Why should I vote next year?

Originally posted by Maverickhunter
It wasn't until after the 1800s that all of these racial free voting right laws were passed as legislation.

And hundreds of thousands risked their lives, or even died, in the civil war to free the slaves so that they could, eventually, vote. And hundreds died bringing the right to vote to people in this country who couldn't.

So I'm not wrong. Hundreds of thousands, perhaps even millions, have died so that we can all have a free life and vote for who ever we wish to vote for.

Vote for THEM. For to honor those who died to bring you the right to vote.

[edit on 4/17/2007 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by Maverickhunter
My conspiracy is that there is no reason for voting for both parties, as they will progress nowhere.

Can we find a balance between the two? Seriously.

President schmesident. Look at the Congressional candidates in your area up for election in '08.

The legislative is where it's at.

Case in point, this guy gives 'em all equal hell. Find a real "representative" in your area (not a fatcat or politician) and support them!

Originally posted by Maverickhunter
Are you saying that I am not being honerable by not voting?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying if/when you're eligible. And don't fall for the "one vote doesn't matter" garbage. The only vote that doesn't matter is the vote that isn't cast.

You have a unique opportunity with every election to send a message that you care. Collectively, it's how we demonstrate to the elected officials that we're paying attention. With a little diligence (yes, participatory democracy does require a little effort), you can find a candidate (or two or three) that you can support. And if not, you ought to be able to find a party you can support and work to get someone from that party on your local ballot.

After the millions of people who have come before us who suffered indescribable turmoil and grief to get us to this point and the millions who died in battle to keep us free from tyranny, the least we can do is treat the process seriously and participate in it.

Or sit back and let Exxon do it for you.

As irony would have it they ALL died in vain, now we DO have tyranny and just take a look at foreign policy and "aid!" That is enough right there. Ah the founding fathers are rolling in their graves, and no one cares.

And what country do you live in?

Obviously, not the USA because not only do we not live in tyranny, but a good number of people most certainly do care.

Now if you're one of the "I'm totally spoiled and have no idea what real tyranny is, but wahh wahh life is hard and I give up, everything's too complicated and I just want to watch American Idol" brigade, then you're part of the problem.

At this point, fortunately for you, there are enough people who do care that will pick up the slack. Probably. For now.

Just saying.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Maverickhunter
It wasn't until after the 1800s that all of these racial free voting right laws were passed as legislation.

And hundreds of thousands risked their lives, or even died, in the civil war to free the slaves so that they could, eventually, vote. And hundreds died bringing the right to vote to people in this country who couldn't.

So I'm not wrong. Hundreds of thousands, perhaps even millions, have died so that we can all have a free life and vote for who ever we wish to vote for.

Vote for THEM. For to honor those who died to bring you the right to vote.

[edit on 4/17/2007 by FlyersFan]

They're dying because people went to war for a reason over something they didn't like. The cold war brought many unecessary wars, and, that, the Civil War would have been won, and besides, the War of Independence brought the constitution, those other wars didn't effect it. People died because our President ordered them to because he was against the uprising!

We didn't have to go to war in WWI, WWII, or with the Soviet Union.

Originally posted by yeahright

Originally posted by Maverickhunter
Are you saying that I am not being honerable by not voting?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying if/when you're eligible. And don't fall for the "one vote doesn't matter" garbage. The only vote that doesn't matter is the vote that isn't cast.

You have a unique opportunity with every election to send a message that you care. Collectively, it's how we demonstrate to the elected officials that we're paying attention. With a little diligence (yes, participatory democracy does require a little effort), you can find a candidate (or two or three) that you can support. And if not, you ought to be able to find a party you can support and work to get someone from that party on your local ballot.

After the millions of people who have come before us who suffered indescribable turmoil and grief to get us to this point and the millions who died in battle to keep us free from tyranny, the least we can do is treat the process seriously and participate in it.

Or sit back and let Exxon do it for you.

What message would you be sending? The message of "I voted Democrat rather than voting for a Republican" would send the message that you are oblivious to politics and would also show that you heavily favor one side more than the other. I like the independent parties, but they will never get popular. So, I choose Democrats, even though I think that both parties are the same.

Originally posted by Maverickhunter
I like the independent parties, but they will never get popular. So, I choose Democrats, even though I think that both parties are the same.

Self-fulfilling prophecy.

But that's fine. As long as you vote, and know why you're voting for a particular candidate, you're way ahead of a lot of people.

YR: Did you gear that "what country do you live in?" towards me or someone else? If towards me: I live in the USA. We do have tyranny, we have fascism we can vote for, we have a foreign policy that undermines all human rights, ethics and morals our nation is supposed to be "founded on." Now that is just the tip of the iceberg, go underwater and you will see the hulking deathtrap that lurks in the oceans.

Mav: Voting for one of two evils is never the honorable nor wise thing to do. Let alone ethical or moral. Unless you ARE evil... Sick to think people still follow that no?

Don't vote for a party. Vote for a CANDIDATE.

Originally posted by Vekar
YR: Did you gear that "what country do you live in?" towards me or someone else? If towards me: I live in the USA. We do have tyranny, we have fascism we can vote for, we have a foreign policy that undermines all human rights, ethics and morals our nation is supposed to be "founded on."

Why, yes I did gear that towards you. And I'll humbly submit that if you think the citizens of the USA are living in tyranny, you have a lot to learn about what tyranny is.

One could certainly make the argument that there are fascistic elements in the government today. However your point seems to be that we've reached a stage of hopelessness that makes voting irrelevant. I completely disagree, and maintain that the best hope we have is for an informed electorate to take some responsibility and action within the framework of the processes in place.

We can stand up and do something, or lay around and piss and moan about how hopeless it all is. Suck it up and get involved, Bubba.

Unless you have a better option, which I'm most interested in hearing.

Now that is just the tip of the iceberg, go underwater and you will see the hulking deathtrap that lurks in the oceans.

Ummm... okay. That isn't a reference to some ET/UFO Nazi underwater Antarctic Atlantis saucer base or something, is it?

YR: Open your eyes kid, first off look at how people are treated. I shall now use the example of protesters being gassed and flogged for no reason other than so the police could break up the protest and beat someone up. Watch some Indymedia films of protests once in a while. That is tyrrany. Want more? Ok! Go back to 1987, there was a movie made on this: The Shadow Government, Constitution in crisis (PBS) by Bill Moyers. Just look at what they do when you watch it. THAT is tyrrany.
video.google.com...
Watch it.

What is fascism? Go wikipedia it, use a dictionary then watch: "America, freedom to fascism"
We are quickly slipping into the abyss of "vote for me! No for ME!" yet both are part of the same party in the end, both will do the same thing. The voting selections are a total LIE! Vote dem! No Repub! Yeah right, they both do the same thing in the end: undermine your freedom. Maybe you should look around ATS more and join into the discussions on government such as the topics on gun control or this one:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Their desire for gun control is a quick way of allowing them to sieze power quickly and easily should they want too. That is what the Nazis did in Germany: "We need to take your guns away to protect you!" The people: "OK!" and look at what happened.
Voting for one of two evils IS irrelevant, go re-read my posts. Voting for one of two parties who are going to do the same in the end only in a different manner is NOT an option. When you say: "Take responsability" you just lost over 80% of the people in government. THEY ARE POLITICIANS! THEY ARE BEUROCRATS! THEY DO NOT I REPEAT NOT want to take responsability for ANYTHING. You should have learned that by now just by looking back through history. They only want a paycheck and to be re-elected, taking responsability for things is their greatest fear.
First off kid you have not a clue in heck of what I do or who I am, frankly I could care LESS about who YOU are now more than ever. Who said I am just moaning and doing nothing? You. No one else. I am an active person, I go to meetings whenever I can for the parties in my state: democrat, communist, socialist, green, etc. (no repubs, they are despised despite what the government would have you believe about my state). I hand out information, I debate, I talk to people. I am active. YOU kid are ASSUMING things and are WRONG!
Want my 3rd option to the problems besides being a fool and voting for one of two evils? VOTE 3rd PARTY! That way no matter what happens between the two major parties you had no part in it, no blood on my hands thank you! Yet also because 3rd parties tend to be more "ground roots" in some ways. They are more "in with the people" not a bunch of greedy fat cats. Though the chances of success are MINIMAL they will win which is why I said A LOT of the above, they are still the best option. I think you need to re-read a whole lot and stop and think for a while kid.
The iceberg comment if you stop and think about it refers to how screwed the USA is right now. It refers to how deep things go, what we see now in government is just the tip not the larger whole. You need to go read about icebergs. If you DO then you will learn: the top is FAR smaller than the part below the water, which can go down several hundred yards in some cases and covers a large area. My comment is about what we see verses what really goes on: A tiny, itty bitty speck compared to the whole.

"Suck it up and get involved, Bubba."
Thank you for your propaganda comment which holds no water. You kid (I say kid because you are acting like one) need to stop assuming things and just stop and think about what I said before commenting. Maybe if you did you would realize I am not a person who "whines" as you put it but actually cares and acts on that care. Also that comment I just quoted is rather un-amusing, your sounding like a troll for saying that. Trolls sole purpose is to cause fighting on a forum, so suck up your insults and keep them to yourself.
Stop and use common sense from here on out YR.

Originally posted by Vekar
As someone else said: "Voting does not matter."

Your statement, no?

Originally posted by Vekar
Vote for the lesser of two evils: Shame and dishonor.
Vote for who you truely want: honorable and wise.
Vote for someone who WONT win no matter WHAT: dodging the blame. WISE! Maybe not wholely honorable but very wise!

Take your pick of the three folks, that is what it boils down too in the USA.

And this one?

Originally posted by Vekar
Yeahright: My statement stands, it is not wholely honorable because you are voting mainly because they cannot win. None the less, we are at a stage where votes no longer matter, money does.

And this one? It's "not honorable to vote" for someone who "cannot win"?

Originally posted by Vekar
As irony would have it they ALL died in vain, now we DO have tyranny and just take a look at foreign policy and "aid!" That is enough right there. Ah the founding fathers are rolling in their graves, and no one cares.

And this? "They all died in vain" and "no one cares", other than you, apparently?

And until your most recent post that's what we had to go on, no? Voting is not only pointless and irrelevant, but unless you voted for the winner, not only did you waste your vote but you were dishonorable? And I'm supposed to open MY eyes?

But NOW you advocate something different and are superinvolved. Good for you, if you in fact are. First we've heard of that other than the "don't bother voting" stance you were previously on. The only assumption I was making was that you were stating your views accurately. Since you've now seemed to change them 180 degrees, I'm not sure how you can call me out for "assumptions".

Originally posted by Vekar
Want my 3rd option to the problems besides being a fool and voting for one of two evils? VOTE 3rd PARTY!

Which is EXACTLY what I've said from the beginning. Too bad you had to be provoked into an incoherent whiny rant before you could disclose that. Kid.

[Edit for format]





[edit on 4/18/2007 by yeahright]

First off let me laugh my head off at your foolishness kid (goes off and explodes in laughter).

Ok that is out of my system! Now then: You need to learn what SARCASM is, go look it up kid. Second off voting is pointless, I still stand by it, however as I said EARLIER THAT IF YOU DO NOT VOTE (and others said this too) YOU ARE NOT PERMITTED TO WHINE ABOUT THINGS BECAUSE YOU REFUSED TO EVEN VOTE FOR SOMEONE WHO WOULD NEVER WIN! You have a lot of re-reading to do. All of my quotes are accurate, because both parties (50/50 chance of "winning" pending on what the corporates want) are one and the same. So voting no longer matters because one of two evils will take control. The only point in voting is so you can say: "Dont blame me, I voted! But not for YOU!" You are once again assuming things. You need to go back and read what others said and then what I said.
Now I advocate something different? HECK NO! You just never read what I said so I went and did a quick "copy and paste" of what I said! You never bothered to read what I said in the first place! Only what fits your twisted trolling and propaganda!

"Incoherent whiny rant" is what you just did because you never read my statements. Everything I said I shall stand by and still do. YOU just never read all of what I said and you STILL have not stopped and THOUGHT ABOUT WHAT I SAID! Gods. Grow up kid. If all you can do is try and insult people get off ATS, leave that to the veteran trolls who know what they are doing.
Oh and you never even bothered to read my previous statements about voting 3rd party, I just put it up again because I figured you wouldnt read it anyway: Vote third party because they WILL NOT WIN! Why? 0 corporate backing. Also: I never said it was completety unhonorable to do this, I said partly because you already know they will loose and is thus why your choosing them. So you will not get the blame if something goes wrong which will happen. You see your just trying to twist it around, I was saying vote 3rd party all along TOO kiddo! Only for a different REASON! So stop twisting things.

Now let me quickly go over some of the other quotes you made:
"Voting does not matter!"
TRUE! Because your not a rich person! Unless you are you WILL get the short end of the stick, if your lucky that is. Elections are BOUGHT anymore, look at the last 2 elections.
"lesser of two evils"
Yup, TOTAL and ABSOLUTE dishonor to vote for one of two evils, or the lesser of. Why? Because your not helping things any!
"NOT WHOLELY honorable to vote for..."
YUP! Because you know they will loose, but it IS honorable in another sense because you are not at fault anymore!
"all died in vain, no one cares"
SARCASM! Go look it up kid. You might notice there is a hunk of the USA (over 30%) that has allowed them to die in vain because of the laws and bills they want passed which strip our freedom. Thus these people DO NOT CARE. Get it? Good.

Re-read, look up sarcasm, stop and think for a minute before talking. That will help you A LOT! Also grow up, your just trying to twist statements like a politician does and quite frankly are foaming at the mouth with propaganda. Go troll somewhere else if your going to try this and pull off this bull(self censored).


Edit: added 1 sentence.

[edit on 18-4-2007 by Vekar]

Well thank you very much for your well reasoned and intelligent response. I shall give it all the consideration it deserves.

God help us all.

If there is a god then that god has abandoned the planet. I still cannot wait for the 2008 elections to see what they pull of this time, or what they try and pull off. Still if you want to know another reason why voting never gets people anywhere watch the movie I suggested a couple posts back: "Red State Road Trip." Grand example of people who have no clue who they are voting for.

If you have to ask why, then please don't vote. There are already way too many uninformed voters as it is.

BTW I also have a 17 year old son, and he sure knows how he is going to vote next year! My guess is he will cancel your vote out anyway, so don't even bother!

its not going to make a difference if you vote or not. in fact i think it would say an awful lot if everyone refused to vote- show the world what we all think of american politics. obviously- not going to happen though.

oh yeah, i think its worth voting for hillary though... out of sheer interest.

Originally posted by RANT
President schmesident. Look at the Congressional candidates in your area up for election in '08.
The legislative is where it's at.
Case in point, this guy gives 'em all equal hell. Find a real "representative" in your area (not a fatcat or politician) and support them!

The above advise from RANT is far wiser than my earlier suggestion.

I am 44 now, and all my voting history has gone to the GREEN PARTY in the past with the exception of the last 2 Presidential elections where I voted DEM just to take a serious stand against BushyJr.............

My GREEN PARTY candidates have never won, but I have always felt good about voting that way just to ensure that there will always be a 3rd choice in the race........allowing my little voice to make some noise with crowd that never is heard, made me always feel like I was doing some good.
I am going back to my green party voting anyway, so it is wrong of me to advise you to not even bother.

my bad.....................

Originally posted by theRiverGoddess
The above advise from RANT is far wiser than my earlier suggestion.

Kewl. Thanks RG.

It's amazing how much satisfaction one can get from effective political involvement, especially at the more local level. Though the right brand of common man candidate can have broad appeal these days with the advent of the Internets!

Presidential and Senatorial politics are poison. As are most of our Congress Critters.

But when a flat broke laid off mill worker can run against a multi-millionaire mill owner and win (or come darn close), that's called the HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, and grassroots as grassroots gets. It's no secret I'm a rabid supporter of Larry Kissell, as I'd imagine most disaffected with politics as usual would be.

So practice voting now, and get the feel for doing something good for yourself... and nation.

Vote Kissell for Grassroots All-Star! (Absolutely no sign up required.)



Then become an advocate yourself. Of something. Anything, besides apathy.