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Disclosure? From who?

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posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by HankMcCoy
Some claim to have daily contact with aliens and have information outside what normal humans have and are not ALLOWED to discuss it. What would people consider a contactee that says that they have information that would prove/disprove their story but can't Disclose it because the aliens said not to? It makes me wonder.


I would consider such a person to be lying. To me, saying, "Oh, well I COULD tell you but the aliens said not to" just sounds like a lazy attempt to cover the fact that there isn't any evidence to substantiate the story because it didn't happen.




posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 03:50 PM
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Postal76, i dont see tolerance anywhere in this world, why if we cannot live together do you think we would want aliens walking down our streets.

i have worked with what people would call intelligent people, but they are the biggest bigots you can get, how does someone being intelligent make them more tolerant to others, just watch how judges treat races they do not like, or how doctors treat peoples they do not like.

this world is full of intollerance, i do not know where this idea that humans could accept things, other than they got now, would be acceptable to them.

disclosure will never come without total mind control of every one on this planet, thats the only way its going to come, but we will not be told the truth.



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 03:57 PM
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Hank, I understand where you are coming from, however I believe we are the problem - because a persons word no longer holds any value - and our society is to blame, this proof most seek will never be forth coming and around and round we go.

You seek OPEN MINDED people, most of those people are now bored with the rhetorical BS and hypotheticals and wasted energy. (as someone else mentioned earlier)

Lets face it, how many thousands of pages of forums, sites etc do you have to read b4 one makes his/hers mind up on the subject matter.!!! Seriously ask your self that.

The reason I ask, because of late the amount of info - Moon Anomalies and the likes has led me to believe 2 things. (we all know how much info is out there... )

1. Diversion tactics at play and nothing is happening.
2. Its really happening, sit back and watch it unfold.

I know what I have chosen to believe.



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by tomra
If someone asked me today to document and prove me and my girlfriends love to each other, would i be able to provide evidence convincing a third party person that our feelings are genuine? No, of course not and yet i KNOW what i feel just like she does.


Yeah, I can see where you are going with this. Esoteric concepts like LOVE cannot even be properly DEFINED let alone proven. Are aliens as elusive to define as love? Perhaps that is part of the problem. Are we looking for answers about.. Demons? Beings from other planets? Dimensions? Beings from this dimension that reside on a different physical plane of existence made out of energy?

Is asking for information about something that cannot even be DEFINED part of the problem of asking for Disclosure from contactees?

Great points, tomra.



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 05:24 PM
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Hank,
I respect and heartfully thank you for this thread.

If, tomorrow, our government opened it's vaults and said "Open house,
come one, come all. See what we know", there would be those saying,
they took all the "disclosure" stuff out, first.

On the other hand, what we get from contactee's are their promise that
"something" is going to happen soon. Trust me. Well, we get some art
depicting either alien ships, planetary systems or something so obscure
Dali would retch.

Either way, those of us on the fence are left empty-handed.

I truly believe we will see disclosure of some sort from the government,
proof that (either way) will be tangible.

From the contactee's, if they are actually having experiences, I agree with you. They MUST have something tangible they can share. The "It'll upset
the Grey that contacts me" is getting quite stale.

Again, thanks for another great thread,
Lex



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by Lexion
From the contactee's, if they are actually having experiences, I agree with you. They MUST have something tangible they can share. The "It'll upset
the Grey that contacts me" is getting quite stale.


Well, to be fair to the contactees, not ALL contactees claim to have information that the aliens dont want them to share, but I get what you are saying there, and I agree.

If people have been being abducted for at least 50 years (the first reported cases come 50-60 years ago) someone HAD to have gotten SOME kind of evidence. (Again, to be fair though, some DO furnish proof in the form of metal under the skin and things of that nature.)

These same people that have little evidence over 50 years also point at LOADS of evidence that states the government is lying about ufos. What I dont understand is the reliance on evidence to prove the government is LYING, but the reluctance to share any information that might prove the contactee is telling the truth.



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 06:14 PM
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Many of these contactees attribute mind-boggling abilities to the ET visitors.

O.K....have one place a palm tree at the foot of my bed some night; and forecast the occurrence.

I will shut the hell up and accept everything they say as absolute gospel.



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 09:26 PM
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Hank, as much as it pains me to do so, I agree with everything you've said here.
WATS for the most sensible post I've read in a while. I think i'm slowly slipping over to the darkside, mostly out of annoyance of reading so much utter crap.



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 09:28 PM
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You have voted HankMcCoy for the Way Above Top Secret award.


You, Hank, receive the first and only WATS I can ever re-member giving.
Continue your truthfull patriotics in the face of speculation and lies and do Not ever fold =) Way to go.

There appear to Be some posters on ATS that know Every thing there is to Not know. Quite astounding

Mixing half truths in with fairy tales will only convince the willing, and that, to me, is considered a crime against Humanity and a crime against morality

[edit on 19-1-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 09:35 PM
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I think part of the problem is that contactees are usually "normal everyday folk" like farmers, shop owners etc. Its only when contactees or people who see UFOs have a "credible job" like military personell, presidents, doctors, police etc its perceived with more credibility.

If Greys decide for whatever reason to keep showing themselves to normal everyday people, then there will never be "evidence" to satisfy the majority of people. Most will think this person is lying for attention, to be famous, for money (if they decide to write a book,etc)

How much credence would you give to say an unemployed person having a visit from a grey or seeing a UFO? I dont know why occupation has anything to do with it, but for some reason a lot of people seem to think that a) not only must there be physical proof but b) the person must also have a "suitable" occupation as well, or they are dubious.

People have to realise that there is only a book (the bible) and eyewitness accounts with a little bit of geographical evidence to back up the story that Jesus really lived/existed and walked the earth.

Sometimes, you have to settle for minimal "proof" if all things point to probability. My 2 cents.



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 09:42 PM
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Originally posted by Flighty
I think part of the problem is that contactees are usually "normal everyday folk" like farmers, shop owners etc. Its only when contactees or people who see UFOs have a "credible job" like military personell, presidents, doctors, police etc its perceived with more credibility.



Good point.

The 'normal everyday folk' are disbelieved and ridiculed due to their lack of authority and social standing while those contactees with authority are silenced by the very organizations which provide that authority.

in other words...a Catch 22
```````````````
spelling edit

[edit on 19/1/07 by masqua]



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 09:46 PM
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Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
There appear to Be some posters on ATS that know Every thing there is to Not know. Quite astounding

Mixing half truths in with fairy tales will only convince the willing, and that, to me, is considered a crime against Humanity and a crime against morality


I am glad you brought that up. I have been wrestling with trying to make a point like that, but didn't understand how to go about doing it.

It is okay not to have all the answers. I would be a huge chump and a hypocrit if I demanded answers from someone that told me they didn't have them to give! If more contactees simply said "I don't know" instead of guessing or possibly lying about aliens not wanting them to talk, I think it would go a long way in seperating the truth from the fiction.

Great point, LOVE.



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 09:50 PM
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Originally posted by Flighty

I think part of the problem is that contactees are usually "normal everyday folk" like farmers, shop owners etc. Its only when contactees or people who see UFOs have a "credible job" like military personell, presidents, doctors, police etc its perceived with more credibility.


Question : How does status correlate to a presence of evidence?

Why is it that evidence is based on popularity?

Evidence is based on evidence and that is self-evident of the evidential self. If there Exists No evidential truth based on and in accordance with the consistencies of a particular topic's supposed motive then there is No evidence beyond that material, that of which is merely a changing imagination.

Only when the consistencies are true to their expectations is when there is a Being of No-thing wrong and No-thing correct with the imagination, and this comes only as a result of having No expectations

[edit on 19-1-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 09:54 PM
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Originally posted by masqua
The 'normal everyday folk' are disbelieved and ridiculed due to their lack of authority and social standing while those contactees with authority are silenced by the very organizations which provide that authority.

in other words...a Catch 22


But here, on a faceless forum like ATS, we all start off with a blank slate. I will concede that the those lacking in syntax and spelling often get brushed off, but other than that people can be whatever they want to be or nothing more than what they claim.

Case in point, I have never stated my profession on the forum, and though I do not make any claims that sound 'extraordinary' (at least to me anyway) or ask people to suspend belief, I would like to think I have gathered at least a few people that respect my views enough to at least entertain the notions I discuss, if even with a grain of salt.

Although, I do agree with the basic sentiment. Humans like to look down their noses at their lessers.



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 10:30 PM
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The problem is that our current government is so compartmented and full of political BS that there isn't going to be an end anytime soon. Sure its one way of protecting itself, but it also causes a major backup of anything being obtainable. Soo many rule and regulations that do nothing but slow the processes that are already as slow as molasses. Personally I do think they know, but even if there was a "FULL DISCLOSURE" bulletin I'm betting that it would either take years and / or be disapproved. Just like in military chain of command, you send up a request chit for leave its not guarenteed. BTW nice topic.

-Aza



posted on Jan, 20 2007 @ 12:02 AM
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As far as i see it, if someone wants to claim they are a frequent abductee that is fine. I won't dispute the claim.

When they start going past that and attack anyone who doesn't believe then, call them sheep, not ready for the truth etc etc that is where i will step in.

It doesn't take much effort to take criticism onboard and live with it. You should know that by posting such an out-there topic that you are a target. If you are really convinced what you experienced was real then no amount of flak will change that, and it won't bother you.

That is how we weed the decent people and cases from the frauds. That is why i hold such respect for John Lear and Sleeper. They both have such conviction and can deal with comments from both sides of the debate.



posted on Jan, 20 2007 @ 01:47 AM
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Originally posted by fooffstarr



That is how we weed the decent people and cases from the frauds. That is why i hold such respect for John Lear and Sleeper. They both have such conviction and can deal with comments from both sides of the debate.


I diss agree with the quoted text above. It has Been shown that Mr. lear and sleeper meet the standards you presented fitting to a hoaxster. In fact they do attack, ignore, and stretch any un-consistencies in their stories and in their content. On one occasion Mr. lear called the Earth a garbage dump, therefore referring to me, himself, others, and any living entity on the Earth, and the Earth as a living entity itself, as a piece of trash; that behavior is un-fit for anybody and is an insult to the Human species.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Source: Page 16, of thread miss-titled "I'm coming clean on Extraterrestrials"

Here is the thread


originally posted by johnlear

Otherwise I'd be on Saturn and not on this garbage dump


-------------------------------------------------------------------

If what Mr lear and sleeper say is true, then why does johnlear have a diss-claimer as his signature? (he disses Every thing that he claims, unless stated as "fact")

signature
The above is my opinion and is intended to promote discussion. It is not represented as fact unless so stated.


Why can't We Be responsible for Every thing that We say and state?

Where as sleeper's signature states that We are in the world so that the world can change Us.

signature
We are not here to change the world---we are here so that the world can change us


So according to these verbal equations...

World = garbage dump, We exist in it to Be changed. There fore We all Exist merely to Be changed into trash? What a bright future =) (sarcasm) I do Not think a civilization can survive if they are constantly insulting their own civilization.

Do true diss closures require diss claimers if they are in "FACT" the truth?

[edit on 20-1-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]



posted on Jan, 20 2007 @ 02:23 AM
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Well put ^.

I do, however, have varying degrees of leniency on the topic. To me, people can redeem themselves. If they make a mistake or get angry a few times thats understandable, but a constant backlash is what i'm talking about. Members like Alien Agenda and Sons of Man.

I'm not saying i believe what any of them say, because i don't. I'm a skeptic regarding the more 'out-there' issues related to UFOlogy, but it doesn't mean i can't respect the person.



posted on Jan, 20 2007 @ 02:29 AM
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Originally posted by andy1033
Postal76, i dont see tolerance anywhere in this world, why if we cannot live together do you think we would want aliens walking down our streets.

i have worked with what people would call intelligent people, but they are the biggest bigots you can get, how does someone being intelligent make them more tolerant to others, just watch how judges treat races they do not like, or how doctors treat peoples they do not like.

this world is full of intollerance, i do not know where this idea that humans could accept things, other than they got now, would be acceptable to them.

disclosure will never come without total mind control of every one on this planet, thats the only way its going to come, but we will not be told the truth.



True, humans are generally intolerant, but why does that matter? If disclosure ever happens, I imagine it would be a government telling its people that aliens exist and are visiting the planet...and that's it. I don't think aliens would suddenly land and begin "walking down our streets;" this isn't "Alien Nation" we're talking about. So what would intolerant people do, shake their fists at the sky?

Regarding people like John Lear and Sleeper with extraordinary claims: a lot can be learned by the way these people deal with questions and criticism. From what I've read, John Lear responds to skepticism with sarcasm and personal insults, which is NOT indicative of someone who is genuine. On the other hand, "contactee" jritzmann created an excellent thread in which he thoroughly detailed his experiences AND answered almost all questions in a civil, level-headed manner.



posted on Jan, 20 2007 @ 04:27 AM
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They really don't know and are a little secretive just like any government agency. Plus the US legislative branch has made it there mission to squeeze them dry the cash so there not getting what they need. Lets say they had some small proof. If they were to come out and say there's aliens and not be able to prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt, they would be completely screwed. The US government would shut them down, at the bare minimum all top level executives would be replaced. Plus they are apart of the US government who has stated since blue book that there are no aliens no more question. I'd say 60-80% of the population of the world that is literate and has access to a tv or web believes that its possible we are not alone. The rest are just too scared to admit the possibility.



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