Ancient Visitors to the Americas

The Hebrew version means"I drew him out", and the Egyptian version means "Born of" just like I said. Your quote does not disagree with what I said. I really can't believe you wasted the time to argue the point since it's not an effective distraction really.

...See how you work marduk? You claim Moses is fictional, then I say no, then you argue that point? Anything to get away from the fact that pan-atlantic travel has been proven possible. Why take these side routes? I'm just responding to your claim that Moses is fictional. Even if I trip up on a name or what have you, it changes nothing.


As usual, I have no idea what you are rambling about or how it proves your point, whatever that is.



Go ahead, since it will serve your purpose and keep us from discussing Thor Heyerdale anymor. Hold your breath observers! Marduk the magnificent is going to speak! ...No really I cannot wait for you to destroy my faith. Can I worship you after that happens?

I had a quick scan through this and seeing that there are no links decided not to bother reading it
I'm guessing that once again its full of your personal opinion none of which is relevant to the discussion at ahand

you were asked to provide links
but as you're incapable
go bother someone else with your cranky middle eastern religion and leave the facts to others better versed to be able to accept them
ok ?

Marduk,
Does links help you promote your skeptisism?
Is this the only argument you have got to reply?

Marduk is out
2 points to smallpeeps

Deal with it buddy, you are off

By the way, you both managed to spoil the topic. How people are suppose to read through it when they see no rational flow of the specific matter?

another personal attack and scoring by your mother
your starting to get repetative you know

Well, I still say that there is a strong possibility that people have been to the new land from the old world much longer before in time than we give them credit for.

A sealed bottle can float across the ocean with some predictability, so why not a trade current that we already know exists between the horn of africa and the central american/caribbian region, with the same ability to take lost or stranded boats a various sizes and shapes across the ocean, even if by accident, and shear luck?

I would like to hear about these symbols that resemble mediteranian art, or writting that are supposedly being found in the north america region. Maybe there is lost or undiscovered evidence of a exploration party from that region of the world visiting the americas.

Very likely, possible,... and why not...

because a sealed bottle doesnt need food and drinking water for more than 3 months
a sealed bottle can't sink in a storm
and a sealed bottle more than anything else would leave some evidence behind of its presence
the fact that you don't know that shows the depths of your understanding
besides which
hypothesising that a sealed bottle could make the journey still isn't proof that it has

havent bottles made it across the oceans before. i think they have. it shows though that ocean current CAN carry things all the way across the ocean from one continant to the other. Missed that point did ya. So a boat could float all the way across the ocean blindly.

Also, people have survived before being stranded at sea for more than the amount of time it would take someone to starve to death. Howed they survive. You underestimate the will to live when you don't want to die.

Personally I think that the ancient egyptians and minoans had anti gravity technology that they used to get around and travel from continant to continant. The mayans saw this and depicted it on their reliefs. They then got angry at their god's for not supplying them with these machines, and those gods went to the council of nibiru to file a greivance about the other gods who showed the humans in the east the technology. Then these two groups of gods went to war over weather they should have given the humans the machines or to denie them for eternity to keep us in our places. This neatly explains the disapearences of sodom and gamorah, and why moses wanted to leave the land of egypt. He needed to 'fix' the now desolated area of judea.

Then cause moses was away from egypt the area of egypt started to fall in disaray. The gods stopped giving the egyptians gold to build their kingdom with. So, Enki pleaded with enlil to allow these egyptians to leave their homeland and travel to the forbidden land across the great sea (egyptian name for the atlantic) to look for gold in what is now middle america (theres no gold there now cause it was mined by the egyptians to build solomans tomb as a favor to moses.) Which is why there are so many artifacts found near that region. They got forsaken by their gods by worshiping with the appalachian indians, which angered all the gods and the egyptians were lost over there. They wandered around heading west giving their knowledge to other natives in exchange for small items they needed to survive. Eventually they fought with the anazazi who had advanced molecular weapons given to them by ningezzida. A calamity erupted as the weapons were used in the anazazi/egyptian war

9/10 it would have been 10/10 but you forgot the pleaidean pyramid building aliens and their solar powered galactic cruisers

Well, in the intrerest of getting off the subject of Tetragrammaton and his Intergalactic Justice League of Super Hero Elohim, I must say here that genetic evidence cannot disprove that Native Americans are the descendants of anyone.

The four haplogroups Marduk mentions above are the most common mtDNA groups. Haplogroups A, B, C, and D are common throughout Europe, Africa, Asia and the Americas.

Recently, a fifth haplogroup "X" has been used to try to link Native Americans with supposedly European ancestors. This was because at the time that this theory developed, haplogroup X was only known in Europe. It was also concurrent with the development of the Soultrean hypothesis which attempts to link Soultrean points from neolithic France with Clovis points found in America. The idea is that the Soultrean points are the predecessors of the Clovis and thus the Clovis people came from Europe.

Unfortunately for this theory, this fifth "X" haplogroup has since been found in Siberia(The Presence of Mitochondrial Haplogroup X in Altaians from South Siberia, The American Society of Human Genetics, 2001,) and in a variant that is much more closely related to the haplogroup X found in about 3% of the Native American population. The rest of the Native Americans are haplogroup A,B,C or D. The haplogroup X subpopulation is exclusive to the tribes in the northern part of North America. At least that's how I recall it.

This would rule out the Hopi regarding the mtDNA link in any case. But the haplogroups A, B, C, and D make up the mtDNA haplogroups of the other 97% of the Native American population, and a greater percentage than that of the world population, so mtDNA, while it might be used to prove some ancestry, cannot be used to dis prove it. Like a paternity test used to be.

I know you already know all this 'Duk. You pointed me in the mtDNA direction once.

Harte

actually mtdna a,b,c,d, is only found east of the caucasus
the dna lineages that make up the ancient egyptians are only found west of the caucasus
so you can easily say that the Hopi have no connection with ancient egypt unless you want to go back about 60,000 years in which case ancient egypt didnt exist
so whatever way you want to look at it smallpeeps is wrong

As has been said and as has been proven by Thor Heyerdale, food swims underneath you, when you are in the ocean.

err right
that will be why he took provsions and fresh water for 4 months


www.shipsonstamps.org...

Hmmm 14 mths at sea without food and water, they couldnt possibly have survived



In hopes of returning this thread to the topic.........which is "Ancient visitors to the Americas" and the search for evidence to support this view.

The Phoenicians were known to have traded with India, are there similarities in sacrificial rites




Could the Phoenicians have kept the location of the New World from other cultures as insurance. They had been repeatedly invaded and taxed over hundreds of years, the sacking of Carthage by the Romans in the third Punic war around 146bc being the final straw and those that could, escaped to the New World and colonised an area around the Gulf of Mexico or further down to Brazil. Diodorus Seculus writes that the Phoenicians kept the secret of the New World to themselves as well as stating that the Phoenicians and Etruscans new of an enormous island outside the pillars of hercules, this is normally associated with Atlantis myths.

phoenician inscriptions allegedly found in Brazil




The La Fuente Magna is a bowl discovered in Bolivia containing writing of Sumerian or proto Sumerian cuneiform




Pictures of the bowl here


I do believe the Phoenicians, of any culture at the time, would have been capable of making it to the New World, however i only post this information for discussion as i am unable to verify its authenticity.

And to get this thread back on topic, damn Trolls, begone!!!


edit to tidy up grammer etc!!! my bad.
[edit on 14/2/07 by mojo4sale]

[edit on 14/2/07 by mojo4sale]

God man why do you make me post so much just to correct your posts? It's real work, you know? Yes they brought provisions, but as Heyerdale said, they found that light on the boat attracted so many fish that he realized his worries about food were unfounded.

Damn It! Damn It! Damn It!

The pleadians. I know I forgot something. It was nagging me too. THe pleadians helped build the pyramids but they were scared off by the annuaki. WHich wanted them off their turff to make way for more of enki's clan. THey were prepping for the third pyramid war, which never happened cause the pleadians had enough sense to get out of Marduk/Ra's way. Man was that guy violent. Marduk was planning on using the great fire cracker of ninurta, to attack the pleadians. The pleadians didn't want the business end of that fearsom weapon.

THe pleadians went over to the new world (north of the aztec empire) and created the kingdom of aztlan. Luckely the anazazi knew of some hopi who were willing to part with mystical inner secrets to defeating the death sheild of the pleadian craft, which were anathama to the anazazi. As long as the anazazi attacked the navajo afterwards (the hopi hate the navajo cause they jack all their ideas).

Well, we all know what happened next. THe pleadians defeated the anazazi but were then fearful of the wrath of the annunaki, so they hid. Fortunantly moses heard about the little pleadian escapade and he went to find them and defeat them. He parted the atlantic ocean to cross it. THe red sea was just a warm up. He found the pleadians and put some rightious ass whooping unto them, they fled and have hated the annunaki eversince. They can't really defeat them so they stage whisper campaigns behind their intergalactic back, and missinform us humans into who the real enemy is. Remember hitler loved aryans, pleadians are aryan, need I say more.

Pleadians= Evil. DOn't trust them. The pyramids were to be a more powerful version of the soul tower on the moon. They plan to enslave us ALL!!!!

Thanks for reminding me of those evil pleadians Marduk

PS while moses was in the americas kicking pleadian ass, he ran into jesus who was at the time teaching the lost tribes of the isrealites, who then went on to become mormons, but not after they themselves had to fight off the minions of satan (evil pleadian befreinding reptiods from tau epsilom) yes they have horns.

Why do you think the mormons have such elaborate vaults to secure their historical writings and that nobody is allowed to see them. Ever think about that? Also, the mormons were the ones who defeated xenu who was at one point jesus's right hand man, but like lucifer he fell into bad grace. Doubt me that mormons can fight? then you've never seen the historical biography called Orgazmo.

Now do you see why the govt. is keeping this from the public? Do you truley understand know? We can't handle the truth.

Thanks BASSPLYR for your truly useful contributions to this thread. I feel smarter already.


Anyway if anyone wants to read more about Glenn Kimball and his discoveries of egyptian themed artifacts under native mounds, here is the C2C link for his show appearances.

www.coasttocoastam.com...

Here are some of the artifacts he has found, more pics on the site. I am not a C2C member but I've heard some of his mp3s and this guy is amazing in his knowledge. I don't think these are all forgeries, but I am sure some will think so. In fact, they must.

more on Glenn Kimball here
www.robertghostwolf.com...
and here
www.truthbeknown.com...

At last, you link somethings, the truth.
Jesus, Buddha, Khrisna are all fakes.
Only Mohammed the truth.

Oh, for the love of... Every time I hear "the Aztecs worshipped white bearded gods ergo they were talking about Europeans because Native Americans can't grow facial hair", I want to yank my own hair out of my chin.

Yes, Natives darn sure can grow facial hair. Many North American natives plucked their faces bald, however. This would damage the folicles, preventing any new growth, thus the miscinception that htey never could grow facial ahir. Now it's true that Natives tend to have less and finer facial hair than other ethnicities, but it's there, it's clear, and claiming otherwise is silly.

Now secondly... I don't know who this "White, bearded god" of Central American myth is. Most often I see it attributed to Quetzalcoatl, though, who is supposed to be "bearded old man in the sky" according to these sources. Very often, these claims are paired with Quetzalcoatal being the central figure of Aztec myth, and generally claim that he was crucified, too.

Bull.

Quetzalcoatl is an old, old, old god, but is not the central deity in the Aztec pantheon. That title goes to Huitzilopochli, sun-god and war-god. There is absolutely nothing about Quetzalcoatal being nailed to anything. Finally, and very importantly... there are absolutely no depictions of Quetzalcoatal being a bearded white man from period depictions. Syncretic movements have merged Christianity with the Nautal religion, equating Jesus with Quetzalcoatl in the same way Santaria equates Christian saints with the loa. This syncretism is almost certainly where this notion came from.

Along with, of course, the transcripts of conquest-minded white guys who naturally wrote home about the dumbassed natives who revered them as gods and "gave" them all this treasure. History is written by the victors, and the Spanish turned themselves into gods a a method of further suppressing a beaten people

Another thing. The claims that Native Americans needed "help" to build what they built. Why is that? Little brown savages can't do anything without the guiding white (or grey...?) hand of someone from Far Far Away? Is it simply so inconceivable that manpower can make up for a lack of technology? Not in the least. If you get enough people working on a project for long enough, you'd be amazed what you can do. Truely the belief that our collective ancestors were all a bunch of dithering idiots who needed a bunch of enlightened aliens (terrestrial or otherwise) to come down and show them How It Works is highly insulting to our species as a whole.

As for the topic at hand? Did other people come to the Americas? Well there's evidence of Caucasoid (think Aborigine or Ainu, not Irish) peoples coming to America during the Ice Age. After that, there's the Vikings at Vinland. There's some hazy evidence backing up Polynisian contact along the west coast, as well - primarily the use of plank boats and some physical features of those tribes.

Smallpeeps,

Take a look at those "artifacts". Isn't it odd how totally random they are? To presume they're authentic, one must presume that Egyptians came all the way from Egypt to Central America, to etch nonsense into irregular terracotta disks and stash them in a cave, then vanish without a trace. If one compares those items to actual Egyptian art, what they actually are becomes pretty clear - they're some rube's idea of what Egyptian art and heiroglyphs look like. It's just random garbage scrawled on rocks then soaked in mud for a few weeks for a patina.