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Originally posted by jsobecky
I watched the video on abuse. Is the author saying that every one of those incidents happened in the US?
Originally posted by LoneGunMan
Why does it have to be just the US. We need to curb the growing police state here but this video shows what happens when you have small minded thugs that have athority.
Look at the illustration I posted earlier. Police do not need to dress like that, they only dress like that to instill fear. We need less fear and more love dont you think? We create the feeling of a lack of safety through the media. We fear each other, we fear our government, we fear the police, we fear terror and now we are even learning to fear our children.
Who you should ask yourself is pushing all this fear?
Originally posted by jsobecky
That's just being silly. Their dress is perfectly acceptable. It identifies them, instills authority and helps you to pick them out of a crowd.
As for the fear factor, I can only say that is your own personal psyche at work. Most people do not live in such a constant state of fear.
Originally posted by LoneGunMan
Wow, I mean just wow! Cat are you kidding me or what? I dont fear the police, I dont even get tickets for speeding, I carry a badge. YOU need to fear the police, I am warning people like YOU. I work with these guys all the time, heck just the other day I took Incident Command during a car-fire, at that point I give the police orders.
If police dressed like the illustration does not make you think, hmmm now why would they dress like that, is it to have identiy and authority? Or to make you afraid of them? Its not my psyche at work, its reality. I have a free pass. You dont.
Originally posted by osram
All i can say is that i had a very similar incident once and i can perfectly imagine how that guy felt from what i was able to read. He was absolutely no threat to them, so clearly their behavior has to be interpreted as abuse of power. Period.
It is our right to "test" our authorities. Because if we don't do it, even with ridiculously screaming around for instance, no one else will do it. So many people talking about protection and security.
It's crazy the people still are in favor of the cops in times where you can perfectly see the true threat and fascist face.. in the united states of america.
Shouting is no crime. Many people in here refer to "law".. Law which only applies to regular people but not the authorities or leaders.
If the cops were efficiently assigned to eliminate the true problems this would not happen in first place. They would not have the time for such pointless abuse of power and intimidation/humiliation.
Cops are human beings like all the rest of us with all of the flaws. We need to be protected. And not them.. Many cops are actually afraid of getting hurt. "Oh, wait.. if i really try to bust some true thugs, i could get heart.. let's just have a nice time and humiliate someone to waste time." Because while humiliating defenseless and righteous citizens they cant be shot or stabbed.
Think about it..
Originally posted by jsobecky
How do you arrive at this conclusion? Visitors to the library are required to present ID after 11PM. He either could not or would not.
Why couldn't/wouldn't he? Is it because he had mischief on his mind? We don't know, so how can you determine that he is no threat?
"Right to test our authorities?" Do you mean, create a situation that they need to respond to, and judge their reaction based upoun your predetermined idea of what is right? All you are doing is wasting resources and creating a potentially hazardous situation from some onlooker who decides to get involved.
Shouting can most certainly be called a crime, when it is done at an inappropriate time. It's called disturbing the peace.
Cops are not required to eliminate problems and make everything right. They don't have the time or the resources. They are there to establish and restore order.
What a load of crap. Cops go through more humiliation and life-threatening situations in a single month than most people go through in a lifetime. And so what if they are "afraid of getting hurt"? What a stupid statement. Ever have to wrestle down an HIV positive crack addict who is trying to scractch, bite, and spit on you?
I don't think you have thought about it.
Originally posted by osram
How i arrive at this conclusion? I had a very similar incident after being badly hurt. I won't get into this personal matter too deeply, but I challenged their way of handling a completely non-dangerous situation.
We cannot determine if he was no threat at all.. but we can determine that he was no PHYSICAL threat for 100%. You just fail to realize that "guilty unless prooved" is complete horse#. Use common sense.. forget your blurred opinions.
It doesn't necessary have to do with "creating" a situation. After all it's the cops who create the situation in first place; By deciding whom to ask for an ID, and whom not.
And after all they have the power. That's what you fail to realize. That's why it is called "abuse of power".
The citizen without uniform has not much to decide, apart from screaming or not. Screaming for help is no offense, it's no crime. It is simply a signal that something might be going WRONG.
So what you suggest is no control at all.
Shouting can most certainly be called a crime, when it is done at an inappropriate time. It's called disturbing the peace.
PEACE! Hilarious I am argueing with someone who talks about "disturbing the peace."
Cops are not required to eliminate problems and make everything right. They don't have the time or the resources. They are there to establish and restore order.
Well i suppose they are here to make everything wrong, then. Nice approach to improvements..
Errr. point 1. Humiliation: No.. Point 2: Life-threatening situations: Yes.
It's their job. Other people work with excrements all day long. And they chose to be cops. No one forced them to become a cop.
I dont think you will ever be able to think properly about anything fundamental at all.
Originally posted by jsobecky
Ahhh.... so that makes you an expert on this situation. Now I understand.
He was totally out of control before he was tased or cuffed. He was acting like a child, screaming at the top of his lungs. So your statement about not being a physical threat is wrong. That had not yet been determined.
And you fail to answer why he did not show them his ID.
No, once again you are wrong. He could have avoided this entire scenario by showing them his ID, instead of acting like a churlish little boy. Why didn't he?
No, that's what you and the little boy don't want to face. You want to take out your frustrations of feeling that you have no control of your life by acting tough to the cops.
You omit the most adult decision: to co-operate with their valid request for ID.
No, what you suggest is no rules. Anarchy.
Yes you are. I just shot down your false argument that shouting is not a crime.
Taking a statement and claiming that it's inverse must be true is the mark of ignorance.
How do you know that they do not experience humiliation? Are they not human beings?
And I'm glad that they chose their profession, which you have no respect for.
I dont think you will ever be able to think properly about anything fundamental at all.
Now now. No need to turn bitter just because you lost the argument.
Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Personally, I don't respect a position, I respect people. If a person in a specific position shows me that they don't deserve my respect, I won't give it to them. Respect isn't automatically earned by a badge.
Those holding the badge know this. That's why they try to either earn the respect of people, or instill fear through the badge. Fear is the easy route, and thus the way most tend to go. If they were had respected the individual, rather than trying to instill fear in him, maybe they wouldn't have had to bring out the weapons so soon.
Originally posted by jsobecky
He has a responsibility to act in a co-operative manner as much as the police do.
Originally posted by LoneGunMan
Originally posted by Majic
It is possible to question the way the police handled this case without being a cop hater, yobbo or bomb-throwing anarchist.
You mean like this?
I for one sir work with them nearly everyday, I do not hate them; I fear them as you should too. You wouldnt believe what they think of citizens...
They are not the cops we used to have, some are but too many have become miltary crazed and very heavy in the badge area...
[edit on 21-11-2006 by LoneGunMan]
Originally posted by SmallMindsBigIdeas
You talk about the cops being "badge heavy" ... but a few posts later your talking about getting out of speeding tickets by flashing a badge. Why not leave your badge in the center console and let the officer decide whether or not to give you a ticket without throwing your profession into the mix?