outnumbered ?

there have been a few posts here and there on Ats that say "yeah well how could you deal with the u.s. military they would roll over you. while it is certain some of the soldiers would blindly follow orders it not at all certain all of them would and even if they did the u.s. military has on active duty 1.4 million troops total not just combat soldiers and it takes roughly 10 support troops for 1 combat soldier so 1.4million is now 140,000 still seem like a lot of soldiers? well there are about 298,444,215 people in the u.s. as of 2006 so roughly 2000 people per combat soldier. and if all the troops were here then they could not be over sea in all the places they are today so it's unlikely they would all be pulled into the u.s. .

I hear what your saying and my own thought process is along the same lines. being a volunteer army we volunteer to fight the enemy not our own people. Desertion would be rampant if the ne-con criminals tried to use our army against us. Now here is the but if it did happen.
of the 2000 people per combat soldier how many of those people would have the guts/physical ability/want to fight there particular combat soldier, and how many of those fat lazy push overs would just lay down. The great unknown is the killer.

This is where the UN 'peace keepers' will come into play.
We could expect to see soldiers from other countries come here to 'protect' us from the terrorists. So many will be pleased to see other countries running to our aid to protect us here at home.

UN troops actually do some fighting?!

Ask the folks in Bosnia-Herzegovinia, Rwanda, Kosovo how much fighting the UN troops did for them?

Americans will not tolerate foreign troops occupying US soil(for very long) especially if those troops start behaving like the UN troops have in Africa, the Balkans and East Asia. The corporate controlled news media tries to make it look we are a fractured society hell bent on self destruction. The only people who think like this are the doomsday cultist like W. and his ilk. Most Americans will ignore or secretly resist any attempted control by the UN troops. We do it right now with marijuana and many other forms of contraband and theirs nothing the much larger police and other officialdom can do to stop it. First time I see a UN troop trying to bully an American, I'll patiently stalk and make sure he never bullies anyone again. The UN is a useless and corrupt body who needs to be removed from American soil. I know many New Yorkers who'll gladly help them move.

Originally posted by crgintx
UN troops actually do some fighting?!

Ask the folks in Bosnia-Herzegovinia, Rwanda, Kosovo how much fighting the UN troops did for them?

Americans will not tolerate foreign troops occupying US soil(for very long) especially if those troops start behaving like the UN troops have in Africa, the Balkans and East Asia. The corporate controlled news media tries to make it look we are a fractured society hell bent on self destruction. The only people who think like this are the doomsday cultist like W. and his ilk. Most Americans will ignore or secretly resist any attempted control by the UN troops. We do it right now with marijuana and many other forms of contraband and theirs nothing the much larger police and other officialdom can do to stop it. First time I see a UN troop trying to bully an American, I'll patiently stalk and make sure he never bullies anyone again. The UN is a useless and corrupt body who needs to be removed from American soil. I know many New Yorkers who'll gladly help them move.

I'll second that. No use for the UN here. That bunch of parasites is about useless. They are way overated and ineffective in just about anything they do. To many professional politicians not enough workers and thinkers. Just like our Congress is become.
I'd like to see the UN resettle to the next war zone where they can do some good...or professional bad.

They and all thier diplomatically immune ambassadors and staff are a huge burden on the City of New York. YOu could fill volumes with their diplomatically immune excesses at the expense of New Yorkers. I am sure many of the New Yorkers would also like to see them go.

Sickened me to see them get hit one time in Iraq and pull up shop. What a bunch of light weights.

Thanks,
Orangetom

I think that is a very scary question. The thing is...TOdays military is actually quite educated. The soldiers no longer blindly follow orders. It is a different world than it was in the 40's. The next thing to consider is soldiers killing their own people...As a former soldier myself I believe that I would have a very hard time with this. I cannot believe that todays sodiers would let it happen.

Do I put too much faith in the individual anddiscount the power of the mob...who knows. Most orders are followed because they are just and the right thing to do...some just outta fear of the UCMJ ...It may begin with a strong military but I believe (as mentioned earlier) th deserters would be rampant and then you have trained opposition employing guerilla tactics and fighting for their homes and families....that right there is enough to even the odds a little.

I am no expert on the matter...Just opinions of an old soldier...It would be a sad day indeed

-k-

in reply to angry american's question about how many people would lay down and rollover? Just remember that even the most docile creature when pushed hard enough and far enough will fight back and fight with a blind fury

Sure some soldiers would defect, however those with bills, mortgages, and other financial pressures want to protect their future, and quite honestly it would be in their best interest to fight their country-men to restore a government-controlled order and get things back to normal. Not to mention that once someone shoots at you it no longer matters what their race, species, name or religion is because its now about life and death, which transcends beyond such simple things as those mentioned. I can assure you that no matter who is threatening my life by weapon I would respond with deadly violence in kind, so what makes you think soldiers wouldn't respond the same way?

Honestly we are out numbered, way under gunned, and combat training for your normal civilian is non-existent so to say we could stand against a vastly superior fighting force is quite insane really. One could try to use the insurgents in Iraq as an example of how a irregular force could combat a conventional military; except for the fact that they have religious zeal propelling them onward, what would the people of the US have to drive them? I find it sad to say but I doubt most people here would honestly be prepared to die fighting for the Constitution and all that it represents...essentially the very foundation of this country.

pretty goods replies so far and so thought has gone into what is a sad subject. it will indeed be a dark day when the u.s. military is loosed in their homeland , but as to the will to resist i think that would come to a lot of people and as to the military beig too powerful i look to the Russian experience in afghanistan now in that area of the world the USSR was not very restrained and they still had to pack up and run, so even though a great number of our fellow countrymen/women are not prepared i feel if push came to shove they would shove back in suprizing numbers , after all if freedom is not worth fighting for then you don't deserve it.

As a military retiree, I can almost guarantee defections and refusals of unlawful order would reduce and disrupt the military to the point of paralysis. Our infantry forces in Iraq are stretched to the breaking point. A close personal friend and brother-in-arms is on his 4th deployment to Iraq and he's not the only one.

Our military currently has its hands full with the situation in Iraq and I don't think even Bush and Cheney are so politically unwise as to order the confiscation of legally owned firearms by military forces of our country much less by foreign troops without expecting a bloodbath. They would be impeached for treason 5 minutes after giving such an order. Any President would impeached after giving such an order without there being a full scale civil war happening on US soil.

There are at least 24 million trained ex-military personnel living within the US. If only a third rose up in opposition to foreign occupation, you still have 8 million trained military personnel to contend with not to mention the other millions who would support them logistically. 8 million is currently at least 3 times the number of Active Duty, Reserve and Guard troops combined total today. Like I've stated earlier foreign troops on US soil is nothing but a massacre of those troops waiting to happen.

Although I don't see this scenario happening in the near future, I do tend
to agree with crgintx that if it was to occur, we have enough trained ex-
military in this country to quash any such incident.

It would be a sad day if our fellow countrymen turned on each other
because of a corrupt and deceiving government.

It would be worst if we didn't do anything about it.

Let's let the U.N. troops deploy somewhere else.

Two issues:
Please do not say UN troops as no such force exists, all forces operating under the UN flag, are still 100% under their national command and if the governments refuse to give their troops, UN can't do anything.

Fear of UN invasion of USA is absurd, anyone who believes that needs a reality check. In order to gather enough troops to take control of the USA, we would need an allmost world wide coalition, most countries do not wish to contribute more men than they allready have on operations.

And please refrain from bashing soldiers who participate on UN peace keeping, they do all they can with the limits that politicians set to them. There are many good soldiers serving with the blue beret as i type.

Originally posted by shadow watcher
This is where the UN 'peace keepers' will come into play.
We could expect to see soldiers from other countries come here to 'protect' us from the terrorists. So many will be pleased to see other countries running to our aid to protect us here at home.

This is SPOT on IMHO. When the communists crushed the Tianneman protests, they found that local troops were somewhat reluctant to kill thier own (think the man in the tank) and the final assult was performed by troops that had been brought in from remote regions.

Hey, northwolf, lighten up. U.N. troops are U.N. troops, they are TAD to
the U.N. and you know it.
Did you pick up on shadow watcher's sarcasm? It's a "what-if" situation.

If they were asked to protect us from ourselves or terrorists, you know?

And I really don't see any troop-bashing taking place here. I believe we're
trying to say we don't want them here, . . .for many reasons.

I understand it's a what if, but IMHO it's not going to happen. What i'm trying to say is that there is no force that would be the "faceless NWO invaders" many seem to fear. For example i doubt that not a single european soldier would volunteer to "protect" US citizens in USA, since that your business not ours...

It just saddens me to see that some americans have no trust left for the rest of the world.

And believe me, i do understand why you don't want foreign troops there, neither do we. And god bless those who try to come here, they'll need it

I disagree and the reason i disagree is because of two words, New Orleans La.
A place where not only soldiers were going house to house confiscating firearms from law abiding citizens but also the mercenaries (Blackwater Security) was there going house to house confiscating firearms.
Where was the outcry when this happened? Do you think that they would just wake up one day and decide to do this? No, they will wait for some other type of disaster to strike America and they will exclaim that theyre doing this for "our protection".
Dont misunderstand me though, im not saying that this IS going to happen, im just saying that IF it does happen then I believe thats how it will go down.
I hope im wrong and I hope that we never have to find out because it would be a dark day in America if that ever did happen.

Originally posted by crgintx

Our military currently has its hands full with the situation in Iraq and I don't think even Bush and Cheney are so politically unwise as to order the confiscation of legally owned firearms by military forces of our country much less by foreign troops without expecting a bloodbath. They would be impeached for treason 5 minutes after giving such an order. Any President would impeached after giving such an order without there being a full scale civil war happening on US soil.

Notice Blackwater didn't poke their noses into Texas after Hurricane Rita. Those folks who gave up their guns were fools who should have shot the gun-grabbers the minute they crossed the threshold as the felonious criminals they were. The mayor of NOLA , governor of LA and even the President of the US have no legal authority to suspend your constitutional rights guaranteed under the 2nd Amendment during time of emergency. Even under martial law, the President's power to suspend your civil rights are very limited. If a Blackwater Agent had been killed trying to illegally seize guns from a law abiding citizen during the aftermath of Katrina, the persons who shot them couldn't have been prosecuted under LA. law. Mayor Nagin and the city of NOLA should have been sued for violating the rights of every citizen whose guns he ordered illegally seized by the Federal gov't. He had no legal authority to do so. If you let the bastards run over you, it's your own fault. The President himself had no legal justification to order seizure of legally owned firearms. A US Federal judge ordered the stop of these illegal seizures on Sept. 23 of '05. Nagin is a criminal and not the hero the press has made him out to be.

www.e-thepeople.org...

www.saf.org...

crgintx, while I agree with your post, I fear that if a NOLA resident shot a Blackwater security officer to defend his rights I would bet the farm that he would be prosecuted as a terrorist of some sort. More realistically speaking the NOLA resident would be killed during the exchange. I am hopeful that these things never happen, but I fear it will someday. I have noticed that whenever someone stands up for his beliefs in the US, he is ridiculed by the media or worse labelled a danger to others.

btw, thank you Fred.

What everway u think about, we should saport our troopps no matter what they do. If they do something rong than hope they life and get through it. I have adopted a soldiar in iraq and i send him food and letters along with presents on his b-day. Do u know how happy that makes them...?
peace

i notice that blackwater security has not posted any thing here, if there are any on this site. confiscating weapons from citizens, i wonder what it feels like to be a traitor and that "just following orders" didn't cut it a nuremberg and it won't cut it here so fess up blackwater security are you proud?

Originally posted by foxylad-ay
What everway u think about, we should saport our troopps no matter what they do.

It is statements like that that scare the H$(( out of me.

I support my brothers & Sisters in arms in the good fight. I do not and will not support evil things done in the name of patriotism. I am an American, I am a proud American. I am a fiercely patriotic American. Above all that I know that wrong done in the name of right is still WRONG! I support the troops when they are doing right and right only! Not when they are doing wrong. In todays educated armed forces just following orders doesnt cut it.
If your spouse or significant other slaps you and says its done in the name of love guess what its still wrong, you would not support that you would not condone that. You would in all likely hood stand up and say enough. You have violated my trust and now you are out of here. Maybe even in there mind it truly was done in the name of love but that don't make it right. Blind support should never be given. Blind support gives absolute power and absolute power corrupts absolutely.