As smart as an american! Wtf LOOOOL

Originally posted by ironjasper

Originally posted by orangetom1999

Originally posted by BASSPLYR

How many people do you folks know who cannot describe some thought, concept or idea outside of a movie or television program they have watched?? When you see and understand enough of this you realize these people have no real life experiences of thier own. What they know is second hand from someone elses point of view. THey are "Watchers" not thinkers and doers.

When you tie these patterns together this cannot be accidental but deliberate.

The average American knows more about the rubbish coming across the screens in their televisions than about the world around them.

How many will be going way out of thier way to prepare for this weekends bowel game but not for actual thinking??
I will not be watching the superbowel game this weekend. I will be taking advantage of the abscence of people in the stores and on the roads after kick off time to get some much needed shopping done.

Thanks,
Orangetom

So where exactly are you getting your knowledge? Unless you're conducting pioneering research, you too receive almost all of your knowledge second hand!

Where you get your knowledge is less important than what you do with it afterwards. This is what separates thinkers from slackers.

Of course, there are exceptions to this rule, and generally the TV is not regarded as the best choice for obtaining knowledge.

In terms of the Superbowel........ I'll be watching Sunday, I love football. If this, in your opinion, makes me less of an intellectual then perhaps you may want to consider getting a life. Have fun shopping!

I think the idea is that I dont get my knowlege from the television. I get much of my knowlege from doing and being taught by others. Not movies and television. Also from reading and then understanding the concept....then going on to put it to use...in the field. Actually put it to use.

Like opening a book and modifying a piece of equipment. Overhauling a engine. Putting a ship in a bottle. Wiring a piece of equipment. Building your own fishing rod.
Teaching ones self morse code. Building an antenna. Repairing a television set. Teaching ones self to hang siding on ones home.

Lots of things you can learn by doing or by reading and then doing ..not by watching. Sooner or later you learn to do ..not just watch others and complain because someone else is not doing it for you and flashdancing you through lifes hurdles.

Yes I agree ..you must eventually put it to use. Thinkers and doers verses slackers..precisely.

I sometimes read book or biographys about these people who came long before us who built machines and tools which today are mass produced by other machines. They did this by hand ..begining to end. What a bunch of dudes to have thought this up and then built it ..even in what today we would think of as crude beginings...but they did it ..they were pioneers.
What minds..what spirit...they didnt quit..they kept at it ..often for years and years. Amazing what you read about them.

I just bought a flux core welding machine. I dont know how to use it well but will eventually purchase books and teach myself and also when I get off this hectic work schedule I plan to take night school classes in learning to weld.

THis knowlege or ability does not make one better than others ..it does however make one different.

I agree TV is not the best choice for obtaining knowlege. I think it is a very poor choice...for just about everything.

My main point is that I know a number of people who cannot describe any personal experiences except in terms of some movie or television experience they have observed in others. Their morality is someone elses...their thinking and emotions are someone elses. Or to put it another way they are on the puppet strings and dont know it. They have no real life experiences outside of watching someone else on a screen. Understand now??

Ever watch some of these people closely...if they dont have a television or video to watch it is like someone took away thier drugs...they go into withdrawl. Amazing. They dont know what to do with themselves.

This makes one aware of how many people live second hand like this. No original thinking going on in their brains.

I will still not be watching the game on Sunday. Just my preference. I am glad others will be doing so. It leaves me uncrowded time at the stores doing the grocery shopping I have been putting off for sometime now.

Thanks,
Orangetom

I like your examples, it is a great feeling to obtain new knowledge or learn a new skill. My dad used to get on my case all the time when I was young about watching too much TV, at the time it really pissed me off. However, as I got older I realized that TV was, for the most part, a waste of time. Now that I have kids of my own, I feel more strongly that I don't want them watching too much TV.....

This whole thread cracks me up though..... I know some of the people are just getting on our (Americans) case, but some of them seem to think that because of this video or because their friends said so, that most Americans are idiots.

In my opinion, intelligence is not a measure of how many facts a person knows. Rather, it's the ability to understand and learn new things, and solve problems. It's the ability to connect a concept to other concepts in order to "see" how they all fit together.

There are many intelligent people who lack knowledge. Knowledge by its nature is a socially constructed context dependent entity. Therefore, in the right context anyone can look the fool from time to time.

I'm sure if you visited any country, and asked the right questions, you could make the population look foolish.

Anyhow, it's nice chatting with you!

John

Oh my!!! Yes the edit is important, and yet we still have warnings on plastic bags imploring us to not place the bag over our heads. I believe that is called interfering with natural selection.

Originally posted by ironjasper

This whole thread cracks me up though..... I know some of the people are just getting on our (Americans) case, but some of them seem to think that because of this video or because their friends said so, that most Americans are idiots.

In my opinion, intelligence is not a measure of how many facts a person knows. Rather, it's the ability to understand and learn new things, and solve problems. It's the ability to connect a concept to other concepts in order to "see" how they all fit together.

John,
I agree. If you went to any country you will find variations of what many describe in Americans.

I recall learning about the English Civil War in the 1640s and chatting with some folks from England. They did not know what happened at Marston Moore or Nasby Field. I was somewhat astonished by this at the time.

But then again some of our education system is attempting to model on the European systems.

In addition to people here or elsewhere who define themselves and thier lives by some movie/television program they watch..I am constantly appalled by how many know more about the next product or gadget to come down the pipeline or what is fashionable today. Yet these same people do not know much about their ancestors..thier immediate family history...much less the history of thier nation. I feel like as a people we should at least know something about our family history..as this is part of our national history. Yet in some manner we seem to have gotten so much backwards in lieu of "feel good" education.

My limited experiences teachs me that education can be hard work..not feel good. Also to go steps further, the practical use of the education out in the field indicates that this is several steps harder...more difficult when you find out that "Schools out" so to speak. No laboratory classroom conditions here folks.
Truth be known however ...school is never out. YOu are learning the rest of your life. Though by television programming results from many people you might observe indicate otherwise.

YOu know it took me over a year to figure out the electronic problem with my truck. Fortunately I had an alternate means of getting to and fro work.
I even took it to a shop but they didnt solve the problem. Thats when I realized that some people in the shops were not much brighter than was I.
It took another six months but I eventually got it. Enough books and searching on line...I finally managed to figure it out. Learned several things here in this experience.

Agree on the practical use of the education. Education is not just facts ....but also a logical ,reasonable, rational method to put the facts together for our benifit. The "Facts" are merely grist to use by our thinking apparatus. It is the thinking apparatus which makes these facts useful to us. Facts alone are not much without the proper thinking/analytical ability combined with basic diciplines. This is what solves problems. Also yes...problems as a whole...to see the bigger picture ...the awareness of the various relationships needed to solve these problems.

Thanks for your post,
Orangetom (Phil)

John and Phil,

It's an understatement that people are living second hand. It's a sad statement about a group of people when they would rather watch TV or read a gossip tabloid over reading a book or getting out for once and a while, because they would rather find out what a pregnant britney spears' favorite ice cream flavor is than find out what the genius's of the world are up to, inventing and discovering and how it affects you and me.

Also, I find it sad that if you don't prescribe to the zietgiest of being dumbed down by the general media, following along the trends etc... and you actually go out and do things, things outside the house like volunteer or try new things, explore parts of life one hasn't seen or do often, people don't believe you if you say you've been to see the aztec ruins or gone skydiving.

It's all too outside the box for them to think about doing for themselves. And, because of that they are unwilling to except that that side of life exists or that is should be normal. So you yourself get outcast for not following the sheep.

It would be worth it for them to give new experiences a chance. Maybe they would feel like they have had a break through and found truely satisfying and enjoyable things to do.

Unfortunantly the media machine has infiltrated our way of life to such a degree that I feel that most people will inadvertantly fall into just getting their entertainment from the media. It's like a drug and i agree with you there. And because people need reprose from their symptoms they will always, or in general at least, follow the path of least resistance. Each person like a drop of water forming a river all rushing toword and getting swept away in the river of mass media culture.

People should get out more, learn to do things, experiance more than what is spoon fed to them, you know grow as individuels, because that is what truely makes us human and the only thing that will ever really satisfy our souls.

And how the media educates the masses. Ooooowww that's a long topic. I feel people would be really amazed if they knew about the latest discoveries of science. And enchanted by the true stories or history. Life writes better drama than any hollywood writer, and just reading a book on the past could offer more insight, education, and drama than any movie and for about half the cost.

Public school blechhhh. A place where one can learn so little by teachers so under educated themsleves. Private schools. Most if not all share the same problem. i went to private school, and a good expensive one at that. And our spanish teacher would berate students and make them feel dumb because they didn't know that Spain colonized Hawaii first, or that Mexico invented the pizza(which from the teachers description sounded more like a taco), or that BMW stands for British Motor Works. The irony there is that none of that information I just repeated hearing from the teacher is true. But he though it was and taught it as so. Even to the point of belittling the students for disagreeing with him. Oh yeah did I mention that he was also the football coach. Yeah....charming.

But that is the problem, why is the football coach teaching science class? We have a deep problem with education in our country and it starts from an attitude that knowledge gained or understood that stands outside the trendy zietgiest is looked down upon or as outside the cult of modern society.

Ummm... I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with any of you. But, to me, your paradise of intelligent intellectual boring people... Would... Well... Be boring!

What's wrong with a teenage girl idolizing a pop star?

If you aren't interested in science... Does that make you dumb?

When I go out with my friends... i don't want to talk about the latest scientific results from some under-sexed, over-brained, nerd!!!

Who says the information that I know is more important than the info you know? If the info that i know is more important... That makes me smarter than you right? I don't get it..........

Originally posted by LostSailor
Ummm... I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with any of you. But, to me, your paradise of intelligent intellectual boring people... Would... Well... Be boring!

What's wrong with a teenage girl idolizing a pop star?

If you aren't interested in science... Does that make you dumb?

When I go out with my friends... i don't want to talk about the latest scientific results from some under-sexed, over-brained, nerd!!!

Who says the information that I know is more important than the info you know? If the info that i know is more important... That makes me smarter than you right? I don't get it..........

Well, in a democracy, it does pretty well matter how informed the populace is. We vote for people in this country who have an impact on the rest of the planet, and if we have no idea who we are voting for, and how they stand on issues that can impact the survival of the species as a whole, that matters.

I understand that a lot of people cant be bothered to know the cutting edge science stories, but when the population of the worlds most powerful democracy (in terms of military might) hasnt the vaguest idea who we are blowing up and why, that is a bit of a problem. Thats one of Plato's criticisms of democracy, and I think a very valid one.

Also, I know they had to edit out the people who knew the answers in that video, but I have met enough people in my day to day life that arent any more informed, and so I know that it isnt a complete misrepresentation of us either.

It was funny, in a twisted and sad sort of way.

[edit on 5-2-2007 by Illusionsaregrander]

what does he want a job with Leno. I couldn't even watch it all. I bet if he found someone who actually knew the answers they edited it out.

Man they love trying to put us down. Just because we kicked there butts in a few wars, and had to come and save their butts in others.

Who's the first person they are going to call if someone try's to invade.

We should send them the video and say sorry, we are busy studying.

[edit on 5-2-2007 by Royal76]

First off BASSPLAYR..I thought BMW stood for Bavarian Motor Works..not British Motor Works. I wonder if you are not thinking BSA for Birmingham Small Arms.

I made a post just prior to this one here in Education and Media..titled
Semantics, Censorship and Seduction. You might be intrested in it. I wonder how much thinking is going on out there. I should get a sample by the responses to that post.

Agree about outside the box in thinking.

I get so disgusted going through the check out stands and being bombarded by such drivel as you describe in Brittany Spears and others of the genre. It really is insulting. More like the lowest common denominator in exploitation.

Lost sailor,
Good to see you again. Hope things are going well on the high seas. Cold out in the North Atlantic this time of year..North Pacific too.

Yes I understand about some young girl having pop idols they worship. No problem with this. What happens when this young girl never outgrows this type of idol worship and shallow thinking and has children while never growing up in certain arenas. I know some women like this. Mr Right is just over the horizon..if only they can reach him...he will flashdance them and their kids through life...if only they play thier cards right.
They never integrate themselves into real life skills..someone else will handle this hurdle for them..flashdance them. After all they deserve it the other dont. Is that not the core message from these periodicals at the check out stands...how about the books, novels.??

By the way..alot of young men are raised today with precisely this type of thinking belief and expectations only with a male facade on the outside to cover it up. They deserve it the others dont.

If you havent already you will see some of them attempting to enter your line of work. It takes some hard work to break this lowest common denominator in thinking to become part of a team effort it takes to stay alive and get the job done out at sea.
In my line of work we break them or get rid of them. That is just the way it is ..they can get you killed or badly hurt.

By the way..on that topic..are there many female groupies of the various pop idols attempting to get into that line of work?? Curious about this facet of your work. You know..away from shopping centers and pop idols,concerts, television etc etc?? Would you want one of these groupies watching your back out at sea?? How about your hard earned moneys while you are away at sea??

They are showing up in my line of work..shipbuilding, but often they dont stay long..at least not on the waterfront. They get an education and then often move on to other departments away from the waterfront. Some of them get married to get out.

I know about pop stars and such ...I just dont spend my hard earned moneys on them. No intrest in it.
Yes...Science is a dry subject. I dont particularly care for alot of science per se. It is boring yes..but it puts us in better cars ..computers..homes...better ships..etc etc..

History is what intrests me...though science is a important part of history.

Thanks and Smooth Sailing,
May the wind be at your back,

Orangetom

How can you say that science is boring?

I can understand someone saying that science is boring based on their experience in school, because with the wrong teacher science and math can be very boring. Of course, any subject can be boring with the wrong teacher.

However, when you really consider the true nature of science, (of which you will get very few people to agree on the exact definition) which in my opinion is the act of wanting to learn, question, and then strive to find the answers to your questions, then there's no way it's boring!

True science is trying to figure out and understand the history of the universe, how things connect, and what role we play in the game. Most people consider science a collection of boring facts, when in reality the facts are just pieces in an elaborate puzzle that we're still trying to fit together. It's the how they fit together that's the cool part!

In my physics class right now we are studying the evolution of the universe, our solar system, and life on our planet as a precursor to plate tectonics. My students love it; they're asking tons of questions every day. Why? Because we're focusing on the ideas, concepts, how they fit together, and how it all ties in with what they learned in chemistry and biology. It's neat stuff!

You can't dislike science, it's simply the act of observation, questioning, and then trying to figure out the answer. If you study history, unless you're just studying the facts, you're actually being scientific!

Later,
John

I am not against science per se..though I find much of it very boring. I am aware that science has put us in better cars, homes , made better televisions for us,clothes etc etc...but it has not actually made us better people.

Now when you get out into the field and see many of these principles in usage and the various intricacies of how it works. Principles like Hydraulics, pnuematics,..laminar flow. Gyroscopic principles. Leverage.
The science of material..stresses etc etc.

I was amazed to go into the other floors and see the various reference books the engineers use on materials and stresses, characteristics of all this stuff ..catalogued. Books one would be hard pressed to find in most librarys unless of course it was an engineering school. I found them very intresting though I am not familiar with many of the formulas which go on like...forever and interconnect with other formulas and principles. You really have to be up to speed to navigate these books.

This I find very intresting....verses classroom stuff. I do however recognize the need for classroom teaching and good teachers.
You have to start somewhere..

But you know Ironjasper..truth be known...though one may leave school ..the learning in life actually never ends. You learn something every day of your life even if it is something miniscule. It still contributes to your overall mosiac of life.

I am right now trying to plod my way through the writings of Flavius Josephus and the "Antiquities of the Jews and the Wars of the Jews". Very long and involved reading. I am taking this in short spells as I work my way through this tome. I just like history.

I should also tell you that I am involved in Shipbuilding as a machinist. I work in a shipyard which builds submarines and aircraft carriers so I get to see the results of alot of science and engineering...including the nuclear end of this science. Lots to see and learn in this field ..it never ends as new equipment and designs come on line.

One other thing...I am about a mile down the road from NASA Langley Research Center. Lots of scientific types around here. Lots of moon rocks here too. Plenty of retired science and engineer types in this area. Some intresting storys from some of them.

Thanks for your post,
Orangetom

i just have to say this
the average american is a complete idiot
the average canadian is a complete idiot
the average brit is a complete idiot
the average citizen of portugal is a complete idiot
the average spaniard is a complete idiot
the average bangladeshi is a complete idiot
the average chinese is a comlete idiot
the average australian is a complete idiot...

what i'm trying to say is, the average human being, is a complete idiot
i'm not saying that they don't have a lot of knowledge
but being knowledgable and being not stupid are two completely different things

madnessinmysoul- the point of the vid and what people say is that america is supposed to be an educated society, and world police, but alot do not even know where austrailia is.

your arrogance on the world stage brings these things and jokes to your country.

Gee, maybe all countries have...less than educated or smart people.

Could that even be possible? I mean, the United States has the most culturally and religiously and racially and academically diverse population the planet has ever seen. With that...far fetched I know...could we also have the most diverse intelligence spectrum as well?

It's a conspiracy. All corners of The World send their intellectual rejects here. There's nothing our psy-ops can't handle.

Seriously though, if I were to spend a month inside only watching the worst of US television (network news at the top of the list) and consuming nothing culturally other than mass-media pop culture junk and corporate brainwash, I think I'd kill myself since the whole of American humanity would seem on a downward spiral of stupidity. There is no future for you. No future for me.

But I do go outside. And I talk to ACTUAL people, young and old, and recognize actual acts of intelligence and humanity and creativity all around from born Americans and "new" Americans from basically EVERYWHERE. (The emotional musical score goes here...and the crescendo too.)

Don't be deceived by the contagious disease of sweeping and over-reaching generalizations and hyperbole. That's what THEY all want US to believe. Don't buy what THEY're selling. Tell THEM to stuff it.

The Old Dog's new tricks aren't new enough anymore. The Emperor's new clothes might have new labels and new names but they are just and still parts of the same old tired uniform that they always were.

Dumb today, smart tomorrow. Here today, gone tomorrow. It's all smoke and mirrors, torn down and built back up seemingly new and improved, to trick us into believing and seeing ourselves and everyone else through their lying funhouse mirrors paid for by greed and delusional self-gratification.


[edit on 16-2-2007 by 2nd Hand Thoughts]

Orangetom and ironJ,

You misread what I was trying to say. I know I am no eloquent writer... So I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I just get the feeling after reading this thread that some people expect Americans to be smarter than everyone else in the world. This is not the case at all...

And about the science being boring... I was merely trying to show that in a a social setting science is a bore. I would be bored if I was planning on going out to socialize with friends... Have a few beers... And we talked about physics for instance. Maybe this is not the case for everyone. But in my opinion it would be the majority.

Now, because some people are interested in other things besides physics... Say they are interested in sports and can tell you "ANYTHING" about any sport... Are they not as smart as the person interested in physics because the sports knowledge is... less... needed, I guess, than the physics?

As far as the sailing goes orangetom,

I have been taking it easy and just floating around the Great Lakes lately. Taking some time off and attending some college classes. Taking my sweet ass time getting a degree. The women that work on the boats... What can I say... They are a special breed let me tell ya!

No room on the boats for the lollypop, lipstick, happy go lucky gals. I know I may sound a bit sexist to some of you by saying this. But there are some jobs that men just seem to be able to do better. Working as a merchant sailor is one of them. I know, I know, I know there are some women that can handle the job... But as a whole... Not too many women can handle it.

I too am not a eloquent writer. No problem here with this as long as one can get the concept across from one to another. I too find science boring in a social setting unless it is some facet of which I have a particular intrest. I dont like NASCAR racing on the boob tube. No intrest in it. I do however recognize that much of the science and technology which makes our cars run better, safer, and more effecient has come from racing designs. I am the kind of nerd who is more intrested in what is going on in the pits or the sheds during, before, and after the race than what is going on down at the track.

Agree Lost Sailor that there are some jobs for which men just seem to do better. As a matter of fact I know so. Most of the women I know are not intrested at all in the types of jobs I know men can do better and as a career. Does this in fact make men better people..no I dont think so. It just makes these men very different from most women.

In like manner I think there are some jobs women can do better and with more patience than men. Likewise this does not make them better. Just different.

It is just that in your type of job...being isolated for long periods of time you dont find many women trying out for that work as a career. Away from many of the conveniences of life which so many takefor granted, away from the regular social contacts, etc etc is not what many women concider civilization today.

To be fair or level the field...to my knowlege this is true of many of the men today. They too would not be trying out to take your job. Mine either.
THey think and analyze/value like women. To much hardship,inconvenience, and deprivation is not for them. I have many times beein in situations where I have needed someone else on the job to watch my back. I tell the boss man I dont want one of these types on my job. No use for them. No respect for them either. Air heads!!

To be fair once again I have found a few women who could do this ..watch my back on a particularly sticky/difficult job with serious safety considerations involved. They have done very well. I can respect a woman like this...the non air headed type. Working in tanks or confined spaces is an example of this type of work. Very dangerous when things go wrong.

No I dont think you are being sexist at all. Just stating the facts of which you know on intimate terms as do I. In the arenas in which we make our livings there is no wiggle room or time/consideration for the social niceties which many take for granted as normal in the so called civilized world. You dont mix these lines or conditions when your hind parts are on the line. You want people around you whom know their jobs well and competently..male and female. Not lightweights. That is not sexist..it is the facts. When the going gets rough you want people around you who can get going...not sit on their behinds and watch others take care of things.
These kinds of people drive me up a wall. Most people do not want to be in this kind of arena as a career.

Oh..on the other side of your post..I find sports and sports data very boring. Not intrested in it at all. Now a fishing program on the boob tube..I can handle as I like fishing..... but football, basketball,baseball, or soccer...no intrest in it. More boring than science. But thats just me. Nerdy like this I am.

I dont find that many Americans anymore who understand this kind of logic or can relate to it. Their experiences, education, and knowlege come from the boob tube..second hand...which is why it is so easy for people like in the video on this thread to get away with such. No competition or people out here with experiences to the contrary.
Geography and History are very poorly taught subjects anymore in schools. I believe this is deliberate. What we call today dumbing down.
It shows in interviews like this though I wonder how much editing was done to get the effect they desired.

Gotta go now,
Thanks for your post,
Orangetom

Oh my this video just proves the entire earth is superior to the USA.


ps: Thanks for making my sneakers.

Originally posted by Lysergic
Oh my this video just proves the entire earth is superior to the USA.


ps: Thanks for making my sneakers.

Funny how you say that and yet every country earth begs for scraps from our table.

Sarcasm is lost on the Internets.

I tend not to put much stock in the intelligence of most Americans for much.

I can certainly make the claim that I wont be putting stock in most of the

"Entire World" for anything. This world has never had American intrests in stock. I dont feel beholden to the world for anything but trouble.


Thanks,
Orangetom