Putin does it again!!! (poisoned spy)

The AP is reporting that another former KGB agent now jailed revealed in a letter to Litvinenko that Putin dispatched a secret hit squad after him and a select cadre of others.....

Detectives are investigating letters smuggled out of Russia purporting to show the existence of a secret squad set up to target poisoned spy Alexander Litvinenko and others.

Scotland Yard has been passed copies of two letters apparently penned in jail by former Russian intelligence officer Mikhail Trepashkin, in one of which Mr Litvinenko is warned that both he and his family are at risk.

Yep...Putin is soooo innocent here...check this out:

Mr Trepashkin tells his friend that he had met an FSB contact near a railway station in Russia who told him that a "very serious group" had been set up, which "will knock out all those associated with Berezovsky and Litvinenko".

Originally posted by maloy

The more I read about what this dissident spy did and said, the more I actually agree that this guy should have been taken care of. It's not because he criticized Putin, nor is it because he came up with outrageous accusations against Putin's administration. Primarily and above all this guy was a traitor, and he has betrayed and abused his position in the highest security department of FSB. He was entrusted with vital security information, and then he ran off to Britain with it. What did you expect FSB to do- look and nod in approval? If it was FSB that targeted him, I am surprised they didn't kill him earlier. I am sure intelligence agencies in US and Britain don't take very well to agents that betray them. If such dissent by high-ranking intelligence officials is allowed, then the intelligence business turns into a joke.

I don't think he was a traitor selling vital security secrets, he was part of the FSB 's criminal investigation department. To quote Wikipedia:

"In 1991, he was promoted to the Central Staff of the MB-FSK-FSB of Russia, specialising in counter-terrorist activities and infiltration of organized crime. He was awarded the title of "MUR veteran" for operations conducted with MUR (Moscow criminal investigation department). Litvinenko also saw active military service in many of the so-called "hot spots" of the former USSR and Russia and in 1997, he was again promoted to the Department for the Analysis of Criminal Organizations of the Russian FSB with the title of senior operational officer and deputy head of the Seventh Section. He was in charge of the protection of Boris Berezovsky, when Berezovsky held his government position. Contrary to many news reports, Litvinenko was never a 'spy' and did not deal with secrets beyond information on operations against organized criminal groups.[5]"

This is not a spy, he was investigating organized crime and corruption in the Russian government. Evidently, he stumbled across info that had connections to Putin and evidently led to his demise within the FSB. That is where his troubles began. He did not defect and profit from state secrets, he was, just from what I read, someone working to clean up the corruption that has become rampant in the fmr USSR. He obliviously found things he wasn't supposed which made enemies. I consider him a whistleblower, not a traitor. Whistleblowers can keep high ranking officials in check and expose the problems that people in power sometime succumb too. Execution for being honest and true to your country shouldn't be a capital crime.

Originally posted by behindthescenes
At what point do you shake off your chronic denial and admit that all the evidence is pointing to a Russian state-sanctioned hit?

I am not denying anything. In fact IF the Russians did it, I fully agree with their motives in this particular case. This guy had it coming to him for a long time now, and he perfectly knew it, and he failed to watch his back.

But there is absolutely no evidence yet linking it to Russian Authorities. Maybe to Russia, but not the Putin administration. There are some factions in Russia that I could think of besides Putin and the government that could have wanted Litvinenko dead. Of course it could also be the FSB acting without Putin's approval (he is their ex-agent after all not Putin's). But so far I have not seen any proof of either.

Putin is obviously the favorite scapegoat, especially in UK. Just blame it all on him, and let the media sort it out. The West has done a real neat job brainwashing people about Putin. Very few actually know what he is doing, and most importantly why he is doing it. But if you are so assured that it was Putin- not even evidence or lack thereoff will stop you. And if we assume that it was Putin- what exactly is the problem with it? It was not a political assasination. The guy wasn't a reporter or an elected official. He was a traitor and an ex-spy who likely participated in killings as well, and he got what he deserved.

Many people are quoting Russian ex-agents who allegedly have proof. Well what exactly makes you believe those agents. They were taught all their life to lie and deceive. Then they became disgruntled against the Russian government, and spread rumors which are not backed by any facts, or common sense in some instances. Many of these ex-agents are now working for someone else. Some for organized crime, some for dissidents like Berezovsky.

Originally posted by micklepickle
I don't think he was a traitor selling vital security secrets, he was part of the FSB 's criminal investigation department. To quote Wikipedia:

He was a senior intelligence officer, and he had access to a lot of critical information. Nobody exactly knows what his job was, or what exactly his department was tasked with. What is known is that at some point he turned against the very guys who were keeping him on the payroll- not a bright idea if you work for an organization like FSB. He alleges that he turned because of his moral convictions- not wanting to carry out an assignment. But where were his moral convictions during his prior years on the job, where he has likely witnesses some questionable activities?

Another theory is that this guy turned on his agency, because he was sponsored from someone outside (like some oligarch for instance). He was declared a criminal and ran from Russia before he was apprehended. And as if it was waiting for him, UK accepted him with open arms and a citizenship. Something is fishy about this guy and why he betrayed the FSB, because it was endeed a betrayal. With the information he possessed, he posed danger to Russia being a dissedent living in UK. In that sense he is a traitor, and he betrayed the trust of the FSB, which had even promoted him to a senior position. I can tell you that many Russians view people like him (and Berezovsky) as a traitor, and were not too disappointed in his death.

Malloy. I'm sorry but it is widely accepted that he had little to offer the West. If he had, he would not have gone through the run of the mill, very public, procedure of claiming asylum and being granted British citizenship. He would be living as a Slovak Academic in an Georgian country house in Wiltshire. Speaking as a Londoner, I am more than a little cheesed of that the lives of potentialy hundreds of my fellow citizens have been endangered by either Government Agents or sub-contracting criminals of the of the 'State' that was once Mother Russia.

Originally posted by Fang
Malloy. I'm sorry but it is widely accepted that he had little to offer the West. If he had, he would not have gone through the run of the mill, very public, procedure of claiming asylum and being granted British citizenship. He would be living as a Slovak Academic in an Georgian country house in Wiltshire. Speaking as a Londoner, I am more than a little cheesed of that the lives of potentialy hundreds of my fellow citizens have been endangered by either Government Agents or sub-contracting criminals of the of the 'State' that was once Mother Russia.

Well if everyone claims that it was the Russian agency than killed, then he must have done something to p*ss them off. And how would the public know if he had something of importance to offer to the West? I'd figure these things are kept private. And he did make claims that Putin's administration was responsible for apartment bombings that partly initiated the Second Chechen War. In the unlikely situation that these claims hold some truth to them, that is indeed critical information. There are also his claims about the assassinations of jounalists in Russia. However I think most of his claims were false.

This brings another issue about his poisoning. If his claims were false, and he knew very little about any actions by Putin's administration, then why kill him at all. All it would do, is give a hint that his allegations might have been correct. If his claims about Putin were correct on the other hand, why kill him with something like Polonium where-
1. you are not 100% sure about the outcome,
2. you give him the chance to live for several days or even weeks (alas in pain and suffering), enabling him to disclose his last secrets.
3. you attract as much attention to the issue as possible, where Putin obviously wants little or no attention paid to this guy's allegations.


And I am not happy about the possible side effects this Polonium had on anyone else. I understand why the British would be angered by this. However so far there is practically no evidence pointing to Russia at all. So blaming anyone at this point, is unpractical. The attention should be on evidence, and where it leads. If it leads to Russian agencies- shame on them. But then they would have known how easy Polonium is to trace. It it leads elsewhere you just might see this story drop from the newpages and be forgoten.

And in case it was Russia- I cannot understand why they would use Polonium of all things. It would be their fault that they used a substance that could endanger the health of others, and it would be very embarassing for the Russian authorities. And if you know Putin, he is not the kind of guy to get himself into situations of embarassment, so he could not have possibly ordered the use of Polonium.

Originally posted by maloy
Putin is obviously the favorite scapegoat, especially in UK.

Why wouldn't he be? Just look at his policies. Russia has tumbled politically backwards one decade in a space of six years. That's quite an accomplishment. The only reason UK hasn't completely severed ties yet is because it's not in their best interest.

Many people are quoting Russian ex-agents who allegedly have proof. Well what exactly makes you believe those agents. They were taught all their life to lie and deceive.

So you believe all other ex-KGB are capable of lying and deceit, and the biggest one of them all, Putin, is not? Give me a break!

Litvinenko's widow, Marina Litvinenko, was radiactive as well.

Litvinenko's Spetsnaz poisoner's middle name is Igor.


"a long hitlist"...

I wonder how sure they are that Igor is his middle name? Other news sources indicate someone with the first name Igor.

The name of the person in question is Igor Vlasov

www.focus-fen.net...

Poor google translation below, perhaps someone else can help with it?

a memorandum found to house of the former spy who contains an other name, that one of Igor Anatolyevitch Vlasov, a former soldier that would make part of a group of former former secret agents and commandos called “Dignity and Pride”, decided to defend half with every the good name of Russia, in native land and abroad. Will be Igor the sicario of the killing and Viktor sending? Also in order to follow this track men of Scotland Yard they will come to Rome, from where Vlasov would be passed.

www.ateneonline-aol.it...

Is the information a wild goose chase? Dunno.

I don't know what's going on with this case any more than any one else does, but there is a "spin", a potential, here that is really starting to "loosen my bowels".

Former KGB/FSB agent, most recently involved with investigating high-level organized crime, purported to include the smuggling of radioactive materials out of Russia, defects to UK, and begins campaign of criticism against his former boss, now the President of Russia.

This former agent is called to an urgent meeting by a former associate, Mario Scaramella, an Italian security expert and authority on nuclear Weapons smuggling, at a London sushi restaurant. The agent is shown a purported "Hit List" and informed that both he, and his meal-mate, are targeted for death by a former Russian Spetsnaz operative.

Shortly thereafter, the former agent fails ill and is hospitalized. He lives long enough, however to accuse the sitting President of Russia of murdering him.

The ex-agent, then dies, horribly of what is later determined to be radiation poisoning.

But Wait! There's more!

The radioactive substance used to execute this former spy is no run-of-the-mill radioactive material! No, this/these assassin(s) chose Polonium-210 as their method of mayhem/murder.

Sources indicate that world-wide annual production of Polonium-210 amounts to Less than 4 oz., by weight (Aprox 100 grams). Hens teeth are almost more plentiful!

All legitimate sources of this exceedingly rare and deadly material report no unusually large quantities sold, no missing inventories, and no thefts of the material. Russian authorities claim that the material requires specialized manufacturing procedures, and to their knowledge, there are only two places in the world possessing the capability to manufacture Polonium-210 in quantity; one in Russia and one in Canada.

And we are talking about a "significant" quantity of very rare Polonium-210 here; enough to poison one man to death, contaminate several other people who came in contact with him, and be detected at as many as two dozen separate locations in and about London, as well as up to three commercial airliners.

Remember, although Polonium-210 is legally available to the public for educational and commercial use, it is only offered in safely encapsulated forms. Attempting to release the material from is encapsulation would almost certainly result in the loss of the sample, at best, or self-contamination, and death, at worst.

Remember also, that, as sold to the public, the Amount of the material available in any single device is microscopic, and far below toxic quanity. A potential assassin would literally have to aquire and safely dissect Tens of Thousands of such devices just to gather enough Polonium-210 to kill one person. To acquire enough Polonium-210 by this method necessary to achieve the levels of contamination this incident purports would be the work of several lifetimes, in my opinion.

What has me worried is that there might be another source for Polonium-210 in sufficient quantities to have made this tragedy possible. A source stemming from another application for this very rare material.

A source which, to my mind, would seem to tie together Mr. Litvinenko, Mr Scaramella, the apparently large quantity of "Un-Missing" Polonium-210, and now, most ominously, a former Spetsnaz agent with an agenda to restore the "Pride" of the Motherland through murder: Polonium-210 can, and has been used as a neutron initiator to trigger the detonation of nuclear weapons.

Anyone recall those almost mythical Soviet "suit-case" nukes, about one hundred of which were supposedly smuggled out of Russia at the time of the Soviet collapse?

Weren't they supposedly to be deployed by Soviet Russian Spetsnaz forces behind "enemy" lines, the primary canidates for the status of enemy at the time being the USA and the the NATO forces, which included Italy and the UK?

I tend to agree that this whole sordid affair is too "high-profile" for a sitting politician, like Putin, to allow himself to be involved with.

Is it possible, however, that a former "Special Ops" officer, by definition a "true Patriot, Defender and, if necessary, Avenger" of his country might feel betrayed in some way, by both Letvinenko and Putin: seeking to kill one and discredit the other?

And if this former Spetsnaz officer still has access to nuclear triggers, what else might he have access to? Suit-case nukes? Nuclear torpedos?

There was a report that WMD experts from the American FBI had been called in by UK authorities to "help" with some of the details of this case.

How many more, if any, of us are on his hit list?

If someone has access to some suitcase nukes, with Polonium triggers/detonators, they will be very frustrated when they try to detonate one. They need to be maintained on a regular basis, due to the short half life of the Polonium.

However, if they have access to the suitcase nukes, and have access to fresh Polonium, that is a BIG concern.


Could that be one of the messages being sent? Dunno.

My car was designed to run on premium (91 octane) fuel, but will run almost as well on mid-range (89 octane) gas.

Now I realize that comparing a 12 year old car to a nuclear weapon (even if it is a German car) is a bit of a stretch, but...

Weren't those suitcase nukes supposed to be designed as "special ops" or more rightly termed, "terrorist" weapons? As such, I would expect them to be somewhat "rugged-ized" for rougher than normal handling, and to incorporate a certain degree of "field adaptability" into their design.

So, perhaps, although Polonium-210 might have been the material of choice, for the most effective detonation yeild, say: is it possible that other, more readily available materials might be employed, fashioned into trigger devices and swapped-in to replace the depleted Po-210 initiators, to allow for "worst-case" situations?

There would still be a detonation of the device, albeit smaller and less efficient.

[edit on 2-12-2006 by Bhadhidar]

This was in NY Post today

PLOT THICKENS AS SPY POISON IS TRACED TO A NUKE PLANT IN PUTIN'S RUSSIA
By ANDY SOLTIS
FROM RUSSIA WITH HATE: Nuclear experts say the radioactive poisoning that killed Alexander Litvinenko and that has been found on his wife, Marina, and friend Mario Scaramella (above) came from a Russian nuke plant.
December 2, 2006 -- High-tech detective work by British scientists has traced the radioactive poison that killed ex-spy Alexander Litvinenko in London back to a nuclear power plant in Russia - further fueling the belief that Russian President Vladimir Putin was behind the murder, it was reported yesterday.

The "fingerprint" of the fatal isotope was revealed by officials of the Atomic Weapons Establishment from the various London sites and British Airways jets that have been contaminated with traces of polonium-210, London's Evening Standard newspaper said.

Source

ThePieMan
Polonium is traced back to a Russian Nuke plant.

Although media reports that the Polonium has been traced to its origin in Russia, that has not been fully proven yet me-thinks.

The proposed location of origin has been reported in the news.

The radioactive isotope was brought from the city of Krasnoyarsk in Russia, and produced – in Zheleznogorsk or Zelenograd. This was confidentially reported by the Observer, UK.

Cracking polonium mystery: premature conclusions

Of course Russian experts have denied that it came from there.

Siberian scientists have dismissed the idea that a radioactive isotope allegedly used to poison a Russian ex-FSB officer in the UK could have originated in the Krasnoyarsk Territory.

Russian experts deny polonium-210 in UK has Siberian origin

Not saying it didn't come from there, but a bit more evidence for absolute proof is yet to come me-thinks.


In the meantime, tea anyone?



[edit on 12/2/06 by makeitso]

Reports of blackmail, dirty bombs, and other treachery are being discussed now.

'I can blackmail them. We can make money

'He told me he was going to blackmail or sell sensitive information about all kinds of powerful people including oligarchs, corrupt officials and sources in the Kremlin,' she said. 'He mentioned a figure of £10,000 they would pay each time to stop him broadcasting these FSB documents. Litvinenko was short of money and was adamant that he could obtain any files he wanted.'

Litvinenko proved he had sources in the heart of the Russian security services by producing what he said was a 100-page confidential FSB report from 2005 and forwarding it to Svetlichnaja, a politics student at the University of Westminster.

Was ex-spy trying to sell dirty bomb?

Scotland Yard detectives are now trying to discover if he had any secret links with Islamic extremist terror groups.

Their biggest fear is that the former Soviet spy, who died of polonium-210 poisoning in a London hospital, may have been helping Al Qaeda terrorists or other extremist groups get hold of radioactive material to be used in a devastating “dirty” atom bomb.

Oh what a tangled web we weave...

In a post I made on November 26, 2006, for the thread "Polonium-210: A Deeper Look" I wrote:

"I would not be suprised to hear, over the next few weeks, of growing concerns in the UK over the possible existence of a "dirty bomb". The official concern, the one Not expressed to the public, will be of something far more terrible."


Folks, it might just be time to grab a clean pair of knickers.

The media coverage in the UK is totally running amock with this story.There are so many different versions and information regarding the sysmptoms of the people he met.One minute they got it next they haven`t.One minute there gonna die next there fine with only low levels, which is normal as everybody in this country has small traces of the substance in there bodies.

Personnely i think he went rogue and figured the only way to highlight whatever info he knew was to kill himself.

His actions on the days before his death are hardly those of somebody who believed he was a target of Putin.He has put himself into the public eye and made himself look like a target.If he wanted to cause a storm in the public he certainly succeded.He knew excatly how govts would respond if he went into hiding and blown secrets to the British intelligence community.Nobody outside would have known.Dieing this way has put a question mark out and maybe time will reveal something to somebody before it gets covered.

Putins not that stupid that he hasn`t built an agency capable of killing a person more discretly than this.The substance used isn`t available on the black market.It can only be produced using a nuclear reactor or accelerator, its symptoms are obvious to medical investigation thus pointing the blame to only a few sources.Is this because Putin wanted to give a warning to any further person`s wishing to blow out.I doubt it as anybody with any info that would be sensitive would know the options open to Putin.He knew this, that is why l believe he used the media, left a trail to ensure further investigation and has left whatever he knew to the authorities enpowered to investigate further knowing that would never be made public.

One thing that did catch some attention is Russia stating that they sold there supply`s to the US.But this is in a media that isn`t allowed to report official secrets so that has no proof.

I`m also supprised that this story hasn`t blown out much around the world or for that matter this site.Guess the rest of the media either don`t/can`t report or that this mans death hasn`t any value.People seem to be more concerned that they may have somehow been exposed than the fact a major power has assasinated a member of it`s own making and what that person knew if anything.

If he was murdered l want to know what he knew that was so important Putin would risk using such a lethal substance this way.

I don't know the specifics of isotope half life(s) and such however, a thought occurred to me that what if he was an experimental "dirty bomb"! Not the kind that they were going to explode but more along the lines of an experiment to see how much of this iosotope it would take to, for want of a better term, infect the general public!! As I say I have no idea how or even if, this is possible; but it would seem to be the a pretty good delivery system once the finer points are worked out!!

No, a human being who has ingested this substance is a terrible delivery system because (like DU and other heavy metals whether radioactive or not) it must enter the body to be harmful. Unless he planned to provide shots of his urine in the few days he had left he would be a bad dirty bomb.

Personally, I believe the struggle for power in Russia continues. The cloak and dagger mentality of the average Russian male has been made clear to me with some Russian clients I have represented who came to a meeting armed with loaded weapons to discuss a pending lawsuit. And they were commercial fishermen not KGB, FSB or whatever.

No doubt things happen without Putin's knowldge or control however any suggestion that it is a coincidence that this happened considering the victim's history and criticism of the Kremlin is naive. But without question this goes deeper than a simple political hit and the message may be multilayered with multiple intended recipients. And if security agencies were not involved there would not be multiple stories out there. Disinfo is the imprimatur of "intelligence" agencies.

Either Putin is in control and is responsible or he is not in control and ... which is the less desireable possibility? Take a look at Iraq. Better with Saddam and a little murder and torture or better with chaos and anarchy? To me it is another of what will become a domino effect of failed (or seriously troubled) states which have been and are being caused by the USA's political machinations abroad since ... perhaps the Spanish American War.

The doctrine the US has slavishly followed 'my enemy's enemy is my friend' has required that we abandon, over time, the very principles of behavior applicable to both states and citizens which our founders espoused and confirmed legislatively and which our Supreme Court has honed over the centuries. This hypocrisy has reached its zenith (hopefully) with our present executive who believes he is a prophet of the Lord and can do no wrong despite how ever many hundreds of thousands he kills or condemns. It's the same failed policy simply taken to the next level.

The upshot is that Russia, having attempted to convert herself politically thanks to an insightful leader, was abandoned by the US which first coerced the changes. This is not much different from what we did in Iraq with our limited troop commitment and focus on the oil ministry. Anarchy was a foregone conclusion and it helps (or at least they thought it would) the present administration in perpetuating the terrorism myth which swayed the public towards accepting an unnecessary and costly war.

Russia likely needs a strongman like Saddam (Putin? - maybe) to control the worst of the worst in a corrupt system. Dubya would like nothing better than to be that strongman for us here in the good old US of A. He said so himself when he was first innaugurated in 2000. He believes he is the chosen one. God help us.