Give it a Bash, the new Look

Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid
Sorry... I forgot we're entitled to any opinion we want (as long as it's the staff's) here at ATS... My bad.

Besides, I was only following the topic of the thread. I could deal with the lack of content before, but now? Not so much... As for the personal attacks, I keep forgetting that the ever so beloved terms and conditions don't apply to those who enforce them.

Wow... What a load of BOLLOCKS!



Springer...

help help

Im having trouble viewing the new posts in pts, it seems that some posts have a grey background and the thread title is grey as well making it real difficult to read the thread titles at all, is there any way to change this?

Also when viewing posts with links, the links used to be red and now they are not which causes me to not see them as links, is there any way to change this as i do not want to have to hover over every single letter just to discover a link


edit: apparently you are able to change the colour a bit from dark to light yet i am unable to find these buttons


another edit: i now have found the buttons to change the colour but it seems they seem to dissapear now and then, sometimes refreshing the page helps sometimes it doesnt


[edit on 6-12-2006 by Fett Pinkus]

[edit on 6-12-2006 by Fett Pinkus]

Originally posted by Fett Pinkus
help help

Im having trouble viewing the new posts in pts, it seems that some posts have a grey background and the thread title is grey as well making it real difficult to read the thread titles at all, is there any way to change this?

Some of the work on ATS is affecting both BTS & PTS. When the ATS gui is finished, SkepticOverlord will move on and upgrade BTS and PTS.

edit: apparently you are able to change the colour a bit from dark to light yet i am unable to find these buttons

While viewing a thread, you should see the words darkest dark light lighest slightly above the first thread displayed in the thread. Click one to change your display preference.

Originally posted by Ex
I love the black, it's the freakin buttons that I can't see unless I highlight
and you know how much work that is......
Dang!!
A Woman's Work Is Never Done!

Neither is a man's work...
I really have trouble seeing the "Edit" button because of how close the colors match; I've been tested pretty thoroughly for color blindness (although the last time was in 1986 ). I never missed or even hesitated at any step on the test & came out 100% on that.
That & the " - single - this post " part at the top of every post, after the "posted: (date/time/post ID)" part (but this one is slightly easier to see than the Edit button).

Originally posted by kinglizard
If you are having difficulty reading the text in posts I would recommend that you check your contrast setting.

I never mess with my contrast settings...Only my gamma correction. Even then, only for specific applications (such as games that always seem to be too d@mmmmm dark ). I also save those settings but change back to normal when I'm done.
It's been my understanding, however, that such "color matching problems" would be tweaked out eventually, but I thought I'd provide a couple of specific examples. I don't have any problems in dealing with it for now, so I won't try making any personal adjustments of text colors (darker/lighter/whatever) until the "construction dust" has settled.

I kinda miss the list of "Recent Posts" that used to be about in the middle of the left of the forum home page...I used to make a lot of use of that (apparently, the same as quite a few others did too). Matter of fact, I'd usually go there first, then check out my Subscriptions & the threads listings in the MyATS page. I'd usually save my "aimless browsing" until after.

Originally posted by JackCash
I liked the old style better. It was easier to navigate.

I figure that I'll get along just fine once I get used to the new layout...But newcomers here may have a few problems until they take the time to really give the forum-homepage a really good lookover. Finding some way to fit the topic descriptions back in may ease that.
The "oldsters" here pretty much know already what the topics are...It just might be a problem for newer people to understand the intent of each topic without some kind of description.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Did you not see that this is a WORK IN PROGRESS? Did you not read that it will take SEVERAL WEEKS OF TWEAKING to get the final product? Do you not TRUST THE AMIGOS????

Actually, I do...A whole heckuva lot more than I'd ever trust any politician (Well, that much goes without saying ).
I, for one, do realize that the Honchos are probably scrabbling around like the proverbial headless chickens right now; Heck, SO has already pulled out all of his hair (You've seen his avatar, right?)!
I see this particular thread as a means for the Staff to have a comprehensive list of potential problems...They're in frantic action about now & may actually miss/forget something along the way (Nobody's perfect you know...Not even me ); I'm well aware of how complex computers & software can get (I've had to work on mainframes & communications gear, but I was more on the technician side than the programmers side). I do, however, have enough programming in my background to realize that even a single character of incorrect code can make the entire program crash.
I figure that they might make use of a list like this so they can catch those last little tweaks after all of the major headaches have been dulled down to only a minor throb.

Originally posted by intrepid
Changes of this magnitude need tweaking. That being said, the look of ATS is changing, our policies haven't. Let's discuss this politely.

For being a "crazy canuck" you seem to be at least as sane as I...Be that as it may.
About Fred:

Originally posted by intrepid
Could mean brackish water. That means he's ready to spawn.

Originally posted by Valhall
I feel very lonely right now....for some reason.
But at least I have Fred.

You may have Fred, but both Intrepid & I think Fred needs a Wilma...
What was that I mentioned about "sanity" earlier?

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
I will squint when necessary. I will wear my glasses. I will sit closer to the monitor, and dammit I will read conspiracy theories until I go blind.

That's the spirit! Although my momma said I'd go blind if I do this too much (Or was that something else she was talking about? ).

[edit on 6-12-2006 by MidnightDStroyer]
Edited to include: Ooops! I missed the topic descriptions until I just now used the 'ol "pause cursor over icon/title" trick...My bad!

[edit on 6-12-2006 by MidnightDStroyer]

Originally posted by psyopswatcher
Asty, Step 2:

Get busy around the house.


Step 3: Make lists.

Hey, thanks! It's working too -- actually managed to stay away for thirteen hours.

Will you be my Higher Power then?

Originally posted by Voxel
Look, there are exactly TWO (2) and only two types of sites on the internet that should get black backgrounds... both have one thing in common: very little text.

Right. Any old adman will tell you the same. St. David Ogilvy said it first: never set body copy in reverse.

Though I see we now have a set of light/dark options. For this relief much thanks, as the man said before the spectre showed.

The one thing that really wets my goat is the lack of a stretchy layout. I started making a CSS override style using Stylish with FireFox. I call it ATS-AntiMatter. Right now I only fix the width of the site because the colors are in flux and I will wait until the change over is complete before I fix anymore. The stretchy thing was really bothering me so I had to do something about it.

Before:


After:


The (very simple) AntiMatter script (again for Stylish) is:

@namespace url(www.w3.org...);

@-moz-document domain(abovetopsecret.com), domain(belowtopsecret.com) [

body table [
width:100% !important;
]

]

One thing I would plead for is proper class naming for the elements withing the HTML. Very few block-level elements have a named, id, or class and that makes overriding things in CSS a much harder pain than it should be. It would go a long way to making the site more machine readable and ultimately more user customizable - which I think is always a good-thing.

Anyway thanks for the good work guys! I didn't mean to sound too hard on you - I am used to design changes like this being rolled out nearly complete and last-minute changes being minor so I thought the site was pretty much as-it-is. Keep at the tweak!

Jon

I really like the new look. The problem that I have is that I am really worried about if m y computer doesnt work with the new layout. Other than that I really like the new look and I find it much easier to navigate through the forums in project dark matter.

I say the chat needs a little fixing!!! SO DARK MATTER IT!! I DONT KNOW WHATEVA YOU ARE WAITING FOR BUT THE CHAT NEEDS TO BE FIXED. MORE PEOPLE NEED TO BE IN THE CHAT, you should have a viewing plane so you can see who is in the chat there at that time, and plus it would be cool to see who's in chat again like the old chat, besides we lost our old members from the chat. I missed that ability.

I would like to see the paranoia meters back... back when I was a lurker on ATS I stumbled on this site by typing in a random name into the ssearch bar and I found ATS and I wanted to join because of the paranoia meters. It would be a nice finishing touch to the new look to have it back!

there should be an archive too so you can see stuff before 2006/2007/2008.

Other than that I really like ATS and I give you a !

Originally posted by Valhall
I feel very lonely right now....for some reason.

I'll be your friend.

Seriously though .. there are a few people on this site that I'd LOOOOOVE for you to 'get to know' and chat with ... Valhall style ...

Originally posted by Voxel
One thing I would plead for is proper class naming for the elements withing the HTML. Very few block-level elements have a named, id, or class and that makes ...

Anyway thanks for the good work guys! I didn't mean to sound too hard on you - I am used to design changes like this being rolled out nearly complete and last-minute changes being minor so I thought the site was pretty much as-it-is. Keep at the tweak!

Us design-centric "marketing types" tend not to like people mucking up their work with custom style sheets.

If you spent some time looking at the state of our code (a mashup of legacy XMB bits-and-pieces with some custom modifications and a gaggle of complete rewrites), then reviewed the size and complexity of our database (over 100 tables, some relational, and over 4 gigabytes), and then factored in that 3 sites share it all... you'd run screaming from any thought of a redesign (I nearly did).

Unfortunately, we don't have a segregated development sandbox for two reasons right now...
1) The cost of a development-only server is beyond our current means
2) The time involved in setting up a mirror environment is prohibitive

So I and we must endure the pain of progressive changes. I'm confident the end result will be something special... until then, we're going to be limping along looking for our lost marbles.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Us design-centric "marketing types" tend not to like people mucking up their work with custom style sheets.

I can totally understand that. I've done database driven websites for 8 years now and I know that after all the time you spend making things pixel perfect you don't want to have some luser come along and muck with the bits. The thing is there are certain things that are trade-offs (like the fixed width thing) that the user should have some say over. I'm sure some people would probably like a very high contrast (but ugly) display with CSS they could easily do this. Also, there are color-blind people out there who would love to change the colors so they can read certain combinations.

I think you should support customization a bit more. You could offer to allow members to skin their display, for instance, by purchasing the ability. Then you can have member styles and even a style repository of sorts. But I'm just blueskying over here.

If you spent some time looking at the state of our code (a mashup of legacy XMB bits-and-pieces with some custom modifications and a gaggle of complete rewrites), then reviewed the size and complexity of our database (over 100 tables, some relational, and over 4 gigabytes), and then factored in that 3 sites share it all... you'd run screaming from any thought of a redesign (I nearly did).

Just by looking at the HTML the code outputs I can tell it is something of a beast. I have found a couple of small things I want to point out too. I guess I'll send you a u2u about the HTML.

Unfortunately, we don't have a segregated development sandbox for two reasons right now...
1) The cost of a development-only server is beyond our current means
2) The time involved in setting up a mirror environment is prohibitive

I hate to say it, but I really don't understand this at all. You don't need the entire database - just the schema and some sample data. You don't even need a good machine. An old 700 mhz knockaround machine would be plenty adequate to handle the load of a few developers.

If trimming down the database into a sample is a problem then you could always create a "fill the sample site event" and offer 100 ATS points for people to make sample posts and replies at a temporary site for a few hours. Then you would have a workable sample of a few thousand posts for development purposes.

So I and we must endure the pain of progressive changes. I'm confident the end result will be something special... until then, we're going to be limping along looking for our lost marbles.

Well, I appreciate it and understand the effort involved - for what its worth.

Jon

[edit on 12.6.2006 by Voxel]

Well, I don't think much of the new black look but the icons on the home page are very well done.

I'm also glad you have made an option to allow for reading black print on a light background - can a field be added to the user table so this can be made permanent?

Is there any way to make today's posts the same (dark print/light background). This format is murder on my eyes and I'm sure you guys know about the studies re light/dark backgrounds, Advertising etc

I know you prob. don't want to change to a light background because you would then have to redo all your icons too...oh well

BTW, are the home page icons done internally or did a third party do them?

Cheers

JS

[edit on 6-12-2006 by jumpspace]

I have one question.


Why?

Nothing was wrong with the other look. Why change it?

I for one love the new look. For me it makes surfing the site EASIER, not more challenging.

I have no complaints.

The old ATS menu page was easier to read.

Borders around each subject helped, but the main reason was the reasonable font size.

Any chance the menu page font size could be enlarged a bit?

Something along the lines of 11pt to 12 pt.
Or whatever size the font is.

One thing I can't see unless I'm going completely blind.

If I select a thread from my favourites list in then when I arrive at the page there are no page numbers at the top, so I can't navigate through the different pages of the thread.

Other than that I wont bother criticising until the transition is complete, although it does hurt my eyes if I look at the site for too long right now.

[edit on 6-12-2006 by John Nada]

Originally posted by enjoies05
Nothing was wrong with the other look. Why change it?

Why climb a mountain?
Why vote in a new President?
Why change jobs?
Why remake Battlestar Galactica the series?


These are some of the other "whys" in the world and the common theme is change is for the better.

Change is good, refreshing, and yes...different. Don't fear change!

were not fearing change were fearing puppet head governenments

PLEASE CHANGE RECENT POSTS TO "HOT TOPICS" AND USE EYECANDY 4000 TO GETI IT A FLAMED FONT SO THAT WE CAN DISTINGUISH IT BETTERO N TEH TOOLBAR

I'm just posting something here to see if I can find the "edit post" button. I haven't been able to since the refit started, but someone earlier in the thread said something about it being difficult to see.

If I can't find it, I'm going to have to do a one-liner to confirm that.

AHA!!!! It's there now! Hoooray!

Yes, I have edited this post.

And ps, I hope that there are plans to make links a different colour again. I'd just decided that putting links inside the external links boxes looked rather cool... and now they are just cool... as in a polar bear on an ice sheet with its eyes shut and its paws over its nose. Invisible until you trip over it.

[edit on 6-12-2006 by rich23]