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Coverup of FAA Role in Gutting Pentagon Defense

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posted on Feb, 16 2007 @ 01:28 AM
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This is a direct quote from the 9/11 Commission Report, page 26:

www.gpoaccess.gov...




Military Notification and Response. NORAD heard nothing about the search for American 77.

Instead, the NEADS air defenders heard renewed reports about a plane that no longer existed:American 11.

At 9:21, NEADS received a report from the FAA:

FAA: Military, Boston Center. I just had a report that American 11 is still
in the air, and it’s on its way towards—heading towards Washington.


NEADS: Okay. American 11 is still in the air?

FAA:Yes.

NEADS: On its way towards Washington?

FAA: That was another—it was evidently another aircraft that hit the
tower.That’s the latest report we have.


NEADS: Okay.

FAA: I’m going to try to confirm an ID for you, but I would assume
he’s somewhere over, uh, either New Jersey or somewhere further
south.

NEADS: Okay. So American 11 isn’t the hijack at all then, right?

FAA: No, he is a hijack.

NEADS: He—American 11 is a hijack?

FAA: Yes.

NEADS: And he’s heading into Washington?

FAA: Yes. This could be a third aircraft.

The mention of a “third aircraft”was not a reference to American 77.



So why has the FAA's role in gutting the Pentagon defense been covered up?

Somebody at the FAA called NEADS to report that Flight 11 did NOT hit WTC1, and was heading towards Washington, which caused the fighters to be scrambled away from two hijacked airplanes bearing down on the capital.

And yet the 9/11 Commission never identified the person who gave this misinformation to NEADS, or how the FAA wrongly decided that Flight 11 did not hit WTC1 and was heading towards Washington D.C.

Why is the FAA's role in leaving the Pentagon vulnerable to attack being covered up?




posted on Feb, 16 2007 @ 01:47 AM
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Hey, neat! I had more on my plate than I thought so I didn't do it first, so good job dude.
This is a great seam that contributes to our undesrtand of that old mystery - thirty minutes after everyone knew we were under attack by multiple hijacked airliners, one of them hit the Pentagon totally unaware, unprepared, undefended. Nick started a previous thread on this, but at my suggestion gave it a more oomphy title and re-posted it. The original thread is here, until I copy over the key points.



posted on Feb, 16 2007 @ 03:29 AM
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This is a fascinating complex of evidence, and to understand it best, it'll help to read the original thread first "Evidence of a Cover-Up." It’s all good stuff – but this one is like the new cool re-named one that’s gonna crack through.

Nick7261 started with 9/11 Commission pointing out that NORAD had given them “incorrect” information, under oath, regarding their awareness of and reaction to the hijackings of Flight 93 and 77.

“rather than accept the specific testimony under oath of NORAD officials, [...] the 9/11 Commission claims that the NORAD officials were told by an unidentified FAA employee that Flight 11 did not hit WTC1 and was heading south towards Washington D.C. The 9/11 Commission stated that they were unable to identify who it was at the FAA who gave NORAD this misinformation.
source:9/11 Commission Report, p. 34 (PDF file)

He wondered if the FAA version was true, who gave the false info on Flight 11, why, and why the anonymity? And conversely if the the original NORAD version were true, then why did the Commission make up the new FAA version instead? It's possible, as Nick said, that the Commission "fabricated the story that the fighters were chasing a plane that didn't exist to explain how two hijacked planes were flying unimpeded towards their targets." Either way, there’s a cover-up.

I added my observations regarding the personnel placement of the morning:

- The National Military Command Center (NMCC), beneath the Pentagon, is the command and control “nerve center” for the military leadership if America comes under attack. Also used for other activities requiring centralized coordination – like passing on requests for fighter assistance in case of a hijacking and, I’d guess, coordinating air-based War games, of which there were at least five on 9/11

- Otherwise the NMCC sits ready, run by the Deputy Director of Operations (DDO). Acting DDO on 9/11, Navy Capt. Charles Leidig, testified to the 9/11 Commission “on 10 September 2001, Brigadier General Winfield, US Army, asked that I stand a portion of his duty […] on the following day. I agreed and relieved [him] at 0830 on 11 September 2001.” At that minute, Flight 11 was right between its hijacking (8:15) and its impact with the WTC (8:46), and so a recently qualified but inexperienced rookie was in charge during the attack. Winfield took the helm back at 10:00, as the attack ended.

- At 9:29, 26 minutes after the second crash, Leidig opened a “significant event" phone conference and at 9:30 announced that he was just told American 11 was still airborne. That did not come directly from the FAA, as the Commission pointed out they were not on the line. It was also exactly 9:30 that the Langley fighter pilots finally took off, and so Leidig gave them this new ghost target, which wound up distracting them from the very real Flight 77 as it closed in on his own location and entered radar screens again.
source: First Day Jitters

- Ben Sliney: hired as the nation’s “air traffic chess master” just "weeks" before 9/11, his first day on the job saw him issuing the first ever ground stop of all air traffic, and was called on to make major decisions: “NORAD […] asked ME if I were requesting military intervention. And I indicated to NORAD that I’m advising you of the facts of this particular incident. I’m not requesting anything. I wasn’t sure I even had the authority to request such a thing.” Then he gets to play himself by sheer chance, rehashing his stressful first day in the Flight 93 movie. Brought in as a replacement no less, probably at the last minute.

- Then there's the evidence that the air defense of Washington was, effectively gutted, but that's for another post. Tomorrow. You can tell I'm not usually a message board person.

[edit on 16-2-2007 by Caustic Logic]

[edit on 16-2-2007 by Caustic Logic]



posted on Feb, 16 2007 @ 05:02 PM
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My info on the air defense is from my blog "They Let It Happen."
I have previously mentioned the role of phanton Flight 11 here:
they-let-it-happen.blogspot.com...

Figter scrambles: only two pairs ready in the Norteast Air Defense Sector:
- Otis AFB, Cape Cod Mass, two F-15s scrambled to intercept AA11 at 8:52. They were not told it had already crashed until they got to Manhattan.
- Langley AFB, southern VA. NEADS called Langley at about 9:15 and asked national guardsman “Honey” urgently “how many planes can you send?” He had a pair, NEADS demanded a thrid plane at hand also be sent. Once all were ready, two F-16s and the third mystery jet, and took off at 9:30.

It's on the Langley pilots that we now focus: The 9/11 com. concluded they were not being sent to intercept American 77 just seen closing in on Washington, but rather towards New York - due to that mistaken FAA information that 11 was headed their way.
they-let-it-happen.blogspot.com...
They were sent slow, to avoid violating an EPA ban on sonic booms - reportedly 500-600 mph, when an F-16 has top speed of 1500 mph. They flew due east over the ocean, away from Washington. The 9/11 Commission concluded in their final report. “unlike a normal scramble order, this order did not include a distance to the target, or the target’s location.”
they-let-it-happen.blogspot.com...

As they headed north, they happened to pass the Pentagon and saw the smoke billowing from it. Lou said “holy smoke, that’s why we’re here.” Jere Longman: ”The lead pilot was asked on his radio to verify whether the Pentagon was burning…. “That’s affirmative,” Honey replied.” But not having been informed of a plane in the area, the pilots presumed it was a truck bomb or something of that nature.” (Among the Heroes, page 76)

After confirming the attack there was complete, they were then sent to investigate. The 9/11 Com. noted that Honey told them “you couldn’t see any planes, and no one told us anything.” They concluded “the pilots knew their mission was to divert aircraft, but did not know that the threat came from hijacked airliners.” Despite the most advanced technology in the world, the pilots were informed of their failure via primitive smoke signal.

According the Longman, the Langley pilots also “did not even learn about Flight 93, or a plane crashing in Pennsylvania, until they returned to Langley” at around 2 pm. Two hijacked planes had targeted Washington – AA77 and UA93. The Langley pilots were somehow never told of either.
they-let-it-happen.blogspot.com... ml

And they were never given permission to act (that is, to fire on hijacked planes). he Langley pilots did receive a vague order at 9:55 from the Secret Service: “I want you to protect the White House” This was not taken by the pilots as a clear shoot-down order, signed off on by the proper authorities. Fifteen minutes later, in fact, the pilots were told they had “negative clearance to shoot.” Jere Longman concluded that after patrolling Washington for hours “both Honey and Lou said that no one had given them any orders to shoot down a commercial airliner.”

The Otis pilots never got the order either. “Only the President could make that decision,” one of them explained to the Cape Cod Times, “and he was indisposed at a public event,” referring to his now-famous "Pet Goat" reading exercise in Florida.
they-let-it-happen.blogspot.com... html



posted on Feb, 16 2007 @ 07:13 PM
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And they were never given permission to act (that is, to fire on hijacked planes). he Langley pilots did receive a vague order at 9:55 from the Secret Service: “I want you to protect the White House”


How was it that the Secret Service could be in direct contact with the pilots? And how would they know it was from the Secret Service?

Also, is it accurate to say that NEADS was relying 100% on the FAA reports re the radar returns of the flight locations? I.e., why didn't NEADS have their own radar to track the planes?



posted on Feb, 16 2007 @ 07:57 PM
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Both good Qs, and also, ref. to the OP here, why was FAA reporting this Flight 11 was "presumably" over NJ or wherever? Where was their radar track? No transponder sure, but primary radar was I thought everywhere but over the approach to the Pentagon.



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 08:41 AM
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Originally posted by Caustic Logic
Both good Qs, and also, ref. to the OP here, why was FAA reporting this Flight 11 was "presumably" over NJ or wherever? Where was their radar track? No transponder sure, but primary radar was I thought everywhere but over the approach to the Pentagon.


Here's a better question...

Why is there no subsequent report from the FAA to NEADS saying something like, "NEADS... this is Boston Center... looks like the previous report re Flight 11 was false. Repeat... Flight 11 is not heading south towards Washington...."

Is there any record of the FAA recanting this false report?



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 10:34 AM
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This post documents in detail FAA's complicity in Flight 93 cover-up. FAA ordered ATCs evacuated so that Flight 93 could not be tracked on radar and at the same time told FAA Headquarters that controllers "lost track" of Flight 93 near Pittsburgh.

www.gpoaccess.gov... (see page 29)

So let's summarize the events depicted by the 9/11 Commission:

1) By 9:02 am FAA and NEADS are aware that hijacked airplanes have hit WTC1 and WTC2.

2) At 9:42 am, FAA is aware that hijacked plane has hit Pentagon

3) At 9:46 am Ben Sliney at FAA Command Center is aware that Flight 93 is hijacked, and is only 29 minutes outside of Washington.

4) At 9:49, 13 minutes after Cleveland asks about getting military assistance, Sliney finally asks FAA headquarters about scrambing some jets. At this point Flight 93 is only 26 minutes outside of Washington.

5) FAA Headquarters tells Sliney everybody left the room and there is nobody there to make decision re intercepting Flight 93.


The story gets more incredulous... from the 9/11 Commission Report:


9/11 Commission Report, page 29

At 9:53, FAA headquarters informed the Command Center (Sliney) that the deputy director for air traffic services was talking to Monte Belger about scrambling aircraft.

Then the Command Center informed headquarters that controllers had lost track of United 93 over the Pittsburgh area.



This is THE "smoking gun" of the entire operation. I hate to use the term "smoking gun" because it's so overused, but if there is a "smoking gun" this is it.

Why?

Because it was Ben Sliney at Command Center that informed FAA headquarters that controllers "lost track" of Flight 93 over Pittsburgh. The freakin' controllers didn't "lose track" of Flight 93. They were ordered to evacuate the control tower at 9:49, presumably by FAA Command Center (who else?).

Here's a link to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette story from Sept. 23. Read down about 2/3 of the way:

www.post-gazette.com...


Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Sept. 23, 2001

Full (Bob Full, head of Allegheny County emergency operations) learned about the errant plane at 9:53 a.m. That's when he got a call alerting him that the control tower at Pittsburgh International Airport had been evacuated. Thirteen minutes earlier, he had talked to an airport official who had no indication of any threat.

Between those two conversations, the Pittsburgh tower had received a call from the Cleveland air traffic control tower, saying a plane was heading toward Pittsburgh and refusing to communicate with controllers. The FAA ordered the Pittsburgh control tower evacuated at 9:49 a.m.


So now, let's start piecing this together.

1) Everybody knows that 3 hijacked planes hit the WTC and Pentagon by 9:49 am.

2) At 9:42 Sliney orders FAA to instruct "all aircraft" (4,500 total) to land at the nearest airports immediately. This was un unprecedented order, and an order that would have immediately overwhelmed ATC all across the country, including the ATCs in Pittsburgh.

3) 7 minutes after ordering all aircraft to land, the FAA orders the Pittsburgh control tower evacuated. Simultaneously, the FAA Command Center is pondering sending fighters to shoot down Flight 93, but guess what? THEY LOST TRACK OF FLIGHT 93 BECAUSE THE CONTROL TOWER IN PITTSBURGH WAS EVACUATED!!

So now you may be wondering how they "found" Flight 93 since there were no ATCs in the radar tower in Pittsburgh (or Cleveland). Simple, the 9/11 Commission "answers" that for us:


9/11 Commission Report, page 30

Within seconds,the Command
Center received a visual report from another aircraft, and informed head-quarters that the aircraft was 20 miles northwest of Johnstown. United 93 was spotted by another aircraft, and, at 10:01, the Command Center advised FAA headquarters that one of the aircraft had seen United 93 “waving his wings.”


So "within seconds" after ordering the controllers from the Pittsburgh ATC tower, the FAA received a visual report from an aircraft that spotted Flight 93.

If this were a court case, this is where the defense attorney would object because the "chain of evidence" was broken. Flight 93 was being tracked on radar, then the controllers were ordered out of the ATC tower.

Next, Sliney tells FAA Headquarters that another pilot saw Flight 93. So here's the question: How did Sliney, or the pilot, know it was Flight 93????

Even if we stipulate that there even WAS another pilot who somehow managed to radio to air traffic controllers that he saw Flight 93... BUT WAIT... who did this pilot talk to on the radio if the controllers were already evacuated from the control towers in Cleveland, Johnstown, and Pittsburgh?

And of course the end of this story is equally unbelievable. With all ATCs who could have seen the last 12 minutes of Flight 93 on radar already out of the control towers, the next person to identify Flight 93 was Steve O'Brien, the C-130H pilot who also visually identified Flight 77 just before it hit the Pentagon.

So according to the 9/11 Commission Report, there is no way to verify what happened to Flight 93 between 9:49 and 10:03 am. (BTW, orignal crash time was reported as 10:06 am)



[edit on 17-2-2007 by nick7261]

[edit on 17-2-2007 by nick7261]



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 11:12 AM
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More on Flight 93 and FAA

Here is another little talked about, but important, detail re Flight 93, the FAA, and the Johnstown airport.

It turns out that the FAA told the Johnstown ATC to evacuate their control tower as well because Flight 93 was heading straight towards their airport from the SOUTH.

Problem is, Johnstown is North of Shanksville, where Flight 93 crashed. The official flight path shows Flight 93 heading SE from Cleveland towards Shanksville, going over Johnstown from the north.

And yet the FAA told Johnstown that Flight 93 was heading at them from the South. This caused the head ATC at Johnstown to scout the skies towards the south, towards Somerset, with his binoculars.

Here's a link to a news story from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette from Oct. 2001 that documents this:

www.post-gazette.com...




Sometime shortly before 10 a.m., the direct line from Cleveland Air Traffic Control rang inside the control tower at Johnstown-Cambria County Airport, 70 miles east of Pittsburgh.

Did Johnstown tower have any radio contact with a large aircraft about 20 miles to its south? Supervisor Dennis Fritz and controller Thomas Hull picked up binoculars -- the tower has no radar -- and scanned the horizon to the south. The day was clear and, from the highest point in the area, they could spot radio towers in neighboring Somerset County. A large plane would have stood out.

"We didn't see a thing," Fritz said.

Hull went on the radio and broadcast an open message: "Aircraft 20 South of the field, contact Johnstown tower ... ."

Ninety seconds later, Cleveland called back. The plane was now 15 miles south and heading directly for the Johnstown tower.

"We suggest you evacuate," they told him.

Fritz ordered trainees and custodial staff out of the 85-foot tower. He and Hull stayed at their posts and scanned the south with binoculars. It occurred to Fritz that the plane must be flying below the level of the mountain ridges around them.

(snip)

Forty-five seconds after telling Fritz to evacuate the Johnstown tower, Cleveland Air Traffic Control phoned again.

"They said to disregard. The aircraft had turned to the south and they lost radar contact with him."

It was 10:06 a.m.

Fritz and Hull studied the horizon to the south. They couldn't see a thing.


So why would the FAA call Johnstown ATC from the direct line at Cleveland's airport to tell them Flight 93 was heading towards them from the south?


Do you realize the possible significance of this???

After the WTCs were hit, there were only two other hijacked aircraft left in the sky. However, the FAA provided misinformation on the location of BOTH Flight 77 and Flight 93. And, the FAA ordered ATCs out of the only towers that could have tracked the real location of Flight 93.

Plus, HOW could the FAA have mistakenly believed that Flight 93 was south, heading north towards Johnstown, and mistankely believed that Flight 11 never hit WTC1, and was heading south towards Washington?

Identifying the location and bearings of hijacked airliners isn't something that the FAA would just guess at, especially when their entire purpose for indentifying the location would be to help direct NEADS where to send the fighters.

And what's worse, why didn't the 9/11 Commission bother to investigate how and why the FAA provided the misinformation? Somebody is covering something up -it's just a question of what is being covered up.



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 11:46 AM
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More on Johnstown Airport

Here's something I never saw before. This is from a Pittsburgh Post-Gazette story on Sept. 12, 2001:

www.post-gazette.com...



At the John P. Murtha Johnstown-Cambria County Airport near Johnstown, a call from air traffic controllers in Cleveland set off 10 minutes of high tension before the plane crashed 14 miles southeast of the airport.

Dennis Fritz, the air traffic manager, got a call from controllers in Cleveland warning the Johnstown airport -- which has no radar of its own -- that a large aircraft was 20 miles south and had suddenly turned on a heading for Johnstown.

"It was an aircraft doing some unusual maneuvers at a low level, which is unusual for an aircraft that size," Fritz said last night. "It happened so quickly."

He said workers in his own tower scanned south, toward the horizon, with binoculars, but couldn't see any aircraft, leading Fritz to believe that the plane was flying somewhere in the 2,800 foot high ridges in that part of the Allegheny front.

Then, somewhere within the air zone, about 15 miles south of Johnstown, the plane turned again toward the south.


There are three important details in this story:

1) The timing is narrowed down as to when Johnstown ACT was told to evacuate, roughly "10 minutes" before the crash. This would put the time at almost the exact time that the Pittsburgh ATC was told to evacuate, at 9:49 am.

2) This report specifically says that the aircraft turned from the south to head north towards Johnstown from 20 miles away. This would put Flight 93 almost directly above Shanksville at 9:49 am, 14 minutes before the crash.


3) This report says that Flight 93 turned again, this time towards the south, when it was 15 miles south of Johnstown.

But this doesn't make sense. A car going 60 miles an hour goes 5 miles in 5 minutes. A jet going 500 mph would go 40 miles in 5 minutes, not 5 miles.

So if we believe the official flight path, at 9:49 am, Flight 93 should have been 14 minutes from Shanksville, or about 116 miles away, which would put it near the Pittsburgh Airport, which had just been ordered to be evacuated at 9:49 am. But the Pittsbrugh Airport is north of Johnstown, not south.

Flight 93 could not be in two places at once, could it?

But there's more... Check this out....

From the same article:



Shortly before it went down, another call was made to the Westmoreland County 911 center from a Mount Pleasant Township resident who said he could see a large plane flying low and banking from side to side.


(Also note that it was this same Westmoreland County 911 center that received the call from the passenger in the bathroom of Flight 93 that reported that he saw smoke in the plane. )

Now look at a map of the area around Shanksville. Mt. Pleasant is South West of Johnstown.

maps.google.com...

If somebody in Mt. Pleasant saw the plane it would corroborate the report that the plane actually WAS SOUTH of Johnstown. Of course this would also conflict with the "official" report that Flight 93 was coming in over Johnstown from the NW.

Interestingly, the Pittsburgh Airport is located adjacent to a large Air National Guard base, and the crash site at Shanksville is located a few miles from a National Guard Armory. And of course, don't forget that the C-130H was a National Guard plane.

And here's one more interesting detail about the Johnstown airport from this same story:




Joseph McKelvey, executive director of the Johnstown-area airport, said he didn't know whether it would be an operations headquarters or serve as a morgue.

But as he spoke, one of the few planes in the skies over America, a United Airlines 727 arrived carrying what McKelvey said was equipment for the recovery, and a half dozen rental trucks pulled into the airport to carry the equipment to the crash scene.

"This is the one airport [in the region] that can handle about any aircraft in the world," McKelvey said. Normally, the Johnstown airport handles five commercial passenger flights a day.

Last night police and National Guard sealed off the airport to regular traffic, at one point shutting down state Route 219 a four-lane highway that is only 500 yards from airport property. It was later reopened, but access roads to the airport remained sealed.


So we also learn that the Johnstown Airport can handle any aircraft in the world, and that the National Guard not only sealed off the airport, they actually shut down the state highway that leads to the airport, which is about 30 miles away from the crash site. Why?

And why would the Johnstown airport be built to handle any type of aircraft in the world? Johnstown is a small town in the middle of nowhere. Is it really a military airport maybe?



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 05:53 PM
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Holy cow, that's the meat n potatoes there. That's what I'm talkin 'bout.

Now it's a bit off subject, but I juatremembered an old discredited report from 9/11 regarding Flight 11 that may tie back in with the phantom flight reports.

FFA memo: relayed by a flight attendant “a passenger located in seat 10B shot and killed a passenger in seat 9B at 9:20 am. The passenger killed was Daniel Lewin, shot by passenger Satam Alsuqami.” Alsuqami was one of the hijackers, Lewin an Israeli-American, co-founder and chief technology officer of Akamai technologies, and a former member of IDF, Sayeret Matkal, a counter-terrorism unit, whose Unit 269 specializes in counter-terrorism activities outside of Israel. How did a hijacker - with a gun - ind up seated behind Lewin - and then decide to shoot him and only him? This memo was released as a first draft, but never released in final form, as it had by then become “protected information,” and the final FAA record reflects no gunshots fired anywhere that day. Worldnet has an article about this: www.worldnetdaily.com...
Main thing is the time: 9:20 am. Like the gun on board (later changed to a knife, Lewin's throat slit) the time is taken as a typo. Everyone knows Flight 11 was long gone by 9:20. Must've meant 8:20. Hmmm...



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 01:53 AM
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Originally posted by Caustic Logic
Like the gun on board (later changed to a knife, Lewin's throat slit) the time is taken as a typo. Everyone knows Flight 11 was long gone by 9:20. Must've meant 8:20. Hmmm...


Wow.... this is getting more interesting all the time. We have reports of Flight 11 south of NY after two planes hit WTC1 and WTC2, and the time is corroborated by this memo? No, this isn't off the subject at all.

This means at least 3 of the 4 flights have serious problems re the FAA keeping track of them.

BTW, didn't one of the flights switch transponder signals instead of just turn the transponder off? Was it 175?



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 06:41 AM
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I still think that Port Authority that happened to be there that morning should have carried the reigns they were given.
The mis-handling of information is phenomenal. Look, rather try to, at the transcripts of the dialogue between several Air Control Towers and the pilots of the plane that hit the 2nded tower.



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 09:43 AM
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Originally posted by bothered
Look, rather try to, at the transcripts of the dialogue between several Air Control Towers and the pilots of the plane that hit the 2nded tower.


I just read the transcripts. So what? What's in the transcript that you think is important??



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 10:02 AM
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The conversation.
to avoid a one line post, most would assume that, since the terrorist had control of the plane, the conversation was with the terrorist.



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by bothered
The conversation.
to avoid a one line post, most would assume that, since the terrorist had control of the plane, the conversation was with the terrorist.


I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Sorry if I'm being dense.

What specific conversation with the terrorist are you referring to?



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 01:17 PM
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That would be the second set, where there was a lull after the first strike. They attempted some form of declined mediation, and I believe an F-16s radio call could be heard intermixed.

It's hard to say, what with the smoke screen of the 9.11 commission, which was funded to provide resources for funding.



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 02:23 PM
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Possibly interesting, Bothered. I'm not sure.. is that in ref. to a link on this thread? I probably missed something. Clue me in on where to hear that and I'd be glad to check it out. Mediation w.hijackers? That'd be new to me and interesting.
As for transponders, it is 175 that shut off briefly and then took up a different signal. Not sure of the effects of this... I think it's been classed as invisible as Flight 11 - transponder unreadable or whateverand effectively visible only as a primary radar blip.


This is my air defense chart. Sometimes useful. Hope it comes thru right.
Note: I had put this together based on the fighters'targets being what they logically should have been - Flight 175 for Otis, and 77 for Langley. But both were only ever informed of FLight 11, which was already gone before either set ever took off! So Otis' notification of "target," on reaching Manhattan looking only for Flight 11, was that both 11 AND 175 had already crashed. Langley's notification of Flight 77, if it EVER came, was after seeing smoke @ the Pentagon on their way to intercept 11.






[edit on 18-2-2007 by Caustic Logic]



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by Caustic Logic
Possibly interesting, Bothered. I'm not sure.. is that in ref. to a link on this thread? I probably missed something. Clue me in on where to hear that and I'd be glad to check it out. Mediation w.hijackers? That'd be new to me and interesting.
As for transponders, it is 175 that shut off briefly and then took up a different signal. Not sure of the effects of this... I think it's been classed as invisible as Flight 11 - transponder unreadable or whateverand effectively visible only as a primary radar blip.


This is my air defense chart. Sometimes useful. Hope it comes thru right.
Note: I had put this together based on the fighters'targets being what they logically should have been - Flight 175 for Otis, and 77 for Langley. But both were only ever informed of FLight 11, which was already gone before either set ever took off! So Otis' notification of "target," on reaching Manhattan looking only for Flight 11, was that both 11 AND 175 had already crashed. Langley's notification of Flight 77, if it EVER came, was after seeing smoke @ the Pentagon on their way to intercept 11.






[edit on 18-2-2007 by Caustic Logic]


This is an awesome visual! Thanks! You should have been working for the 9/11 Commission!

There's a lot that jumps out from this graphic... I'm not sure where to start...

How about with this:

Flight 175's transponder goes off, then back on, just after Flight 77 is "lost" from radar, and well before "even Bush knows" it's a terrorist attack. So with 11 and 175 already crashed, how in the world could 77 be lost from radar for so long? At that point, 77 was the only plane left to worry about.

The other thing that stands out is that both sets of fighters weren't informed of targets until after the targets crashed. On of course, no fighters were informed about Flight 93, but the ATC towers in Pittsburgh and Johnstown were told to evacuate.

Heck, with this type of response, Castro didn't need missiles -he could have just sent in a few slow flying bombers with their transponders turned off.



posted on Mar, 6 2007 @ 05:23 PM
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Bump from page four! Just got the second post and a masterlist up at They Let it Happen. A bit slow, but many projects. I'm calling the masterlist "Fedearl Attack Assistance?"

they-let-it-happen.blogspot.com... ttack-assistance-masterlist.html

Nothing new really... same stuff as in this thread mostly, but the 9:20 memo is explained better.



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