a woman joining the masons....??

ok boys.. i need some feedback.. i am considering joining the freemasons, there are only a few co-masonic lodges, but they exist.

what are the 'requirements' to be a mason ? when you get interviewed, what do they want to know? if you believe in a god, no drugs, you need people to speak on your behalf that you are a good person, honest, hard working.. right ? i 'am' all that, the only thing - i was born a girl - so therefore i can't join the freemasons and enjoy the benefits of that union.

so i guess my questions are: how do mason view women ? do they view us as equals ? obviously we are not equals in 'the lodge', but what about in 'real life'.. are we equals? and would a woman freemason be accepted by the men ?
thank you in advance for your input.
ck23

To be a Mason you have to be a man. Co-masonry is not Masonry and I do not reccognize irregular "Masons". I view co-masonry as a cancer of the craft. Not all my brothers agree with me on this and of course I in no way shape or form speak for them but most of the brothers I know agree with me... Mason = Male You may join a group and you may call each other Masons but you are not... sorry.

As far as treating women as equals outside the lodge, most Masons treat everyone as equals regardless of sex, race, religion etc.

[edit on 14-4-2007 by RWPBR]

Originally posted by RWPBR
To be a Mason you have to be a man. Co-masonry is not Masonry and I do not reccognize irregular "Masons". I view co-masonry as a cancer of the craft. Not all my brothers agree with me on this and of course I in no way shape or form speak for them but most of the brothers I know agree with me... Mason = Male

You may join a group and you may call each other Masons but you are not... sorry.

As far as treating women as equals outside the lodge, most Masons treat everyone as equals regardless of sex, race, religion etc.

He's right. Not about the co-masons, but about not everyone agreeing with him. Cancer is waaay to strong IMHO and I feel there is a place for all types of "freemasonry" in the world.

CK - it depends where you are located, but you will get a lot of information on masonic forums such as www.lodgeroomuk.com... which is a more appropriate place for this enquiry anyway.

Please u2u me, IMO there may be better options for you than co-masonry e.g. female freemasonry (no I'm not talking about OES).

Whoa whoa whoa settle down big guy Cancer is a strong word and Kitty had a genuine question for us.

Kitty it is true that Co-masonry is not recognized bu the Grand Lodges in the US and even though it shares the same name it is not the same fraternity. I know a couple of people (men & women) who are co-masons and they are great people and they love the esoteric and ritual beyond it just realize other Masons will not be able to discuss Masonry with you but can definitely help answer questions you have about what we went though during out interview process.

In regards to how you would be treated, well you would be treated as a person however many Mason's will not consider you a fellow mason cause you have to under stand it's a Fraternity of Men with a very long history as such.

Do not be offended we are just very passionate and fell very strong about protecting the Craft.

If you have any questions feel free to U2U me and I will be happy to chat with ya

Cory

As a mason it is my opinion that women are free to form their own lodge and do all the things that the men do. If I claim the right to sit in a closed lodge with men only, how can I deny that right to women. Though some masons feel strongly about this, I feel it is important for masons to hold all the old traditions but if women join a women's lodge, it in no way affects what the men do. Getting away from the other gender for a time is valuable in one's evolution. I would encourage any woman who wants, to join with like minded people and practice what ever form of character improvement they want and call it what ever they want. As for how masons feel about women, those who study well the ancient mysteries do not hold the value of man to be any different then that of a woman. One of the reasons that the Catholic church did not like the Templars is because they allowed women in their ranks.

You could certainly be recognized as equal by Masons, but regular Masons would not recognize as a Mason if you joined a Co-Masonic Lodge.

A good analogy is the Red Hat Society. To join this group, one has to be a woman. Their members may think I'm a great guy, but would never recognize me as a member of their organization.

Originally posted by RWPBR
To be a Mason you have to be a man. Co-masonry is not Masonry and I do not reccognize irregular "Masons

BS. Go ahead and join a co-masonry lodge. You’ll know everything that RWPBR knows.

The same secrets, the same teachings, minus the penis.

I view co-masonry as a cancer of the craft.

Why? Because they don’t have UGLE recognition?

Do you know what is taught in these cancerous lodges?

You remind me of the various Rosicrucian groups who claim they are the true descendent of Bacon’s 16th century movement.


[edit on 14/4/07 by ConspiracyNut23]

Frats are for boys...they need it.

I was considering applying for the so-far-non-existent position of 'Grand Patroness'....more like an external distraction perhaps...I do look better in a hat than Mum Queen.

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23

Originally posted by RWPBR
To be a Mason you have to be a man. Co-masonry is not Masonry and I do not reccognize irregular "Masons

BS. Go ahead and join a co-masonry lodge. You’ll know everything that RWPBR knows.

The same secrets, the same teachings, minus the penis.

I view co-masonry as a cancer of the craft.

Why? Because they don’t have UGLE recognition?

Do you know what is taught in these cancerous lodges?

You remind me of the various Rosicrucian groups who claim they are the true descendent of Bacon’s 16th century movement.


[edit on 14/4/07 by ConspiracyNut23]

A Freemason is a man. If you are not a man you are not a Mason.
I encourage her to seek whatever path she deems important but regardless what her group calls itself if they allow women they are not Masons.

If I buy a tin star call my self a cop am I a policeman ?
If I buy a white coat and a Stethoscope and call my self a doctor am I a doctor ? They may learn the same things I learn and they may have all the trappings but that does not make them the genuine article. I drive over the speed limit, that doesnt make me Mario Andretti

I am not attacking the OP btw. Just stating an opinion. I am not saying the experiance in not valid, meaningful, character building etc. I am just saying it is not Masonry.

[edit on 14-4-2007 by RWPBR]

Originally posted by RWPBR
If I buy a tin star call my self a cop am I a policeman ?

They are called police officers now.

Can someone give curiouskitty23 some good advise, and suggest a good co-masonic Lodge in her area, so that she doesn’t end in some sort of degree mill scam?

Are there any descent co-Masonic lodges that follow Masonic teaching?

If you were a woman or an atheist, which lodge would you suggest for someone who is interested in learning about masonry?

EDIT: Found this...

Conversely, we are assured that some mixed-gender lodges (American Co-Masonry/AFHR, for example) does have the same essential elements as male-only traditional Freemasonry.

www.masonicinfo.com...

[edit on 15/4/07 by ConspiracyNut23]

a freemason is a man because a women has children in her. She would be questioning the morality of what she does based on her own beilefs and if it was good for the child. That's why women aren't allowed. Men have nothing to live for but power. Thats why Mason's are men.

Originally posted by rrahim1
a freemason is a man because a women has children in her. She would be questioning the morality of what she does based on her own beilefs and if it was good for the child. That's why women aren't allowed. Men have nothing to live for but power. Thats why Mason's are men.

I am a man and a mason, have two kids and as much power as a truck driver with a mortgage can have. I show up at work on time every day, pleased to have a job to feed my kids. My lifelong goal is to provide my kids with a good enough education in life that they can do better than I have done. I bet if you get to know a few masons you will find that I am not unusual at all.

I hope I don't offend anyone with this question, I'm just curious...if a woman got a sex change operation to become a man, could she\he join then? What about a hermaphrodite that appeared male?

And what about growing to adult with no need for opscure and outdated kindergartens, especially in 3rd Millennia, with shameful taliban like misogyny as a concept ( woman as a 'god' afterthought)?


Do you consider this adult?





[edit on 15-4-2007 by blue bird]

Originally posted by Astrithr
I hope I don't offend anyone with this question, I'm just curious...if a woman got a sex change operation to become a man, could she\he join then? What about a hermaphrodite that appeared male?

I am not a Mason, but in regards to the true and ultimate philosophical value of Freemasonory I find Asthir's question to be a remarkably intelligent and incisive one. Are Masons so hung up on maleness that that they would exclude an individual who by all traditional definitions of "male", (ie. having both X and Y chromosones and the capability to impregnate a female human being through the natural process of sexual intercourse with that pregnancy resulting in a healthy baby.), but also has female capabilities.

What I have in mind are those vanishingly rare (but when we are dealing with living feeling human beings any numbers are important) indivuals who are complete hermraphrodites (ie. people having a functional penis and one testicle capable of ejaculating fertile sperm + a functional vagina and one ovary capable of producing viable eggs.).

Now I have no doubt many readers will be thinking I am just trying to confuse and complicate things by posing a one in one million scenenario to attempt to criticize Freemasons with a situation that will never arise in real life. That is really and truly not my purpose. My purpose is to suggest that most of you might never have stopped to give serious thought to precisely who is or is not a man or a woman in very extreme situations.

Consider this. If John Doe says to you, " I have been married to my lovely wife, Jane, for ten years. We have five children. I am the father of all our children. I have the DNA tests to prove this. All Jane's pregnancies were started in the wonderful natural way. Jane will testify to that. I suspect if you believe John you will accept him as a male.

If John then adds, "By the way, in addition to my XY pair of chrosomes I also have an XX pair of chromosones, a fully functional vagina and every 28 days or so my ovary drops a fertile egg.

Are Freemasons the sort of reasonable, practical people folks who will accept a loving husband and father such as John Doe as a male or are they the sort of tight asses who would say, "Go away. You're a freak. We don't want you. I think this is a valid question.

If you don't find this question food for thought, in many respects in addition to a social club such as masonry, I suspect your brain is anorexic.

Sailghoti



[edit on 15-4-2007 by sailghoti]

Originally posted by sailghoti
Are Freemasons the sort of reasonable, practical people folks who will accept a loving husband and father such as John Doe as a male or are they the sort of tight asses who would say, "Go away. You're a freak. We don't want you. I think this is a valid question.

I think thats a damn fine question! I look forward to reading what Masons say about this. If you had a Mason in your midst for 5 years and somehow find out that Mr John Doe was Ms Jane Doe 8 years ago... what would happen to them?

Originally posted by rrahim1
Men have nothing to live for but power. Thats why Mason's are men.

And that's why 'woman' is GOD (the creative force)...'man' should be Eros, not the perpetual war-monger.

Single mindedness should be directed at LOVE not WAR and multi-tasking is best left to the one with eyes in front, back, sides, + on top.
*that's 7*

SEE?

It's all part of the Master plan. (jesus wears jack boots but mary wears sir pants!)

And the gender-change has also led Paterson to become estranged from the Freemasons after more than 40 years in the ancient and secret movement where, as Jim, she reached the rank of Lodge Master.

Shortly before becoming a woman, Paterson resigned from the Buchanan Lodge in nearby Killearn but when members learned the reasons they ordered the return of all diplomas and certificates with the reminder that "no woman can be a Freemason"

scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com...

Seems like these particular masons couldn’t handle it.

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
Can someone give curiouskitty23 some good advise, and suggest a good co-masonic Lodge in her area, so that she doesn’t end in some sort of degree mill scam?

I did, but she really needs to contact me offlist.

This is exacly the kind of thread, devoid of any conspiratorial content, that upsets the mods and distracts the boards. No disrespect to the OP, who I hope I can help, but we all know that eventually if we don't play by the forum rules there'll be trouble.

Originally posted by Dae

Originally posted by sailghoti
Are Freemasons the sort of reasonable, practical people folks who will accept a loving husband and father such as John Doe as a male or are they the sort of tight asses who would say, "Go away. You're a freak. We don't want you. I think this is a valid question.

I think thats a damn fine question! I look forward to reading what Masons say about this. If you had a Mason in your midst for 5 years and somehow find out that Mr John Doe was Ms Jane Doe 8 years ago... what would happen to them?

"Go away, you don't fit the membership criteria" would be more likely, and less hysterical.

Dae - yes it is a good question, and one that has been a great (theoretical) discussion point amongst freemasons for many years. However at the end of the day each lodge is a private club, and votes in new members. If more than a couple of lodge members don't want someone to join then they will blackball them, and it doesn't matter what the reason is.

These situations are sooooo rare that I imagine a case by case approach would have to be taken. In the case of the Scottish lodge cited above, the member resigned before it became an issue, and that was the honorable thing to do.

Now I'm outta this thread...

[edit on 4/15/07 by Trinityman]