reply to post by xpert11
On the McLaughlin Report show last night I saw a list of the wealthiest candidates. Romney at $200+ million, Giuliani and Edwards in the low 50s, the
Clinton's at $31 million, and to my surprise, McCain at $8 million. Obama was at $1.3.
As for McCain, how’d he get $8 mil?
2008 Conservative Presidential Candidates, page 47
privacy
reply posted on 16-12-2007 @ 06:30 PM by xpert11
Don assuming that you are referring to personal wealth then I wouldn't have a clue how John acquired such wealth .
Here is the only clue I know of .
source
Maybe John did well out of some shady dealings but since that is pure speculation I wont take say much else on the matter.
Here is the only clue I know of .
McCain's upwards political trajectory was jolted when he became enmeshed in the Keating Five scandal of the 1980s. In the context of the Savings and Loan crisis of that decade, Charles Keating, Jr.'s Lincoln Savings and Loan Association, a subsidiary of his American Continental Corporation, was insolvent due to some bad loans. In order to regain solvency, Lincoln sold investment in a real estate venture as a FDIC insured savings account.
source
Maybe John did well out of some shady dealings but since that is pure speculation I wont take say much else on the matter.
reply posted on 16-12-2007 @ 07:49 PM by donwhite
reply to post by xpert11
I think he was an O6 - captain - in the USN when he left the service. With 30 years service and age 59 yrs 6 mos that brings $6,000 a month for life with COLA. Less with fewer years and also less if retirement pay begins before 59 1/2. Congress pays about $145,000 a year with "fringes" and generous retirement. World's best health care at world's cheapest rates. For Congress not for the military.
McCain could have commanded $5,000 per speech early on, and by now, may be a $25-30,000 per speech "property." On that basis alone, making 25 speeches a year for 30 years would be $8 million. I think he has a book or 2.
A lot of Congressional wives "draw" six figure salaries but it is not always clear what they do for the money. Rules are very LAX in this area.
I think he was an O6 - captain - in the USN when he left the service. With 30 years service and age 59 yrs 6 mos that brings $6,000 a month for life with COLA. Less with fewer years and also less if retirement pay begins before 59 1/2. Congress pays about $145,000 a year with "fringes" and generous retirement. World's best health care at world's cheapest rates. For Congress not for the military.
McCain could have commanded $5,000 per speech early on, and by now, may be a $25-30,000 per speech "property." On that basis alone, making 25 speeches a year for 30 years would be $8 million. I think he has a book or 2.
A lot of Congressional wives "draw" six figure salaries but it is not always clear what they do for the money. Rules are very LAX in this area.
reply posted on 18-12-2007 @ 08:16 PM by donwhite
reply to post by xpert11
Ron Paul. Absolutely! I believe he raised just under $5 million last month, in the first ONE day fund-raiser. Then he nearly got $7 million a couple days ago. In fact, HE is not rasing anything. It is his supporters raising it FOR him. About 55,000 donors in both events. That’s $275 each! Since that is much more than I think the average internet logger is going to donate to anybody, I’m thinking there are a FEW donors who are putting up BIG bucks. I think there is a $2000 limit.
Like a lot of the medical doctors in Texas, for example. Very few medical doctors in America are known for their charitable impulses. A few guys like them could TELEGRAPH a message to the mainstream Republicans by sending $2 Gs to Dr. Paul. That might have a stronger effect on them then sending them $2 Gs directly. Everybody in America who knows politics knows what Dr Paul stands for: Dam near NO government - say no regulations - and dam near NO taxes.
Privately owned toll roads and bridges, national parks sold off, increased park fees, a couple thousand dollars fee to get into court, maybe a pro-family plan to give parents a couple hundred bucks a year TOWARDS their children’s education. MAYBE. No food inspectors. No lead painted toy inspectors. No airplane maintenance inspectors. Mostly private police. Pay as you use Fire departments. EMT takes your credit card FIRST. Everybody carries a gun. Kill the spotted owls, the snail darter, the grey wolf and any other animal that blocks making money!
Global warming? Leftist crapola. GOD is in charge of the climate. Let the good times roll and the Devil takes the hindmost! Caveat emptor and laissez faire economics rule the day!
Yup, that’s Ron Paul.
[edit on 12/18/2007 by donwhite]
While I don't buy into Ron Paul mania I do think that his fund raising effort deserves discussion. So Don what do you make of Ron fund raising? Unless you can prove that some of Ron cash come from the same old crowd doesn't that mean that CFR isn’t needed?
Ron Paul. Absolutely! I believe he raised just under $5 million last month, in the first ONE day fund-raiser. Then he nearly got $7 million a couple days ago. In fact, HE is not rasing anything. It is his supporters raising it FOR him. About 55,000 donors in both events. That’s $275 each! Since that is much more than I think the average internet logger is going to donate to anybody, I’m thinking there are a FEW donors who are putting up BIG bucks. I think there is a $2000 limit.
Like a lot of the medical doctors in Texas, for example. Very few medical doctors in America are known for their charitable impulses. A few guys like them could TELEGRAPH a message to the mainstream Republicans by sending $2 Gs to Dr. Paul. That might have a stronger effect on them then sending them $2 Gs directly. Everybody in America who knows politics knows what Dr Paul stands for: Dam near NO government - say no regulations - and dam near NO taxes.
Privately owned toll roads and bridges, national parks sold off, increased park fees, a couple thousand dollars fee to get into court, maybe a pro-family plan to give parents a couple hundred bucks a year TOWARDS their children’s education. MAYBE. No food inspectors. No lead painted toy inspectors. No airplane maintenance inspectors. Mostly private police. Pay as you use Fire departments. EMT takes your credit card FIRST. Everybody carries a gun. Kill the spotted owls, the snail darter, the grey wolf and any other animal that blocks making money!
Global warming? Leftist crapola. GOD is in charge of the climate. Let the good times roll and the Devil takes the hindmost! Caveat emptor and laissez faire economics rule the day!
Yup, that’s Ron Paul.
[edit on 12/18/2007 by donwhite]
reply posted on 19-12-2007 @ 11:02 AM by donwhite
reply to post by xpert11
1) Yes, on leaving responsibility in the states. You know already I have little to no regard for the states. If left to me, I’d reduce them to mere zip codes. I subscribe to the opening line in the Preamble to the United States Constitution, “We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union . . . “ Or even to the Pledge of Allegiance which before 1954 closed with these words, “ . . one nation, indivisible and with liberty and justice for all” as originally written before Eisenhower Republicans added “under God” in appreciation for wining the first election since 1932.
2) Global warming whether real or fraudulent, will nevertheless bring about unpredictable changes in the earth’s weather patterns in the next decade that could be worse than the ravages of World War Two. I suspect we have already passed the “tipping point” and not much can be done about it. Note: I’m reading “Floods, Famines and Emperors” by Brian Fagan. He discusses the last 15,000 years of earth’s climatology in some interesting detail using many written records, ice and mud cores and tree rings studies.
3) Fund raising in today’s environment while relevant to CFR does not lend itself to immediate analogy. For sure, the potential of the internet is just beginning to be felt. How long before we vote on the internet? Perhaps America’s 45-50% participation could suddenly shoot to 90%+? We have been told the “insiders” do not want that. Mass voter participation. Nor do they want easy access by voters. Florida still has the infamous list of 35,000 ex-felons of which 80% are black, used to keep from voting. And which no one is notified until he or she attempts to vote. And which we learned the list was prepared by Republicans who took indictments and not convictions as the basis for the list. Many of those cases were dismissed and others were amended down to misdemeanors which are not disqualifying. Another reason I don't “love” Republicans.
Campaign Finance Reform should stand on its own. Done property and not emasculated as has happened every time in the past, every person who wants to run and who could acquire enough signatures on a petition, would be given equal opportunity to make his or her case. Yes, there might be 10,000 candidates, but a series of pre-primaries could reduce that to a workable number. If we can go to the Moon and back, we can figure this one too. If we want to. Unfortunately, as in our health care, immigration and our anti-terrorism boondoggle, it will have to get worse before it can get better. IMO.
And One More Thing: Why I’m not a state’s rights conservative. Federal law prohibits garnishment of “public benefits” deposited into banks. By law social security, SSI, and veteran’s disability benefits are considered to be “public benefits.”
The Bank of America in California has engaged in a practice of charging overdraft fees ($35) and other service fees against the next direct deposit into the client’s account, regardless of he origin of the deposit. The American Association of Retired Persons (AARP) filed suit in California to stop the practice and recoup the wrongfully deducted fees.
The California state trial court found in the plaintiffs favor and awarded $296 million against the Bank of America, based on a 4 year statute of limitation. The Bank appealed to the state Appeals Court arguing it would put an undue hardship on the Bank to know the source of each direct deposit. (That’s a patent lie. My checks are direct deposited and are marked as such by my bank, Wachovia).
The California state Appeals Court agreed with the Bank of America and reversed the judgment. The AARP has appealed to the California Supreme Court. Aside: Republican appointed judges will rule against the little people, while Democratic appointed judges will rule against the Bank. This is why there is so much fighting over judicial appointments at both state and Federal level. Rights granted by Congress are rendered worthless when you have Republican judges to enforce them. End.
Advice? The AARP says if you have been victimized by illegal deductions by your Federally regulated bank contact your local Legal Aid office. Another joke on the poor. In Louisville, a municipality of 750,000 people, the Legal Aid Society had 5 lawyers on staff. They spent most of their time on spouse abuse cases, non-payment of child support and landlord and tenant eviction cases. (Public Defenders represent the poor in criminal cases. Also grossly under-staffed and under-paid). For a “free” divorce, there’s a 2 years waiting list. This kind of case would have a very low priority. Oh, by the by, the Social Security Administration REQUIRES you to have your monthly check direct deposited as does the Veterans Administration. From the AARP monthly “Bulletin” for December, 2007, at page 34.
Q. How would the always touted free market resolve this issue?
Check out my thread, “Atlanta - The First City In America To Shut-down?”
[edit on 12/19/2007 by donwhite]
Umm I think Ron would have the states do the likes of inspecting toys and food etc rather then the Federal government . Global Warming is a fraud enough said. Plus I am still curious as to your thoughts concerning Ron fund raising and the need for CFR.
1) Yes, on leaving responsibility in the states. You know already I have little to no regard for the states. If left to me, I’d reduce them to mere zip codes. I subscribe to the opening line in the Preamble to the United States Constitution, “We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union . . . “ Or even to the Pledge of Allegiance which before 1954 closed with these words, “ . . one nation, indivisible and with liberty and justice for all” as originally written before Eisenhower Republicans added “under God” in appreciation for wining the first election since 1932.
2) Global warming whether real or fraudulent, will nevertheless bring about unpredictable changes in the earth’s weather patterns in the next decade that could be worse than the ravages of World War Two. I suspect we have already passed the “tipping point” and not much can be done about it. Note: I’m reading “Floods, Famines and Emperors” by Brian Fagan. He discusses the last 15,000 years of earth’s climatology in some interesting detail using many written records, ice and mud cores and tree rings studies.
3) Fund raising in today’s environment while relevant to CFR does not lend itself to immediate analogy. For sure, the potential of the internet is just beginning to be felt. How long before we vote on the internet? Perhaps America’s 45-50% participation could suddenly shoot to 90%+? We have been told the “insiders” do not want that. Mass voter participation. Nor do they want easy access by voters. Florida still has the infamous list of 35,000 ex-felons of which 80% are black, used to keep from voting. And which no one is notified until he or she attempts to vote. And which we learned the list was prepared by Republicans who took indictments and not convictions as the basis for the list. Many of those cases were dismissed and others were amended down to misdemeanors which are not disqualifying. Another reason I don't “love” Republicans.
Campaign Finance Reform should stand on its own. Done property and not emasculated as has happened every time in the past, every person who wants to run and who could acquire enough signatures on a petition, would be given equal opportunity to make his or her case. Yes, there might be 10,000 candidates, but a series of pre-primaries could reduce that to a workable number. If we can go to the Moon and back, we can figure this one too. If we want to. Unfortunately, as in our health care, immigration and our anti-terrorism boondoggle, it will have to get worse before it can get better. IMO.
And One More Thing: Why I’m not a state’s rights conservative. Federal law prohibits garnishment of “public benefits” deposited into banks. By law social security, SSI, and veteran’s disability benefits are considered to be “public benefits.”
The Bank of America in California has engaged in a practice of charging overdraft fees ($35) and other service fees against the next direct deposit into the client’s account, regardless of he origin of the deposit. The American Association of Retired Persons (AARP) filed suit in California to stop the practice and recoup the wrongfully deducted fees.
The California state trial court found in the plaintiffs favor and awarded $296 million against the Bank of America, based on a 4 year statute of limitation. The Bank appealed to the state Appeals Court arguing it would put an undue hardship on the Bank to know the source of each direct deposit. (That’s a patent lie. My checks are direct deposited and are marked as such by my bank, Wachovia).
The California state Appeals Court agreed with the Bank of America and reversed the judgment. The AARP has appealed to the California Supreme Court. Aside: Republican appointed judges will rule against the little people, while Democratic appointed judges will rule against the Bank. This is why there is so much fighting over judicial appointments at both state and Federal level. Rights granted by Congress are rendered worthless when you have Republican judges to enforce them. End.
Advice? The AARP says if you have been victimized by illegal deductions by your Federally regulated bank contact your local Legal Aid office. Another joke on the poor. In Louisville, a municipality of 750,000 people, the Legal Aid Society had 5 lawyers on staff. They spent most of their time on spouse abuse cases, non-payment of child support and landlord and tenant eviction cases. (Public Defenders represent the poor in criminal cases. Also grossly under-staffed and under-paid). For a “free” divorce, there’s a 2 years waiting list. This kind of case would have a very low priority. Oh, by the by, the Social Security Administration REQUIRES you to have your monthly check direct deposited as does the Veterans Administration. From the AARP monthly “Bulletin” for December, 2007, at page 34.
Q. How would the always touted free market resolve this issue?
Check out my thread, “Atlanta - The First City In America To Shut-down?”
[edit on 12/19/2007 by donwhite]
reply posted on 4-1-2008 @ 02:19 AM by xpert11
-- Barack Obama and Mike Huckabee have claimed victories in Iowa's first-in-the-nation caucuses
Huckabee's victory can be attributed to his overwhelming support among evangelical voters and women, the polls indicate.
With 92 percent of Republican precincts reporting, Huckabee, former governor of Arkansas, had the support of 34 percent of voters, compared to 25 percent for Romney. Fred Thompson had 13 percent, McCain had 13 percent and Ron Paul had 10 percent.
source
There is still a long way to go in the race. The faster out of the starting block doesn't always win the race .
Surely how a candidate does on Super Tuesday will be a better indicator of there chances then Iowa ?
I don't understand why there is so much focus on Iowa.
Don as for the other issues you raised I have never opposed the existence of Legal Aid and as for the appointment of judges the US political system is just so differnt I don't know what to say.
Some perceptive is needed the US is more Conservative then places like Europe and New Zealand. Even if you blended all mainstream right wing party's here in NZ it would still be to the left or more moderate then the Republican supporter base at Federal level and the right wing element of the Republican party.
Since the right wing element of the Republican party is what the supporter base consists of at federal level moderate Republicans or progressive Republicans like Romney was before he flip flopped have trouble progressing beyond state level.
I'm afriad that is the best explanation I can give.
[edit on 4-1-2008 by xpert11]
reply posted on 4-1-2008 @ 06:24 PM by donwhite
reply to post by xpert11
America is young, as nations go. If you start counting in 1607, then this is our 400th year. VA is celebrating just that all year long. If you start at 1789, the date or our current constitution, then we’re about half that, 218 years. We are still trying to get some traditions started. The newsmen say Iowa became a big deal in the 1970s. It was unusual in our system to employ the caucus instead of just marking a ballot. The GOP gave up and switched to ballots but the Dems still go with the traditional caucus. And I think many people liked the so-called “retail” politics small states like Iowa and NH afford.
Iowa has 56,000 square miles. 145,000 sq kilometers. 2,930,000 population. NH is even smaller, 9,300 sq miles or 24,000 sq kilometers. Population is 1,235,000 people whose state motto is “Live Free of Die.” Hmm? NH is one of the original 13 states. Iowa was 29th state, admitted in 1846 as a “free” state to offset the admission of Texas as a “slave” state. Median income is almost $49,000 above the national average. Iowa is a rural state. As you may have heard, it is definitely a WASP state, white, Anglo-Saxon and Protestant. Des Moines is the capital and largest city. It is also the #92 metropolitan area in the US, just ahead of Jackson, MS, and just behind Melbourne-Titusville, FL. at 530-odd thousands.
I agree on Super Tuesday. Also called Tsunami Tuesday! Or Super Duper Tuesday. By the end of the day, 40% of nominating delegates will have been chosen. Voting that day will be in Alabama, Arkansas, Delaware, Missouri, New Mexico Democrats, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Utah and West Virginia Republicans. Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Georgia, Idaho Democrats, Illinois, Kansas Democrats, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Montana Republicans, New Jersey, New York, Tennessee, and maybe Oregon. Note that we still regard “primaries” over here as private property of the political parties! (Recall Florida).
Consider that after California, Arizona, Georgia, Illinois, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, and Minnesota have voted that will leave only Texas and Pennsylvania as large voting block states not yet heard from.
California, our most populated state, 3rd largest in area, and with a $1.7T economy, does more than 1/8th of our national gross domestic product. 53 of our nations 435 representatives in the House come from California. But only 2 senators. Wyoming, our smallest population state, also has 2 senators, but only 1 representative. FF’s you did it to us again.
[edit on 1/4/2008 by donwhite]
It seems strange to have people voting at this time of the year I'm more inclined to think about the beach rather then politics this time of year. In the US I would expect peoples minds to be on winter activity's rather then politics but such is life.
America is young, as nations go. If you start counting in 1607, then this is our 400th year. VA is celebrating just that all year long. If you start at 1789, the date or our current constitution, then we’re about half that, 218 years. We are still trying to get some traditions started. The newsmen say Iowa became a big deal in the 1970s. It was unusual in our system to employ the caucus instead of just marking a ballot. The GOP gave up and switched to ballots but the Dems still go with the traditional caucus. And I think many people liked the so-called “retail” politics small states like Iowa and NH afford.
Iowa has 56,000 square miles. 145,000 sq kilometers. 2,930,000 population. NH is even smaller, 9,300 sq miles or 24,000 sq kilometers. Population is 1,235,000 people whose state motto is “Live Free of Die.” Hmm? NH is one of the original 13 states. Iowa was 29th state, admitted in 1846 as a “free” state to offset the admission of Texas as a “slave” state. Median income is almost $49,000 above the national average. Iowa is a rural state. As you may have heard, it is definitely a WASP state, white, Anglo-Saxon and Protestant. Des Moines is the capital and largest city. It is also the #92 metropolitan area in the US, just ahead of Jackson, MS, and just behind Melbourne-Titusville, FL. at 530-odd thousands.
Barack Obama and Mike Huckabee have claimed victories in Iowa's first-in-the-nation caucuses . . Huckabee's victory can be attributed to his overwhelming support among evangelical voters and women, the polls indicate . . Huckabee, former governor of Arkansas, had the support of 34 percent of voters, compared to 25 percent for Romney. Thompson had 13 percent, McCain also had 13 percent and Ron Paul had 10 percent. There is still a long way to go in the race. The fastest out of the starting block doesn't always win the race. Surely how a candidate does on Super Tuesday will be a better indicator of there chances then Iowa?
I agree on Super Tuesday. Also called Tsunami Tuesday! Or Super Duper Tuesday. By the end of the day, 40% of nominating delegates will have been chosen. Voting that day will be in Alabama, Arkansas, Delaware, Missouri, New Mexico Democrats, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Utah and West Virginia Republicans. Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Georgia, Idaho Democrats, Illinois, Kansas Democrats, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Montana Republicans, New Jersey, New York, Tennessee, and maybe Oregon. Note that we still regard “primaries” over here as private property of the political parties! (Recall Florida).
Consider that after California, Arizona, Georgia, Illinois, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, and Minnesota have voted that will leave only Texas and Pennsylvania as large voting block states not yet heard from.
California, our most populated state, 3rd largest in area, and with a $1.7T economy, does more than 1/8th of our national gross domestic product. 53 of our nations 435 representatives in the House come from California. But only 2 senators. Wyoming, our smallest population state, also has 2 senators, but only 1 representative. FF’s you did it to us again.
[edit on 1/4/2008 by donwhite]
reply posted on 9-1-2008 @ 10:27 AM by donwhite
reply to post by xpert11
Yes, I recall our earlier discussion. You have “tried” to explain it to me before. I put “tried” in quotes because I am somewhat dense. Also, I went to some site and got an official explanation how it is to work but found it quite complicated and it seemed to me something had been left out. It sounds - MMP - like a uniquely NZ adapted proportional representation scheme.
This brings me to my recent conclusion that TOO much democracy is what afflicts America, Florida and Jacksonville. Let me re-run this. I have ONE congressperson. Elected every 2 years. I have TWO senators, purposely divided into 3 classes so that 1/3rd are up for election every 2 years. For each state, that means we vote on a senator 2 times out of each 6 year cycle.
We choose a president (and automatically a vice president) every 4 years. Note: Bush43 lost his mandate in the November ‘06 election, but he will remain in office until January 20 2009. That means the US is limited in its ability to engage in foreign affairs and that the president cannot make much domestic policy either. That’s TWO YEARS TWO MONTHS and is too long in this hyper-fast era of the 21st century. If the FFs did not muck us up then I don’t know mucking.
At the Florida level, I choose 1 representative every 2 years, and 1 senator every 4 years. I choose a governor every 4 years. In addition, we have the same “initiative” plan California has which allows any group that can acquire signatures equal to 1% of the last general election turnout, to put any special interest cocked-eye Constitutional Amendments on the ballot. For example, the rich and famous have one on the January 29 ballot raising the exemption from taxation on homes from the current $250,000 to $500,000. Florida is already one of the SIX worst states for taxing the poor and this will only add to that. NOTE: Florida has no income tax but relies on the regressive sales tax for its major source of revenue.
We elect judges in Florida. Supreme Court. Numerous Appeals Courts. Many District courts and many county courts. TOO many judges to be elected. That means “getting on the ballot” is the major accomplishment to be elected. Voters have no realistic way to know which judges might be better and which to avoid. Often just being notorious is enough to be elected. Name recognition.
At the City level, we have 19 members of a City Council. 12 are elected from discrete districts. 7 more are called Members-at-Large and are also from discrete but larger districts. THEREFORE, I vote on 2 city council members every 4 years.
The School Board - our largest public budget agency - has 7 members chosen from equally populated districts but if you look at a map you will immediately suspect gerrymandering at work. The boundaries are Irregular and not regular as they should be if hanky-pank was not at work.
I’m more interested in politics than most people but I will admit I cannot cast an informed ballot in most of the races I’m ALLOWED to vote in. TOO much democracy means skills other than good governance or urging wise policies are more valuable to getting into office. Skull-duggery. Cleverness. Shrewdness. Not the traits you want in public servants And etc.
MMP would merely be one more broken spoke in a wheel nearly ready to break down altogether.
[edit on 1/9/2008 by donwhite]
posted by xpert11
Don I come back to our discussion on MMP. MMP of course complicates things by ensuring minority representation the urban areas where the majority of population lives still have a large impact on the outcome of elections because the party vote plays a big part in the outcome of the elections. Note if a minor party wins seat in a rural area they could still effect the make up of government. So the effect is that geographical location/population and electoral seats can and cannot be less of a factor . For example ACT only made it back into parliament because Rodney Hide won an electoral seat.
Yes, I recall our earlier discussion. You have “tried” to explain it to me before. I put “tried” in quotes because I am somewhat dense. Also, I went to some site and got an official explanation how it is to work but found it quite complicated and it seemed to me something had been left out. It sounds - MMP - like a uniquely NZ adapted proportional representation scheme.
This brings me to my recent conclusion that TOO much democracy is what afflicts America, Florida and Jacksonville. Let me re-run this. I have ONE congressperson. Elected every 2 years. I have TWO senators, purposely divided into 3 classes so that 1/3rd are up for election every 2 years. For each state, that means we vote on a senator 2 times out of each 6 year cycle.
We choose a president (and automatically a vice president) every 4 years. Note: Bush43 lost his mandate in the November ‘06 election, but he will remain in office until January 20 2009. That means the US is limited in its ability to engage in foreign affairs and that the president cannot make much domestic policy either. That’s TWO YEARS TWO MONTHS and is too long in this hyper-fast era of the 21st century. If the FFs did not muck us up then I don’t know mucking.
At the Florida level, I choose 1 representative every 2 years, and 1 senator every 4 years. I choose a governor every 4 years. In addition, we have the same “initiative” plan California has which allows any group that can acquire signatures equal to 1% of the last general election turnout, to put any special interest cocked-eye Constitutional Amendments on the ballot. For example, the rich and famous have one on the January 29 ballot raising the exemption from taxation on homes from the current $250,000 to $500,000. Florida is already one of the SIX worst states for taxing the poor and this will only add to that. NOTE: Florida has no income tax but relies on the regressive sales tax for its major source of revenue.
We elect judges in Florida. Supreme Court. Numerous Appeals Courts. Many District courts and many county courts. TOO many judges to be elected. That means “getting on the ballot” is the major accomplishment to be elected. Voters have no realistic way to know which judges might be better and which to avoid. Often just being notorious is enough to be elected. Name recognition.
At the City level, we have 19 members of a City Council. 12 are elected from discrete districts. 7 more are called Members-at-Large and are also from discrete but larger districts. THEREFORE, I vote on 2 city council members every 4 years.
The School Board - our largest public budget agency - has 7 members chosen from equally populated districts but if you look at a map you will immediately suspect gerrymandering at work. The boundaries are Irregular and not regular as they should be if hanky-pank was not at work.
I’m more interested in politics than most people but I will admit I cannot cast an informed ballot in most of the races I’m ALLOWED to vote in. TOO much democracy means skills other than good governance or urging wise policies are more valuable to getting into office. Skull-duggery. Cleverness. Shrewdness. Not the traits you want in public servants And etc.
MMP would merely be one more broken spoke in a wheel nearly ready to break down altogether.
[edit on 1/9/2008 by donwhite]
reply posted on 9-1-2008 @ 06:09 PM by xpert11
reply to post by donwhite
Well MMP is certainly complex every election there is usually a poll that comes outside that says a good percentage of voters don't understand MMP. MMP is also used in Germany so it isnt unique to NZ. Rather then to much democracy the US has democracy is in the wrong places. I don't see the point in have judges elected by the people myself. I would be much inclined to have the leader of a country in this the case the president and vice president elected by popular vote.
I thought that the three year electoral cycle was bad but a two cycle is just somewhere beyond absurd. Locally we have both income tax and a sales tax just be grateful that you aren't being strung twice unfairly. There is nothing wrong with voting for your representatives at council level.
As far as I know members of parent teacher associations at the likes of primary schools are selected amongst parents and staff. This is how it should be since the PTA don't represent the wider community .
Its not for me to pass judgement on the US political system but surely people have enough sense to know that two year electoral cycle should be replaced with a four year cycle that is in line with presidential elections.
As for Fred it doesn't look like that he will have the resources to compete with the big boys in the key states . Fred and his team must think that he has enough grass roots support to win the war with out having gotten on a roll in the likes of Iowa.
[edit on 9-1-2008 by xpert11]
Well MMP is certainly complex every election there is usually a poll that comes outside that says a good percentage of voters don't understand MMP. MMP is also used in Germany so it isnt unique to NZ. Rather then to much democracy the US has democracy is in the wrong places. I don't see the point in have judges elected by the people myself. I would be much inclined to have the leader of a country in this the case the president and vice president elected by popular vote.
I thought that the three year electoral cycle was bad but a two cycle is just somewhere beyond absurd. Locally we have both income tax and a sales tax just be grateful that you aren't being strung twice unfairly. There is nothing wrong with voting for your representatives at council level.
As far as I know members of parent teacher associations at the likes of primary schools are selected amongst parents and staff. This is how it should be since the PTA don't represent the wider community .
Its not for me to pass judgement on the US political system but surely people have enough sense to know that two year electoral cycle should be replaced with a four year cycle that is in line with presidential elections.
As for Fred it doesn't look like that he will have the resources to compete with the big boys in the key states . Fred and his team must think that he has enough grass roots support to win the war with out having gotten on a roll in the likes of Iowa.
[edit on 9-1-2008 by xpert11]
reply posted on 10-1-2008 @ 10:02 AM by donwhite
reply to post by xpert11
I say TOO much democracy because I know if I have trouble making rational and informed decisions, I know there are people who just give up, don’t vote or vote for a name they like or for the first person on the ballot or the last and so on. Like playing a lottery.
I did not explain the Senate arrangement very well. The US Con provides for the dividing of the first senate into 3 classes. Class 1 terms expired after 2 years, class 2 after 4 years and class 3 after 6 years. In each instance, their successors from the next election onward, are elected for 6 year terms. Because each state has 2 senators, and the Con provided that no state’s senators would be in the same class, there are 2 senatorial election every 6 years in every state. See Note 1.
Well, Fred has proved to be a dull re-run of 1980 Reagan. I have never liked actors in politics. Traits of character that make you good in one do not necessarily make you good in the other. Actors tend to confuse applause with approval.
Mixed Member Proportional. The origins of electoral reform lay in the gradual breakdown of public trust and confidence in politicians, Parliament, and the simple certainties of the old two-party system. This process began in the 1950s and 1960s and gathered momentum in the 1970s and 1980s, decades marked by economic uncertainty and the emergence of new social and political movements. in December 1986, was surprisingly radical.
It recommended New Zealand adopt the German-style MMP system, in which each elector would get two votes, one for an electorate MP and one for a party. The size of Parliament would increase to 120 MPs: half would be elected in single-member constituencies (as before); the other half would be selected from party lists so that in general each party's share of all 120 seats corresponded to its share of the overall vote.
An overwhelming 85% voted to change their electoral system. In the second part of the poll, 70% favoured MMP. (Numbers are from the 55% of the eligible voters who actually voted). For a fuller explanation, see
www.elections.org.nz...
Note 1. US Con. Article 1, Section 3. “The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each state . . for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote. Immediately after they shall be assembled in consequence of the first election, they shall be divided as equally as may be into three classes. The seats of the Senators of the first class shall be vacated at the expiration of the second year, of the second class at the expiration of the fourth year, and the third class at the expiration of the sixth year, so that one third may be chosen every second year;”
Well MMP is certainly complex every election there is usually a poll that comes outside that says a good percentage of voters don't understand MMP. MMP is also used in Germany so it isn’t unique to NZ. Rather then too much democracy the US has democracy is in the wrong places. I would be much inclined to have the leader of a country in this the case the president and vice president elected by [direct] popular vote.
I say TOO much democracy because I know if I have trouble making rational and informed decisions, I know there are people who just give up, don’t vote or vote for a name they like or for the first person on the ballot or the last and so on. Like playing a lottery.
I thought that the three year electoral cycle was bad but a two cycle is just somewhere beyond absurd. Locally we have both income tax and a sales tax just be grateful that you aren't being strung twice unfairly. There is nothing wrong with voting for your representatives at council level.
I did not explain the Senate arrangement very well. The US Con provides for the dividing of the first senate into 3 classes. Class 1 terms expired after 2 years, class 2 after 4 years and class 3 after 6 years. In each instance, their successors from the next election onward, are elected for 6 year terms. Because each state has 2 senators, and the Con provided that no state’s senators would be in the same class, there are 2 senatorial election every 6 years in every state. See Note 1.
As for Fred it doesn't look like that he will have the resources to compete with the big boys in the key states . Fred and his team must think that he has enough grass roots support to win the war without having gotten on a roll in the likes of Iowa.
Well, Fred has proved to be a dull re-run of 1980 Reagan. I have never liked actors in politics. Traits of character that make you good in one do not necessarily make you good in the other. Actors tend to confuse applause with approval.
Mixed Member Proportional. The origins of electoral reform lay in the gradual breakdown of public trust and confidence in politicians, Parliament, and the simple certainties of the old two-party system. This process began in the 1950s and 1960s and gathered momentum in the 1970s and 1980s, decades marked by economic uncertainty and the emergence of new social and political movements. in December 1986, was surprisingly radical.
It recommended New Zealand adopt the German-style MMP system, in which each elector would get two votes, one for an electorate MP and one for a party. The size of Parliament would increase to 120 MPs: half would be elected in single-member constituencies (as before); the other half would be selected from party lists so that in general each party's share of all 120 seats corresponded to its share of the overall vote.
An overwhelming 85% voted to change their electoral system. In the second part of the poll, 70% favoured MMP. (Numbers are from the 55% of the eligible voters who actually voted). For a fuller explanation, see
www.elections.org.nz...
Note 1. US Con. Article 1, Section 3. “The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each state . . for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote. Immediately after they shall be assembled in consequence of the first election, they shall be divided as equally as may be into three classes. The seats of the Senators of the first class shall be vacated at the expiration of the second year, of the second class at the expiration of the fourth year, and the third class at the expiration of the sixth year, so that one third may be chosen every second year;”
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