To John Lear-Existence of the Dulce Facility

you guys made him leave now didn't you?

way to go..

Originally posted by Netami
you guys made him leave now didn't you?

way to go..

i think you're right Netami.
This wasnt the best way of approaching.
Damnit..its all because we've had serval ppl who joked around with their own made up stories here!
And thats not good for our convidence.

yeah and i didn't want to post anything until he said everything..grrr..

Yeah, this i could've seen this coming from the start.
Mabey ive said some wrong things too? I dont know for sure what exactly offended him there.

greetz

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
but for now lets stick to the one verifiable peice of evidence in his claim :
the vent cluster . where is it ????????????????????

IGNORANT_APE! Nice to hear from you! I thought that the 15 seconds of fame I generously gave to you on the Geoge Noory show I would have received at least an acknowledgement if not an all out thank you. Its not like in the rest of your lifetime your name will ever reach 14 million people.

And don't try to use the excuse "I don't listen to that show John!" We all know that not only do you listen, particularly when I'm on, but you also probably take notes. I'll just assume the oversight is due to your usual bad manners.

But the reason I am posting to you here is that I am meeting with 2 persons involved in the Dulce story over the next few weeks. One claims to have some pictures. I look forward to these meetings but I doubt, even if I were able to produce a picture or co-ordinates of a vent cluster that they would be acceptable as proof that Dulce existed.

But its there.

Originally posted by Airyphyla
Yeah, this i could've seen this coming from the start.
Mabey ive said some wrong things too? I dont know for sure what exactly offended him there.greetz

I'll ask him at lunch today.

Oh dear, another Dulce nut has run off without giving any proof of his claims. That has never happened before.

Come on guys, why do you believe that ever new poster is telling the truth without any evidence?

The guy made claims, some people asked him simple questions about it and he had a CAPS LOCK rant as if people were being rude to him. All he had to do was answer the questions and he would instantly have got the respect he wanted. Unfortunately he couldn't answer them, what does that say to you?

Originally posted by gfad
Oh dear, another Dulce nut has run off without giving any proof of his claims. That has never happened before.

Come on guys, why do you believe that ever new poster is telling the truth without any evidence?

The guy made claims, some people asked him simple questions about it and he had a CAPS LOCK rant as if people were being rude to him. All he had to do was answer the questions and he would instantly have got the respect he wanted. Unfortunately he couldn't answer them, what does that say to you?

I will tell him at lunch about the cap issue. As far as the question he was asked he could probably answer them but was not likely to in this hostile and very bad mannered thread.

Sorry John can you tell us which posts you find to be bad-mannnered, at least the ones before AlanP went caps-lock on us.

I can't see any that were rude. Just members asking genuine and valid questions.

Originally posted by gfad
Sorry John can you tell us which posts you find to be bad-mannnered, at least the ones before AlanP went caps-lock on us.

I can't see any that were rude. Just members asking genuine and valid questions.

You have to understand that new guys aren't aware of the ATS Dulce Investigative Committee requirements for anything said about Dulce which include but are not limited to the below listed items:

1. Color photos
2. GPS coordinates to 1000th of an second
3. Notarized statement accompanied by DD-214
4. Video of all members of the JCS, each verifying statement
5. Original and all subsequent plans and modifications to facility
6. Guided tour for ATSDIC particularly to Nightmare Hall.
7. Map provided by DMA of area and all known and secret entrances
and roads leading to and out of the Dulce facility.

Cut him a little slack for the time being.

Because Dulce is there.

Well we are we supposed to do if we can't ask questions of people making crazy claims? Do we just assume they are telling the truth, believe them with no proof or even the skantest piece of evidence?

The motto here is to deny ignorance.

The only way we can do that is to ask questions which are appropriate to the situation and ask for at least SOME evidence to support their claims.

Taken from the interview with a Dulce Security Officer....

Q -- Is there proof available that could confirm the allegations of the underground base, or are we just supposed to believe you?


A -- Many people have asked that one. No, I don't expect people to believe with blind faith, there is tangible proof that has been seen, felt or inspected by quite a few folks. I'm in no position to go on a lecture circuit to explain to every person on a one-to-one basis. I am trying to stay alive. All I can do is state again, that Dulce is a SECRET FACILITY. They work HARD to make sure nobody can find the place. If everyone could easily find it, it wouldn't be a SECRET facility. I've explained the extreme security methods they use. There is other proof available. There are five sets of copies in five different boxes in five different locations that hold complete proof of every thing I have tried to explain. Here is a list of contents of each box (delivered into the safe-keeping of five individuals known only to Thomas Castello and to the individual recipients - Branton): (A) 27 sheets of 8 x 10 photographs of Aliens, creatures, cages and vats. (B) One silent candid video tape, begins on the computer banks, shows the vats, multi shots of Nightmare Hall, two shots of Greys, one shot of the Terminal showing sign saying 'To Los Alamos' and about thirty seconds of the Shuttle train arriving. (C) 25 pages of diagrams, chemical formulas and schematics of alien equipment. (D) A copy of the new treaty complete with signatures. (E) 2 pages of original Alien documents signed by Ronald Reagan [as governor of California], each page includes Reagan's signature.


The ORIGINAL set mentioned above is sealed in one piece oxygen free heavy plastic box. That set includes: (A) 27 sheets of 8 x 10 WITH original negatives (B) The video tape, AND the original micro film, from which the video tape was copied. (C) The 25 original pages of diagrams [with notations], formulas, alien equipment schematics plus the schematics for the Flash Gun and MY Flash Gun. (D) The treaty with Reagan's signature plus seven other political signatures and four Alien signatures. The working Flash Gun in that box is an extremely dangerous weapon. In the wrong hands, there is no limit on the danger it could inflict.

www.subversiveelement.com...

John - have you seen any of this stuff first hand, or know anyone who has? Do you think it will ever be presented again or found by anyone?

I want so badly to believe that Dulce Base exists, I'd just love to see some of the items mentioned above.

Originally posted by gfad
Well we are we supposed to do if we can't ask questions of people making crazy claims?

gfad, let me respectfullly caution you and your choice of words which is exactly what I was talking about when I said 'rude'. I don't consider the Dulce story a 'crazy' story. I consider it a true story. But whether its true or not, the story does not deserved to be called 'crazy'. I would prefer you use the words 'unsubstantiated' or 'alleged'. That would be more in keeping with the diplomacy of investigation that is expected here on ATS. Thanks.

Ok thats where our opinions differ John, as Im sure you know, but let me ask you again:

Well we are we supposed to do if we can't ask questions of people making unsubstantiated claims? Do we just assume they are telling the truth, believe them with no proof or even the skantest piece of evidence?

The motto here is to deny ignorance.

The only way we can do that is to ask questions which are appropriate to the situation and ask for at least SOME evidence to support their claims.

For what it's worth there's a video interview with Gordon Novel who claims to have searched extensively for a base at Dulce. Here's his opinion on the existence of a base at Dulce...

"Its pure unadulterated bs. There's no underground base at Dulce."

You can watch the video interview for yourself if you'd like. There's a multitude of other items discussed in the hour plus interview.

Originally posted by gfad
Ok thats where our opinions differ John, as Im sure you know, but let me ask you again:

Well we are we supposed to do if we can't ask questions of people making unsubstantiated claims? Do we just assume they are telling the truth, believe them with no proof or even the skantest piece of evidence?

The motto here is to deny ignorance.

The only way we can do that is to ask questions which are appropriate to the situation and ask for at least SOME evidence to support their claims.

gfad, please repost where I said you couldn't ask questions. I can't find it. Thanks.

AlanP, Please don't stop posting on account of the rude skeptics who need the proof to slap them in the face before they believe. There are many of us here with open minds that would really like to hear what you have to say.

john lear -

can you see my posts or do you have me on ignore?

I've asked a couple of "civil" questions about Dulce recently and gotten no reply.

If you're ignoring me, I don't know why, maybe you just missed the questions? one is in this thread.... the other is in another thread, if you want to see it, I'll u2u you the link. ( think I did once though... )

Originally posted by elevatedone
John - have you seen any of this stuff first hand, or know anyone who has? Do you think it will ever be presented again or found by anyone?

I want so badly to believe that Dulce Base exists, I'd just love to see some of the items mentioned above.

Elevatedone sorry I didn't answer right away. The answer to this question was answered in one or more of the original Dulce threads. My involvement with Dulce goes back to the Crestone UFO conference in I think 1987 where Tom Adams handed my a note he received from a person in Las Vegas that knew about Dulce.

I good write a book about the twists and turns since getting that note and meeting that person. Climbing mountains in search of that box near Dolan Springs, AZ., trying to get a 2 wheel drive vehicle up Archuletta Mountain in the dead of winter at night in snow and ice, driving with Gabe Valdez for 8 hours through the mountains, spending 2 days with Paul Bennewitz, meeting a guy that actually worked at Dulce and who told me he knew it as Section D.

No. We are not going to able to prove it exists.

But its there.

John, you wrote in this thread:

I think Dulce exists. I think its real. I think its there.

But yet, in another thread on Dulce, you wrote:

No. I'm saying that Dulce (Joint US/Alien underground base) exists. Deal with it. Thanks.

Dulce comment 1

donk_316, let me respectfully suggest that your statement "...and the tales regarding the Dulce base are widely regarded as urban legends...." should be completed: ..."by the ignorant and uninformed." Thanks for your post.

Dulce comment 2

Yeah, well...nice try donk_316 but no cigar. No, you post what you will accept as proof Dulce exists. I am not going to jump through endless hoops to prove something I already know exists.

Dulce comment 3

So which is it John? Do you "think" Dulce exists, or do you "know" it exists? Thanks.