sex as a sin

I am still in a learning state when it comes to biblical knowledge myself, but I believe it was Paul that brought about the idea of all sexuality being sinful. He presented sex within marriage as being the "lesser of the two evils" than being promiscuous.

So how much of that ideology really comes from God is beyond me, it really sort of seems like one of the cherry picked values that religion decides to concentrate on more than the others for some reason.

Originally posted by somedude
I am still in a learning state when it comes to biblical knowledge myself, but I believe it was Paul that brought about the idea of all sexuality being sinful. He presented sex within marriage as being the "lesser of the two evils" than being promiscuous.

So how much of that ideology really comes from God is beyond me, it really sort of seems like one of the cherry picked values that religion decides to concentrate on more than the others for some reason.

Well what Paul is pretty much saying there is if you can't keep from sinning if the urge is just to great and keeps you from getting closer to the Father then get married. I lay mans terms if sexual sin has such a hold on you it is better to hurry and marry than risk going to hell.


No where is the bible does it say sex is a sin. I've already given a few good reasons for waiting that could be seen as not even religious.

I've seen alot of ppl with regrets of sleeping with others not even for religious reasons. Simply because that person is not who they thought them to be or they have gotten an STD or pregnant then they must choose other options.

I'm not saying (especially in todays world) that every marriage will work nor am I saying it would end all heart ache or STDs. But if more ppl waited until marriage today there would be far less of all of the above. Even from a nonreligious stand point I can see how so many ppl out there just see sex from a one sided selfish point of view. There are so many things to consider even more so now than in the past that sex is a HUGHE undertaking. So much can happen so much can change weigh out the span of time sex < life.

If not waiting until marriage now for religious reasons I agree with but for other implications I think there should be some sort of lisence for sex along with mandatory classes before hand. Not only that but medical records for things such as STDs should be worn around the necks of ppl and kept up to date.

I personaly would stay single from here on out if some thing happened with me and my wife the spread of STDs is like wild fire now and as I and other posters have mentioned nothing is 100% accept not having sex. I'ld rather die lonely than die with an STD.

All IMHO of course.

Raist

Originally posted by TheB1ueSoldier

Originally posted by millerman So if these things are "wrong" or sinful.... why do people crave them so much? Why would God create people to crave these experiences - and then punish them for it?

That's your excuse? Basically, you're saying "God created me to enjoy bdsm, therefore I am cursed to go to hell because I can't help myself." Sorry, but I think that's bull$h!t.

Where did I say THAT?

How do you explain people who choose to wait until after marriage to have sex?

Umm.... they're very very patient, and they don't get out much.....?

How do you explain people who are pedophiles or rapists?

Umm.... they're sick people who like to hurt people? What's your point here? I was talking about consensual sex, obviously....

Did God create these people to "crave these experiences"? I don't think so. Instead, God created Free Will so that people could choose what they wanted and didn't want to do.

Exactly. "Do what you will but harm none."

You really twisted my argument around. What I'm talking about is the following sort of logic:

God creates the concept of chocolate bars.
God makes them taste delicious and makes people crave them.
God denounces chocolate-bar-eaters as "sinners" and sends them to eternal fiery torment in hell.

Now don't you think that would be an exceptionally cruel thing for God to do? Well it's the same thing with sex:

God creates women.
God gives women beautiful, desirable bodies. Beautiful hair, eyes, faces, lips, necks, breasts, butts, legs.
God also makes their bodies FEEL incredible, and makes us WANT to look at them and touch them and explore them.
God denounces a man that has sex with a woman (well, except for his wife) as a "sinner" and sends him to eternal fiery torment in hell.

Basically what I am saying is... God is not cruel like that. I do not believe that he deliberately tempts people by making things simultaneously pleasurable and "sinful". That is CRUELTY.

If many people crave multiple partners, maybe there's a REASON and maybe it's actually OKAY TO DO IT....

[edit on 1-3-2007 by millerman]

My opinion, was used by religions as one of the main ways to instill fear and guilt to help control us. They used sex because it is one of our strongest desires as human's.

This could spread to tons of different ideas and viewpoints. There are various fine lines in this topic. To me it is not a sin, but if you thought about some of the tons of different ways this discussion could go, there are some offshoots of this topic that I do think it is a sin. But sex itself is not a sin, it is just used by the different scum to control us.

Originally posted by kerrichin
i dont understand how sex can be a sin.

Who said it was? I don't know of any main stream religion, outside of the Shakers perhaps, that say sex is a sin.

Many say that sex at certain times, such as outside of marriage, is a sin. But they dont' say that sex itself is a sin.

Sounds like one of those Laws made up by grumpy old Men and Women who don't like to see kids have too much fun.
And of course elderly celibate priests are going to be against too much sex.

Of course it's about control and order, which is why women get treated even harder than guys when they break this Law. Marry who we want you to marry, save your child bearing for the Husband that we approve of. Don't ruin you market value by becoming second hand goods.

Originally posted by emjoi
Of course it's about control and order, which is why women get treated even harder than guys when they break this Law...

I'm not sure what you mean by "women get treated even harder than guys when they break this Law." What "Law" are you talking about? And personally, I don't know of any law in which women are treated more harshly than men. Usually, its the other way around such as domestic disturbance and pedophilia charges.

Anyways, in the bible Jesus is much more lenient towards sex than the Jewish officials of his day. Read the book of John chapter 8.

Oh come on. Of course I'm not talking about the US Legal System, and I'm not accusing Jesus of being a sexist pig.

Women have always been cracked down on harder than men for sexual promiscuity. Just the way things have been, not just in Christian society, but all over the world. Social restrictions codified into Religion. They hold alot more weight when instead of "Sleeping around upsets your Grandfather" becomes "Sleeping around upsets God".

Originally posted by emjoi
Women have always been cracked down on harder than men for sexual promiscuity. Just the way things have been, not just in Christian society, but all over the world.

You cannot say "women have always blah blah blah," just like the same way I can't say "emjoi has always enjoyed a can of milk every afternoon." It just doesn't work. Give me an example. Give me a specific law. Give me one instance of what you just said. Don't just give me your own opinion about how laws work.

I think it has to do with the fact that most men would be absolutely outraged at the thought that their wife cheated on them and got impregnated by another man - and indeed about 10% of men with children are actually raising a child that's not their own. I think that is why promiscuous women have always been treated so harshly...

"18 years, 18 years, and on the 18th birthday he found out it wasn't HIS!??!?!?!"

"Holla we want pre-nup, we want pre-nup, yeah"

Well, that's one of the reason's why adultery is a sin. To prevent broken hearts, promiscuity, and separate lust from love.

Originally posted by TheB1ueSoldier
"Holla we want pre-nup, we want pre-nup, yeah"

Well, that's one of the reason's why adultery is a sin. To prevent broken hearts, promiscuity, and separate lust from love.

Yep, it was such a problem that they had to use Religion to contain it, make it a "SIN" punishable by death.... ;-)

Sex is not a sin. The bible was created by the hand of man and not by god. We are gods. Religion was created to enslave the masses and force us all to be slaves and to have no true free will.

Originally posted by CPYKOmega
Sex is not a sin. The bible was created by the hand of man and not by god. We are gods. Religion was created to enslave the masses and force us all to be slaves and to have no true free will.

............. no.

I don't know where you get these ideas from, but please do some further research such as visiting a church or reading a bible. You do not possibly have the knowledge to make such grand assumptions about a two thousand year old doctrine that 2.5 billion people on Earth believe in.

Comman sense tells you that if you weren't supposed to have sex it wouldn't be the optimal way to continue birthing babies and passing DNA after our individual bodies die.

Sex is part of being human.

If it is a sin then it is the biggest setup to failure ever.

Originally posted by TheB1ueSoldier

I don't know where you get these ideas from, but please do some further research such as visiting a church or reading a bible. You do not possibly have the knowledge to make such grand assumptions about a two thousand year old doctrine that 2.5 billion people on Earth believe in.

I have read the bible before. So I know what I am talking about. That book is a joke. It was written so a 5 year old can understand it. Do you really think that someone (GOD) would be so cruel as to make people suffer in hell for an eternity? If he created the Universe and everything in it then you would think he has a bit more intelligence then to make people suffer.

I don't have a clue if Biblical stories are true or not, but I have tried to know.

It only makes sense that if we choose to partake of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil then we would experience just that.

Hence pain and suffering along with joy and pleasure. According to the story HE told us not to eat it so he tried to teach us to avoid the experience we choose and acted on.

Now we seem to be stuck here.

Originally posted by CPYKOmega
I have read the bible before. So I know what I am talking about. That book is a joke. It was written so a 5 year old can understand it.

So, you're telling me that theologians and philosophers have all been studying, researching, and writing hundreds upon hundreds of novels about a "child's book"? You're telling me that great men like Martin Luther King Jr., Mahatmas Gandhi, and the founding fathers have taken their advice from a "joke"?

Perhaps it is you that does not understand all of the underlying messages and deep meanings of the bible. For example, I'm betting that you know all about the literal meaning of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. But, I'm also betting that you know nothing about the interwoven metaphors mentioned about his crucifixion. For example, the gospels tell us that Jesus was crucified on a Friday. The following day would be Saturday, the day of Sabbath. Meaning that Jesus' death was an allegory for the sacrificial lamb. The sacrificial lamb killed on the eve of Sabbath is a sacrifice in exchange for relieving us of our sin. Jesus Christ's crucifixion was the sacrifice that forgave the entire world for our sin. Go read the bible again, but this time pay attention to the incredibly deep parables and such.

Originally posted by CPYKOmega
Do you really think that someone (GOD) would be so cruel as to make people suffer in hell for an eternity? If he created the Universe and everything in it then you would think he has a bit more intelligence then to make people suffer.

Its not cruelty, its called justice. We learn much more about our mistakes if we actually feel the repercussions than if God just says "Stop doing that". The United States of America imprisons people for their entire lives and puts people to death every day, but I don't see you writing a petition to free the criminals from jails. I guess you're selective on who you call "cruel."

** Edit to fix quotes

[edit on 3/19/2007 by TheB1ueSoldier]

No BlueSoldier. Your version of God is cruel.

And the Bible *IS* the product of man. Jesus did not hand a Bible to St Peter and say "This is my Word". The Bible is the product of men... perhaps inspired men, but still that's all they were. The decision that the Bible is "Gods Word" was once again, a human decision.

Originally posted by emjoi
No BlueSoldier. Your version of God is cruel.

Whoa there, don't overwhelm me with facts and citations! I can't handle that much evidence all at once! But yeah, thanks for providing a valid argument.

Originally posted by emjoi
And the Bible *IS* the product of man. Jesus did not hand a Bible to St Peter and say "This is my Word". The Bible is the product of men... perhaps inspired men, but still that's all they were. The decision that the Bible is "Gods Word" was once again, a human decision.

Here's a very good thread from the ATS archives about what you're talking about: www.belowtopsecret.com...
I just don't have the energy or patience to write out a lengthy retort right now, but I have a few posts in that thread you can read.