Can We Even Stop Global Warming?

Originally posted by zerotime
I do not believe we are affecting the weather at all.

On the other hand, I do believe we should be cutting our dependence on oil. At this point in history to not have cleaner burning energy like solar and wind power is crazy. We should not pollute the air, water or land. We do need to clean up our act for our own general health benefits.

We might not agree 100% on this issue, but we definately see eye to eye for the need to pollute less and find alternative sources of energy - at the same time living healthier lives. Hopefully most everyone will adopt this mindset regardless of their feelings about mankind altering the climate.

how a global warming the temprature at the poles at least think it is minus 70 at the worst highest temperature i think it will be minus 5 so the ice will not melted ---i think u must say a global ice age ---have u saw how many became dead from ice storms so i think it is a myth

Climate paper prompts calls to act

The report, by more than 2,000 top scientists, says world temperatures could increase by 3C by 2100.

Thats 2,000 people who's business it is to catalogue, record and analyse whats happening - and incidentally alot of those 2,000 people were offered $10,000 each by Exxon Mobile to shout the report down.

US contributors who "do not believe" in global warming also need to note this.

US Energy Secretary Sam Bodman said he accepted the conclusions of the scientists.

"We're very pleased with it. We're embracing it. We agree with it," he said.

"Human activity is contributing to changes in our Earth's climate and that issue is no longer up for debate."

And for those of you who will, no doubt, attempt to savage this post without reading the link I posted above, this is the last paragraph of the article

Now, the panel concluded that it was at least 90% certain that human emissions of greenhouse gases rather than natural variations are warming the planet's surface.

[edit on 3/0207/07 by neformore]

[edit on 3/0207/07 by neformore]

what i find interesting is the report is already 2 years out of date, and alot has happened in the 2 years it missed.

Originally posted by neformore
Thats 2,000 people who's business it is to catalogue, record and analyse whats happening - and incidentally alot of those 2,000 people were offered $10,000 each by Exxon Mobile to shout the report down.

There's another ATSNN thread here were this bribing attemp is mentioned.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Like big tabacco, big oil do this rutinely, it's legally not bribing but consultant assistence.

It has gone on for decades.

Global temerature will rise by 3C by 2100 and sea levels will increase by 18cm to 59cm, UN climate report predicts.

BBC news

I think some of you should really go read that report for themselves :
www.ipcc.ch...

It surely would help more the debate rather than spreading lies that it's all the sun's fault.
Here's a pic taken from it for the lazy ones :
What causes GW

In this picture you will see that the sun radiative forcing equals 0.12 compared to 1.6 for total net anthropogenic (human).

When all the lies are silenced, maybe we can start having a real discussion about it.

Now about the stuff we can do.

I am pretty much against the stupid ideas beeing forwarded by the current american administration (i.e. putting more aerosols into the atmosphere or building giant sun blocking panels in space). If they really had read the report they wouldn't be pushing for such moronic ideas like the one giving a "free ticket to corporations to pollute" or more taxes.
Taxes don't solve problems.

What we sould ask is for a push to forbid companies, businesses, shops opening on sundays for starters.
And if one day is not enough, maybe we should declare two days or more weekly "inactivity" to save the planet. And have some stuff close at night.
Enforce laws to restrict the use of cars in big cities.
Have our children learn how to be planet citizens instead of beeing "civil consumers"

What really needs to change is our "shareholder" view of economy allways asking for more and more benefits. As products have "life cycles", maybe it should be good at this point to put economy growth on hold in order to prepare for a more healthy push.

Originally posted by LogansRun
....................
I am interested to see how the nay sayers respond to this as there are still many skeptics out there who claim it is a natural warming. The only credible scientific reports to counter global warming seem to come from scientists on the payrolls of such corporations as Exxon and Shell.
...................

Would you actually care to back up such a claim that all people who doubt the whole "climate change is caused by man" are paid by Exxon, Shell or any other agency to claim this?...

First of all, not all people, and scientists, who don't agree with the theory that man is the cause for global warming, doubt that there is a climate change on the making....

An apple and a pear don't make two pears....

People, and scientists can believe and know that Climate Change is happening as we speak, and still believe that mankind is not the cause....

Second of all, there is much data to refute the idea that mankind is the cause of global warming. Take as an example borehole temperatures.

Worldwide borehole temperatures, temperatures taken from deep underground, have shown an increase in warming deep in the Earth's crust for the past 500 years, and it has increased sharply since the middle of the 1800s.

www.geo.lsa.umich.edu...

Here is the image form the above link.



It is kind of a coincidence, and I don't believe in coincidences but anyways, it is kind of a coincidence that the Earth's magnetic field had been relatively stable before "the middle of the 1800s", but has been weakening significantly since then.

Earth's Magnetic Field Is Fading
John Roach
for National Geographic News

September 9, 2004
Earth's magnetic field is fading. Today it is about 10 percent weaker than it was when German mathematician Carl Friedrich Gauss started keeping tabs on it in 1845, scientists say.

If the trend continues, the field may collapse altogether and then reverse. Compasses would point south instead of north.

news.nationalgeographic.com...

Kind of interesting that it is at this same time that we see a slow dramatic increase in global temperatures isn't it?....

To make it more interesting, the Sun itself has been going beserk, but this is another fact which for some reason escapes the "mankind is at fault" crowd.

www.space.com...

Now in contrast, the whole "mankind is the cause for global warming" claim, came about because of a little graph called the Hockey Stick Graph.

www.john-daly.com...

The graph above goes back to the year 1,000.

Here is another Hockey stick graph that doesn't go back that far.



Now....there are some things that is wrong with that graph and anyone who has done some serious research will realize it just by taking a look at the graph.

The first flaw is that the graph does not show the Medieval Warming period, the second flaw is that it doesn't show either the mini Ice age that followed despite the fact that there are mountain loads of data which have corroborated and have confirmed that both happened.

The following graph is from borehole temps which show both the medieval warming period, and the mini ice age that followed.
home.wanadoo.nl...

Here is the same graph so you can compare it with the one below.



the following is a graph from all the surface data which has been acquired for decades and shows also both events.


The third part, which is not a flaw but provides a very interesting fact, is that according to the Hockey stick graph, and other data presented by the "it's all mankind's fault crowd", Global Warming on the surface of the Earth started to dramatically rise a few years into the 1900s...while borehole data shows that the Earth's crust has been warming dramatically since the 1700s, and that's without counting the increase which started in the 1600s.

Anyways, the data in my opinion clearly shows that the changes that we are going through started apparently from the Earth's core outwards, and not only that, but every planet in the solar system with an atmosphere has been going through some dramatic climate changes lately.

Is all of that a coincidence? i doubt it.

The thing is that many people, and this includes various scientists, need to believe that "mankind is at fault", for the simple reason that it gives them a sense of control. If mankind is at fault, then mankind can stop it right?...

When that sense of "control" is gone, people will have to face the fact that Climate Change has happened countless of times, and it has often not been good for mankind in the past, and we are going through one right now, and despite all the "hype" from the "mankind is at fault crowd", we can't stop Climate Change.

I have been saying it for a while now, instead of using millions and billions of dollars trying to put the blame on mankind, the governments of the world should be using that money for contigency plans, because the changes that are coming, and we can't stop, are not going to be a "walk in the park" by any means... and if we don't have any contigency plans, a lot of people are going to suffer.

[edit on 3-2-2007 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muadib
Would you actually care to back up such a claim that all people who doubt the whole "climate change is caused by man" are paid by Exxon, Shell or any other agency to claim this?...

First of all, not all people, and scientists, who don't agree with the theory that man is the cause for global warming, doubt that there is a climate change on the making....

Here's a link about AEI, the American Enterprise Institute, the intellectual Cosa Nostra Big oil has staitioned to protect their prospects in the White House. About how they offered money. Only 10 grants... who did they think they were dealing with? ...the milkboy? I'm really disappointed as to the amount.

How much was it Exxon just has presented in profit for last Q?
----------

You know Maudib, we might have a hard time agreeing, but as for the reasons of GW, I'm openminded all the way, and I can agree with you some of the way. On climate change though I must disagree. For sure there's one like we havn't seen them in 12.000 years in the making.

For this impressive post I actually think you deserve to be applauded. And thanks for the links.

Just remember, when you believe it is because you don't know. There's nothing to believe if you know.

Originally posted by Muaddib

Would you actually care to back up such a claim that all people who doubt the whole "climate change is caused by man" are paid by Exxon, Shell or any other agency to claim this?...

You missed a key word in my post, I said :

The only credible scientific reports to counter global warming seem to come from scientists on the payrolls of such corporations as Exxon and Shell. This is based on other debates from people throwing names around. A simple google or wikipedia search will reveal their interests. Do you have any names of credible scientists you would like to throw out to support your views on this??

Originally posted by Muaddib
First of all, not all people, and scientists, who don't agree with the theory that man is the cause for global warming, doubt that there is a climate change on the making....

Thats all fine and dandy, except that I never said man was the cause of it, only a contributor and is speeding up the process. Did you even read my links or my posts?

Originally posted by Muaddib
People, and scientists can believe and know that Climate Change is happening as we speak, and still believe that mankind is not the cause....

Second of all, there is much data to refute the idea that mankind is the cause of global warming. Take as an example borehole temperatures.

Again, I never said mankind was the cause, that isn't even what this thread is about. There are debates on this topic going in other threads. This thread is about global warming and mans affects and if we can even stop it based on the damage we have caused. The hockey stick graph was not brougth up once in here yet, so why are you tearing it apart?

Originally posted by Muaddib
It is kind of a coincidence, and I don't believe in coincidences but anyways, it is kind of a coincidence that the Earth's magnetic field had been relatively stable before "the middle of the 1800s", but has been weakening significantly since then.

This is a true statement and it is a contributing factor to global warming, but NOT the only one.

Originally posted by Muaddib
Anyways, the data in my opinion clearly shows that the changes that we are going through started apparently from the Earth's core outwards, and not only that, but every planet in the solar system with an atmosphere has been going through some dramatic climate changes lately.

No offence, but I will trust the leading group of the worlds climate scientists over your word and opinion - that is unless you have some fancy credentials you would like to share with us on the topic.

Originally posted by Muaddib
The thing is that many people, and this includes various scientists, need to believe that "mankind is at fault", for the simple reason that it gives them a sense of control. If mankind is at fault, then mankind can stop it right?...

Again, the topic of this thread is asking whether we are even able to stop it if we tried. You see a thread on global warming and immediately jump in here thinking you are proving us all wrong, but that isn't the topic at hand. Again, I am not saying mankind is at fault, just making it far worse. Please for the love of denying ignorance, please read my source links in the op.

Originally posted by Muaddib
I have been saying it for a while now, instead of using millions and billions of dollars trying to put the blame on mankind, the governments of the world should be using that money for contigency plans, because the changes that are coming, and we can't stop, are not going to be a "walk in the park" by any means... and if we don't have any contigency plans, a lot of people are going to suffer.

[edit on 3-2-2007 by Muaddib]

Um source please?? I dont know of anyone spending millions and billions to blame man, rather trying to educate people that by making small changes in our lives, we can make a difference for the effect WE as in mankind are having on global warming. A good contigency plan is nice and all, but why not try and stop it at its source. Mankind again isn't the root cause, but we do enough damage to tip the scale way off.

Originally posted by khunmoon

Here's a link about AEI, the American Enterprise Institute, the intellectual Cosa Nostra Big oil has staitioned to protect their prospects in the White House. About how they offered money. Only 10 grants... who did they think they were dealing with? ...the milkboy? I'm really disappointed as to the amount.

How much was it Exxon just has presented in profit for last Q?

Sorry but that link does not show that "all people" who don't agree with the "it's all mankind's fault" crowd is being paid by Exxon, or Shell, or any other company to make statements and publish research work that contradicts the whole "it's all mankind's fault crowd."

Originally posted by khunmoon
----------

You know Maudib, we might have a hard time agreeing, but as for the reasons of GW, I'm openminded all the way, and I can agree with you some of the way. On climate change though I must disagree. For sure there's one like we havn't seen them in 12.000 years in the making.

And that data is hiding, or trying to ignore the data that has been corroborated time and again that Climate Change has happened in the past, and has been worse than it is now in some cases, and has changed within a decade in some cases when there were no "cars and factories" around.

Originally posted by khunmoon
For this impressive post I actually think you deserve to be applauded. And thanks for the links.

Just remember, when you believe it is because you don't know. There's nothing to believe if you know.

Well thanks, but i don't think I should be applauded, there are people out there who deserve more recognition for their findings, the researchers who don't get the 5 minutes of fame because their data and research does not support the "it's all mankind's fault" crowd, and these people have lost research money, and there is currently a "witch hunt" for any scientist who would even doubt that mankind is the cause for global warming.

Those are the people that deserve to be heard and deserve applauses, I am just posting information those researchers have been trying to bring to light for decades.

One of those people is David Deming.

So to the scare. First, the UN implies that carbon dioxide ended the last four ice ages. It displays two 450,000-year graphs: a sawtooth curve of temperature and a sawtooth of airborne CO2 that's scaled to look similar. Usually, similar curves are superimposed for comparison. The UN didn't do that. If it had, the truth would have shown: the changes in temperature preceded the changes in CO2 levels.

Next, the UN abolished the medieval warm period (the global warming at the end of the First Millennium AD). In 1995, David Deming, a geoscientist at the University of Oklahoma, had written an article reconstructing 150 years of North American temperatures from borehole data. He later wrote: "With the publication of the article in Science, I gained significant credibility in the community of scientists working on climate change. They thought I was one of them, someone who would pervert science in the service of social and political causes. One of them let his guard down. A major person working in the area of climate change and global warming sent me an astonishing email that said: 'We have to get rid of the Medieval Warm Period.' "

So they did. The UN's second assessment report, in 1996, showed a 1,000-year graph demonstrating that temperature in the Middle Ages was warmer than today. But the 2001 report contained a new graph showing no medieval warm period. It wrongly concluded that the 20th century was the warmest for 1,000 years. The graph looked like an ice hockey-stick. The wrongly flat AD1000-AD1900 temperature line was the shaft: the uptick from 1900 to 2000 was the blade. Here's how they did it:
....

www.telegraph.co.uk.../news/2006/11/05/nosplit/nwarm05.xml

The data from researchers like David Deming should be made more available, even if it contradicts the whole "mankind is at fault for global warming claim".

Anyways, sorry for the rant but it has to be said.

Here is another link which has some information on who David Deming is and also corroborates the excerpt and link i gave above.

eteam.ncpa.org...

[edit on 3-2-2007 by Muaddib]

Wait a second..."you" make a claim which is far from the truth and then you ask "me" to contradict your claim?....

You got it the wrong way but anyways...

Appart from David Deming here are some people I just found by doing "some research".

Two other researchers who have been victims of the present "witch hunt".

While most of official Washington was captivated with the fight on the Senate floor to pass an energy bill before Congress left town for its August vacation, a vicious campaign was under way behind the scenes to smear two leading scientists for pointing out serious flaws in the science behind the theory of human-caused climate change.

The targets were Willie Soon and Sallie Baliunas, both astrophysicists at Harvard, who were characterized as fringe scientists whose work should be ignored. What did they do to attract such characterizations? They had the audacity to pull back the curtain on the wizard of global warming.

The issue focuses on a paper by them that supports the widely held view that the climate of the last millennium has been quite variable and includes a Medieval Warm Period and subsequent Little Ice Age. This is only controversial because it, and the wider body of scientific literature that exists, directly contradicts recent research by Michael Mann, a leading global warming proponent. Mr. Mann argues global air temperatures have been stable over the last 1,000 years, with the exception of the last 100. It is the "Mann-made" warming to which Mr. Soon and Ms. Baliunas have objected.

While most of these arguments are confined to academic discussions that the general public would find less than boring, this fight played out recently in front of the U.S. Senate Committee on the Environment and Public Works. It has also been echoed in several news accounts from academic journals to the New York Times.

www.marshall.org...


There is also Khabibullo Ismailovich Abdusamatov.

ST. PETERSBURG, January 15 (RIA Novosti) - Rising levels of carbon dioxide and other gases emitted through human activities, believed by scientists to trap heat in the Earth's atmosphere, are an effect rather than the cause of global warming, a prominent Russian scientist said Monday.

Habibullo Abdusamatov, head of the space research laboratory at the St. Petersburg-based Pulkovo Observatory, said global warming stems from an increase in the sun's activity. His view contradicts the international scientific consensus that climate change is attributable to the emission of greenhouse gases generated by industrial activities, such as the burning of fossil fuels and deforestation.

en.rian.ru...

There is also Marcel Leroux, former Professor of Climatology.

On the causes of climate change, he writes in a section entitled "Conclusion: The greenhouse effect is not the cause of climate change": "The possible causes, then, of climate change are: well-established orbital parameters on the palaeoclimatic scale, with climatic consequences slowed by the inertial effect of glacial accumulations; solar activity, thought by some to be responsible for half of the 0.6°C rise in temperature, and by others to be responsible for all of it, which situation certainly calls for further analysis; volcanism and its associated aerosols (and especially sulphates), whose (short-term) effects are indubitable; and far at the rear, the greenhouse effect, and in particular that caused by water vapor, the extent of its influence being unknown. These factors are working together all the time, and it seems difficult to unravel the relative importance of their respective influences upon climatic evolution. Equally, it is tendentious to highlight the anthropic factor, which is, clearly, the least credible among all those previously mentioned." (Leroux 2005, p. 120)

www.answers.com...

There is Zbigniew Jaworowski, Frederick Seitz, Fred Singer, Nir Shaviv, William M. Gray, etc, the list is extensive yet the media says pretty much nothing on the research these people have done.

[edit on 3-2-2007 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib

Appart from David Deming here are some people I just found by doing "some research".

LMAO - David Demming?! This link describes the NCPA and its funding source.

exxon secrets

from source link

FUNDING
National Center for Policy Analysis has received $390,900 from ExxonMobil since 1998.

1998
$65,900 ExxonMobil Corporate Giving
Source: ExxonMobil 1998 grants list

2000
$30,000 ExxonMobil Foundation
general support
Source: ExxonMobil Foundation 2000 IRS 990

2001
$40,000 ExxonMobil Foundation
Source: ExxonMobil 2001 Annual Report

2002
$30,000 ExxonMobil Foundation
Source: ExxonMobil 2002 Annual Report

2003
$75,000 ExxonMobil Foundation
Source: ExxonMobil 2003 Corporate Giving Report

2004
$75,000 ExxonMobil Foundation
Source: Exxon Giving Report 2004

2005
$75,000 ExxonMobil Foundation
Source: ExxonMobil 2005 DIMENSIONS Report (Corporate Giving)



KEY PEOPLE
James C. Thompson Jr.
Director
Source: NCPA website 4/04

Sandy Liddy Bourne
E-Team Expert
Source: NCPA website 4/04

David Deming
Adjunct Scholar, "E-Team"
Source: NCPA website 4/04

Notice the last name above? David Deming is part of the NCPA - a conservative group with funding from ... gasp... Exxon to discount the consensus on global warming and mankinds effects. You call this a witch hunt because they wont listen to a scientist on the payroll of a major pollutor?? How dare they!!

Originally posted by Muaddib
Two other researchers who have been victims of the present "witch hunt".


While most of official Washington was captivated with the fight on the Senate floor to pass an energy bill before Congress left town for its August vacation, a vicious campaign was under way behind the scenes to smear two leading scientists for pointing out serious flaws in the science behind the theory of human-caused climate change.

The targets were Willie Soon and Sallie Baliunas, both astrophysicists at Harvard, who were characterized as fringe scientists whose work should be ignored. What did they do to attract such characterizations? They had the audacity to pull back the curtain on the wizard of global warming.

There is Zbigniew Jaworowski, Frederick Seitz, Fred Singer, Nir Shaviv, William M. Gray, etc, the list is extensive yet the media says pretty much nothing on the research these people have done.

These people have theories that are inconsistant with mainstream climate experts and it is a witch hunt? Just between you and me, I do believe the sun has a very large role in global warming, however to deny our involvement is ignorant. We are attacking this planet in many ways, not just through co2 emmissions, but the cutting down of trees, driving species to extenction, changing the face of the land, stripping the earth of resources, dumping toxic chemicals into the ground sea and air.... All of these things together, including the increase of solar activity, are causing the changes.

It's getting rather late in the game for dead horse beatings.

Deal with warming, don't debate it, scientists warn Los Angeles Times

The US's two party system, the EU and many corporations no longer oppose global warming influenced anthropogenic greenhouse gases, so what are the most feasible solutions?

Global Warming Debate Shifts To Who Pays CBS
US, Australia Pushed To Ink Kyoto Pact CBS
Chirac: US risks EU tax unless Kyoto pact is signed Chicago Tribune

Swedish scientists may have solution to global warming Helena Independent



[edit on 3-2-2007 by Regenmacher]

Well, you see, there is no way to disregard the fact that there is data which contradicts the whole "humans are the cause of global warming claim". The hockey stick graph has been debunked by several scientists...

and btw, remember that IPCC scientists used to think that we can stop global warming?...

Well, now they have changed their minds, they still want to blame mankind, but a new report by the IPCC now says there is no way to stop global warming.... Go figure...after all the time several scientists and people like myself have been saying it can't be stopped...

U.N. says there's no stopping global warming
Report also says climate change is 'very likely' the result of human activities.
By Thomas H. Maugh II, Times Staff Writer
February 2, 2007


In the strongest language it has ever used, a United Nations panel says global warming is "very likely" caused by human activities and has become a runaway train that cannot be stopped.

The warming of Earth and increases in sea levels "would continue for centuries … even if greenhouse gas concentrations were to be stabilized," according to a 20-page summary of the report that was leaked to wire services.

The summary of the fourth report by the U.N.'s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, or IPCC, was scheduled for release this morning in Paris. But scientists involved in the final editing process have been leaking bits and pieces from it all week, culminating in the leaking of the full report eight hours before its release.

www.latimes.com...

Well, well, well....they keep changing their minds.... Who would have thought that Global Warming Can't be stopped?....

The whole claim that mankind is behind runaway global warming, as I have stated and I have excerpted a million times already came from the Hockey stick Graph, presented by Mann.

That graph has been proven to be flawed and there was an intention of supressing real data, and rewritting of history, which demonstrates that Global warming is nothing new, and it has happened worse than it is happening now and at times when there were no cars, no factories, no AC, etc, etc...

[edit on 3-2-2007 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by LogansRun
LMAO - David Demming?! This link describes the NCPA and its funding source.
................

Wow...it must be true then... i mean you give a link to a site i have never heard of, and which makes claims which it excerpts directly from that same website, which obviously states everyone who disagrees with the claim that mankind is responsible for global warming has to be paid off by Exxon or some other company to say those things, and it must be true...

To tell you the truth i don't know whether what that website claims about Deming in particular is true or not, there are too many claims going around, and many of them are nothing but lies.

But I also wonder why you didn't try to do the same to the other scientists I excerpted from...i guess they all are paid to say those things..... and I guess the IPCC and Mann were not caught red handed in trying to change history and coming up with the claim mankind is at fault using a graph which they rigged to disregard the Middle Ages warming, and the little Ice age which came after....among some other data...

LMAO?..... yeah...I am LMAO....

[edit on 3-2-2007 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
But I also wonder why you didn't try to do the same to the other scientists I excerpted from...i guess they all are paid to say those things..... and I guess the IPCC and Mann were not caught red handed in trying to change history and coming up with the claim mankind is at fault using a graph which they rigged to disregard the Middle Ages warming, and the little Ice age which came after....among some other data...

LMAO?..... yeah...I am LMAO....

[edit on 3-2-2007 by Muaddib]

Believe what you will about the info I posted. Again, this thread is about us not being able to stop it at this point, not to debate its existance or its causes.

I didn't do that to the other scientists because they aren't necessaraly on the exxon payroll - that doesn't make them right. There are scientists out there that also claim that the earth is only a few thousand years old. As I said, man is not the CAUSE but rather a contributor - a big one.

Oh, and before i forget, as to the witch hunt i was refering, which i already presented briefly, I was also talking about the following...

Heidi Cullen
Weather Channel Climate Expert Calls for Decertifying Global Warming Skeptics
By US Senate Environment and Public Works

Thursday, January 18, 2007

The Weather Channel's most prominent climatologist is advocating that broadcast meteorologists be stripped of their scientific certification if they express skepticism about predictions of manmade catastrophic global warming. This latest call to silence skeptics follows a year (2006) in which skeptics were compared to "Holocaust Deniers" and Nuremberg-style war crimes trials were advocated by several climate alarmists.

The Weather Channel's (TWC) Heidi Cullen, who hosts the weekly global warming program "The Climate Code," is advocating that the American Meteorological Society (AMS) revoke their "Seal of Approval" for any television weatherman who expresses skepticism that human activity is creating a climate catastrophe.

www.canadafreepress.com...

Cullen, among some other "scientists" want to decertify any meteorologist that expresses skepticism about mankind's role in global warming...

I guess that is no more proff that a witch hunt is going on?....

It was probably Exxon who paid her to say those things too huh?...

You know, noone in theri right mind will make sucha claim, so Exxon probably paid her to make that claim and bring doubt to the true agenda of the "mankind is at fault on global warming" crowd...

[edit on 3-2-2007 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by LogansRun

Believe what you will about the info I posted. Again, this thread is about us not being able to stop it at this point, not to debate its existance or its causes.

I have already told another member that you can't be making claims in a thread and then tell members not to respond to those claims, you made it part of your original thread, then it is part of the discussion.

Originally posted by LogansRun

I didn't do that to the other scientists because they aren't necessaraly on the exxon payroll - that doesn't make them right. There are scientists out there that also claim that the earth is only a few thousand years old. As I said, man is not the CAUSE but rather a contributor - a big one.

The data is what makes them right, and the fact that the whole "mankind is the big factor" or "mankind is responsible for global warming" claims, came to life because of a graph that was rigged with false data....

Originally posted by Muaddib
The whole claim that mankind is behind runaway global warming, as I have stated and I have excerpted a million times already came from the Hockey stick Graph, presented by Mann.

Hockey stick smockey stick, that debatable bs doesn't dismiss the multitudes of other data. As for now saying it's out of control, that's what happens when the numerical models were too conservative to begin with.

Myth vs. Fact Regarding the "Hockey Stick"

US government and the EU all on the same ship now...just a matter of who pays and what is to be done. So go resurrect the dead horse of denial on the senate floor and see how it works.

I suspect the first increase most will notice is in home owner's insurance. I already know a few folks on the coast are pissed about their rates doubling in the last couple years.






[edit on 3-2-2007 by Regenmacher]