Zapruder frames show driver killed JFK

reply to post by starviego


I do. I've researched and discussed this topic with Newcomb, Palamara, Robertson, Lifton, and Greer's friend Bob Milner, who recieved a copy of his manuscript. Everyone except Milner agrees that Greer played a role. I have to ask you, why does this theory seem so outlandish? It's simple, really. The secret service controlled the scene. Unfortunately, they were compromised by the CIA or military intelligence. When the sniper(s) missed, Greer was forced to turn and finish the job. Rent "Image of an Assassination" from Netflix and watch Greer carefully in the meduim format--the timing of his turn and the clarity of his left hand's actions fit with the fatal head shot. Some things are simply hidden in plain sight.

Well, I didn't see anything that proved the Driver did it!!

However I do believe, after studying the frames, he was shot from the front.

I totally ignored the driver and concentrated more on the reaction of the people standing on the grass watching what was happening.

There is a a guy who enters on the extreme right hand side at frame 344.

Now, he is suspicious.

Watch the next 15 frames, and see if you come to the same conclusion as me!!!!!

reply to post by Smack


"Ever wonder why they have this dual mission? Think it has something to do with who they really serve? The Federal Reserve. "

You know, I had no idea about that. Thanks for the info. I've got a somewhat interesting experience dealing with that, though.

A few years back the Secret Service was at my place of employment. I didn't actually work there at the time, but I have been told the stories. Anyhow, some of my co-workers were in the breakroom just chatting with this Secret Service character and he was talking on and on about how we could have a nice counterfeit operation there, with all of our elaborate printers and plotters, things you would find at every engineering firm in the country, I would suspect. I thought that was odd. Not anymore, thanks.


Btw, they were there because Dick Cheney was to be there talking to our company during the initial WhiteHouse campaign in 2000. Good thing I wasn't there. I probably wouldn't have been allowed to work that day. I'm sure they did extensive background checks on everyone at the office.

On topic, though. Yeah, I agree that the driver shot him. The first person I had ever heard claiming this was William Cooper and when I heard him, I decided to check this video to try and verify his story. I watched it numerous times. What I see happening is that JFK was hit, as was the Governor, but it appeared that John was going to possibly be alright. In fact, his wife leans in to help him out... You can see the driver look at the rear-view, turn, point (head explodes) and him just whip back around and speed off... AFTER the fatal shot. Before that, he had slown to a crawl. If anything, he helped whoever finished him off by creating a slow-moving target. Hell, the limited military training *I* have had would have saved his life there if I had been driving.... First gunshot, speed off... Quick as you can. That didn't happen here.

[edit on 8-2-2009 by Jay-in-AR]

It is so clear! I don't understand how anyone can say the Driver didn't do it!! You can clearly see him shoot our last hope in the head!!!!

[edit on 2/19/2009 by XcLuciFer]

reply to post by jblaze


I cannot really tell if the driver is shooting bud.

....but I definitely think the motor cycle cop is looking to the right...and ahead of the car...as if he had just heard a shot...from the grassy knoll!

I'll just add look at frames 315, 316.

Check it out guys!

Edit number 2...OK I'll grant you that he is shot in the head at the exact moment the driver turns around..but I can't see a gun..so it's hard to say for sure.

[edit on 19-2-2009 by kiwifoot]

[edit on 19-2-2009 by kiwifoot]

[edit on 19-2-2009 by kiwifoot]

I retract my statement the Driver didn't do it and this web site proves it, I think!

www.jfklancer.com...

Originally posted by Sliick
please, let's put this RIDICULOUS theory to bed.

Frame 312-313 is the fatal shot. Look at the driver. He's looking at JFK but he isn't holding anything besides the steering wheel. The common misconception is that the "silver .45" is clearly seen. No, that's not a gun. Look closely. Yes I know it's hard, squint a little. What you see is the sun reflecting of the top of the front right passenger's hair. Hell you can even see the line on his forehead where the shadow of the windshield frame is cast. The reason the driver looked back (while slowing the car almost to a stop) was to make sure that Kennedy was fatally wounded. He then turned around and sped off.

for the last time....

THAT'S NOT A GUN! IT'S THE SUN REFLECTING OFF OF THE SECRET SERVICE AGENT'S HAIR!!!

This is correct it is sun light reflecting off the secret service agent's head.
Check out this site, it has some pretty good close ups that can not be denied! I think..........

www.jfklancer.com...

OMG. I've never seen it from this angle before and for those of you who say you cant see the gun it is clearly raised then levelled at JFK and then the fatal shot. You can see the silver pistol directly over the hairline of the guy riding shotgun.
There is no doubt in my mind as what I just saw. The driver looks, raises a silver pistol, aims for a moment, then bang.
As to what the first lady is doing is anyones guess. She definately picks up something from the boot of the car... I guess it's a piece of JFK's head. But then she continues to try to climb out of the car towards the bodyguard on the back of the car ( who only just made it there with a lucky leap ) He grabs her arm and seems to convince her to get back in the car as it speeds off. Was she trying to escape the shooter?

Originally posted by Dragon33
OMG. I've never seen it from this angle before and for those of you who say you cant see the gun it is clearly raised then levelled at JFK and then the fatal shot. You can see the silver pistol directly over the hairline of the guy riding shotgun.
There is no doubt in my mind as what I just saw. The driver looks, raises a silver pistol, aims for a moment, then bang.
As to what the first lady is doing is anyones guess. She definately picks up something from the boot of the car... I guess it's a piece of JFK's head. But then she continues to try to climb out of the car towards the bodyguard on the back of the car ( who only just made it there with a lucky leap ) He grabs her arm and seems to convince her to get back in the car as it speeds off. Was she trying to escape the shooter?

Every time I see a MORON post something like OMG I SEE THE GUN!! I am just going to repost this.....

please, let's put this RIDICULOUS theory to bed.

Frame 312-313 is the fatal shot. Look at the driver. He's looking at JFK but he isn't holding anything besides the steering wheel. The common misconception is that the "silver .45" is clearly seen. No, that's not a gun. Look closely. Yes I know it's hard, squint a little. What you see is the sun reflecting of the top of the front right passenger's hair. Hell you can even see the line on his forehead where the shadow of the windshield frame is cast. The reason the driver looked back (while slowing the car almost to a stop) was to make sure that Kennedy was fatally wounded. He then turned around and sped off.

for the last time....

THAT'S NOT A GUN! IT'S THE SUN REFLECTING OFF OF THE SECRET SERVICE AGENT'S HAIR!!!

reply to post by jblaze


I have looked at the frames and it looks like the supposed "gun" of the driver is the passengers bald head. When I watched the videos it indeed look like a gun, but the screenshots made it more obvious to the fact that they were more likely the baldhead of the passenger. Also, a video on youtube has the video but in super slowmotion, slower than the average one, and you can clearly see the actual bullet coming into screen from the right side at about 2/3s on the side of the video screen. But the way the brains, blood and skull fragments come out totally stumps me either way.

well that was a complete waste to download. seriously OP there is no way the driver took a shot at JFK sorry. yes he slowed down so the 3rd gunman on the grassy knowl could get the kill shot.

you really should go back and look at the stills OP without putting it in a slide show so you can have time to see what is in each frame before you say "The driver did it!"

reply to post by jblaze


I'm not sure if I subscribe to this theory, but it is definitely one of the most intriguing on the subject

Frame 313 indicates a shot from behind. If you have ever seen an apple being shot in slow motion you see the same effect. This rules out the driver having shot him at close range. The spray would have been going out the back of his head if that were the case.

Originally posted by cloakndagger
Frame 313 indicates a shot from behind. If you have ever seen an apple being shot in slow motion you see the same effect. This rules out the driver having shot him at close range. The spray would have been going out the back of his head if that were the case.

hmm... I never knew that, thanks for filling me in

[edit on 20-9-2009 by ineverknew]

Originally posted by Crakeur
how could he have turned around, fired an accurate shot into Kennedy's head and turned back around without anyone noticing? How could he have done this and still driven straight? The weaving car would have forced people to look at the driver and they would have seen the shooting.

Well For starters the car was only going about 5 miles and hour or less. The driver even slowed down to take the shot. Car "weave" would not of been an issue.

When the shot is fired a silvery rectangle that looks an awful lot like a gun comes over the drivers head then in the next shot Kennedy is thrown back and Jakie looks like she wants to run for her life right over the trunk but the secret service man stops her... She recoils from the secret service man but he keeps on coming as they drive off.... Funny thing that.... the SS man is not trying to cover anyone just blocking her path.... and she for her part with draws her hand quite fast... then they all drive off.

Note the head movement of JFK. Is it back and forth? Note the spray pattern. Does it flow from a certain direction consistent with the theory.

I was surprised when I first heard this theory but as I examined it.. it was as though the truth were hidden in plain site so to speak.

In this case were you want to overthrow a presidency with a bloodless coup you want you attempt to work the first time no mess ups.... and at the same time you want to use the event to galvanize the nation.

So to be sure you put in your own men all over the driver, the men in front the men in back all loyal to you... You make sure the driver does it because he is the closest and he will not miss. Then you use your prepared story... Oswald the commie.... And so the fight against commies and into Vietnam we go...

Kinda reminds you of another recent event doesn't it?

I would theorize that the Texas Governor was paralyzed by the fear or in on it so for one reason or another he stays put.

Jakie freaks out but is stopped. The recoil of her hand is quite obvious. She want OUT.

And Kennedy.... The man opposed to the idea of Fraternal Politics...

Well we know what happened their and who benefited both short term and long term?



[edit on 20-9-2009 by titorite]

Here's the images from the JFK Lancer site, it does show it was a reflection off Kellerman's hair not a gun:



As with most things involving JFK's assassination, more questions are raised than answered. In this example

1. Why did Greer slow down instead of accelerating or even driving off the road if necessary and take evasive action. Was it because they were trained to slow down to allow the other agents, in this case, Agent Hill to reach the car and assist? Bad call if this was the case.

2. Why didn't Agent Kellerman immediately jump up and move backwards to protect the President. He just sits there like he's on a Sunday drive oblivious to what is happening.

The Secret Service really failed to protect the President in Dallas. Compare their actions to the Reagan assassination attempt, in that scenario the secret service agent shielded Reagan with his body and physically threw him into the limo out of the line of fire. Maybe they learned the hard way.

BTW, Jackie got out of the limo to retrieve a piece of JFK's skull which she later handed to a Parkland Hospital doctor, she was not trying to escape. Also the strangeness of the head shot can be explained if two bullets hit JFK's head at almost the same time, one from behind, one from in front. There were obviously more than 3 shots and more than one gunman and the United States House of Representatives Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) held between 1976-79 concluded there was more than one gunman.

[edit on 20-9-2009 by Nicolas Flamel]

[edit on 20-9-2009 by Nicolas Flamel]

Why are we even using this clip anyway? Hopefully everyone here in this thread knows that it has been heavily doctored. Many, if not all, of the witnesses claimed the car actually slowed almost to a full stop after the first or second shot. I found a hell of a good inspection of the film that shows that the film has missing frames, blurs, and some other compression techniques. Here is the site with said inspection.

For the last time....AGAIN! The driver did not shoot JFK, he merely looked back to make sure one of the 3 (yes 3) teams had scored a killshot. Hence why Agent Kellerman (front right passenger) doesn't move. He knew what was happening too and didn't want to get shot.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


Connally saw the third shot as he mistakenly said so in his testimony. He was looking at one person when the shot was fired and his name was William Greer, the ss agent who fired the famous head shot at 313.

Obviously, it couldn't have been the third, because when the third shot was fired I was in a reclining position, and heard it, saw it and the effects of it, rather--I didn't see it, I saw the effects of it--so it obviously could not have been the third, and couldn't have been the first, in my judgment.

reply to post by Kr0n0s


Greer fired the fatal shot right over Connally's head and it was very LOUD!

the third shot sounded, and I heard the shot very clearly. I heard it hit him. I heard the shot hit something, and I assumed again--it never entered my mind that it ever hit anybody but the President. I heard it hit. It was a very loud noise, just that audible, very clear.

After seven months of research I have come up with five shots that make sense all the way.

1. missed shot; frame 147-160. Connally looks left and back right by 169.

2. 225 is the first gunshot wound and enters Kennedy's throat but passes by Connally's head first. the bullet comes through the windshield. Connally flinches, throwing his hands/arms up to his left at 225.

3. Connally is struck in the back from the back at 234-238 and received four wounds. He said himself after viewing the film he was hit at 234 and his family doctor said he was in a postion to receieve those wounds around those frames.

4. William Greer, the driver fires the fatal shot at 313 creating the entrance in the right front that resulted in the massive right rear exit witnessed by around 70 people including the shooter himself, Greer and his accomplice Roy Kellerman.

5.The last two shots were bang bang as witnessed by most people and even Greer himself. The shot after Greer's is what i refer to as the 'dummie shot'. It was fired from the grassy knoll immediately after Greer to give the illusion the fatal shot was fired from the fence. THERE WAS NO NEED FOR TWO SHOTS AT THE END. His brains were blown out at 313, therefore any shots right before or after are very suspicious. That is five shots from at least 4 shooters, that's assuming the first shot that missed is the same shooter who shot the governor from behind. Zfilm with frames below.

www.youtube.com...