Why Americans are Skeptical of Their Role in Global Warming

You're sorta missing the point, and you CERTAINLY missed what I was saying about the Tahoe and the Prius... lol... I never suggested that the Tahoe got better mileage or cost less to operate. I said the process to make some of the speical components of the Prius makes the energy difference closer than you are led to believe with marketing campaigns. I also said that people are still buying way more Tahoes than Prius and there's an econimic incentive to keep building Tahoes when peopel are buying them.

I'm fully aware that GM sold their stock in Toyota, and Fuji, and a few others. Point being, the had access to the tech, and they DID take it. What some people don't know, is that GM had hybrid tech before Toyota that stemmed from the EV1 and it's varients. Including one that used a small turbine and achieved just short of 100mpg.

Also, if you're into cars at all, you should be aware of the ACTUAL mileage a Prius gets. It's not 60 mpg. USA Today tested 48 mpg, C&D was around 44 mpg, etc... This is the NEW Prius. The old one was averaging around 38-41 mpg. If an American car lied this badly about fuel economy, it would be an international scandal. But... it's Toyota... so we don't see it as much.

Sure the EV-1 was 'overpriced', it was the first of it's kind. It also ran a road course faster than a Miata and had 0 emissions and 0 gas use. What do you want? Free? Also, the fact that you called the EV1 overpriced makes me wonder what you know about it.... since NONE were actually sold. There were all leases starting at $229/mo through Saturn dealers.

[edit on 20-2-2007 by sp00ner]

Environmental protection is all fine but singling out CO2 is a misdirected effort based on simplisitic understanding of spectral absorption ( of certain wavelenghts).


edit: see www.abovetopsecret.com...'


reducing consumption of energy is a good idea as long as it's not diverting efforts from more pressing issues such as heavy metal contamination, NOx emissions and destruction of natursal habitats. remeber the rainforest scare of the 90s ? well it's still going on this time for increased sugar cane production for biofuel (ethanol), all in the name of environmental protection.....


answer me one simple question: why aren't other greenhouse gases, especially methane taken into account, in a way which would allow you to offset CO2 emissions by using biofermenters (for agricultural waste products) to catch some methane and get some natural to boot?


PS: the America bashing is getting out of hand, granted a lot is apparently rotten in Bushland, yet f-ex. EU states clandestinely support everything they do, including personal data exchange, 'rendition' flights to torturing countries and so on. China and India could not care less about the environment and aren't even included in the Kyoto accords, because of their status of developing countries. i have no idea how i got to defend the USA, but if you bash, do it with reason and a bit more than just emotion to back it, ffs.

[edit on 20-2-2007 by Long Lance]

Global warming is a crock. Yes the world is heating up and as someone pointed out earlier, it's caused by the sun's increased solar output. It's a scientific fact that the whole solar system is heating up. The biggest solar flares in recorded history are predicted to happen between the years 2011-2012. That's not to say that we shouldn't make preparations to combat global warming, but personally I just cant see it happening any time soon.

Need I remind people that it's the current governments around the world that have done nothing and got us into this mess in the first place. You have to laugh at those naive and gullible people who assume that these same people are going to get us out of this mess. Let's face it, they only care about power and wealth. Sorry to say it, but it's not looking good for the majority of humanity, but whatever happens, for better or worse, those who survive will adapt.

P.S Can't wait for the UN's Global Warming tax.

Yes other countries should also. I just read an ANON post to this. They made a good point about how we look in the mirror and do nothing, hoping someone would tell us what to do. I have always concerned myself with conservation. As should everyone else.

Kindred you just contradicted yourself by global warming is a crock. Then you stated that the governments got us in this mess. Which one is it?

The technology is there. In order to use hydrogen we can use the same engines we have now. It's not that hard. I've done it on a small scale. You can make cheap hydrogen, breaking the laws of physics, in your own garage. Why doesn't the government start promoting hydrogen...it's not in it's economic interest. But a $12 trillion war is??

Kindred:

I fully agree. These people believe that reptilians are running the world and that government coverups anything and everything. Incredibly, they completely agree with their leaders on the G.W. issue. The only reason this is the case is because they happen to agree that G.W. is a manmade phenomenon. Now if the government tells them U.F.O.s aren't real, the government is still lying to them....

Also found in that link is a reference to the fact that the 1/3rd of the world's population that lives in China and India are not required to reduce their carbon emissions and many more smaller developing nations are not required to comply, either.

Realistically, its hard to blame the United States under the circumstances. Considering the state of relations between China and the United States, it simply is not in our national interests to sign an agreement that creates an uneven economic playing field with a major global competitor. It also makes no sense to place ourselves under restrictions if the majority of the world's population will not be subject to those restrictions due to developing nation status.

If the Kyoto accords were amended to require compliance of ALL nations, I would be in support of the US signing and adhering to it.

Can you explain why you believe governments must approve the work of inventors?

If an inventors work product functions as designed, and is in demand by consumers, you can bet the farm the product will come to the market and be a success. The government has no say except in terms of patent law and public safety.

While I believe the Earth has been going under recent warming, I do not believe we are the cause of it. The sun's output has been warming the entire solar system

Click Here

Man-made global warming is a false issue made up by politicians and scientists with an agenda. I would love to see an extremist try and show how SUV's are causing warming on Mars, Jupiter, Titon and Pluto.

As far as Hybrids and Diesel are concerned, hybrids produce less waste than that of Diesel engines. That black smoke, that's not good for the environment. Maybe Toyata lied, yet their MPG is still better than that of the Tahoe, or any car we have out there. My car gets 40mpg, is it a hybrid, no, because I couldn't afford it. If I could, I'd buy a hybrid or a diesel and run BioDiesel in the car. There are less toxic fumes and pollutants stored in BioDiesel than that of regular Diesel. The US should promote alternative fuels other than ethanol. Ethanol is another government ploy because you cannot easily make it in your backyard, unlike BioDiesel. The government has it's hand in everything that will make it money, again a corporate government. It seems that this government has it's meathooks in you already.

The government must approve the work of inventors for safety and judicial reasons. If I made a Hydrogen Fission machine, I'd most definately violate major laws. You need a permit to do such things. Also, if I was carting around mass quantities of Hydrogen fuel, more combustable than TNT, don't you think the Gov't would be concerned.

You have truly lived up to your name with that statement there. I do have to say, Ive noticed a dicrease in those who believe in personal responsiblity and accountablity in this nation. I mean look at all the frivilous lawsuits out there, most notably those who sue gun manufacturers when a gun kills someone, when in fact, a gun cant pull the trigger by itself. This trend concerns me greatly.

For the car guys.... my wife's Hybrid Camry averages 39mpg. It's also very quiet and smooth, with lots of cabin room (trunk-space is another issue = electric motor takes up some). It's no turbo-charged rocket, but it's a great car!

Yes, and my 300 hp supercharged american 4-cyl gets 31 mpg... We've somehow got a bit off topic on the main issue here.... but when it comes to why/how about hybrids, it's no different than the rest of alternative techs. They're alternatives, not a silver bullet. There are VW's out there that crush my mileage with turbo diesels.

As far as deadly leftovers and emissions, how up to date is everyone about battery disposal and contamination? This is a nightmare that all the current hybrid manufacturers are downplaying just a touch.

For people that don't believe in global warming, if you don't have something to contribute to THIS topic. Please don't. Or at least hide your real intention on a wrapper that looks like it's aimed at this thread.

Everything mentioned in this thread has a 'but' involved in it.

Bio-diesel - Great, as long as you don't drive in the winter. You think regular diesel jells up.. Bio is REAL bad right now.

Hydrogen - Great, as long as it's made from solar, hydro or wind power. Anything else is a net loss which results in more pollution than gas, since the amont of domestic energy from coal/oil is far greater than clean sources.

^---- also, these two have SERIOUS infrastructure issues that would take at least 5-10 years to solve.

Hybrid - Great, as long as you don't drive at high speeds. Take one across the country at 75 mph, like the speed limit through most of the middle america, and that electric motor never comes on. Not to mention disposal and costs. That $3000 rebate won't last forever.

As far as why American's wont' admit their role, you're seeing it in action right here...

[edit on 20-2-2007 by sp00ner]

Dude, don't worry. You have the right idea. Global Warming is a FACT! But it's human nature not to react to a dire situation until it becomes critical. Most people probably assume since it's something that won't effect us for a decade or two, that it's not an immediate problem.

I don't think you were pointing fingers at anyone specific, I get where you're coming from.

[edit on 20-2-2007 by atlantisrising]

Nuclear has never been clean. Anything that is that toxic for 10,000 years and more is simply dirty and dangerous and nothing less.

What American car do you drive that gets 31mpg with a turbo? Do you know how a turbo works? It consumes more gas. Unless it'a a magic turbo!

I've looked into the turbochared 4 cylinder engines with 300hp getting 31mpg. I have yet to find one, but I'll keep on looking. V6, yes, 4 cylinder, not yet. It just so happens that a turbocharger is not fuel efficient in a 4 cylinder car due to the fact that the engines are too small. 1.8L Turbocharged engines would get you about 170HP if you're lucky with @ 5psi with gas mileage between 20 and 25 city, and depending on what RPMs you have the turbo spool at, you will have worse mileage in the higher RPMs unless you have extremely good overdrive capabilities.

As far as hydrogen production being fuel efficient...
Super-Efficient Electrolysis

lol... a turbo works by using gas? I was under the impression that it takes heat energy passing down the exhaust, thereby spinning a small turbine with wasted heat energy. Learn something new every day. Unless of course you're referring to my blower as a turbo.

I have a 2005 Saturn Ion Redline. It came from the factory with ~240hp, 205 is advertised, and it currently puts down 265hp to the front wheels on 93 octane. Yes, I do have dynos as backup. I do not have a detailed fuel log for you though, sorry.

The Saturn Sky/Pontiac Solstice do the exact same thing, and get better mileage that a Honda S2000.