Is Randi's cash offering a fraud???

Check out this article I've found recently. It's a letter from Sean (aka Peebrain) from Psipog who is claiming to have had e-mail contact with James Randi and his assistant. In which they were acting rude to him in the e-mails and twisting their own words after publishing them in public. according to Sean, they've even fabricated an e-mail and claimed it came from him.

The whole debacle came from their unwillingness to answer a simple question of his. Where the $1 million is located, and how can a person get it if he wins the challenge.

Since the prize money is in the form of bonds, then it is possible that the bonds are worthless. For example, maybe a lot of the bonds are from corporations that are on the verge of going bankrupt? Or maybe the corporations don't have to pay off the bonds for another 40 years? In our example, Bob had to pay everything back in 24 months... this is called the "maturity" of the bond. Some bonds don't mature for a few years, others don't mature for a few decades. If Randi awards the prize of a bond that doesn't mature for 40 years, then legally I do have a million dollars... but I can't USE the million dollars until the bonds mature! As you can see, there are a lot of different scenarios where the bonds could be LEGALLY worth a million dollars, but in reality they could be worthless.

So my original assumption was right after all. The prize is the bonds. And my questions have still gone unanswered. What is there to say? Well, the most obvious thing I've learned from this is that Kramer certainly isn't trustworthy. He edited the e-mails, and told everyone the prize was in cash. And no one knows where the false e-mail came from (and Kramer hasn't provided anyone with information that could help us figure it out). At the time of writing this, he hasn't addressed the original issues which sparked this entire fiasco (who issued the bonds, what are the interest rates, and when are the maturity dates?). And he hasn't addressed the issue of misleading EVERYONE on the forums, by stating that the prize is cash.

While the members of the forums show different levels of skepticism, Kramer certainly does not show anything relating to real skepticism. His mentality is that of a fundamentalist - he is right, everyone else is wrong, and it's ok to "bend" the truth to convince others. This is the exact opposite of healthy skepticism. If you are seriously considering taking the James Randi $1 Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge, it would be very naive to think it's as clear cut and simple as they portray it. When you put your signature on that application, you are signing a contract with them. If they have a hard time playing fair when it's just a few e-mails, imagine how they'll act when a million dollars is on the line (assuming that the bonds are actually worth anything to begin with, of course ). -

Forgot to post the link..

www.skepticalinvestigations.org...

Yeah, I remember that. When I heard about this, and read the article, I was disgusted.

But that's just because I find Sean trustworthy. You can make your own opinion about Sean's trustworthiness, and if you think he isn't trustworthy you don't have to believe that he's telling the truth here.

However, I do. Such behavior isn't fitting for Kramer as an adult, though its all I've come to expect from people like that.

Believe me I find Sean more trustworthy than Randi or Kramer. After all the stuff I've read about them... They're not real skeptics and never where, they're as dogmatic as Pat Robertson.

Originally posted by TheBandit795
Believe me I find Sean more trustworthy than Randi or Kramer. After all the stuff I've read about them... They're not real skeptics and never where, they're as dogmatic as Pat Robertson.

I posted this about randi's prize on another thread here on ATS.

Originally posted by Sparky63
Anyone that can prove that they exhibit paranormal abilities stands to receive 1 million dollars.

www.randi.org...

The challenge started in 1964 with Randi putting up $1,000 of his own money. Since then, the prize money has grown to the current $1,000,000.

To date, no one has ever passed the preliminary tests.

Many will scoff at this and say that they do not use their abilities for personal finacial gains, but the reality is quite the opposite.
Those who have reached celebrity status because of their claims have reaped large financial rewards.

Randi's challenge is bogus....he decides who will be tested and who will not. He has refused people in the past.
There is no scientific objectivity to the test.

If you read the actual language of randi's requirement to win the challenge he has the ultimate out clause.
All he has to do is not agree with the testing procedure and he would do this if the claimant was legit and therefore the test would never be conducted.


[edit on 9-2-2007 by TheBandit795]

Yep I know...

I've posted earlier threads showing his challenge to be nonsense.

Yellow Bamboo and the James Randi challenge

Faults with the James Randi Challenge...

I really hope that the scientific community (and the mainstream media) doesn't keep on getting fooled by Randi anymore.

[edit on 9-2-2007 by TheBandit795]

the randi challenge is there just to find people in the public that think they are psychic. whether he does it for the government or not, this is the reason.

government can monitor and test people remotely and do not ever need to speak to you, but they need to find these people, and this is a way to find them. anyone who goes for the challenge must think he or she is good enough for it.

stay aay, and if you have any abilities at all never disclose these things, to others, you never know who you are talking to.

the governments really are looking for these people. just say if someone could some of the things in a small way that is descibed in this board and else where, they may be a threat. governments want total control, and if you are someone likely to go for this prize, stay away, do not draw attention to yourself at all.

my 2 cents

If randi wanted to conduct a real unbiased challenge he would do it like this one.

The challenge' refers to the offer of one million American dollars. The 'offeror' refers to Victor Zammit who is making the challenge. 'The Committee' refers to a group of people expert in afterlife evidence. The 'afterlife evidence' refers to the evidence mentioned above in the Preface. 'Applicant' refers to a person applying to meet 'the challenge.' Stage One refers to the first stage of the challenge where the applicant explains in clear terms how the applicant is intending to rebut the evidence. Stage Two, is the stage where the applicant (as in the skeptics' offer) becomes the claimant and clearly explains in the English language in academically acceptable format his rebuttal of the evidence.

www.victorzammit.com...

It is my understanding that randi has refused to take this challenge.

I've decided to bump this thread since some are invoking the name of Randi on another thread.

Yep, Randi is an absolute crock. No independently verifiable testing, no objective definition of what "paranormal" means, no hard evidence that the million dollars even exists.

I know Sean from way back. He is extremely trustworthy.

Twenty years ago (back when I was an athiest), I subscribed to the Sceptical Enquirer. I remember other materialists complaining about Randi--that his book debunking the paranormal contained inside jokes and puns that they felt discredited his book as a reliable academic source. If I remember correctly, it had journal entried for "fnord" and various illuminatti jokes, etc, as if the items from fiction were real. Oh yeah, it had a bogus entry on the Necronomicon as well, that Dan Chlore quotes on his necronomicon website. Chlore also felt that Randi would confuse neophytes with his stupid jokes, and only grow the necronomiconic mythos in an unhealthy way.

If I had dangerous brain powers . . .

a) I can think of a lot of ways to make some serious bank, and it has nothing to do with pleasing the amazing Randy. As in millions, plural. It would not ever make the newspapers; just the balance sheets of various banks, as they struggle to explain all the ATM malfunctions.

b) I wouldn't be sharing the grail of psionics with people who show no more emotional maturity than someone like him. I think if you were legitimate, your life would literally be at stake, from debunkers who'd be ruined once you blew up in the media. They'd only be famous for 15 minutes. Then everyone would be out to buy your "how to" book, and not one of Randi's, which would now be worthless.

c) I think I'd just drive him crazy. Hide his car keys, magically make his TV remote disappear. Nothing he would admit to anyone, for fear of ruining his reputation. It'd kill him, wondering what poultergheist he'd hacked off.

d). I wouldn't be posting here, either. I'd be living friday nights in a box at the finish line of my local horse track, making a rep as the best handicapper in the new millenium.

.

I always wondered how a non-scientist could pretend being a scientist without academic papers to back it up. No one caught on to that one for years. So even if you were tested positive it wouldn't get accepted by the scientific community. Not to mention the many articles about "paranormal" people who went to do the test and how Randy built in so many rules that there was no way to succeed in the first place.

No...if you want to proof you have a gift...then go see a true scientist.

James Randi is a failed old stage magician, who could not keep up with the times and so made a name for himself by trying to assume the role of Professional Debunker for the World!! He makes totally unrealistic demands and no one could ever satisfy him, as that would put him out of business forever and fast.

Criss Angel could take that money any day of the week, so could David Blain and Cyril Takayama and Derren Brown, probably. But, performers stick together, as seen by the friendship Criss has with Banachek, another type of kreskin mentalist who does stage shows.

The people who go out in the streets, without props, and do feats that defy known physics are among the few humans that are using elements that most are unaware of. Randi is a promoter, mostly of himself, and he has done WHAT for the past 30 years? NOTHING!!. He had done nothing but alienated himself from any serious researchers, and is lucky that he has a few pals in the show business side of the illusion game, or he would be flipping burgers for a living.

Randi is a relic; like Gorgeous George, the wrestler from the 50's, he had a flash in the pan and is now remembered NOT for what HE did, but for flitting around the edges of true artists nipping at their heels like a terrier at the hooves of a horse. never making a dent but a distraction at best. I feel sorry for him, in a way; to be unable to compete with your peers on stage must be humiliating enough, then to have knowing people dismiss you as irrelevant is a further blow to his already oversized ego.

Randi should be ignored, and he soon will be relegated to the annals of stage magic as a side note, a sad commentary on a man who never made it big, and was instead content to merely be loud.

I think Randi, and Penn and Teller, have done the developing world a service by debunking some medical scam artists. The ones who promised to "remove cancers without surgery," etc. For a while, Randi spent time in South America and the Philippines (as did P & T) demonstrating the "gypsy switch" and various other cons.

That's totally different from attacking anyone who is not a materialist, and who believes paranormal events are at least possible. Or, for that matter, promoting yourself as the final authority on the subject. Appeals to authority are . . . . unscientific. And that's where Randi has gotten to.

Ive suspected for a long time the reward was a trap. they would probably drug then trauma based mind control any powerful person that contacted them and turn them into another toy soldier. if you have any real power id stay very far away from this reward just to be safe

Here's another nail in the coffin that is housing Randi's credibility:

www.alternativescience.com...

I've always been a bit of a natural skeptic when it comes to an individual's claims of psychic abilities, but that being said Randi always comes off as a huge a-hole to me. I saw him on Larry King a while back, and he was just an angry dude.

While skeptic, I do have a very open mind. I've witnessed paranormal events personally (I saw a ghost in my childhood). Randi obviously has an agenda, and just seems like an abrasive person. Seems like the sort of dude who, even when presented with a multitude of facts, would never change his views on a subject.