Impoverished black America: what was tupac?

i don't if many of you here on ATS ever listen to Tupac songs, he was a rapper that died in the 90s, and a major portion of his songs were usually about impoverished america, urban poverty, the black population, teen pregnancy, and other hardships caused by poverty. many albums were released postthumous to his death, they were recorded actually by him before his death, but he didn't get a chance to publish them. his first two albums, 2pacalypse now and strictly for my N.I.G.G.A.Z were filled with political messages and messages about how life is in ghettos, etc. the second two-three albums experienced a drift from a more political message, to a more "thug" "gangster" msg. they had some political msgs but were overpowered with anger on those who tried to shoot him in 1994, on those who put him in jail falsefly while they remained free. however the last album released by tupac before his death, Makaveli the Don Killuminati: 7 day theory, is a very dark and intense album containing 2Pac's most passionate and poetic works. He started once again to return to his commentary on social and political issues in this album. the album cover shows tupac being crucified, not for any disrespect to jesus christ, but as a figurative way of saying how the media has attacked him severly, or "crucified" him.

now to my true reason for this thread is not to give you a biography about tupac, but to ask what you think the role tupac played was?, what theories you might have about his death, or why he was killed, or even maybe he's not dead and all that was a cover up? i'm asking this because his messages were at least actually addressed by top government officials and recieved major media coverage, for instance in 1990, then vice president dan quayle commented on tupacs album 2pacalypse now as having no place in society, due it's strong political message. that album was a raw political album. and later on tupa recieved major political and media coverage and criticism all throughout his career.

so now lets what y'all think about what really happened to tupac. afterall he spoke the truth that many in america don't know about impoversihed U.S. maybe the government had somebody kill himso that he would stop already, i mean he has been framed to go to jail once with a rape case.and shot once in 1994(a failed plot to kill him) and then shot to death in 1996. plus the wierd reaction of the police that night, they didn't secure the crime scene, instead they went after the car that tupac was in which was being driven by shug knight away from the hospital which was only around the corner if htey went the right way. and there are many other things that didn't go as usual with his death, with his life, with his funeral, so what the hell happened to this guy!!!!!?

Killuminati was just plain no holds barred. Most definately his crescendo.

Tupac was just another rapper, rap'n 'bout life as a black man—and as a man.
His talent was overwhelming, and he had lots to say. Intelligent thoughts and words that deserve listening too.

I don't believe he was 100% correct in all his rhetoric, but nonetheless, he was a step above.

He was murdered because he played that game. The game that invites murderers to play. The tradgedy is that Tupac's murder was treated as just another black community drive by murder. That treatment needs no explaining.

One thing I do believe, is that his murder inspired many gang bangers to put down their guns.

I think the same thing to nexgtguyinline but don't discount that he might killed for what he said!!!! He knew to much and open to many eyes. Every rapper out know have no clue how to spit a good rap!!!!!!!!!! He did and he knew what he was getting into. I even remember when he said "the fed are out to get me" in a interview.

He could of changed a lot and exposed a lot of wrong in this country.

I am a big Pac fan and i know all about 2pac. the answer is that in 1194 he was 5 times and robbed of his jewerly, this happened because of his rivalry with Biggie smalls who killed 6 months after 2pac was killed by him through the connection between the crypt gang and corrupt police officers in LA. 2pac before he was killed got into fight with Orlando Anderson a Crypt who was in the hotel lobby and 2pac apprached and hit him then him and his entourage beat the crap out of him. He then left marion suge Knight hiss boss of the company, there were at a red light when a white benz pulled up in front of their car and open fired having a bullet graze suge knights head and shredding 2pac chest open. He then died later in the hospital. so there is a strong possibilty that the police were involved, one thing is the case was never investigated.

Originally posted by INc2006
maybe the government had somebody kill himso that he would stop already... shot to death in 1996. plus the wierd reaction of the police that night, they didn't secure the crime scene... so what the hell happened to this guy!!!!!?

First, a little extra info:

Shakur's mother Afeni was an active member of the Black Panther Party in New York in the late 1960s and early 1970s; Shakur was born just one month after his mother's acquittal on more than 100 charges of "conspiracy against the United States government and New York landmarks" in the New York Panther 21 court case.

en.wikipedia.org...

I've been working on a theory for a while. In much the same way that various black militia-type organizations were infiltrated by the CIA in the 70's (ostensibly the root of modern urban gangs), I think that rap was infiltrated.

I'm not sure when, exactly, but I believe the East Coast- West Coast drama was the fruition of the plan. I believe that Tupac's management company, Death Row, and Biggie's management, Bad Boy Entertainment, were somehow coerced into cooperating with the government. I believe that the desired end result was Tupac's death. I also believe that, unfortunately, Biggie was collateral damage, either required to make the cover story appear more plausible, or simply an escalation of forces, by that point, out of their control.

A conspiracist buddy of mine piggybacked another theory onto mine: that Tupac was just one of several killed by the government during the Clinton years in preparation for the Bush regime. JFK Jr. comes to mind as a prime example.

Damn!!!!!
HarlemHottie you thought this out!

I don't buy it, while it may make a good fiction novel I do not think it was anything other than the same Ignorance driven buy money and power that kills Men every day in the Ghettos. The amount of money transferd in a year due to drugs,crime,corruption and social programs could have gotten all of these people out of there and into good areas where their are jobs and a better life. But instead the money goes to gold teeth, Escalades,bling and more drugs.

Personally, I stick with the lesser believed theory that he was involved with gangs, drugs, and worse and was killed because of that. I really don't believe that he was killed because of his lyrical content. The simplest answer is generally the best answer

Then again, "I wrote this song a long time ago..."

Originally posted by factfinder38
The amount of money transferd in a year due to drugs,crime,corruption and social programs could have gotten all of these people out of there ...

Please start a thread about this. I would love to prove you wrong, but this is not the place. I'll start it if you want.

HH, your post has intrigued me. I would be interested to hear more of this theory. The East Coast/West Coast wars are a dark spot on on the history of the industry. It lost two major players in the game, and over what?

Well, that's something we would like to know for sure.

I am skeptical to think the government was involved, but having not researched it very thoroughly, it would be inappropriate to quickly assume either. I've always been under the impression this was just a tragedy of bickering between two rappers. For awhile, I was unsure if I believed Tupac was actually gone or in hiding. Maybe on the remote island with JFK? Right.

It is suffice to say both are gone, and the interpretation of what led to these deaths is wide open.

I look forward to hearing more of this conspiracy HH.

Originally posted by chissler
HH, your post has intrigued me. I would be interested to hear more of this theory.

Okay, Chissler, be gentle with me. This is my first theory.

The idea came to me while i watched the Biggie/Tupac Vh1 special for the zillionth time. It occurred to me that i had been thinking of the whole incident as what you said, a scar on the industry, and really sucky for hip-hop. The official story is too full of holes to be believable, a lot like 9/11. Then I realized, hey, I'm a conspiracy theorist!, and the wheels in my head just started churning.

On Tupac
The official story is that Orlando Anderson, the guy Tupac had just finished stomping out in the lobby of the MGM Grand shot him. Anderson, with ties to the Southside Compton Crips, had been involved in an altercation with members of Tupac's entourage three months prior. During said altercation, Anderson allegedly stole a chain belonging to one of the Bloods, which is why they fought when Tupac saw him.

Sounds reasonable, until you look closer. Anderson was based in LA. What was he doing in Vegas? What was he doing in Vegas, at the same exact boxing match as Tupac? In such a crowded venue, what was the likelihood that they would run into each other? Further, how did Anderson locate Tupac, once he finished getting beat down? Did he know what car they were driving, which direction they were going, when they had left the MGM, and how fast they were going?

I'm not buying it, and neither are a lot of other people.

This story has since been contradicted several times, and is seen generally as a decoy device by those who believe Suge Knight conspired to kill Tupac Shakur. Shakur's bodyguard Frank Alexander says his life was threatened by associates of Death Row when he "refused to corroborate the story [of the chain-snatching]." This would imply that Anderson had killed Tupac for different reasons.
en.wikipedia.org...

So, Death Row (aka Suge Knight) wanted Alexander to lie about the chain-snatching. Why? Sounds like someone is trying to create a motive, one that would point to Anderson/Crips, as opposed to another potential suspect. Why? Because to implicate the Crips is to implicate Biggie.

...in a notable (but highly disputed) 2002 investigation by the Los Angeles Times, writer Chuck Phillips claimed to have uncovered evidence implicating Wallace in the murder. In the article, Phillips quoted unnamed gang-member sources who claimed Wallace had ties to the Crips, often hiring them for security during West Coast appearances. Phillips' informants also state that Wallace gave the gang members one of his own guns for use in the attack on Shakur, and that he put out a $1 million contract on Tupac's life.
en.wikipedia.org...

Well, then! That's pretty damning for Biggie, or libelous. Unfortunately, we'll never know because all the loose ends were tied up nice and neat.

By the time Phillips' specific allegations were published, however, Wallace himself had been murdered

Oh, and Anderson was shot and killed 14 months after Biggie's murder.

The last man standing in this shooting gallery is Suge Knight... although, to be fair, he was also injured in the shooting that killed Tupac.

Knight's story in the aftermath of Shakur's death was questionable: medical reports contradicted Knight's claim that a bullet from the attack had lodged in his skull, and he also said in an interview that even if he knew who murdered Shakur, he wouldn't rat anyone out to the police.
en.wikipedia.org...

On Biggie
According to Russell Poole, the former LAPD detective investigating Biggie's death, all roads lead to Suge Knight or, more accurately, a sect of Bloods associated with Knight.

After months of investigating and substantial amounts of evidence, Poole accused an LAPD officer, David Mack, along with his friend Amir Muhammad, of being complicit in the murder. Poole had proof that Mack had ties with the CEO of Death Row Records, Suge Knight....Poole sent this information to the chief of the Los Angeles Police Department, Benard Parks, who ordered Poole to stop all investigation on Mack as Mack had been arrested for bank robbery in December 1997 and was on his way to prison.

So, Suge Knight appears again, this time with a connection to the LAPD, David Mack. Mack, obviously corrupt, also seems to have friends in high places. Look at how the police chief protects him from being implicated in Biggie's murder.

Here's the chain of implication thus far:
Various gangs, sent to do the dirty work-->Suge Knight, ground level organizer -->David Mack (police officer), middleman-->Benard Parks (police chief), protection.

Now, the question is, who was controlling Police Chief Parks?

There's more, but I want to see what everyone thinks about it first. Plus, I'm tired.

I like it.

Your theory is fathomable to say the least. I think I'll have to look into this event. I've looked into it a few times, but with the lack of spotlight it receives in our media today, sometimes it becomes easy to forget about it.

The discrepancies of his death are too much. I could see if their were a few loose ends, but this one has its fair share. Now the lyrical content of his songs are certainly enough to raise questions, but thats only skepticism. He was pronounced dead on Friday the 13th, again pure coincidence in my opinion. However there are some solid facts here that raise questions.

Suge Knight never showed up for questioning after the shooting. Why? Something to hide?
Tupac's funeral was unexpectedly canceled without reason. Why?
No pictures of him in the hospital were ever released. In today's day and age, there is a picture of everyone and everything.
Tupac publicly acknowledged he wore a bullet proof vest. Why did he take it off for the Tyson fight?

My personal favorite is the fact he was shot on the damn strip in Vegas. Chris Rock pokes fun at this in one of his routines. He says that more people saw Pac get shot than the last presidential election. They can find Saddam Hussein in a damn whole in the middle of Iraq, but can't find out who shot Pac.

Maybe they don't want to know. Inside job? Is Knight involved?

How the hell does 13 rounds get fired into Knights BMW, Tupac get hit four times, and he only get grazed? Conspiracy or not, this is strange.

Sad though. Tupac was different. Different then Biggie, and everyone else to come since. His lyrics, his beat, his stage presence, on or off camera, you name it he was just different than anyone else. He was a step ahead in all aspects. When I was younger, I was introduced to Rap by listening to his music. As a kid who was fed country time and time again, Tupac's songs were probably the first that I actually heard the lyrics. It wasn't a song, it was a message to the listener.

Someday I would like to know the truth. Maybe we'll be congratulating HarlemHottie for her work on uncovering the truth.




[edit on 13-11-2006 by chissler]

hey i found this website right here, really good, and has many "leads" and theories that pac faked his own death... hey in one of the songs he congratulates some team that they won some cup in a year after his "death" i have to read the page again to remember the team and the cup adn the year, but it's all there on this website, y'all can read it:

members.aol.com...

here's some more webistes:

www.tupac4u.de...
www.pointlesswasteoftime.com...

there's a whole bunch more if you wanna look it up on google, they're countless!!!

Tupac is dead, He is my favorite rapper. I am african american,

proof Tupacs atuospy

External Image

He is dead, He was a thinker he wrote songs about diffenret situations. Like his song aint hard 2 find. it came out in 1995.
I heard a rumour I died, murdered in cold blood dramatized
Picutes of me in my final stage you know Mama cried
But that was fiction, some coward got the story twisted
Like I no longer existed, mysteriously missin
Although I'm worldwide, baby I ain't hard to find
Why I spend most of my time on California crime
Watching for thievin I'm cautious it's like I'm barely breathin
Puttin a bullet in muther#ers give me a reason
See me and hope I'm intoxicated or slightly faded
You tried to play me now homicide is my only payment
I'm addicted to currency in this life I lead
Why the # you cowards be runnin, too scared to fight a G
For the life of me, I cannot see
How mother#ers picture livin life after a night of #in around with me
And if you don't like this rhyme
then bring your big bad ass to California, cause we ain't hard to find

The thing about is it came out a year before he died. In his documetary he said he recored 3 songs a day becasue he knew he will not live a day after 25. Also He was said to come back 7 years after his death, it never happened. All the 7 day theory myths are lies. I think his producers are trying to keep the mystry out there so they can sell more records.

Also there is video proof of Suge knights hitmens (the police) admitting to killing biggie and Tupac. The movie In part 7 the book keeper admits in transfering the moneys to suge knight to setup the hit too kill biggie.

Originally posted by TheOne1989
I am a big Pac fan and i know all about 2pac. the answer is that in 1194 he was 5 times and robbed of his jewerly, this happened because of his rivalry with Biggie smalls who killed 6 months after 2pac was killed by him through the connection between the crypt gang and corrupt police officers in LA. 2pac before he was killed got into fight with Orlando Anderson a Crypt who was in the hotel lobby and 2pac apprached and hit him then him and his entourage beat the crap out of him. He then left marion suge Knight hiss boss of the company, there were at a red light when a white benz pulled up in front of their car and open fired having a bullet graze suge knights head and shredding 2pac chest open. He then died later in the hospital. so there is a strong possibilty that the police were involved, one thing is the case was never investigated.

Suge knight was not hit by any bullets. He was hit by glass. Aitn it obvious if the assilants shot 22 times and didnt hit suge once they were trying to kill tupac. Also Suge Knight told Tupac to take off his bullet proof vest, before they left the mike tyson fight. If he wore it he would of probably survived.

Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid
Personally, I stick with the lesser believed theory that he was involved with gangs, drugs, and worse and was killed because of that. I really don't believe that he was killed because of his lyrical content. The simplest answer is generally the best answer

Then again, "I wrote this song a long time ago..."

Tupac wasnt even a gang, his lyrics were not bad. people think he was a bad man. He was one of the kindest brightest men ever to live. let me post up some of his lyrics.
on of his most touchiest songs ever. It speaks of poverty, gang violence, and drugs.
ome on come on
I see no changes wake up in the morning and I ask myself
is life worth living should I blast myself?
I'm tired of bein' poor and even worse I'm black
my stomach hurts so I'm lookin' for a purse to snatch
Cops give a damn about a negro
pull the trigger kill a nigga he's a hero
Give crack to the kids who the hell cares
one less ugly mouth on the welfare
First ship 'em dope & let 'em deal the brothers
give 'em guns step back watch 'em kill each other
It's time to fight back that's what Huey said
2 shots in the dark now Huey's dead
I got love for my brother but we can never go nowhere
unless we share with each other
We gotta start makin' changes
learn to see me as a brother instead of 2 distant strangers
and that's how it's supposed to be
How can the Devil take a brother if he's close to me?
I'd love to go back to when we played as kids
but things changed, and that's the way it is

I see no changes all I see is racist faces
misplaced hate makes disgrace to races
We under I wonder what it takes to make this
one better place, let's erase the wasted
Take the evil out the people they'll be acting right
'cause both black and white is smokin' crack tonight
and only time we chill is when we kill each other
it takes skill to be real, time to heal each other
And although it seems heaven sent
We ain't ready, to see a black President, uhh
It ain't a secret don't conceal the fact
the penitentiary's packed, and it's filled with blacks
But some things will never change
try to show another way but you stayin' in the dope game
Now tell me what's a mother to do
bein' real don't appeal to the brother in you
You gotta operate the easy way
"I made a G today" But you made it in a sleazy way
sellin' crack to the kid. " I gotta get paid,"
Well hey, well that's the way it is

[Bridge]

[Talking: ]
We gotta make a change...
It's time for us as a people to start makin' some changes.
Let's change the way we eat, let's change the way we live
and let's change the way we treat each other.
You see the old way wasn't working so it's on us to do
what we gotta do, to survive.

And still I see no changes can't a brother get a little peace
It's war on the streets & the war in the Middle East
Instead of war on poverty they got a war on drugs
so the police can bother me
And I ain't never did a crime I ain't have to do
But now I'm back with the blacks givin' it back to you
Don't let 'em jack you up, back you up,
crack you up and pimp smack you up
You gotta learn to hold ya own
they get jealous when they see ya with ya mobile phone
But tell the cops they can't touch this
I don't trust this when they try to rush I bust this
That's the sound of my tool you say it ain't cool
my mama didn't raise no fool
And as long as I stay black I gotta stay strapped
& I never get to lay back
'Cause I always got to worry 'bout the pay backs
some buck that I roughed up way back
comin' back after all these years
rat-a-tat-tat-tat-tat that's the way it is uhh

[Bridge 'til fade

another song brendas got a baby
Brenda's got a Baby
Brenda's got a Baby

I hear Brenda's got a baby
Well, Brenda's barely got a brain
A damn shame
Tha girl can hardly spell her name
(That's not her problem, that's up ta Brenda's family)
Well let me show ya how it affects tha whole community
Now Brenda never really knew her moms and her dad was a
junky
Went in debt to his arms, it's sad
Cause I bet Brenda doesn't even know
Just cause your in tha ghetto doesn't mean ya can't grow
But oh, that's a thought, my own revelation
Do whatever it takes ta resist tha temptation
Brenda got herself a boyfriend
Her boyfriend was her cousin, now lets watch tha joy end
She tried to hide her pregnancy, from her family
Who really didn't care to see, or give a damn if she
Went out and had a church of kids
As long as when tha check came they got first dibs
Now Brendas belly is gettin bigger
But no one seems ta notice any change in her figure
She's 12 years old and she's having a baby
In love with tha molester, whose sexed and crazy
And yet she thinks that he'll be with her forever
And dreams of a world with tha two of them are together,
whatever
He left her and she had tha baby solo, she had it on tha
bathroom floor
And didn't know so, she didn't know, what ta throw away and
what ta keep
She wrapped tha baby up and threw him in tha trash heep
I guess she thought she'd get away
Wouldn't hear tha cries
She didn't realize
How much tha little baby had her eyes
Now tha babys in tha trash heep balling
Momma can't help her, but it hurts ta hear her calling
Brenda wants ta run away
Momma say, you makin' me lose pay, tha social workers here
everyday
Now Brenda's gotta make her own way
Can't go to her family, they won't let her stay
No money no babysitter, she couldn't keep a job
She tried ta sell crack, but end up getting robbed
So now what's next, there ain't nothin left ta sell
So she sees sex as a way of leavin hell
It's payin tha rent, so she really can't complain
Prostitute, found slain, and Brenda's her name, she's got a
baby

Tupac spokje the truth one of his best speeches ever. Very touchy
Turn speakers up
Also best documentary botu his whole life
Tupac - Thug Angel - Life Of An Outlaw