Originally posted by conspiracymaster

Bush cited as examples the need to "protect human life and safety against hazardous materials and the need for physical searches specifically authorized by law for foreign intelligence collection."

did you guys read this garbage? dubya claims to be protecting human life, by invading our privacy. time for an election if you ask me!!!

An election? I say it's time for war crime trials state by state.
It's way past impeachment. I wouldn't even know where to begin. What's funny is you have the supporters trying to shout you down yelling, "Why don't you love america and support the troops"

These chuckleheads don't get that most of the troops are ticked off at this administration. The veterans need to rise up in the streets in numbers that are unprecedented and protest right in D.C..


This conflict won't come to a close until the Military directly speaks out in a clear sign for the world to take notice.

Otherwise what the hell are we doing? How many petitions can you have?




[edit on 7-1-2007 by conspiracymaster]

My mail is so boring they'll probably market it and use it for some kinda sleep research program.

"Here read this guys mail..."

"Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..............."

I told you I went to sleep and so did my neighbor, wake up America I am shaking you, The United States Of America wake up!!! How many freedoms have we lost in the last 5 years? Did our forefathers help build and protect this country on how many freedoms we could give away or lose? I think not. You say but times have changed the world situation has changed, but the heart of the people of The United States Of America has not. If all your freedoms were taken away today what would you pay or do to get them back? Think. Rik Riley

We're concentrating on the war and how many more will be shipped to Iraq for more of the same...Democrats should pay close attention and not let this slip by. Do they care? I think not, nor does anyone care about the dying men and women.
Its all games.

What does that mean, "It's something we're going to look into". What is this Murder She Wrote?
Every day the US creates newer, better surveillance. The only difference is now we know about it. This is actually a very scary thought, anyone could be reading my mail, what's next e-mail surveillance, oh that would be bad...

Wow, this one is RIPE for abuse.

How did an earlier member phrase it?....ok; lets say "Muhammad Muhammad Akbar" or "Muhammad Muhammad Al-Jazera" ( ) sends our "good American" (who has done nothing wrong and has nothing to fear) a letter detailing some new and nefarious terrorist plot.

For arguments sake; lets also say that, durring the prior week, elements of law enforcement recieved an anonymous phone call claiming that our "good American" has been "acting strange", or that he/she may be a "sympathiser" of terrorists.

With this tip off; it's noticed that our "good American" has been sent an unusual letter so it is now opened. That's ok because our "good American" has "nothing" to hide, right? I mean; our "good American" hasn't even recieved the letter yet.

If we assume that our enforcement agencies are to actually use their "new powers", then our "good American" would now be arrested (merely for suspicion) as an "enemy combatant". This supposed plot must be properly investigated like all others, should it not?

Now comes the catch. Because of mere suspicion; our "good American" has been arrested/accused as an enemy combatant, and can now be detained indefinitely, without habeas corpus, or access to a lawyer.

How much waterboarding do you think it will take before our diligent investigators truly believe our "good American's" story of innocence (knowing nothing about the letter) when they have the tip-off call, the letter, and who knows what else as evidence in hand?

Personally, I think that our good Americans have the most to fear with this.

I hope none of you have ticked anyone off (especially if they "hold a grudge") cuz this one could get ugly.

[edit on 1/8/07 by redmage]

Originally posted by dgtempe
Do they care? I think not, nor does anyone care about the dying men and women.
Its all games.

That's so not true. There's plenty of people that care. It's just that we can't seem to get heard loudly enough to get anyone to listen to us. As soon as that happens, then maybe we can bring all of our fellow Brothers and Sisters home.

TheBorg

"There is nothing new here," said spokesman Tony Snow. The statement, he said, is "merely a statement of present law and present authorities granted to the president."

if this is really true, why would Bush even bother to even bring it up?

mail can be opened and searched under "exigent circumstances", the way it has been for a while, but those circumstances are broad enough to be interpreted as anything from 9/11 to orange alert.

I just had a random thought that I think remotely applies to this thread or at least this train of thought:


From a view a little further back, its kind of obvious that this is an example of the strings pulled by Really High Ups and even the big B in the white hous, and the vp, are oblivious. This is a further reaching initive, one that these pawns are cohersed into deploying.


Think about it.

One can be pulled over, and found with narcotics, and a cell phone.

If this were a well understood initive, understood by all levels of the game, it would be an obviously easy killed fish in the barrel to collect the numbers off of the domestic detainees phone and scan, archive, and cross reference, initiating the implenation of heavy surveylence. My point is, if every single ant in the US is a desirable target to initiate a surveylence strategy on, then this post arrest (under virtually any circumstance) and data device apprehension could much more efficiently and easily place more likely suspects into this circle of questionable citizenry for a considerably more efficient monitoring strategy.

This hasn't been noticible upon the stories of DUI, or other anti social arrest I have ever looked at.

No conclusion is necessesary here, as my point is easily eluded to. Anyways here it is - We are all guppies in the big ocean of the world, and reading our mail is trivial, because of all of the opportunity to get more valuable info is already overlooked.


Follow up thought:

It is not about your mail. It is a conditioning strategy that has been pointed out here, not about your phone calls, cause honestly, who gives a sh....

It is the conditioning of US citizens to give up what is sacred without a fight, to continue down that path to eventual totalitarianism.


peace

[edit on 9-1-2007 by tha stillz]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I don't have a problem with this measure at this time.

Some people just don't get it do they? You just answered what wyrdone has been saying all this time. AT THIS TIME you might not be a criminal but tomorrow you might be. How hard is this to get through to you people? You can have them search your mail, house, listen to your conversations all you want Grady. But for me and the real patriots of this country who value our freedoms and privacy, we will not stand up for this much longer.

Originally posted by redmage
Now comes the catch. Because of mere suspicion; our "good American" has been arrested/accused as an enemy combatant, and can now be detained indefinitely, without habeas corpus, or access to a lawyer.

How much waterboarding do you think it will take before our diligent investigators truly believe our "good American's" story of innocence (knowing nothing about the letter) when they have the tip-off call, the letter, and who knows what else as evidence in hand?

Personally, I think that our good Americans have the most to fear with this.

I hope none of you have ticked anyone off (especially if they "hold a grudge") cuz this one could get ugly.

[edit on 1/8/07 by redmage]

I have an idea. Let's do this type of thing. I wonder how long this would last if every day the people in congress and other high positions in government started recieving mail about terror plots and such. Would they be subject to this privacy invasion? Anyone want to start a letter writting campaign with me? As long as we don't put our return mail address or leave fingerprints or anything, we wouldn't get caught. But they're probably reading this post now anyway.

Who's with me?

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by redmage
Now comes the catch. Because of mere suspicion; our "good American" has been arrested/accused as an enemy combatant, and can now be detained indefinitely, without habeas corpus, or access to a lawyer.

How much waterboarding do you think it will take before our diligent investigators truly believe our "good American's" story of innocence (knowing nothing about the letter) when they have the tip-off call, the letter, and who knows what else as evidence in hand?

Personally, I think that our good Americans have the most to fear with this.

I hope none of you have ticked anyone off (especially if they "hold a grudge") cuz this one could get ugly.

[edit on 1/8/07 by redmage]

I have an idea. Let's do this type of thing. I wonder how long this would last if every day the people in congress and other high positions in government started recieving mail about terror plots and such. Would they be subject to this privacy invasion? Anyone want to start a letter writting campaign with me? As long as we don't put our return mail address or leave fingerprints or anything, we wouldn't get caught. But they're probably reading this post now anyway.

Who's with me?

LOL im with ya mate, lets do it.

My father was a letter carrier. Dont you think that if the post office is intrested in you from other agencys one of the first people they ask if they are serious is your postman?? They are often looking for patterns in your mail delivery. From whom..to whom..what buisnesses and comparing this with other informations. Some of you would be surprised to know how much your mailman or the guy who fills your mail box at the post office knows about you.

Electronically they can do this with your E-mail...too.

All of this without the first warrant.

This has been done for years and years...before Bush was even president..his dad too. I dont know where some of you have been?? Warrentless search just brings it out in the open. Do some of you actually think they were not going through your mail if they so wanted?? even 30 years ago?? This includes packages which come to you.

I can gaurantee you they can do it even faster with your E-mail.

Thanks,
Orangetom

I'm seeing a lot of talk about America this and America that... but has anyone really Stopped and asked Who Is America?

I think a lot of people forget that Many Americans just recently crossed the border and joined our ranks.

My best friend here is first generation American (his parents crossed the border, he was born here)

Many Americans don't speak or read English (it is not a requirement to here)

Many Americans are fleeing (or their parents fled) situations that are far worse than all the crap going on here now.

Of Course things are BAD here and getting WORSE.

BUT

They fled countries where people were lined up and executed in the streets...

So they don't complain *shrugs*

They don't complain because to them, it ain't alla that bad.

They don't complain because they don't understand the language well enough to know what's going down.

They don't complain because they are Afraid...

And then there are the idiots like ME.

I used to complain Very Loudly. I used to carry the picket sign and voice my opinions and concerns. I used to be more than willing to 'stick it to the man' and say F it to my boss and, in short, Live Free and BE Free...

then I had a child of my own...

most folks may be willing to take a risk or two if it's only Their well being that is at risk...

Throw a kid into the mix... a kid you happen to actually Want and Like...

that changes things...

Remember the '60's? Remember the various movements and protests?

Look at the pictures...

Lot of idealistic young people fighting for what they believed in.

Not a lot of migrant turned local farm workers in those pics though.

Not a lot of middle aged mothers and fathers in those pics...

People with little or nothing to lose are the ones willing to go the extra mile...

The rest aren't quite so willing.

Three years ago I was ranting and raving and trying to change things for the better...

Now I have a kid and I bite my tongue a lot...

I'm not particularly Proud of that... *sighs*

just an observation and some food for thought.

rock on

I go back to lurk now.
twj

Looks like they didn't need to mail all that anthrax after all.