Some Moslems Expect the Mahdi (Moslem Messiah) to Return (March 21, 2007)

Sky,I can't say that I completely disagree. There are many strange things going on and they will get stranger.However, we are mincing physical experiences with spiritual ones,I think.

[edit on 22-3-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

its all about the reading, so:

a) Mahdi didn't show up = the prophecy was a lie made by religious fanatics

b) Mahdi didn't show up = the date was misinterpreted

or

c) Mahdi did arrive but that didn't happened with a big bang as expected.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by SkyWay
The problem is that there are things mysterious which have occurred to some people which confirm that there are things which seem like mere legends but which are actually literally true. There are things such as acupuncture which has been practiced in China for millennia and yet had been considered myth or folktale by many in the West.

Skyway, my friend, you are preaching to the choir.

I have experienced many odd things myself. However, when it comes to ideas like everyone hearing Gabriel blow his horn, or every eye seeing the return of Christ, I just.... :sigh: I don't know. I tend to think that when Christ comes back what the whole "every eye shall see," was referring to is the television set. Of course, it could also be speaking of the spiritual eye, which then there again, if that is the case then the literalist interpretation is also incorrect.

You say you have experience many odd things which others may find difficult to believe. Well, Speakeroftruth, there are others who have experienced mysterious things as well, which YOU may find difficult to believe.

With respect to the news reports about the Mahdi if he had arrived...this was specifically about the Mahdi, not about anyone else, such as Jesus Christ. When He returns there will be no need of the worldly media for the world to know He has returned. The media couldn't suppress the event, no matter how hard it tried. No editor will be able to "edit" out that arrival.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Queen, that little tidbit is the whole point behind everything that I say. I know, as well as you do, that man has corrupted the truth through the ages. This whole, waiting for the "Mahdi" is just one example of it.

Yet, if that is so...then doesn't the same apply to the expectation of Christianity for the 'second coming of Christ'?

Is not the expectation of salvation promised to the WHOLE WORLD - in the Judeo-Christian canon? Through Jesus Christ?

How can we know FOR SURE or say with absolutely CERTAINTY that the Mahdi is NOT the same anointed savior sent by the ONE GOD, that we wait for, in the West?

How can it be that we are certain we are not deluded in our thoughts which exclude others for the sake of our own inclusion....if God is going to be ALL in ALL, united in the ONE body of Christ Jesus - then does that not include ALL descendants of Abraham, both in Faith and in Flesh?

Islam has taken from other sacred texts and essentially declared them for their own.

NO different than any other exclusive religion...including those who depend on the Bible as the true guide in the living WORD.

I also depend on the bible, primarily - first and foremost - it is truly my 'yardstick.' BUT I have read the Quran, too. It may not agree with christian THEOLOGY but it is undeniably, in the main, promoting the SAME essential character of the ONE God...

Mercy, forgiveness, justice, love, and service to others for the sake of ALL in the name of God for the Glory of God...

It does tend to be a bit militant in its zeal toward keeping those sacred trusts which are every soul's divine appointment, if and when accepted as such...but HEY! WHO started the crusades?

Who threw the first punch in the arena of CHRISTIAN vs MUSLIM?
Was it Islam (ALLAH) or was it Christianity (JESUS) or was it the Jews (YHVH)?

Who continues to hold themselves as SUPERIOR and EXCLUSIVE in both spiritual correctness and approval from God? Who has failed the test of Israel...long after both the fall of Solomon's kingdom and even Herod's temple in Jerusalem?

Who has not learned from either their OWN mistakes or the mistakes of others? Who has condemned others and justified self...enjoying abundant food to excess and living beyond the bounds of true necessity - turning a blind eye to those who have NOT in the gluttony of HAVING? And what was the driving force between our UNWARRANTED meddling in Palestine for the sake of a few men's selfish desires for ZION? Was it God?

Or our own inability to admit that maybe WE are not any more special than either Isaac/Jacob OR Ishmael/Esau - just because we are of Mary/Jesus?

And willingness to concede that our ways and impatience CANNOT bring about the perfect manifestation of God's will for ALL of US - especially when we say US as opposed to THEM?
The US of A
THE US of ALL?
The proud and haughty did fall?
Saying that there no others as special to God as the Christian world? Taking the idea of freedom of religion into something such as being a CHRISTIAN nation?

We ARE not like Christ - not yet, as a whole! IF there are any hungry people in this world then WE cannot claim to be CHRISTIANS as a NATION. And now, we can't even boast of being the LAND of the FREE or the HOME of the BRAVE - we have allowed our reaction of horror and grief to an act of violence to consume us in our own terror and uncertainty! And, although I am not criticizing GWB as a person - and as a president he is our monster and we are Dr. Frankenstein! - I will say that claiming that Jesus led him to war after recoiling in fear and terror less than a month after being attacked (much like on December 7 1941)...is not my idea of what a fearless God-fearing leader does - it appears to be hypocrisy - and what most Americans don't realize is that many in the world see our own hypocrisy just as clearly as we deny it! This includes both governments and the factions which populate the fringes of society - such as Al Qaeda.

But ALL powers that be - are in place for their time because God ordains it so. Including those we call antichrists and devils and hate without restraint and fear far more than even God intended!!

FDR - now THERE was a God fearing wise leader...forced into making no win decisions which still had a better effect on humanity than the decisions that led us to that point.

We have NOTHING to FEAR except FEAR itself.

We cannot exclude! We cannot persecute, judge, or condemn! We cannot rush into a country to rescue the citizens from tyranny and then try to say it was THIS or THAT or even deny that it was a GOOD thing that Saddam's 2 sons were killed in the process - there WERE WMD's in Iraq - Uday and Cusay Hussein! I have no doubt at all that God's divine mercy is sometimes an expedient end to a presently damaging/unproductive incarnation - it is much better to start over one by one than to end once and for all...as ALL.

This was the hidden blessing in the tragedy of Nagasaki and Hiroshima - Einstein didn't understand at the time how the same force can both destroy and save - at the same time! If not for that, the war in Iraq would never have even had a start...no war if there are no men to fight!

I think that it is just as wrong to say Islam is WRONG as it is to say ONLY my way is RIGHT! I gave up my right to be right from now on! Only God has that right!
I would rather be wrong with everyone than be the only one right with God. I do not want God all to myself and I don't want anyone to not know Him...however they do is their business with God - not mine. God is our caretaker and we are the caretakers of the Earth. He is doing a GREAT job but we are still not getting the hang of true husbandry and stewardship!

Corruption with a capital C.

As in Capitol Hill? And their war on 'terror' which is only the fear of facing the mirror and the truth of the 9/11 tragedy?

Which is this:
UNITED we STAND
DIVIDED we FALL

All THREE of us...just like Noah saved all 3 of his sons AND their wives...God has three 'sons', too - Judaism, Christianity, AND Islam!

We ALL failed the test of 9/11 - and that was just a trial run! If we do not UNITE in and with the ONE God - even God will not step over His everlasting line of respect for the free will He gave directly to each us, of HIMSELF!

If we don't love our neighbor as ourselves - can we still have complete confidence that God will LOVE us over that neighbor we choose to exclude from God's love by choosing NOT to obey HIM to love them as He loves us?

However, 2012 is coming and when it does, billions of people are going to be surprised at the truth that emerges. It will no longer be debated, thought about or denied. It will just be.

No doubt - although I am of the understanding that 2012 will be the full and absolute fruition of the transformation which began in 1998 - nothing happens overnight - not even in God's non-time-limited framework.

2012 - 1998 = 14 years
2 courses of 7's.
It takes 7.2 years for the mind of a man to be completely 'overturned.'

It would seem that God is overturning our ways of thinking and false ideas not ONCE, but TWICE! That is, to those that are not so attached to their own perspective that they resist to the point of refusing the catalyst! God does not force His will on us, individually - but HIS will WILL be done in the EARTH - just as it is IN heaven! But it is a choice - just as love is an action and a choice - if it is the divine and perfect love of God which is AGAPE and which does not respect PERSONS on any basis whatsoever.

I'm not sure, exactly, what the details of that truth are, according to your expectations...if you want to share, please do - if not, it's not of any consequence between you and I anyway...I hope you understand what I mean.

Personally, my own expectations were folded, spindled, and mutilated repeatedly -- until I finally gave them up! They were of no use, whatsoever!

THEN it became progressively clear and so evident AND logical - true consistency comes only from the SOURCE of our life...

The various religions, etc., of the world are ALL waiting on some form or version of Messiah/Apostle/Savior sent from GOD....

And all of the respective arrival times have, over the centuries, gradually converged toward one period in time...in which we are now right in the midst of!

The whole world waits for a savior...the whole world expects that Savior at ANY TIME now...regardless of what ANY of us choose to name that Savior or how we are able to imagine either the arrival, embodiment, appearance, or character of that Savior...

There is BUT ONE.
Just like there is ONE God and ONE race (human) and ONE source of all things (light) and ONE law (love)...
there is but ONE firstborn from the DEAD!
ONE WAY
ONE SAVIOR
ONE new heaven and new earth
just as the old ones were but ONE

ONE at a time
ONE out of time
ONE for all time

Those things I say not of my own mind or will - but am just relaying what God has given me to understand. I NEVER could understand unity until GOD showed me I was ONE with Him and with Christ...and once I saw the truth in relation to myself - I saw the same applies to ALL! Once God perfected my love by resolving/relieving my fears, one by one, then I knew that God's plan IS the only
ONE...the NWO...NOW...WON...OWN

But those that fear and seek division against the Will of God are part of that plan, too - divide and conquer and then unite and revive...that's God's signature move...for our OWN good - God is a God of ORDER and we are promised all things NEW including a new Earth which is our WORLD.

A NEW WORLD ORDER

We are living at a time when many changes are occurring that people in other times would probably think were mere legends or allegories. Just look at those incredible crop circles that keep appearing in England. If those things had been appearing in the 15th century many of us would be ABSOLUTELY sure that they were just folktales. Many would be absolutely sure that they were not literally true and had never happened. It's difficult to believe they have actually happened even for those of us who have seen them. So, there are many wonders happening all over the world which many may find hard to believe or accept, but are REAL! In the face of all these incredible events who is to say that the prophecies in ancient texts won't come true? We need to keep our eyes and minds open. Anything can happen next!

Be back later. I have some work to do on another website.

Originally posted by ellroy
c) Mahdi did arrive but that didn't happened with a big bang as expected.

C!

Maybe the only thing truly false is our insistence on desiring some sort of BIG BANG to announce that which should be evident if we view the world from God's eye (third) rather than our own two (duality and schism within self)...

Christ has already arrived...the Maitreya also has arrived...as well as Moses, Elijah, John the Baptist (the son of man), and the Faithful and True (on the white horse)...even the 'antichrist' - the AC? or A.C? (think of initials and names and such....it ALL fits if you can see God's love as the unification of all things!)

It seems like we were only missing one more to complete the divine order of 7...to make the seven into ONE which is the 8th - the manifestation of God Himself, as the flame to the candles which are those He sent, as approved and perfected...in the past they came one by one, one at a time...and served as individual components being built toward ONE temple...but when the TEMPLE is completed, from the parts which were built off-site and privately...then truly we can say IMMANUEL is here...and that God has come to dwell among us.

I Man You El?

But not unless we can each recognize the TEMPLE as being that which God planned, ordained, built, and approved.

Islam = Is Lam

LAM of God?
The Easter 'egg?'
The WAY?
Truth?
Life?

Oh yes - all is perfectly on schedule! According to ALL the prophecies in the seemingly disparaging religions! I cannot make anyone see what they do not wish to see...but that doesn't mean that some DO see perfectly and have witnessed these returns according to the signs given in the ancient texts.

And if a few see...and LIVE...all will eventually see AND live! Through the ONE!

Originally posted by SkyWay

With respect to the news reports about the Mahdi if he had arrived...this was specifically about the Mahdi, not about anyone else, such as Jesus Christ. When He returns there will be no need of the worldly media for the world to know He has returned. The media couldn't suppress the event, no matter how hard it tried. No editor will be able to "edit" out that arrival.

if its the same god for judeism, christianity & islam, wouldn't the messiah same also?
if so, why would he be only leading islamic countries and destroying israel?

if we have separate messiahs then we're not talking about the same god for in that case we would be praying to our savior jesus christ to come and save us from mahdi.

mass religions are too inconsistent to take any of those prophecies seriously.

Originally posted by queenannie38
Yet, if that is so...then doesn't the same apply to the expectation of Christianity for the 'second coming of Christ'?

Is not the expectation of salvation promised to the WHOLE WORLD - in the Judeo-Christian canon? Through Jesus Christ?

How can we know FOR SURE or say with absolutely CERTAINTY that the Mahdi is NOT the same anointed savior sent by the ONE GOD, that we wait for, in the West?

How can it be that we are certain we are not deluded in our thoughts which exclude others for the sake of our own inclusion....if God is going to be ALL in ALL, united in the ONE body of Christ Jesus - then does that not include ALL descendants of Abraham, both in Faith and in Flesh?

Queen, while there is so much that you said I would love to respond to, in order to keep the thread on track, I will respond to this bit that you said. (I love your posts, Queen, I really do.)

Anyway, truth is, we don't know for a "fact" that this "Mahdi" will not be Christ. We don't. However, it is my understanding that the Muslims think that the "Mahdi" must return before Christ does. So, at least in the mind's of muslims, they are two separate individuals.

I don't really know what to say because I am not certain that Islam is a truthful religion. So, I kind of take all of this "Mahdi" talk with a grain of salt to be honest.

Is not the expectation of salvation promised to the WHOLE WORLD - in the Judeo-Christian canon? Through Jesus Christ?

Queen, I only have one answer for this:

Romans 8: 37-39

37
No, in all these things we conquer overwhelmingly through him who loved us.
38
For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor present things, 9 nor future things, nor powers,
39
nor height, nor depth, 10 nor any other creature will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Man Shall See The Mercy of God

Originally posted by ellroy
if its the same god for judeism, christianity & islam, wouldn't the messiah same also?

Not necessarily. In other religions, besides Chrisitianity, the designation of "Messiah" may not mean the Son of God. Messiah may only mean a saviour that saves by relaying the instructions of God, such as Moses did to the Jews. So, Even though Christianity and Islam and Judaism may worship the same God, each may have designated other servants of God as their Messiah. We may see Moses or Elijah, and the Mahdi, and Jesus arrive at the same, or nearly the same time, and all the prophetic Messianic expectations of the various religions be fulfilled, even though they each are expecting a different Messiah. After Jesus and the prophets appear, there will probably be perfect accord among them, and they will reconcile many of the misunderstandings between the various religions.



[edit on 22-3-2007 by SkyWay]

Originally posted by queenannie38
Simply, my answer was/is/shall be:
God IS love!

THANK YOU so much for sharing your thoughts - you have brought some new understandings to completion in my learning - which I can share with others just as you have shared with me!

God bless you = Love bless you!

This is the simple and easily practiced message of Judaism/Islam/Christianity.

All worship the same GOD, all books' of each religion by far promote a good will and caring of your fellow man, all state GOD will judge each and every one of us when the time comes.

Each religion is consisitent in this message, only when mankind manipulates the word do you find what we deal with now.

In each, when GOD needs to deal with problems, He has had no problem coming up with a solution or intervention, it is documented in the various scriptures, I have never seen an instance where man has had to notify GOD that we have a problem.

One thing I know is that man will not and should not even attempt to predict when GOD's judgement will be handed down, our task is to be good to one another, judge no one, live your life as best you can, help one another, doing this is as simple as queenannie38 stated in her post
God IS love!

It is that simple folks, to complicate the message only leads to this chaos we are witnessing now.

Originally posted by JacKatMtn
It is that simple folks, to complicate the message only leads to this chaos we are witnessing now.

Those dogs in your Avatar got so pretty eyes

amazing,.

Originally posted by SKUNK2
I think "god" is interperated all wrong. It's not an almighty being at all.
God is imo an as of yet unknown force that holds atoms together, it's the thing that holds every thing together, even space.

God is not the force that holds everything together...rather...He is the Creator of that force. All of the forces in nature receive their power from God.

yes - I think definetly it has somthing to do with those forces.
And me who belive in life after death - I think exactly those forces brings us to this world/universe and realm.



Same force that makes a tree grow upwards - it's intelligent.
But the force of the sun, is as most of us was told in school - a really mighty force-field - that also emits light and makes office buildings hot in the summer.

It is the sun who created the Earth - And therefore I think it would be a very good idea to think about it.

This God who is rulling - who is the rules of humans right now. Is a very poor shield and explaination of what is real.
- and therefore you can do nothing else but ignore - also because that is what your scripture really tells you to do.

-
Anger is in reality a force - that leads you to an awnser - I know this from own experience.
Also the force of Suicide - Is a sort of gravity that pulls your soul - it really is.
Sorrow is also a force that push your soul in a direction.

These forces affects your state of mind - these forces drives you to the conclusions I have just written for you.

The words in the holy scriptures - are a manipulation - that eventually will lead you to nothing but obeyness - to almost everything that is put infront of you - I say it's much more easy to control a population that is affected by guilt than a population that is affected by the force of nature.

So they changed the original stories of the bible. And made a God - that is only LOVE.
You know what LOVE means in Danish?

It means LAWS.

You know what God means?
It means Good.

You know that the name of the days in your calendar is Danish words - Old Danish mythology.

You know what Thursday means in Danish?
Torsdag.

That is Thor - Like thunder.
It is the explaination of the forces in Nature.

Be careful what you percive as the truth - because there is none other than you, the forces of nature and our solarsystem - And we should take care of it.


And in God we trust - what a sad end.

[edit on 25-3-2007 by Ram]
If your not ready to understand these things - then take your tiem - or leave it as it is - It's allright.

The doomsday things - could still be somthing to do with the sun.

unless offcourse a Government who took all the power and made it theirs - would like us to believe that it is another race that will be our doom unless we kill them. Total manipulation - Total war on both sides of the war-mongering nations of conflict here on earth.




These buildings are buildings of "control over humans".
Same stuff if you ask me -


[edit on 25-3-2007 by Ram]

Ram, all that stuff you just preached is completely off topic. What has any of your above sermon to do with the return of the Mahdi? All you're doing is preaching sermons on primitive nature worship.

Now, more on topic. The expected return of the Mahdi is tied in with very troubled times and war. This is certainly occurring in the Middle East and just seems to be getting worse. As I commented in a previous post, we must keep a close eye on events in the Middle East for it is there that the war of Armaggeddon will happen. The signs from Biblical prophecies are coming to pass, which means the time is near. Now, it seems recent events are speeding the buildup toward Armaggeddon. Even if the British prisoners are released by Iran, I think there will be military action taken by the West against Iran before long. These violent conditions are ripe for the return of the Mahdi.

[edit on 25-3-2007 by SkyWay]

You have voted Ram for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

SkyWay, none of that was irrelevant. That was the first real truth I've seen in this thread.

Waiting for a Messiah isn't going to help anything. Neither is fighting a war. Christianity and Islam are the product of human minds, and neither one of them captures the real essence of truth, which is self-evident in our reality and is far more complex than any idea a human could invent.

Mahdis and Messiahs and Antichrists and what have you are just metaphors, clumsy and heavy-handed ones, that encourage people to believe what they are told by their priests and their political rulers, and to view the sorry state of affairs in their nations as not only acceptable, but as something that is beyond their power to change.

It's all about control, and Ram just said that quite eloquently. I think he was very much on topic.

Parallelogram,

A lot of that is very true however, spirituality is very humane and it is unfortunetely being tarnished by misunderstood people. I can tell you that the vatican indeed does have a very dark background that is deceitful to its worshippers but that doesn't mean every belief is false. It is important to keep ourselves strong not only in the mind but in a spirtitual, social, and physical balance to live harmoniously.

/7A

Ram,

Very well put and I had just come to realize that powers around the world (governments=control of the mind) have a startling connection as you have photographically put. I live in Canada, Saskatchewan in the Queen City of Regina where we have a legislature building that does to have a dome figure:



I'd like to importantly add that these buildings are built upon forces of the earth that keep terrorists from attacking them (strong influential forces on the planets geographic and gravitational sectors). The royal queen has a strong connection here and had just recently arrived a year back to unveal a speech and statue (I have pictures 2 feet from meeting her). A lot of these buildings have not only a connection but have a sexual construct. Such as the pointed glass windows and arch represent the female opening. Churches and buildings around the world have twin phallus pillars. You can see it everywhere. Incidently the washington monument is a phallus symbol. It is a male phallus and it connects to the oval office.. There is a lot of that described by Jordan Maxwell. These things are even depicted by the bible.

/7A

Solemens Temple represents sex. Temple means house of god, the house of "El", the house of the God of Saturn. That's where it originated from. I highly reccommend this documentary hosted by the Republic Forum with Speaker Jordan Maxwell which so easily explains it:

Google Video Link

By the way Saturn worship is everywhere by our Judges, teachers, scholars, satanists, supreme court, and priests (ie, black robes and symbolic features). Saturn which means the Black Sun. They wear it because, they graduated from it, it is the priesthood of saturn. I want to point out that Lucifer is nothing more than the planet Venus. I can go on forever, but why when you can figure it out... If you watched Jordan Maxwell, I'd like to refer Michael Tsarion:

Google Video Link

Laughably (but seriously) the pope wears a fish symbolic hat on his head, which is doggon of origin. I mean these are people who've done there homework.

[edit on 25/3/2007 by 7Ayreon]

I agree with you, 7Ayreon, that belief is important (one might even say necessary, considering the way our organs of perception work) for human life. I also agree that there are spiritual traditions free of the corruption of the selfish manipulators of our society.

All I am saying is that the spirituality sold to and generally professed by the masses is an inimical one. Although it comes in many forms, its essence can be summed up in four words: "believe me, and obey".

Almost all religions, including Christianity, have great value to be gleaned. However, the practices of the vast majority of Christians today share very little resemblance with the Jesus of the Bible. Islam and Judaism, too, have been largely co-opted by political leaders with agendas entirely separate from, or even anathema to, the salvation of mankind.

Ideas like the Mahdi and the Dajjal, or the Christ and the Antichrist (tying this post into the topic at hand), are relics of political ideas from forgotten eras, part of organized religion's tendency to hold up literary puppets to idealize traits considered good and discourage traits considered evil.

Once again, to say that the idea of a Mahdi or Messiah is a politically motivated one is not to discredit all of the teachings of Mohammed or Jesus. I am just cautioning that we ought not to accept ideas of perfect good or perfect evil too readily, especially when they come from a book and not from our own experiences with life.

Some of you insist on believing your own fantasies entwined with natural objects. Your beliefs kind of remind me of some children's cartoons with talking plants and stones and animals. You replace the Divine with things that are even less than the human. If only you realized how deluded you are. It's like a person standing on his head who thinks that things below him are actually above him.

The truth is far more than stars and planets. The Divine is far greater than the simple things of the senses. Here is a truth -- God has the sun and moon and everything else in the palm of His hand. But to percieve this truth a person must see beyond the superficial objects of the senses with the sense of the soul. This is real freedom...which superficial nature worshippers can never understand. Such people are entrapped and blinded by the objects of the physical. The Divine teachings of the Son of God, Jesus Christ, sets a person FREE from the tyranny of the material world and the physical body, and reveals the greater spiritual experiences and wisdom of the soul.

I learned alot today - thanks for the video 7Ayreon.
So much new information to look into - im gonna take some notes about this information at check it out..

Thanks.



-
I go so far as agree that the Sun aint exactly the God - I agree about a devine power.

-
Anyway - I disagree that it's a bad thing to talk to animals and stones if you like to think I actually talk to stones.
But Animals - Heck yes! I have talked to a bunch of them - And im not feeling sorry I did that. And I somtimes speak to my plants, And I feel okay doing that part to.

But I also talk to the skies somtimes - And I don't think it's primitive at all.
And NATURE aint freakin blind.. What's that all about?

Skyway - be good.

[edit on 25-3-2007 by Ram]

Originally posted by Ram
Anyway - I disagree that it's a bad thing to talk to animals and stones if you like to think I actually talk to stones.
But Animals - Heck yes! I have talked to a bunch of them - And im not feeling sorry I did that. And I somtimes speak to my plants, And I feel okay doing that part to.

But I also talk to the skies somtimes - And I don't think it's primitive at all.
And NATURE aint freakin blind.. What's that all about?

Skyway - be good.

[edit on 25-3-2007 by Ram]

Try talking to God once in a while. You spend so much time talking to the things He created, and so little time talking to Him -- the Creator. You owe your existence to Him.

[edit on 25-3-2007 by SkyWay]