Love em, Hate em or just don't care, You wouldn't be here today without the UN.

The title says it all. Without the UN this planet would be a mass of radioactive fluff, coasting around the Sun. It was an avenue for the PTB to bring issues to the table, diplomatic solutions to be found. How the hell did we survive the Cold War? A lot of people didn't think we would. Nuclear war was a reality that everyday people lived with and feared.

Of course there were 2 players then, USA and USSR. Today only one exists as an ultimate force. That doesn't mean that Russia is limp, they are just evolving and China has a ways to go yet. Watch India too btw.

OK, so why is this in Poly Con? Well, there's no "yin" to the "yang" anymore. No one that can say to the US Administration, "HEY, hold up there." Ah, but yes there is, it's the UN. This admin cares little for the opinion of the UN. But what IS the UN. Represntatives of most of the countries of the world. So what does THAT say. Also, to engage in damn near any foreign affairs activity, you have to have a substantial base of support at home. Viet Nam proved that.

So my point is, and here's where the conspiracy comes in, this admin. has put the UN up as "the enemy". I haven't seen any US member of this board support the UN, maybe I missed it, but guess what folks, the US is PART of the UN.

What say you?

*Waits for the "Oil for Food" BS to begin*

Boy oh boy, I have a feeling this thread is going to get long fast...

I personally agree with you, intrepid, it's funny that we "don't need the UN" for things anymore, and we make so many demands out of the organization that we don't need.

Then we say, "you see! look how pointless that group is that we stole global peace from! shame on those representatives of other countries besides our own!

You'd have a WATS if I could give you one.

Originally posted by niteboy82
Boy oh boy, I have a feeling this thread is going to get long fast...

Or, it'll die because it's too close to the mark.

Well, look at what the UN was created to do. This excerpt is from the Charter Of The United Nations:

Article 1
The Purposes of the United Nations are:

To maintain international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace, and for the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace, and to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace;

To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;

To achieve international co-operation in solving international problems of an economic, social, cultural, or humanitarian character, and in promoting and encouraging respect for human rights and for fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language, or religion; and

To be a centre for harmonizing the actions of nations in the attainment of these common ends.

I haven't seen them doing much of anything like that for at least the past ten years. They may have had a purpose at one time, much like trade unions did, but they have become ineffective and corrupt.

Actually, I agree.

Whether we like it or not, the other nations of the world are in this organization. It has a lot of power (socially and economically) and some military power as well.

We can stay in it and use our voice and our vote in international politics, or we can move out of it and stand alone and lose our best netogiating power with other members of the UN.

Some of the issues we want addressed (as a nation) are being addressed because of the power the US wields in the UN. Polticis is a give and take business... if we leave and play isolationist policies, it will come back to bite where it hurts.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Well, look at what the UN was created to do. This excerpt is from the Charter Of The United Nations:

Article 1
The Purposes of the United Nations are:

To maintain international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace, and for the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace, and to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace;

To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;

To achieve international co-operation in solving international problems of an economic, social, cultural, or humanitarian character, and in promoting and encouraging respect for human rights and for fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language, or religion; and

To be a centre for harmonizing the actions of nations in the attainment of these common ends.

I haven't seen them doing much of anything like that for at least the past ten years. They may have had a purpose at one time, much like trade unions did, but they have become ineffective and corrupt.

That's EXACTLY my point jsobeckey. See this source

The fall of the yin to the US yang was in 1991. It became ineffective because the US couldn't care less.

Corrupt how? And by who's standards?

Also, your source:

To maintain international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace, and for the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace, and to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace.

That sure doesn't explain the situation in Iraq. Which btw, did NOT have UN approval. Again, my point.

What do you do then? Use the BEST avenue you have, ie: the media, to push the populous to a point that they disregard an organization that even THEY are a part of.

THIS is the conspiracy.

Edit: fixed link.



[edit on 25-11-2006 by intrepid]

Well, we can get into the corruption part if you want, but I'd rather concentrate on the whys and hows of their ineffectiveness.

One of the problems with the UN is it's design. The design of the Security Council almost guarantees a stalemate on the major issues facing the globe, like the constant war in the mideast.

I think that the world does need a collaborative body for debate. The problems arise with the will of the UN to enforce it's decisions. You mentioned Iraq. A classic example of UN failure. But it failed long before the US invaded Iraq, it failed in it's inability to make Saddam follow the 17 prior resolutions against him.

I'm speechless....

I would have never expected quite this from you Intrepid....

The United Nations are a joke and have been ever since their beginning. A grand idea, I'll give you that, but other than a token boys club, no..

They send their peacekeepers and then we go in and bail them out...

The appoint the Leader of Syria the head of the Human Rights Foundation????

Can't yet figure that one out.

The only reason Anann was against the war in Iraq, was the incredible amount of money he was making off the Oil for Food program..

Well, I guess we all have our opinions, this is one that dumbfounds me..

Semper

I think the UN was somewhat helpful during the Cold War era, but it's still going a bit too far to say we wouldn't be here if it had not existed. Why couldn't the U.S. and U.S.S.R. have held bilateral talks that were just as fruitful?

Now the UN is practically worthless, every P5 country is just looking out for their own interest (as jsobecky said) and really nothing important is ever resolved anymore.