes a air-fuel bomb, like what happened up in Philadelphia to a whole city block.....KaBoom!


none of the official reports pointed out that the jet fuel (essentially kerosene) might have burned hotter in the areas where elevator shafts and 'chases' would be places where pretty forceful updrafts of air could possibly create many 'torches' inthe same area where the core columns
(stripped of insulation & fire protectorant) would be either severed or
damaged pretty well by aircraft frame & parts.
There's also the brackets supporting the floor trusses at the perimeter
which just have been subjected to a lengthly time of the jet-fuel-& forced-air 'torch' principle, seein as the floor acted as a ceiling/firestop to concentrate all the heat energy of the air-fuel mix across those brackets
right before the heat & smoke excaped to the outside atmosphere.

those are the exact two places where the weakening of the parts
would cause a concentration of the load and lead to collapse....first of all
the now 'candelevered' floors would force all the load bearing onto the now stressed core columns...exceeding their designed load factors

well, enough of this ramble...just wanted to expand on the fire/melting
problem and the assumptions & non-assumptions made all over the place...
as a kid, i've made bombs out of match stick heads, to put on model boats
with a home-made slow-fuse, so we could witness them go-Boom & sink out in the middle of the farm pond. so, saying kerosene fires isn't enough to collapse the Twin-Towers...is a deliberate down-play...to lure in the sucker bets!




[edit on 18-4-2007 by St Udio]

St. Udio, you convenently avoided WTC 7 in your statement, how cute like your avatar.

Originally posted by St Udio
...first of all
the now 'candelevered' floors would force all the load bearing onto the now stressed core columns...exceeding their designed load factors

To reiterate what you are saying using calculations. The shear and moment equations for a simply supported beam (floor trusses before damage) are: wL/2 & wL(2)/8

The shear and moment equations of the same beam, but now cantelevered are: wL & wL(2)/2

So, if we have 60 feet (long trusses) and say a load of 50 kips/ft (w). We get:

shear and moment of trusses before damage:

1500 kips for shear and 22,500 ft-kips for moment.

shear and moment of trusses after damage (cantelever):

3000 kips for shear and 90,000 ft-kips for moment. (Produces 2 times the shear and a moment of 4 times......something to think about...both sides)

I haven't analysed it any further yet but I'm going to assume that the FS took care of those extra loads because they stood after impact.

That took me about 5 minutes to do. Where are NIST's calculations and proof? I paid them good money for their work. If they weren't a government agency, we could sue them for breach of contract. They did not deliver their stated scope of services. Period.

so, saying kerosene fires isn't enough to collapse the Twin-Towers...is a deliberate down-play...to lure in the sucker bets!

What the downplay is, is kerosene fires aren't hot enough (produce enough energy) to get the columns as hot as needed. I could be wrong and if any one who is proficient in thermodynamics could ellaborate further...please do.

Disclaimer: A kip is a kilopound. It is also equivalent to 1/2 a ton or 1,000 pounds.

Originally posted by redseal
I am so sick an tired of the "Evil administration" talk around here!

I dont even know where to begin with the logical fallacies in this OP

I'm not american, I'm swedish but I'm still gonna post my opinion on this.

Why is it so hard to believe: Let me give you that one reason.

Official stories are NEVER official.

I rest my case.

The official story is that a story. It would nice if we had some actual facts, or just litte things called evidence would be nice.

I am still waiting for the FBI and NTSB crime scene reports. Photos of the Flight 77 pieces collected, things we should have by now but don't. It would nice to actually know the truth of what happened and not just a story the media likes to feed us.

[edit on 21-4-2007 by ULTIMA1]

One of my main thesis is that they're intentially doing things like that so that the controversy and debate will rage on and divert everyone from the 'actionable consensus' issues.

I fear "We the Sheeple" will have to take that information by force, with torches and pitch fooks held high into the belly of the beast!!

Originally posted by infinityoreilly
I fear "We the Sheeple" will have to take that information by force, with torches and pitch fooks held high into the belly of the beast!!

All you need is enough people to wake up and stop spreading the lies of the official story and start asking for the truth.

Originally posted by tyranny22
I believe there is a conspiracy behind the WTC bombing.

I beleive terrorist did fly the planes into the buildings.

I think that there is alot more to this than most realize. The link between the conspiracy and the terrorists? Pakistan - who transfered money to the terrorist weeks before the bombing. I'm sure the terrorist were following their call for Jihad and ordered to carry out the bombings. But, that doesn't mean that it all started from a cave in Afgahnistan.

How was it that Bush stole the election for 2 terms straight? Bush having ties to the oil industry is just an obvious front. Meaning anyone looking further into the invasion of Iraq would immediately see nothing more than an oil tycoon securing the world's oil reserves.

I beleive Bush is just a patsy in the long run as well. He's a puppet of the NWO who have bigger plans in Iraq than just oil. Let's think for a second ... what's in Iraq? or better yet, what has been in Iraq in the past? what significance does Iraq play in the near future? relevant questions. discover the answer to these and it might not be so hard to consider that the WTC bombing were ordered so that the invasions of Iraq would be justified by the american public.

The trouble is, you would have thought that when the NWO were sitiing down and discussing the finer details of this cunning plan that at some point some one would have chirped up with "wouldn't it be a good idea to have evidence linking 9/11 to Iraq?"

That's where the whole conspiracy theory regarding this falls apart in front of you. imo.

Originally posted by Steel Penguin
The trouble is, you would have thought that when the NWO were sitiing down and discussing the finer details of this cunning plan that at some point some one would have chirped up with "wouldn't it be a good idea to have evidence linking 9/11 to Iraq?"

That's where the whole conspiracy theory regarding this falls apart in front of you. imo.

But the government did come up with the idea. Thats why they happen to find intact passports and IDs, and other evidence. Also a whole list of terrorist all ready.

Oh and don't forget the weapons of mass distruction.

Originally posted by InSpiteOf

Originally posted by redseal


Lets just end this little Bush/white folk are evil stuff right now, America has done so much/so often for the entire world that its crazy!!!

What has the US Administration done for the whole world? Please, tell me, what good has the past and present US Administration done for the world?

ok heres a few, but I wasnt just talking about the administration, its the USA altogether, and here are some of our "accomplishments"

WW1, WW2, telephone, electricity, automobiles, planes, computers, internet, democracy, freedom, end of slavery, womens rights, space exploration, medical breakthroughs, immigration, I could do this all day long!

What major thing has any other nation contributed? Oh wait africa gave us aids, and the middle east gave us bin laden, and germany gave us hitler! Thanks world for your contributions, but the good ol USA wins hands down!

Envy is so sad!

Originally posted by redseal
WW1, WW2, telephone, electricity, automobiles, planes, computers, internet, democracy, freedom, end of slavery, womens rights, space exploration, medical breakthroughs, immigration

Well prior to 9/11 our contributions to the world were starting to look like lawsuits, pollution, obesity, ignorance, greed, divorce, debt, excessive regulation and corporate fraud.

I sure an glad that we have turned the ship around.

Oh wait we haven't yet.

[edit on 22-4-2007 by In nothing we trust]

Wait I was going to post something but after the last one by Redseal, what is the point?

The Mayans Invented zero, (those guys were not U.S. citizens BTW), zero is the number of neurons in your zombie brain.... keep the flame up...it will melt your brain too...LOL

Originally posted by redseal

ok heres a few, but I wasnt just talking about the administration, its the USA altogether, and here are some of our "accomplishments"

WW1, WW2, telephone, electricity, automobiles, planes, computers, internet, democracy, freedom, end of slavery, womens rights, space exploration, medical breakthroughs, immigration, I could do this all day long!

Envy is so sad!

So the US accomplished immigration. lol

Envy indeed!

[edit on 22-4-2007 by whaaa]

Originally posted by kix
Wait I was going to post something but after the last one by Redseal, what is the point?

The Mayans Invented zero, (those guys were not U.S. citizens BTW), zero is the number of neurons in your zombie brain.... keep the flame up...it will melt your brain too...LOL

Zombie brain? wtf are you talking about

The personall attacks are clever, well not really, but still no one can come up with anything any other nation has done!

Thanks for proving my point!

Case closed!

Originally posted by redseal
WW1, WW2,

What good did any of those do for us? If you really look into the history both those wars could have been stopped before they happened. Money is basically why they were allowed to happen, but then the victors take credit as the good guys...

democracy

Term came from the Greeks. All the US administration did was serve up a twisted version, that gives the illusion of choice while the real decisions are made by the ruling elites.

freedom

Again an illusion to give you the impression you are not controlled.

end of slavery

Yeah good logic on that one... Do you actually read any history before you come to these conclusions?

womens rights

That was bought about through years of protest.

medical breakthroughs

US administration did that? I thought it was doctors?

telephone

The administration invented the telephone? I thought it was Alexander Graham Bell, and he was Scottish.

computer

Konrad Zuse is known as the the inventor of the modern computer and he was German.

immigration

Huh? I don't get that one. US administration gave us immigration? People have been moving around the world long before the US was even an idea in someones twisted head.

I could go on too. Maybe you need to check your history...

[edit on 22/4/2007 by ANOK]

ANOK please READ my post, I never said anything about the"administration" inventing/helping with these things, they are all things by Americans, not administations. READ READ READ!