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Originally posted by andy1033
it does not matter about debating whether true or false, amn cannot and will not do anything to change course, whether responsible or not.
Originally posted by andy1033
the avergae man on street only gets effected when something happens that disrupost there lifestyle. americans do not care, even though they are responsible for 25% of co2 emissions.
Originally posted by andy1033
we will be back here again in a few years, debating the next journal whenever they are to meet again, and saying the same stuff we say here.
Originally posted by andy1033
the sun is the most responsible for climate, not co2 emissions from man. man cannot do anything about the sun that is why, people will not do anything to drastic about emissions, so we should just stop arguing and talk about other things, because man, is not going to change this, for the time being at least.
Originally posted by andy1033
even though this group did this report do you think that they are going to cut down on plane travel in europe or america, which represent the biggest emissions of co2 into the upper atmosphere, no way. people are going to look afer no1 like they always will. and no debating on this forum will not change anything either, because man knows deep down that the populationm of the earth is not at the right moment of history that it can band together, fullstop, end of argument.
Originally posted by Regenmacher
Hockey stick smockey stick, that debatable bs doesn't dismiss the multitudes of other data. As for now saying it's out of control, that's what happens when the numerical models were too conservative to begin with.
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Originally posted by Vitchilo
That's what I'm saying. The sun activity is increasing
Originally posted by grover
DOES HUMAN ACTIVITY CONTRIBUTE TO GLOBAL WARMING AND IF SO TO WHAT DEGREE, AND IF SO WHAT CAN OR SHOULD WE DO ABOUT IT?
THAT is the only question is important...everything else is a distraction from dealing with that one question.
Originally posted by Muaddib
Maybe those same mole people sent their astronauts all over the solar system and they are the cause for the mayhem happening as we speak in every planet with an atmosphere in the solar system...yeah, mankind is at fault for all of that..
Originally posted by Regenmacher
Global numerical weather models have nothing to do with your fictional comic book universe. So go post your own long term forecast and we shall see how accurate your climate rantings are in comparison to the NOAA, NWS, and WMO.
Originally posted by grover
.............
Muaddib, outraged, rails about the so-called liberal and environmental agenda. He is forgetting he has his own agenda to push as well and as a result has no credibility; since he cherry picks his reference material, as much as he claims those he opposes do.
Originally posted by grover
One thing he forgets is that there are a lot of mutually contridictory studies out there BUT just because one study counters something that you do not like doesn't mean that it is any more accurate than the one you object to.
Originally posted by grover
Part of science is to sort out the various claims and studies and come to some sort of working consensus.
Originally posted by grover
Something that has yet to be done, so to say that this study reputes another one is disingenious at best and obscures the only question that is important:
DOES HUMAN ACTIVITY CONTRIBUTE TO GLOBAL WARMING AND IF SO TO WHAT DEGREE, AND IF SO WHAT CAN OR SHOULD WE DO ABOUT IT?
THAT is the only question is important...everything else is a distraction from dealing with that one question.
Originally posted by grover
You keep presenting different data that is true Muaddib but there is no consistancy... you now claim that the rise in temp. comes within the earth... previously you have claimed that it was solar activity or the effect of stellar space clouds and that the whole solar system was warming, based on about 40 years of data, and God knows what else....so Muaddib, since you know everything and the rest of us who disagree with you are idiots who don't know what we are talking about, which is it?
Researcher predicts global climate change on Jupiter as giant planet's spots disappear
By Sarah Yang, Media Relations | 21 April 2004
BERKELEY – If a University of California, Berkeley, physicist's vision of Jupiter is correct, the giant planet will be in for a major global temperature shift over the next decade as most of its large vortices disappear.
pril 22, 2003: Three years ago, something weird happened to the Sun.
Normally, our star, like Earth itself, has a north and a south magnetic pole. But for nearly a month beginning in March 2000, the Sun's south magnetic pole faded, and a north pole emerged to take its place. The Sun had two north poles.
"It sounds impossible, but it's true," says space physicist Pete Riley of Science Applications International Corporation (SAIC) in San Diego. "In fact, it's a fairly normal side-effect of the solar cycle." Every 11 years around solar maximum, the Sun's magnetic field goes haywire as the Sun's underlying magnetic dynamo reorganizes itself. The March 2000 event was simply a part of that upheaval.
Using a supercomputer named Blue Horizon and data from spacecraft (especially NASA's ACE and ESA-NASA's Ulysses) Riley and colleagues are studying how these complex changes can affect our planet. "The Sun's magnetic field permeates the entire solar system," explains Riley. "It interacts with Earth and is the primary driver of space weather."
The Sun Goes Haywire
Solar maximum is years past, yet the sun has been remarkably active lately. Is the sunspot cycle broken?
November 12, 2003: Imagine you're in California. It's July, the middle of summer. The sun rises early; bright rays warm the ground. It's a great day to be outside. Then, suddenly, it begins to snow--not just a little flurry, but a swirling blizzard that doesn't stop for two weeks.
That's what forecasters call unseasonal weather.
It sounds incredible, but "something like that just happened on the sun," says David Hathaway, a solar physicist at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center.
Only a few weeks ago solar activity was low. The face of the sun was nearly blank--"very few sunspots," says Hathaway--and space weather near Earth was mild. "Mild is just what we expect at this point in the 11-year solar cycle," he explains. "The most recent maximum was in 2001, and solar activity has been declining ever since."
Then, suddenly, in late October the sun began to behave strangely. Three giant sunspots appeared, each one larger than the planet Jupiter. In California where smoke from wildfires dimmed the sun enough to look straight at it, casual sky watchers were startled by the huge blotches on the sun. One of them, named "sunspot 486," was the biggest in 13 years.
Originally posted by grover
BTW what little right wing fairy told you that changes in the environment does not have effects on a global scale?
BTW haven't you ever realized that you use science as a political tool? You constantly cherry pick the data you want... ain't no difference... you have no credibility, you are just another hack.
Originally posted by Muaddib
What I am tyring to prove is that since we can't do anything to stop global warming, we should accept the fact that these Climate changes are coming, and should be preparing for them instead of getting into fights as if we were still in high school.
[edit on 5-2-2007 by Muaddib]
Originally posted by grover
I know about the magnetic field...both ours and the sun's flip every 500,000 years or so, but so far I know of no data that asserts it is heating the planet as a result....
Our planet's magnetic field reverses about once every 200,000 years on average. However, the time between reversals is highly variable. The last time Earth's magnetic field flipped was 780,000 years ago, according to the geologic record of Earth's polarity.
Every 11 years the Sun's magnetic field flips, but scientists don't know what triggers it. A new study shows that big eruptions of superheated gas, called coronal mass ejections, may play an important role.
Solar wind blows some of Earth's atmosphere into space
Polar spacecraft measures "auroral fountain" flowing out as solar wind flows in
............................
In the early 1980s, scientists at NASA/Marshall, using an instrument aboard the Dynamics Explorer-1 (DE-1) satellite, discovered that the upper ionosphere is heated by electrical currents to form a "polar plasma fountain" of oxygen and hydrogen ions.
.............................
The energy can be calculated from the intensity of the light from the aurora borealis. On Sept. 24, a modest amount of power - roughly 80 gigawatts - flowed in during several smaller substorms preceding the main event which pumped 200 GW.
...........
A major pipeline fire in the USSR in the 1990s may have been caused by galvanic erosion from solar storms.
The Sun emitted the most intense burst of solar radiation towards Earth for five decades when it produced a large solar flare on 20 January 2005. The swarm of energised particles also reached Earth in record time, scientists say.
Charged protons from most coronal mass ejections - the giant clouds of plasma which accompany solar flares - usually take at least two hours to reach their peak around Earth. But this flare peaked after a mere 15 minutes.
They tell Geophysical Research Letters the X45 class event was more than twice as big as the previous record flare.
Fortunately, the Earth did not take a direct hit from this immense blast of radiation and matter.
.......
The New Zealanders say their calculations show the flare's X-ray radiation bombarding the atmosphere was equivalent to that of 5,000 suns, though none of it reached the Earth's surface, they stress.
Originally posted by grover
as for the other planets to claim that we 300 or 400 years of observations is disingenious... yes we have been looking at it through telescopes for that long but accumulating data on it... hardly.... only 40 or 50 years have we had instruments sensitive enough to actually measure what is going on, on the other planets so that hardly counts as conclusive proof.
Originally posted by grover
As for the sun you had no comment I see on the study that shows that actually less light has been reaching the surface of the earth in the past decade of so and it is suspected that the very same hydrocarbons that hold heat in preventing its escape into space, have also been reflecting more light back out into space... If that is true then global warming is a double edged sword... yes it is contributing to the warming of the planet but it is preventing it from getting much worse.
Ice ages linked to galactic position
Study finds Earth may be cooled by movement through Milky Way's stellar clouds
It might sound preposterous, like astrology, to suggest that galactic events help determine when North America is or isn't buried under immense sheets of ice taller than skyscrapers. But new research suggests the coming and going of major ice ages might result partly from our solar system's passage through immense, snakelike clouds of exploding stars in the Milky Way galaxy.
Now a team of astrophysicists, atmosphere
and space physicists has found galactic
involvement for the repeated development
of ice ages on earth. According to their
postulate, whenever the solar system while
orbiting around the centre of our Milky
Way galaxy, once in 250 million years,
encounters giant molecular clouds (GMC),
dramatic changes in climate could be triggered
on earth. Several thousands of such
cloud masses, mostly made up of atomic
and molecular hydrogen and dusty carbonaceous
particles and silicates are known to
lie in its path (Figure 1). They can effectively
shut-off solar radiation, enhance
water vapour content of the middle atmosphere
with attendant drop in temperature,
form dense mesospheric ice-clouds and
finally precipitate runaway ice-albedo feedback
leading to global cooling8. A mere 5
to 10% reduction in the solar luminosity
by the dust could decrease the amount of
heat reaching earth and initiate sufficient
cooling for the polar ice to spread slowly
to low latitudes and even up to the equator.
Originally posted by grover
I have yet to read a study that says mankind is the sole cause of global warming... every one of them use the word contribute.