Ancient Visitors to the Americas

the other big mistake fans of hyper diffusion make is claiming that quetzlcoatl arrived from the west on a boat when in fact it is claimed he left heading east on a raft of snakes
but hey
the truth doesnt matter to most of these people so they arent actually aware of it

Originally posted by Marduk
the other big mistake fans of hyper diffusion make is claiming that quetzlcoatl arrived from the west on a boat when in fact it is claimed he left heading east on a raft of snakes
but hey
the truth doesnt matter to most of these people so they arent actually aware of it

That's correct! I see you have learned well under the instruction of Mr. Hancock!

Excellent, Marduk. Excellent!

Now you may begin working with Dr. Cabrera and his Ica Stones!

Hehe.

[edit on 2/15/2007 by Horrificus]

What you doubt my theory? It WAS channeled to me through remote viewing techniques by the elders of Procyon. The governments of the world are all in on keeping this information withheld. They don't want us to be free.

Did you know that queztecotl and jesus were friends. Yes they were. Got that from my channeled sources too. If you don't like my contributions to this thread than fine. Some people here know I'm telling the truth.

Honestly it's possible for people way back in time to have accidently gotten all the way over to the new world and talk to the natives. If anything ever came out of it is a different speculation all together. But people adrift at sea, stuck in a trade current, and taken to a new continant is possible. Anything other than jesus and quezecotl being friends, and defeating the pleadians is pure fiction, and I'd advice you to not believe anybody else if they disagree.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Oh, for the love of... Every time I hear "the Aztecs worshipped white bearded gods ergo they were talking about Europeans because Native Americans can't grow facial hair", I want to yank my own hair out of my chin.

Yes, Natives darn sure can grow facial hair. Many North American natives plucked their faces bald, however. This would damage the folicles, preventing any new growth, thus the miscinception that htey never could grow facial ahir. Now it's true that Natives tend to have less and finer facial hair than other ethnicities, but it's there, it's clear, and claiming otherwise is silly.

Now secondly... I don't know who this "White, bearded god" of Central American myth is. Most often I see it attributed to Quetzalcoatl, though, who is supposed to be "bearded old man in the sky" according to these sources. Very often, these claims are paired with Quetzalcoatal being the central figure of Aztec myth, and generally claim that he was crucified, too.

Bull.

Quetzalcoatl is an old, old, old god, but is not the central deity in the Aztec pantheon. That title goes to Huitzilopochli, sun-god and war-god. There is absolutely nothing about Quetzalcoatal being nailed to anything. Finally, and very importantly... there are absolutely no depictions of Quetzalcoatal being a bearded white man from period depictions. Syncretic movements have merged Christianity with the Nautal religion, equating Jesus with Quetzalcoatl in the same way Santaria equates Christian saints with the loa. This syncretism is almost certainly where this notion came from.

Along with, of course, the transcripts of conquest-minded white guys who naturally wrote home about the dumbassed natives who revered them as gods and "gave" them all this treasure. History is written by the victors, and the Spanish turned themselves into gods a a method of further suppressing a beaten people

Another thing. The claims that Native Americans needed "help" to build what they built. Why is that? Little brown savages can't do anything without the guiding white (or grey...?) hand of someone from Far Far Away? Is it simply so inconceivable that manpower can make up for a lack of technology? Not in the least. If you get enough people working on a project for long enough, you'd be amazed what you can do. Truely the belief that our collective ancestors were all a bunch of dithering idiots who needed a bunch of enlightened aliens (terrestrial or otherwise) to come down and show them How It Works is highly insulting to our species as a whole.

As for the topic at hand? Did other people come to the Americas? Well there's evidence of Caucasoid (think Aborigine or Ainu, not Irish) peoples coming to America during the Ice Age. After that, there's the Vikings at Vinland. There's some hazy evidence backing up Polynisian contact along the west coast, as well - primarily the use of plank boats and some physical features of those tribes.

Smallpeeps,

Take a look at those "artifacts". Isn't it odd how totally random they are? To presume they're authentic, one must presume that Egyptians came all the way from Egypt to Central America, to etch nonsense into irregular terracotta disks and stash them in a cave, then vanish without a trace. If one compares those items to actual Egyptian art, what they actually are becomes pretty clear - they're some rube's idea of what Egyptian art and heiroglyphs look like. It's just random garbage scrawled on rocks then soaked in mud for a few weeks for a patina.

Hey! We Europeans ARE Gods!

Kidding.

Seriously though, it is very interesting. Whoever Viracocha was, he had interesting features and feats, and a lot of influence.

Any "Intelligent" theories out there?

Whoever Viracocha was, he had interesting features and feats, and a lot of influence.

he was the creator God if the Incas



can't see his feats in this image of him though
bad luck
you think maybe he was wearing clown shoes ?

Originally posted by BASSPLYRHonestly it's possible for people way back in time to have accidently gotten all the way over to the new world and talk to the natives.

Extremely unlikely. The boats back then were very primitive, and not likely to survive a sea voyage of 3 months -- IF you have a sail. The North Equitorial Current tangles with several other currents, so just hitting a current wouldn't guarantee your going across the ocean. Going back would be even trickier.

Take a look at the currents yourself. You'll see what I mean:
www.onr.navy.mil...

The presence of half a dozen (or fewer) half-starved men who speak an alien language and can't understand your language is not likely to be met with happy expressions of kinship and trade.

There are other negative indications:
In areas where there's an active trade, you have pidgin or creole languages arising (there are no South American or American terms of ancient origin in Egyptian/Greek/Roma/etc languages.) You also have the presence of goods in the major ports (there's no South American items in major port cities in ancient Europe).

Cotton was grown on both sides of the Atlantic, but the plants are of different genuses. So it was not brought from one continent to the other by humans within the past several thousand years:
en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Byrd

The presence of half a dozen (or fewer) half-starved men who speak an alien language and can't understand your language is not likely to be met with happy expressions of kinship and trade.

This is just it. You guys cant seem to grasp the concept. We are talking of ancient visitors to the New World. They dont have to have started a new civilization. They were visitors to the Americas, either accidentally or purposefully.

Are you, in fact, saying that during the past 2000yrs(or longer) it is impossible for anyone to have reached the Americas before Columbus, if you can prove this to me i will bow down and kiss your.......

Has anyone read the title of this thread!!!!!!

Seriously, it has already been shown that it is possible and proven that there have been visitors to the Americas before Columbus.

Where is the argument..

I believe King Solomon was coming here for his gold. It was a three year round trip. Easily done by the Sumerian admirals of the day who were allies of King Solomon. The gold was hidden inside Victorio Peak in New Mexico until enough was stockpiled to make the journey.

Victorio Peak Treasure

Originally posted by groingrinder
I believe King Solomon was coming here for his gold. It was a three year round trip. Easily done by the Sumerian admirals of the day who were allies of King Solomon. The gold was hidden inside Victorio Peak in New Mexico until enough was stockpiled to make the journey.

Victorio Peak Treasure

Unless King Solomon was alive within the last three centuries, that's extremely unlikely. That gold is Mexican booty Documents from 1797 were found in the stash, as well as letters dating from 1880. Chances are fair to good that that wealth is the lost riches of emperor Maxmillian.

Victorio Peak - new Mexico Treasure Hunting

[edit on 16-2-2007 by TheWalkingFox]

There is an overlooked culture and that would be the Polynesians. They
are arguably some of the best seafarers on earth, able to navigate by memorizing currents, temperature, wave patterns, etc...and traverse the pacific.

Trade between asia and Central / South america could have been possible, though proof would have rotted away or have been buried long ago. fascinating thread though.

posted by Groingrinder
I believe King Solomon was coming here for his gold. It was a three year round trip. Easily done by the Sumerian admirals of the day who were allies of King Solomon. The gold was hidden inside Victorio Peak in New Mexico until enough was stockpiled to make the journey.

King Solomon was born around 1000bce
the Sumerian civilisation collapsed around 2500bce

Originally posted by el fuego


There is an overlooked culture and that would be the Polynesians. They
are arguably some of the best seafarers on earth, able to navigate by memorizing currents, temperature, wave patterns, etc...and traverse the pacific.

Trade between asia and Central / South america could have been possible, though proof would have rotted away or have been buried long ago. fascinating thread though.

I personally believe there was at least rudimentary Pacific-American contacts, primarily in the subarctic areas.The Alaskan natives definately engaged in at least sporiadic trade with their Siberian counterparts, and had copper utensils when "discovered" by the Russians - but no smelting technology. The cultural similarities between the Athabascan peoples and cultures on the north pacific rim of Asia, even several thousand years removed, seems to indicate at least some back and forth between the two after being separated.

As for the polynesians, well, these folks managed to reach Rapa Nui by feeling wave backflows with their feet. I'm fairly certain that if they could pull that off, then they could manage to happen across either North or South America in their travels. Whether these explorers made it back to their original islands to collect a colonisation party is another matter altogether. The plank boats used by the Chumas were very similar to the boats used by polynesians. However no Native American group I've heard of had a catamaran design, so this idea is a little shaky, as well.

Originally posted by Marduk
you're actual knowledge of these subjects is a bit horrificus if you ask me buddy

first of all if a ship was at sea during rough weather during a bad season they could end up anywhere
but expecting them to end up in a straight line at least 3000 miles from where they started is a bit if a stretch to say the least

now you may think that there are all kinds of structures that have vague similarities with things overseas and you'd be right
but a vague similarity is not proof of anything except a vague similarity

Graham Hancocks Fingerpaints of the Gods is one of the biggest collections of trash and fabrication to be found anywhere
in many cases he gets facts completely wrong and in many others either omits data that disproves his theory or completely fabricates evidence to fit it
the BBC Horizon program did a special on the work of graham hancock
it wasn't complimentary
Graham Immediately complained about it to the BSC and an adjudication panel from the Broadcasting Standards Commission rendered the following verdict

The programme had created the impression that he was an intellectual fraudster who had put forward half baked theories and ideas in bad faith, and that he was incompetent to defend his own arguments.
Adjudication: [The Commission] finds no unfairness to Mr Hancock in these matters.

so he is an intellectual fraudster who is incompetant to comment on the facts that he writes down in his books which is then marketed to gullible people who if anything know less about the subjects contained theirein than he does

and finally
the Olmec culture has been dna typed
no african dna was present

DISINFORMATION?

nope
its the truth
why don't you check it out for yourself if you're actually interested in reality and not something thats been formed in your imagination without looking at the facts

www.transitofvenus.auckland.ac.nz...


Although not definitive, there are good points here. We know that polynesians built large double hulled ocean canoes, and their war canoes were tough enough to withstand beatings of the ocean.

We can cross the Pacific in 30 foot sloop rigged monohull, then the polynesians could have crossed into South America...hopefully there will be more research accomplished in the area.

I am unsure about the romans and the greeks reaching the americas,the egyptions did.its a well known fact that mummies that are in various museums around the world have traces of coffee and coc aine in their hair.this was first found out at the manchester museum,uk.the highly respected doctor who discovered this was ridiculed,until,that is,other museums did the same tests and ended up with the same results.traces of substances that could of only come from the americas.which means there must have been some kind of trade between these two places,after all,isn't it part of mans nature to explore,to got beyond?
there are also lots of similarities of ancient beliefs that spread through every continent,so many in fact that it can't just be coincidence....
we know that the vikings and other northern ppl went to canada and america 100's of years before they were "discovered".
in britain pottery has been found from carthage,phonecia and egypt,from a time when we were supposedly not even on the map.
in ireland there is a great "tomb" dating back thousands of years,its walls are built with limestone that has been traced back to egypt.
another interesting fact,in alaska the eskimos use a type of reed riverboat that is built in exactly the same way as reed riverboats from ancient egypt.
the romans never supposedly reached china,yet there is evidence that small groups of them did by travelling along what became known as the silk road.

when it comes to ancient civilisations travelling across the atlantic the academics put these highly intelligent ppl down and never give a proper argument.they just say that they didn't have the boats for it.yet i have seen ppl on tv over the years who have rowed across the ocean in a small boat.if they could do it,why not ppl thousands of years ago in sale ships?

to me,history should not have hard and fast rules.new things are always being discovered,sometimes making us question the evidence we already have.unfortunatly most academics don't see it this way.why? mainly beccause they have made a reputation and lots of money on their findings.instead of saying,well,this is what i thought at the time,coz i went off the evidence at hand.they refuse point blank to accept anything that may make them question themselves....

oh,i'd also like to point out another great journey that the academics would call impossible if it was discovered to have happened 1000's of years ago....captain bligh,of the bounty, was thrown off his ship into a rowing boat with a handful of the crew still loyal to him.he then navigated his ship from tahiti to timor indonesia.he covered 3618 nautical miles in 41 days in nothing more than a row boat!! i'm sure journeys of the impossible,over land and sea,are nothing new.

Jakyll,

Coffee grows naturally in Africa and Asia, and was introduced to the Americas by colonials.

Cocaine and nicotine have been found on mummies because the guys who pulled them out of their tombs did so for profit, not science, and had no problem with smoking over the mummy or snorting a spoonful.

The Carthagenian pottery in england is more than likely from that pottery being traded and re-traded until it ended up in Britain. Sort of like how you occasionally get a foreign coin in your change after buying something.

Native Alaskans did not use reed boats, perhaps because reeds don't grow in Alaska. Rather they used dugouts, birch-bark, or kayaks. The people who live around Lake Titicaca do use reed boats, but if any Native / Egyptian tech transfers happened, it was these people who taught the Egyptians - they've been doing it longer.

Originally posted by jakyll
its a well known fact that mummies that are in various museums around the world have traces of coffee and coc aine in their hair.

I think you mistake coffee for tobacco. Was mentioned earlier on this thread.

[edit on 26-2-2007 by khunmoon]

ah,yes,my apologies.i was thinking of tabacco when i mentioned coffee,not sure why i got them mixed up,lol....coc aine and tabacco,like coffee have different strains.the coc aine and tabbaccoo samples found in the mummies mentioned are traced back to the americas,not to africa or asia....it the thieves smoked over the remains of mummies,its highly unlikely that high amounts would be found in their hair.it would be found in the rappings,but no deeper.
the pottery could of course be nothing more than hand me downs,but the british isles is mentioned in ancient egyption history.we were known as the Tin Isles,which are even mentioned in greek history and roman history,long before the roman invasion of this fabulous island


p.s.reeds grow along alaskan rivers in the summertime.you should compare the pictures of the boats i've mentioned;eskimo & egyption.even a drunk would say they were the same....