Disclosure? From who?

Reading recent accounts from various contactees and believers of contactees, I have come to a few points of conjecture I would like to relay and hopefully start dialouge on with OPEN MINDED PEOPLE.

I would like to stress the fact that I am looking for OPEN MINDED PEOPLE, not people parading as open minded that are either so far gone either way that they cannot fathom the idea that they could be wrong. I would never deny those that are adamant about their beliefs, of course, just pointing out that my target audience in this thread are those that are objective enough to still question what they think they know.

I would like to begin by reiterating a point I made in another thread. Can we be so sure that NASA and the government is lying and not merely reporting what they believe to be the truth? In my mind, it is easier to believe that Aliens are giving humans false memories than it is to believe in a VERY vast conspiracy to keep the information secret.

Regardless of the reasons, many are convinced that NASA is withholding information from them and that Full Disclosure should be given so we can understand the truth of aliens on our planet. Although, as we have seen, NASA is not forthcoming with this information, whether it is by their own choice or forces beyond their control.

Wouldn't the MOST obvious source of information about aliens be from contactees? They would have a wealth of information that could blow the hood off the entire area of alien & ufo research! And if FULL DISCLOSURE is repeatedly asked for by those that want the real deal on UFOs, why isn't FULL DISCLOSURE asked for by those being contacted?

A lot of the same people that dismiss NASA without thought hold special sanctity for those that are contacted, and believe and defend them without a thought as to the validity of the story. Many contactees are allowed to relate portions of their story and withhold other portions saying things like 'the aliens wont like me talking' or 'the truth of it would make you crap your pants'.

Why are contactees allowed the benefit of keeping information from the general public because it is the aliens' will, when NASA is allegedly keping the same information away for the same reasons and we demonize them?

Should we not participate in the society of 'ufo enthusiasts' (a term which encompasses both believer's and nonbelievers unifying us by interest instead of dividing us by beliefs) by demanding FULL DISCLOSURE by anyone claiming to have contact with aliens? Why would someone hold back info? Evidence? Maybe even PROOF? Why would someone go so far out to tell SOMEONE of the story without telling it ALL?

In my opinion, someone only telling a portion of their contact story is no better than the NASA people claim is only telling part of the same story.

Thoughts?

[edit on 19-1-2007 by HankMcCoy]

Gee Hank, I would have thought all the folks who have come to adore your endless trolling of their respective threads would have jumped right on board with this thread.

I'll watch with immense pleasure this thread unfold or roll up. Your perpetual negativity may preclude others from engaging in this philisophical subject you've created.

I know you haven't seen me post before and may be curious why I would pick on good ole' Hank. Well Hankie, in my opinion if you were just half as wonderful as you thought you were you'd probably be Christ himself.

Get over yourself Hank.

Becker

Mod Note: Aliens & UFO’s Forum Posting Conduct – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 19-1-2007 by DontTreadOnMe]

Well, a point I've made on other threads, that Dr. Greer has spoken of when he said Aliens are all of the above, which is time travelers, from other worlds, and also living here, then how would we expect to have any real proof?

If they can zap in and out of time and events, have a presence here, and according to AA, even interact with you in your dreams and hypnotic states, well, then we are pretty much par for the course I think. As far as NASA, I've seen far too many things that they have faked to take them seriously. If the government was in complete control over the ET happenings, there would be no sightings, crop circles, abductions, etc., as you could rest assured that would not be in our agreement.

The only disclosure that will ever happen is one of two things. 1) Someone comes forward with pieces of a craft, or the entire craft, or an alien, etc. or 2) An alien lifeform lands and says "We come in peace" broadcast live on CNN.

As far as aliens you don't need to convince me that they exist, I know they do. In fact, there is really no need to convince anyone that they exist. I think that when it's time, it's time. Many people on this site are so information crazy that they create worthless hypothetical threads, make up stories, log in as new users and create tales, then answer themselves under their other log in, and it goes on and on. You have to come to terms that you may never know the truth, then and only then can you really be objective regarding this and other subjects.

Hank,
this point you raised is very valid.

"I would like to begin by reiterating a point I made in another thread. Can we be so sure that NASA and the government is lying and not merely reporting what they believe to be the truth? In my mind, it is easier to believe that Aliens are giving humans false memories than it is to believe in a VERY vast conspiracy to keep the information secret."

I hold the belief that the governments of the world do not know every thing that is going on. They are like us, only they have slightly more information, and pictures ect from variouse satellites / aircraft ect. They do not know what is happening, so to tell only a 'part' of it would cause alot more harm than good, because, if they disclosed all the knew, but not every thing, people would still believe that they were ' hiding' some thing.just look at nasa moon /mars/ jupiter pictures that have bits missing and deleted.. They are hiding some thing, and yet, im sure they them selves do not know 'what it is' they are hiding, just that it needs to remain hidden.

Having said that, i do actually think that there is a very small, maybe 200 people at max, cabale of people who know every thing, and i mean every thing. Times, dates, places, systems, power sources, the lot, and I think that these people will eliminate any one who goes against them or their secrecy.

this is why i think that we will never get full disclosure - It is too powerful a secret, a secret that keeps those who know untouchable by rivals and / or disclosure advocates.

Thats just my two pence worth to your thread.

Because even if there are contactees (which I doubt), they aren't able to prove what that have experienced or been told.

Originally posted by DarkSide
Because even if there are contactees (which I doubt), they aren't able to prove what that have experienced or been told.

Many of the ones I have seen posting claim to have evidence of their experiences, but simply wont share it, for whatever reason. Most of the evidence is forgein information regarding provable phenominon.

Should the ones that claim to have evidence be told to put it up? Why is THEIR denial to fully Disclose any different from NASA's?

you ever consider that nasa, does not run the secret space service. does not navy run area 51. ONI or something.

Originally posted by HankMcCoyMany of the ones I have seen posting claim to have evidence of their experiences, but simply wont share it

Anyone can claim anything, backing up these claims is another story.

There´s a couple of things that comes to my mind. Honestly, while i to a large extent find some of the material posted by members such as John Lear credible i´m still completly puzzled as to how it is possible to silence such a vast amount of people as those working for at/for NASA. Seriously, launching the shuttle must be like a walk in the park compared. This thing should be pouring with leaks all over!

On the other hand, sleeper says that "disclosure happens on a one to one basis". One of the things why i find sleepers material both credible and interesting is because it rings a bell inside me on a personal level giving me a "feeling" that this lines up. Same feeling you get when someone tells you that jumping off a plane at high altitude will be fatal for you. It just sounds perfectly "right". You know it is right even tho no written documentation is presented before you.

Perhaps we need to rethink this entire proof/evidence topic. Sure enough, NASA airbrushing images should not prove too hard to proof. However alien existence on earth might prove harder and so forth we could be face with having to use to vastly different term of evidence/proof simply because the nature of it is out of the ballpark sort of speak.

If someone asked me today to document and prove me and my girlfriends love to each other, would i be able to provide evidence convincing a third party person that our feelings are genuine? No, of course not and yet i KNOW what i feel just like she does. Although i could make a video (blurry of course) and write documents as well as providing scientific reports, witness statments of people experiencing similar feelings etc etc etc it would still not be a shred of evidence about what is beeing felt inside me.

I´d say the whole issue needs to be seen with a fresh set of eyes.

[edit on 19-1-2007 by tomra]

Originally posted by DarkSide
Anyone can claim anything, backing up these claims is another story.

Backing up their claims, or in most cases NOT doing so doesn't stop them from spreading stories that very well could be equally as suspect as NASA's/The Government's.

People do not trust NASA because they feel that NASA is holding back from them. How can people trust a contactee that admitedly holds back information?

----------


We see a lot of claims being made, and if this was merely a forum to share your contact stories, that's one thing. Isn't this forum a place to go so that we can get to the bottom of what might be going on.

Shouldn't Full Disclosure be the rule and not the exception?

In my personal opinion, even the fierest supporter and believer of "Contactee" fairy tales knows, in the back of his heart, that proof will never be forwarded. Contactees ask for "faith" in their "belief system", as in religion. That's why believers will never ask for any proof (or common sense, as a matter of fact). They know they will receive none, and they are happy to receive whatever crumbles their particular messiah decides to throw at them.

Now, most of these persons will also accuse NASA (and all other institutions in this planet) of witholding information, and demand disclosure. Because, also in the back of their heart, they would give more credence to the information of such institutions than to any abduction tale.

All in all, pretty sad state of affairs for what's left of ufology.

reminds me of that hacker that the americans want to put in jail, just watched his vid on youtube, and i was surprised to see him saying he may of left something back, and that he holds some cards. i can tell him, with these geezers you do not hold anything, they are seriously nasty people and if you do something to them, they have no morals or anything, if they want to get you, they get you.

if i was that hacker, i would of just told everything out, because he may not get any chance in the future, if they get what they want.

i wonder does what he supposedly found on there computers, satisfy hank as proof, or what does he think of that case.

when you think people everyday probably do what he did, it probably took them a while to catch up with him, just waiting to see what he was going to do with whatever info he got.

The real difference is that contactees, as far as I know, are never left with any sort of convincing physical evidence of alien visitation. It's not like they claim to have pieces of alien craft or anything. Therefore, disclosure through contactees simply can't happen, because no one is going to be convinced through a bunch of extraordinary stories.

On the other hand, NASA and other government agencies supposedly have concrete proof, physical or otherwise, that aliens are visiting our planet, so of course they are the only ones that can bring about full disclosure. However, I find it hard to believe that primarily one government can and would withhold such a staggering truth from the entire world -- but that's just my opinion.

Originally posted by andy1033
i wonder does what he supposedly found on there computers, satisfy hank as proof, or what does he think of that case.

I really don't want to make this about individual cases, or even what I myself consider 'proof'. I will u2u you my opinion of that case, just so you don't think I am dodging.

EDIT:

Same thing to tomra. I don't want to turn this into a discussion about johnlear or sleeper. I have a lot fo respect for johnlear and don't really want to drag him into a thread like this unless he comes willingly.

I hope you understand.

[edit on 19-1-2007 by HankMcCoy]

If a government holds information about aliens that are more advanced than us and are visiting earth is it in their, and our interest to disclose it?

Full disclosure would probably cause social unrest, street violence etc. New religious sects, etc, hell there are already lots of people on this forum alone that already believe that aliens are demons and are a sign of a coming apocalypse, a belief that reminds of me of how people thought comets were omens of doom back in the middle ages history repeats as they say

[edit on 19-1-2007 by DarkSide]

you are talking about evidence, but what is evidence3 of an alien craft. if the craft is in our 3d reality than surely it would be made up of the elements that exist, may have some weird combinations, but would still just be elements that exist in our relaity.

like phil schneider may or may not have evidence of alien metals, but if we tested them they would just be elements, or combination of elements that we know of. he talked of some unusual materials, but humans will always say, that humans could in theory make them.

so what is evidence, evidence is nothing but what we want to see with our eyes, you lot just want o see one land, and you say that may be proof, but today and in the future mankind will have the capability to manipulate your minds, so we could all be viewing holograms in the future, of these things.

with aliens there is no such thing as evidence, because in our reality everything will be made up of elemenst and we must surely know alot of them by now.

by the way about that hacker, i am not saying i believe him, i am just stating a case to see what hank thought about it.

[edit on 19-1-2007 by andy1033]

Originally posted by Postal76
The real difference is that contactees, as far as I know, are never left with any sort of convincing physical evidence of alien visitation. It's not like they claim to have pieces of alien craft or anything. Therefore, disclosure through contactees simply can't happen, because no one is going to be convinced through a bunch of extraordinary stories.

Some claim to have daily contact with aliens and have information outside what normal humans have and are not ALLOWED to discuss it. What would people consider a contactee that says that they have information that would prove/disprove their story but can't Disclose it because the aliens said not to? It makes me wonder.

Originally posted by andy1033
with aliens there is no such thing as evidence, because in our reality everything will be made up of elemenst and we must surely know alot of them by now.

Most people think of evidence as something physical, but surely evidence can be something informational, right? I am not even going to begin to guess what types of information a contactee could obtain while in contact with aliens every day, but surely.. eventually.. SOMEONE would think to get information that can be proven as true.

Originally posted by DarkSide
If a government holds information about aliens that are more advanced than us and are visiting earth is it in their, and our interest to disclose it?

Full disclosure would probably cause social unrest, street violence etc. New religious sects, etc, hell there are already lots of people on this forum alone that already believe that aliens are demons and are a sign of a coming apocalypse, a belief that reminds of me of how people thought comets were omens of doom back in the middle ages

history repeats as they say

[edit on 19-1-2007 by DarkSide]

I don't think full disclosure would cause wide scale violence or riots. Why would it, other than the fact that a government has been lying to its people for so long? Most *intelligent* people already think that there is probably life elsewhere in the universe.

Originally posted by HankMcCoy
EDIT:

Same thing to tomra. I don't want to turn this into a discussion about johnlear or sleeper. I have a lot fo respect for johnlear and don't really want to drag him into a thread like this unless he comes willingly.

I hope you understand.

[edit on 19-1-2007 by HankMcCoy]

Perfectly, as a matter of fact i realize i did a mistake by mentioning names as the thread is more of a general topic nature. Feel free to comment on the last two paragraphs if you so wish.