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Impoverished black America: what was tupac?

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posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 12:41 AM
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Originally posted by chissler
Your theory is fathomable to say the least.

The highest praise possible for a theory.




I could see if their were a few loose ends, but this one has its fair share.

Except for people who could corroborate the official story. Those ends have all been tied up, except for Suge, and he's already stated that he won't snitch... of course, that raises the question, is it “snitching” if the authorities did it?



He was pronounced dead on Friday the 13th, again pure coincidence in my opinion.

That is only a coincidence to sensible, non-murderous, non-Illuminati members (or whichever group they're associating themselves with now). From 9/11 and Madrid, we know they love their symbolism, so, while it's just a coincidence to us, we should definitely consider that other people are... well, crazy.



My personal favorite is the fact he was shot on the damn strip in Vegas.

Yeah, right? The fact that he got shot in a very public place brings to mind the phrase “hiding in plain sight.” That seems to be the MO of the people who killed both Kennedy's, MLK, and Malcolm. Of course, I don't know who exactly did it, but it would appear that they all received the same training (CIA, maybe?).

(Oh, and that Chris Rock skit is funny)



How the hell does 13 rounds get fired into Knights BMW, Tupac get hit four times, and he only get grazed?

Especially given the fact that Suge Knght is so large. You would think he took up most of the front seat and, by default, would have caught at least one bullet, or been grazed. As I understand it, gang members aren't known for their aim, so it is mighty curious how he didn't get wounded.



Different then Biggie, and everyone else to come since.

Definitely. That's why my antennae started twitching. Pac... he was all of us.


When I was younger, I was introduced to Rap by listening to his music.

Me too. I grew up in Harlem, and I have an older brother, so I heard plenty of rap, but it was kind of like white noise. Personally, I liked r&b at the time (which, incidentally, isn't that far from country). When I heard Brenda's Got A Baby, I was pleasantly surprised by the fact that at least one of the “thugs” realized how bad they treated women. I was hopeful for this generation and our future.

Oh, and I found this. Looks like someone else thought this should be looked into. Unfortunately, though, she's no longer in government.



Modeled after the famed “John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act,” McKinney’s newly-introduced bill would allow public access to privileged details of hip-hop cultures late rap icon Tupac Shakur’s (2Pac) life and death.

Congresswoman McKinney, the Democratic representative of the 4th District of DeKalb County, Georgia, based her “Tupac Shakur Records Collection Act” on the premise that "all government records related to the life and death of Tupac Amaru Shakur (2Pac) should be preserved for historical and governmental purposes."

...

Rep. McKinney called for the legislation during the Congressional Black Caucus "Brain Trust" panels on "Countering Culture: COINTELPRO Attacks on Political Musicians" that addressed the remaining unsolved murders and strange deaths of Paul Robeson, Jimmi Hendrix, Bob Marley, hip-hop rap artists Tupac Shakur (2Pac) and Biggie Smalls, among others, and government attacks on the Hip-Hop generation.

Congresswoman McKinney has said “His family and his family of fans have the right to know what happened on that fateful night. The public has the right to know because he was a well-known figure. There is intense public interest in the life and death of Tupac Shakur.”

Cynthia McKinney Provides Update on Tupac Shakur Bill Introduced to U.S. Congress



H. R. 4210: Tupac Amaru Shakur Records Collection Act of 2005'




posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 01:10 AM
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You know, I hope this is apprpriate, but anyone should get HIgh and listen to Thug Luv. Now, I have heard all of the stuff that HH Talked about but I belive Tupacs Father had more to do with the Panthers than his mother, or at least that is how I understand it. I am just trying to remember a project that my good friend did in High School on Tupac. I know this for shure that you need to read between the lines in his "raps". He was a great poet. He talked about some serious stuff. See I have a consprious mind in that I think that Thug Luv was completly aimed at the Government that Placed them into the position so that they had to bang (maby not them but others in this great country). Obviously I don't know for shure but that is what I think. All the crap talking aside Gangster rap did put the reallity of Povershed America on T.V. and made Idols of those who talked the talk. America, all of not just "white america", have been fasinated with it since. I belive Tupac knew what was up and told as much as he could at the time. I mean if you look at Young Bucks Shorty Wanna Ride full lenghth video with him knocking down the door of the Illuminati what can you say about that. Were these guys (as well as many others) just getting out the message to those that would listen? What Demographic were these people aiming to wake up and look? See I never would have known about Dead Prez without Tupac.

[edit on 14-11-2006 by Brand403]



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 02:39 AM
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Your contribution to this topic was outstanding.

You have voted Brand403 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.


Originally posted by Brand403
I belive Tupacs Father had more to do with the Panthers than his mother, or at least that is how I understand it.

You're right, but I couldn't find a source, so I didn't want to risk my whole theory. I like to back up everything.



I think that Thug Luv was completly aimed at the Government that Placed them into the position so that they had to bang (maby not them but others in this great country).

I will have to go into the archives and give it a re-listen. And I agree with your comment about the government. I've been trying to introduce the idea here, but without much luck. I'll keep trying.



I mean if you look at Young Bucks Shorty Wanna Ride full lenghth video with him knocking down the door of the Illuminati what can you say about that.

I know exactly what you're talking about! I saw it too! I thought I was seeing things for a minute.




Were these guys (as well as many others) just getting out the message to those that would listen? What Demographic were these people aiming to wake up and look?

You would be surprised. Black people are huge conspiracy theorists. Unlike other Americans, we have always known for a fact that the government hated us, that feeling intermittently interrupted by short intervals of false hope. That's the first step. Once you know the gov't doesn't care about you, it's only one short step to imagining how they plan to screw you. That's what happened to the rest of the country after we saw all those Americans killed on 9/11 and really investigated the gov't story. We all realized, they don't give a # about us. Well, slavery, Jim Crow, Tuskegee, and COINTELPRO gave black people plenty of reasons not to trust the government.



See I never would have known about Dead Prez without Tupac.

I have their first album. They are, by far, the most 'conscious' rappers out there right now. For those who aren't familiar with them, here's some background.

dead prez




10/26/06

Last week in New York, hundreds of citizens gathered for a town hall meeting on the future of diversity in the nation’s media. Speakers included several artists and activists from the hip hop community. We play a speech from M-1 of the rap group dead prez.

...

I’m here to say that we’re sick and tired of not having voices that reflect exactly our reality in our community. We’re are sick and tired of that. And we’re also sick and tired of being bombarded with senseless and useless and meaningless messages that don’t do anything but drive forward this capitalist machine and get us to spend more and more. That’s not what we want to hear.

Hip Hop Artist M-1 of Dead Prez: "The Media in This Country is an Organ of the State... It Controls What We Are Hearing and Seeing"


Again, welcome to ATS!



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 10:50 AM
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Thank you for the praise I am new to this site and I particulary think that it is excelent. I want to say that I have not done any substantial research on this subject and I am just freely speaking.

See what I then start to think about is that: Who is limiting what Artists say? You know you always hear Eminem and others Complaining about that he cannot say this or that... Usually one would think that yea, all he is doing is slandering and that is bad. Which I agree; some of the stuff that I have listened to is horrible, more of a slap in the face to my self that this stuf exist. It still is MY CHOICE wether or not to listen to it, and it should not be anybodys elses. So now we have a reason why mainstream artist lyrics have to be "Edited". Cause they hurt people. HAHA How do word hurt; didn't your mother ever teach you the old saying that sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will never hurt me.
So what I am getting at is that there ARE people telling these artist what they can and cannot say and Show. Notice you don't ever see that version of Shorty wanna ride. I am sure that there plenty other examples of the same thing that I have not researched. And Who are these people? Who gives them the rights to do so? Yea the Artist signed a contrat with the Label but why don't these artists, that are consious of the world around them, start producing videos for MTV with their own money. Or have they tried and ClearChannel, Verizon, Qwest, Comcast, etc... will not play them. Its like the old CB4 movie when the manager guy says you cannot say "@$#^%@, @^@^#, @^## or %@$@$" on STAGE. Is the producer of the movie really saying that they cannot say "Illuminati, Skull and Bones, The Pope, or Socialism". Goes back to the incarnation of actors for being so called "communists" because they talked about the subject.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 08:28 PM
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great response, i never seriously researched the subject really, but i was looking to see what people on ATS know, and y'all seem to know a bunch. anyway i still think tupac is alive, myabe he'll be back at christmas or new years eve. plus in one of the websites i gave, there was an article in the TIMES NEWSPAPER that tupac was seen by many people at an LA mall(don't remember which one) with an entourage of many rappers and others. but nevertheless, i don't exactly believe all thexze theories 100% but maybe 60%-70%, and that's not that bad. some of the best songs i heard that talk about many cases that happen in impoversished america is changes, Keep ya head up, White manz world, letter to the president, and i wonder if heaven got a ghetto, and i'm sure there's many more, but those are the ones i can remember right now. white manz world also has qoutes from many revolutionary leaders, however i couldn't find who they are.

the qoutes in white manz world are fascinating, and here they are, from how many times i listened to the song i memorized it whole with the qoutes!:

1st qoute(by tupac himself): "yes! yahs! no doubt! all my ghetto mo**erf**krs be proud to be black, if you proud to have this sh*t like this, cuz nobody got it like this, all these mo**erf**k*r wanna be like us, they all wanna be like us, to be the have nots, all here, god bless the child that can hold his own, no mo**erf**kin' doubt!!"

2nd qoute: "we must fight for brother emile, we must fight for brother m'hutula, we must fight for brother muccio magee, we must fight for brother geronimo pratt, we must fight... for bridget moore.... we must fight for the cultless political prisoners... being locked up falselly by all these white men"

3rd qoute: "you outta touch with reality! for a few of you in a few smoke filled rooms , calling that the mainstream, while the masses of the people, white and black, red, yellow, and and brown, ALL! are vulnerable and suffering in this nation"

4th qoute(by tupac himself): " never that! in this white manz world, they can't stop us , we been here all this time, they ain't took us out, they can never take us out!, no matter what they say, about us being extinct, about us being endangered species, we ain't never gonna leave this, we ain't never gonna walk off this planet.. unless your choose to! use your brains, use your brains! it ain't them thats killing us, it's us that's killing us, it ain't them that's not gonna solve, it's us thats not gonna solve, i'm tellin you you better watch it or be a victim, be a victim in this white manz world..."

5th qoute: "the seal and the constitution reflect the thinking of the founding fathers, that this was to be a nation by white people... and for white people, Native Americans, Blacks and all other non-white people were to be the burden bearers for the real citizens of this nation"



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 08:30 PM
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the names in the second qoute are not spelled right cuz i don't know how to spell em right sry...



posted on Nov, 15 2006 @ 08:45 PM
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i remember i read somewhere that the album thug life whic has only 10 songs in it, in fact had many more songs, and was supposed to be a two-disc album, but the record label saw the other songs "too controversial" to publish. i don't get this, isn't the US supposed to be a country were free speech is allowed and protected, then why the hell would we not publish something because it's "too controversial" this is just bull...



posted on Nov, 15 2006 @ 09:34 PM
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I love the diversity and culture I'm finding the more I delve into this website. I honestly never even considered learning about Tupac, and it never crossed my mind to research the controversy surrounding his tragic death. I have immense respect for you and your research HarlemHottie, and I congratulate you and thank you on opening my mind to a new wealth of information that I can find studying the life and death of a great artist. Perhaps with your research and the research of others who share your beliefs Tupac's death, as tragic as it was, can be as impactful on society as his life was. I can't claim to know anything about it yet, but I'm getting that tingling sensation in my brain that I get when a door opens to a plethora of new ideas in my pursuit of truth.



posted on Nov, 15 2006 @ 09:39 PM
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Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid


Then again, "I wrote this song a long time ago..."


roflmao



posted on Nov, 15 2006 @ 11:06 PM
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oh yeah i never thanked HH for those theories and stuff... i really liked reading them! keep it up



posted on Nov, 15 2006 @ 11:36 PM
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Originally posted by Brand403


I think that Thug Luv was completly aimed at the Government that Placed them into the position so that they had to bang (maby not them but others in this great country).


There are those in power who still believe that 'other people' do not belong in a position that would allow them to gain a position of power and influence. The Black community has been held back through welfare, the availability of drugs, and the dumbing down of the educational system. Its time to throw away the chains that bind you, cast off the fetters, THINK, LEARN, TAKE CHARGE OF YOUR LIVES, WAKE UP!!!


Change the system by becoming the system.



posted on Nov, 15 2006 @ 11:42 PM
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Originally posted by INc2006
oh yeah i never thanked HH for those theories and stuff... i really liked reading them! keep it up

Thank you, of course, but no need. That's what we're here for.


I'm doing a little digging on Tupac's father now, thanks to Brand's tip. When I find something, I'll post it, but please, everyone, if you're interested, look into another aspect. There are still lots of unanswered questions, and I know the group here is talented enough to get to the bottom of things.

As a compilation of sorts, here's a list of competing theories.

One:

Originally posted by INc2006
he spoke the truth that many in america don't know about impoversihed U.S. maybe the government had somebody kill himso that he would stop already...

OP's original theory. There's already some evidence in this thread, but we would definitely need more. So far, it's all circumstantial (I think, is that the right legal term? I've been slacking on my Law&Order).


Two:

Originally posted by nextguyinline
Tupac was just another rapper... He was murdered because he played that game. The game that invites murderers to play.

This is still a possibility. 'Suge n'em' could have been involved, sans LAPD. (I'm sticking with Suge as the 'inside connection' because he was there and wasn't even grazed.)

The basis of it is, How much evidence does one require to conclude that the government was actively involved in, specifically, planning and orchestrating his murder? My own bar is pretty low, so I'm probably not the best person to answer that.

Three:
And, afterall, there's still the theory that he's still alive, which I believed/ hoped for a while myself. That should definitely be investigated too. As I understand it, a lot of the Black Panthers who were "wanted" by our government fled to Cuba. He could be there for all we know, there could be a trail, and we're the best qualified to scout ut out.



posted on Nov, 16 2006 @ 11:04 PM
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i'm no conspiracy theorist, but as far as i know if you wanna prove in a court of law that the government orchestrated the death of somebody, well i bet you can't, bcause you can't sue a government body, so what you ahve to do is find the perosn that ordered and that did the murder adn then you can sue somebody, or prove anything in a court of law. but as far as people and convincing them, all you need is to find some strong connection adn motive to his death and the governemnt and people would believe it, and it would be true. for instance one thing would be how the cops ran after suge knights car instead of securing the scene. or such as how there was a complete lack of witnessing even thouhg they were in LAS VEGAS!!! like Chris rock says "where were all these people when 2pac got shot?" and many others, and ofc ourse there's the connection to suge knight, i don't think whoever was shotting, was really that careful not to hit suge, all this has been posted on here before, so i'm just reciting things to show that there are some connections but nothing is a fact and something that has long been used as concrete facts, rather than thoughts and products of logical thinking. so we can know that the gov. killled pac but we need more prove if we are to actually make something happen, but hey if we're really serious about this, i'm sure the media will buy the story if we get a little more info and "facts" lol....!



posted on Nov, 17 2006 @ 01:11 AM
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Originally posted by INc2006
i'm no conspiracy theorist, but as far as i know if you wanna prove in a court of law that the government orchestrated the death of somebody, well i bet you can't, bcause you can't sue a government body

Actually, I think you can sue the government for wrongful death.

Isn't that what the 9/11 widows tried to do?

But that's not really the point. This government never pays for the stuff they do, but if they offered, I would ask them to fess up to 9/11, a botched war in the ME, a botched war on drugs, a botched war on poverty....

The point here, I think, is to serve as a repository for theories. Then, we pick them all apart, and decide on the best one, meaning the theory with the least holes. The next time someone googles "Who killed Tupac," they might find this thread.

Remember, sites like this one encourage a lot of people to look a little deeper into political conspiracies, like 9/11, JFK.



posted on Nov, 17 2006 @ 01:31 AM
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I don't think that egomaniac gangsters should be role models for anybody. He was an entertainer and his shtick got him lots of money. That doesn't make him the Black Jesus or something that others should emulate.



posted on Nov, 17 2006 @ 03:38 AM
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groingrinder,

Calm down. Nobody here is glorifying his 'gangster-ism.'

We're looking into a crime, a murder, that has never been investigated. Actually, two.

Perhaps you don't think we should invest our time in this, but it's our time to waste.



posted on Nov, 17 2006 @ 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by Lysergic

Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid


Then again, "I wrote this song a long time ago..."


roflmao



I love Dave, Thats hilarious.



posted on Nov, 17 2006 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by 2stepsfromtop
Originally posted by Brand403


I think that Thug Luv was completly aimed at the Government that Placed them into the position so that they had to bang (maby not them but others in this great country).


There are those in power who still believe that 'other people' do not belong in a position that would allow them to gain a position of power and influence. The Black community has been held back through welfare, the availability of drugs, and the dumbing down of the educational system. Its time to throw away the chains that bind you, cast off the fetters, THINK, LEARN, TAKE CHARGE OF YOUR LIVES, WAKE UP!!!


Change the system by becoming the system.


Yea and the thing that pisses me off is that there is monies for that to change. Worse yet, the children and adults in really poverty stricken areas like cambodia, Nicoragua, Phillipeans. Children are dieing right now due to lack of food/water.



posted on Nov, 17 2006 @ 12:36 PM
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Now I thought that Tupacs father was dead. I cannot verify the validility of this but , it looks legit.

www.mutulushakur.com...



posted on Nov, 18 2006 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by groingrinder
I don't think that egomaniac gangsters should be role models for anybody. He was an entertainer and his shtick got him lots of money. That doesn't make him the Black Jesus or something that others should emulate.


i never took his "gangster-ism" like HH put it as my or anybody's idol, what i put as an idol was that he actually stood up and made those songs that actually had something that mattered in em, not alll the BS that they make these days. btw what does having money got to do with things?



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